Author Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans  (Read 165550 times)

Offline Cocomin

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #120 on: September 3, 2012, 10:23:50 pm »
You MIGHT argue and im not personally but playing devils etc etc, that they have made mistakes but the long term plan is what they want and are aiming for, sometimes to be successful you need to make mistakes.
Two years of mistakes ? I don't see any progress in 2 whole years except that we have a smaller squad on less wages

Offline Arcadian

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #121 on: September 3, 2012, 10:24:11 pm »
You MIGHT argue and im not personally but playing devils etc etc, that they have made mistakes but the long term plan is what they want and are aiming for, sometimes to be successful you need to make mistakes.

There have been some rather large mistakes though have there not?

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Offline The Playmaker

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #122 on: September 3, 2012, 10:24:13 pm »
Firstly, the original post was a superb read and many of the replies and responses have been excellent to read through.

I’m fully behind Brendan Rodgers and the team this season. We’ve not had a great start, but we can and will improve over the season. It’s going to be a difficult and long season, but the hope is that we will progress in our style of play and move forward. Providing that the signs are there, and providing that we’re getting results, then I suspect that Rodgers will be rewarded with patience from the fans at the very least.

We’ve already played two teams that finished in the top three last season and we’re adjusting to a new system and style of play. We’ve also seen our goalkeeper and our defence make some strange blunders. Hopefully they will up their games and improve as the season progresses. We can’t be making such silly mistakes. There will be ups and downs throughout this season and I don’t expect us to finish in the top four either. It will be a miracle for us now. We’ve not really improved our attacking options enough to be a major threat. But I guess we’ll see.

We do need another striker to come in but it’s about finding that man and most importantly, acquiring him. We left it far too late again this summer to address the issue. In the end, what’s happened has happened and we need to move on and learn from it. The window is shut now and we can’t do much about it. It’s far easier to moan about it but Rodgers will have to work with what he has. He can’t be too happy about being let down on the last day and our squad isn’t full of depth and quality as such. You only have to glance at the bench to see that. We’re lacking that quality and depth which could cost us a few positions over the course of the season.

It might be a chance for some of the younger players to have more minutes on the pitch. It isn’t ideal but we’re going to have to use our resources. We still need to protect the youth prospects and that includes Sterling who has been pretty impressive for us so far. But patience really is the key, especially with these younger players who might be seeing more minutes on the pitch.

My only hope is that we can dig deep until January and then look for that striker that we need. It’s a difficult market and a difficult time to be searching for players though. But we did land Luis Suárez in a January transfer window and we could do with someone like him again. In hindsight, Suárez was a pretty cheap acquisition on our behalf. I would put him in the same category as Fernando Torres. Just over twenty million pounds for a player like Luis Suárez or Torres, is great business.

I also think that our dealings over this summer have generally been good. The players that we brought in excite me and clearly fit in with what Rodgers is trying to build. I hope that Nuri Sahin will fall in love with the City and the club. If he performs well too, then that’s brilliant and we might stand a chance of landing him on a permanent deal. He’s a very talented player but Real Madrid often offloads talented players. Remember when Inter landed Wesley Sneijder from them?

The biggest disappointment would have been our failure to land in another striker for the first team though – given that we let Andy Carroll go out on loan. We struggled for goals last season and Suárez was really our main guy for not only scoring goals, but creating them too. To rely so much on him is not ideal because despite impressive goal tallies for Uruguay and Ajax, we’ve all seen that he can fluff easy chances and score seemingly impossible efforts.

Anyway, I’m not knocking Luis because he’s a fantastic player, but he’s not had much rest either for some time now. They say that professionals are never 100% in any given sport – but it would be fair to say that Luis looks fatigued at times and could do with a rest. Given that we’re also in the Europa League this season, it will put more of a strain on the players who have International duties to deal with. Last season we didn’t have the Europa League and we still struggled to get the results that we required.

There was no major surprise with any of the exits. I think FSG and even Rodgers were keen to offload these players and rebuild our team again, though the latter would have been certainly keen to see one or two more arrivals. Many of the players who left no longer offered us enough to keep them on the sort of wages that they were on. Some of them clearly wanted to move on elsewhere and in the end both parties wanted the same thing, which was great. I wish them well, but we’ve needed a change because we’ve stagnated in recent times. Some of those players were just not of the standard that we wanted or needed.

We can’t be signing players like Alberto Aquilani, Joe Cole or Andy Carroll and loaning them out! Yet, we’ve done just that. That’s a crazy way to do business and we as a club can’t afford to make such costly errors because it sets us back. Some clubs can afford to bring in a player for twenty million pounds and not see him work out, because they have the financial power to cover it. Manchester City might be able to get away with it but it hurts us far more.

Next summer will see further changes but hopefully on a smaller scale to this summer. I fully expect Joe Cole and Jamie Carragher to be gone, which will free up even more wages – which could be used on players that will offer us something in the here and now. I say here and now because I don’t want to sound disrespectful to Jamie Carragher. He has been a superb servant to our club but the time for change has come. The time for being sentimental is over.

The jury is still out on FSG and rightfully so. They’ve made some very good decisions but also, some pretty poor decisions as well. They still have many issues to resolve and we as fans should be wary of what their plans are and rightfully so. We cannot expect them to get everything right, but if the club isn’t being run properly from the very top then there’s a fat chance it will be run properly from the bottom.

People are quick to point to the managerial changes and that’s fair enough. After Rafael Benítez left in 2010, I wrote on another LFC forum that it would set a dangerous precedent. So far they’ve removed Roy Hodgson and Kenny Dalglish. In terms of Hodgson, I think that the majority, if not all, of our supporters would feel that Hodgson was given too much time. That would be the criticism of FSG.

But to be fair to FSG, they were new to the club and it wasn’t an easy decision to make given that we were lacking any real structure at the time. Some might argue that we’re still lacking structure. Kenny Dalglish was a temporary appointment in their eyes but because the team did so well under him, they had little choice but to make him permanent. They removed him during this summer following a frustrating league campaign.

I’m hopeful that they now have a clear vision of where they want to take this club. I hope that they will back Brendan Rodgers more in the future, because for me, he’s an interesting young manager who could take us forward if he has the right backing. If they cannot back him and provide him with the funds and resources to bring in two or three more players for the attack then he will struggle to push this club forward.

There will be knock on effects for everything. We have managed to keep certain players this summer and even give them new contracts – but failure to progress and move forward will make the key players question the direction that the club is going in. If they are performing well in an under-performing team, then the chances are is that another club will come in and take them away at some point.

I certainly don’t want to see us searching for a new manager within the next 12-18 months, unless results are absolutely dismal – but then again, it isn’t down to one man and Rodgers has a mammoth of a job on his hands. FSG needs to back the man that they hired and they need to back him well.

Offline Fordy

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #123 on: September 3, 2012, 10:24:40 pm »
You MIGHT argue and im not personally but playing devils etc etc, that they have made mistakes but the long term plan is what they want and are aiming for, sometimes to be successful you need to make mistakes.

Sorry what's this long term plan?

Oh and does it include new stadium?

Offline redmen77

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #124 on: September 3, 2012, 10:25:02 pm »
I think that this is a fantastic discussion where peoples view sways you this way and that. Personally I believe that the lack of an experienced Football CEO whilst a factor of some of their mistakes, many people - experienced football people were party to last seasons spending and no doubt the owners were sold on the idea that these experienced PL players would bring about CL football at the first attempt and the riches that brings with it.

To compound last seasons mistakes with a level of what can only be described as neglect and incompetence is quite unforgivable when looked at in simple isolation. Those involved need to critically ask themselves why they allowed a key position be weakened and why they did not have a clear internal agreement on the criteria set to get a replacement in.

Getting to the final day and failing so badly didn't just leave the squad extremely thin, the ramifications in terms of the overall feel about the place, the confidence of the team, the mood of the fans and the dreadfully defeatist atmosphere that was so apparent after the first goal that clearly transfers to the players. The mood feels like we are now back to the point of the final days of H&G when Hodgson was in charge. The only shining light this time is we have a manager who talks a good game and seems to have a real passion and desire to play the right way and has the support of those that matter.

Making todays statement is a start for FSG but they need to consider the points they made very carefully. If we are to get to January without any other strikers then so be it but they need to act fast in January and expect to pay over the odds (because everyone will know our desperation has left them exposed) and potentially make do with a short term purchase to fill the gaps they have created.

The manager and the team needs our support now to be at its ferocious best, backs against the wall and coming out fighting. We are Liverpool after all. Its time for us all to make up for the shortcomings of others by standing tall as one and to coin a phrase from the great man "make the team (people) proud".

Offline Fordy

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #125 on: September 3, 2012, 10:33:22 pm »
.
I’m fully behind Brendan Rodgers and the team this season. We’ve not had a great start, but we can and will improve over the season. It’s going to be a difficult and long season, but the hope is that we will progress in our style of play and move forward. Providing that the signs are there, and providing that we’re getting results, then I suspect that Rodgers will be rewarded with patience from the fans at the very least.

If he keeps playing Suarez as 9, Borini on the right and use Morgan on the right then BR stands no chance.

Of course we will improve but is a given but if had to put money on then I would put money on that we will finish worse than 8th.

Why you backing Rodgers - Just? Thing is Rodgers needs to prove himself like Hodgson had too.

To say I back him isn't good enough. I believe in him and feel he will come good but he was very, navie in the transfer market and is rushing this change for fancy passing football.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #126 on: September 3, 2012, 10:35:27 pm »
Sorry what's this long term plan?

Oh and does it include new stadium?

To live within our means, to be smart and to address the stadium issue and there is evidence of all of that happening right now.
We might not agree with the way they have gone about it thus far, I certainly dont, but its the way they want to do things. 7Its either that or a sugar daddy buys us.
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Offline rednich85

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #127 on: September 3, 2012, 10:35:43 pm »
If he keeps playing Suarez as 9, Borini on the right and use Morgan on the right then BR stands no chance.

Two players playing as right sided forwards would confuse the opposition for a while
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #128 on: September 3, 2012, 10:36:17 pm »
There have been some rather large mistakes though have there not?



Agreed. Just playing devils advocate mate. Trying to be as open minded as I can until all the facts are there.
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Offline Asam

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #129 on: September 3, 2012, 10:37:00 pm »

Our business this summer was better than last

Whereas I don't think it was right for FSG potentially blocking a move for Dempsey if the manager wanted him I understand the reasons, we didn't want to set a bad precedent so whilst we lost a battle we will hopefully go on to win the war.

We are giving youngsters opportunities- I doubt Sterling / Morgan would have seen the same extent of action under Kenny or Roy

Our budget is being used better than for a long time

The club is starting to realise it's commercial potential which will put us in good stead for the long term

Overall I'm positive about FSG, it may take another year before we have everything nailed, we are getting there but some things need to improve:

- I would like to see a top class negotiator/administrator to come in, someone with a footballing pedigree
- All the financial decisions should be in the hands of people with footballing knowledge, with the manager having the final say
- The owners do have a right to expect the manager to buy players that fit a certain profile if it's in the best long term interests of the club
- The focus should always be on what will enable us to win and compete, not to just balance the books without taking risk






Offline montysmum

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #130 on: September 3, 2012, 10:38:41 pm »
I am not anti or pro FSG but they have to their credit pumped in around £150 Million  gross player investment, but you not sure about them so far, but what have you seen about BR to believe in him so much ?  it cant be the results surely ? is it the pholosophy , did LFC have have no philosophy for the last 120 years  that won 60+ trophies ?

I am not pro BR or Anti BR, but I think a liverpool manager especially 1 with no track record at big clubs or sustained period of success should focus purely on results first and ideologies second after proving themselves, rafa did that, kenny did that after hodge, and all other top coaches do it.

BR in my opinion will not see the season through and to be honest mate we are all tired of transitions, and excuses , as it was only 3 years ago we were favourites for the PL and joint second favourites for the CL, evolution was needed not revolution, he was not the right coach and thats a fenway error not his fault, but once in he should have done the basics first , which was whats good from previoulsy and last season and then evolve from that point while building blocks as you gain results.
Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas tried changing to quickly did not succeed, and same situation here, Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas was about players , BR is about philosophy, well we already have 1 pass and move is the liverpool groove, no need to be swansea , we are not swansea, he should focus on results rather than try to be shankly, we dont need shankly we need a competent coach that can win matches !!

A lot of sense in this post.

Some harp on about the Swansea pass and move style as if they have invented it.  It's bloody nonsense!  Believe it or not some of the football we played last season was pretty damned good pass and move style footy.  What we didnt do was put the damned ball in the net!

Brendan Rodgers has been brought in and feted like some bloody Messiah that we have been looking for for years - based on what?

The example of Villas-Boas is a good one.  He went to Chelsea full of big ideas of instilling a particular style of football into the team and failed miserably.  They slid down the table, had poor results but there didnt seem to be any 'plan B' to stop the rot.  In the end of course he lost his job.  Same club, same players, different tactics and Manager and they go on to do pretty damned well.

Thanks to a cock up of a transfer season, where someone made the stupid decision to let all of our strikers leave, we have a pitifully thin squad and little in the way of firepower.  So, what is Rogers going to do, what is his plan B if the players he has can't get results playing the Swansea way?

Last season getting to 2 Cup finals, winning one, getting into Europe and finishing 8th apparently wasn't good enough for JWH and his cohorts.  Now, all the open letters in the world doesn't cover the fact that our administration is piss poor, our off pitch decision making ludicrously amateurish and our relatively inexperienced manager has been left with a huge task on his hands because of it.

The fact that JWH has felt it necessary to make such a public statement shows just how much heat has been aimed at them, and rightly so.  We have nothing like a proper Board structure to run the club and seem to be reliant on Ayre, who for all his expertise at negotiating commercial things, is not tested or experienced in dealing with player negotiation.

JWH's open letter will mean nothing except yet more empty words unless we get people in to run the club effectively and I do not mean yet more TransAtlantic appointments.

They have had 2 yrs to get the club sorted and failed miserably, and it does not bode well for the future of the Club. 
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Offline GBF

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #131 on: September 3, 2012, 10:39:10 pm »
Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it



typical from the media to use only a portion of the information to fit their agenda.  West Ham are paying his wages and is guaranteeing him games which is badly needs and wont get at LFC
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Offline jordyball10

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #132 on: September 3, 2012, 10:39:28 pm »
This still does not help the fact if we try and make a change how can we? We do not have any options what so ever!! John Henry can write as many letters as he wants but it does not help us one bit!! Shocking takeover so far!

Offline TALBERT

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #133 on: September 3, 2012, 10:39:43 pm »
If we are going long term

Then we should sell Agger in January

His resale value is at it's highest and if Barca and City both want him we can get an inflated price

Maybe look into doing the same with Skrtel

The value of these players are high, long term suggests we sell and reinvest in young talented players

But what about Wilson? This gamble has not payed off
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Offline RK7

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #134 on: September 3, 2012, 10:42:17 pm »
I am all in favour of long term planning, building something that lasts and means we can eventually compete without over spending, this is the model of most clubs to be fair, it is not something revolutionary.

Most of those clubs do not have the global brand name that even comes close to Liverpool FC, it is important our great name is maintained so that we have that advantage on our rivals.
It is my view that we can find some common ground between smart investment right now on top of spending what we generate, without compromising the long term financial health of the club.
We are not a club starting from nothing, we have the resources to fast track this vision or at least give it a kick start, 2 or 3 additions to the first team now could see has compete with our rivals and at the same time build towards our main long term aim.

I fear that if we don't we could find ourselves falling further behind year on year and we will lose our top players year on year. We will end up taking 2 steps forward each year and 3 back, a mirror of what Arsenal are. They are always 2 or 3 players away, that is how we are now and probably how it will be 5 years from now.

But to be clear I am willing to be patient and urge everyone to be so, especially with Brendan Rodgers who I believe we are very lucky to have here but I do think a little more should have been done to help him.

Offline the 92A

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #135 on: September 3, 2012, 10:42:21 pm »
I can buy the restructuring of the wage bill and I do think FSG are trying to implement their plan A, building a successful team, but that doesn't mean that plan B, flipping us, might not kick in at some point, I'm sure that faced with the accounts they will have considered Plan B after purchase. But I do think they still want to build a successful club.

My problem with them is that they came in and told us that they were sharp operators who were all moneyballed up and were going to find all sorts of competitive advantages and the reality has been very different. They appointed Comolli, who raised massive eyebrows amongst anyone with  any knowledge of football and allowed him to negotiate deals that any average football fan could see were massively concerning. Never mind applying Billy Bean principals, I bet Fat Scouser with his market experience could  have saved us tens of millions, when the likes of Mike Ashley and his cohorts are taking the piss, you've fucked up badly.

The handling of  the Suarez episode and Dalglish's exit don't look  like the work of smooth operators. So they have been responsible for more wasted money. Nothing costs a football club more than managerial change both in hard cash and fallout, especially at what is traditionally a managers club.

Then we have the appointment of Rodgers and the ditching  of the structure that seemed to be a straight lift from the chapter on Lyon in socceromics,  I'm personally pleased with the appointment and ditching the structure but it's hardly  implementing a structured plan.
It's time for them to start the dialouge with the fans they promised, because up to know the transparency seems to apply best to our transfer policy. We've been very transparent, telling everyone and his dog Carroll etc aren't part of our plans then wondering why we are constantly on the back foot in transfer negotiations. never mind Moneyball I'd be pleased if the two bit chancers of the football world weren't  constantly taking the piss.
 
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Offline bigbear

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #136 on: September 3, 2012, 10:42:49 pm »
If we are going long term

Then we should sell Agger in January

His resale value is at it's highest and if Barca and City both want him we can get an inflated price

Maybe look into doing the same with Skrtel

The value of these players are high, long term suggests we sell and reinvest in young talented players

But what about Wilson? This gamble has not payed off
We should have already sold him. Unless City suffer an injury or are under pressure, they will never offer as much as they would have last week. Selling to Barca is losing 10m quid on him.

Offline Trada

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #137 on: September 3, 2012, 10:45:28 pm »
'We will never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages,' says John W Henry

So who is advising them if a player is worth the money or not because they won't know.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #138 on: September 3, 2012, 10:47:23 pm »
A lot of sense in this post.

Some harp on about the Swansea pass and move style as if they have invented it.  It's bloody nonsense!  Believe it or not some of the football we played last season was pretty damned good pass and move style footy.  What we didnt do was put the damned ball in the net!

Brendan Rodgers has been brought in and feted like some bloody Messiah that we have been looking for for years - based on what?

The example of Villas-Boas is a good one.  He went to Chelsea full of big ideas of instilling a particular style of football into the team and failed miserably.  They slid down the table, had poor results but there didnt seem to be any 'plan B' to stop the rot.  In the end of course he lost his job.  Same club, same players, different tactics and Manager and they go on to do pretty damned well.

Thanks to a cock up of a transfer season, where someone made the stupid decision to let all of our strikers leave, we have a pitifully thin squad and little in the way of firepower.  So, what is Rogers going to do, what is his plan B if the players he has can't get results playing the Swansea way?

Last season getting to 2 Cup finals, winning one, getting into Europe and finishing 8th apparently wasn't good enough for JWH and his cohorts.  Now, all the open letters in the world doesn't cover the fact that our administration is piss poor, our off pitch decision making ludicrously amateurish and our relatively inexperienced manager has been left with a huge task on his hands because of it.

The fact that JWH has felt it necessary to make such a public statement shows just how much heat has been aimed at them, and rightly so.  We have nothing like a proper Board structure to run the club and seem to be reliant on Ayre, who for all his expertise at negotiating commercial things, is not tested or experienced in dealing with player negotiation.

JWH's open letter will mean nothing except yet more empty words unless we get people in to run the club effectively and I do not mean yet more TransAtlantic appointments.

They have had 2 yrs to get the club sorted and failed miserably, and it does not bode well for the future of the Club. 

With the greatest respect to you and your opinion, you're clearly not happy at how they've dealt with Kenny and you seem quite bitter about it. You seem to have contempt for Brendan Rodgers.

Its not his fault what went before.
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #139 on: September 3, 2012, 10:47:47 pm »
'We will never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages,' says John W Henry

So who is advising them if a player is worth the money or not because they won't know.


Thats the concern isnt it. I hope to fuck they appoint someone with footballing knowledge and very soon.
I suspect they will, they certainly should.
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #140 on: September 3, 2012, 10:48:49 pm »
Top OP. I was actually just thinking (pessimistic as usual) that in terms of rebuilding under rodgers we might have to lose even more quality before we truly build again.   


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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #141 on: September 3, 2012, 10:49:30 pm »
We should have already sold him. Unless City suffer an injury or are under pressure, they will never offer as much as they would have last week. Selling to Barca is losing 10m quid on him.

This is what I don't get about FSG

Short term is offering Agger a new higher contract

Long term is selling Agger for a huge fee and reinvesting the money on young future players at low wages and waiting for them to come good....

Lucas has come good, as I reckon Coates, Kelly and Sterling will

Wilson hasn't nor has Pacheco

Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Downing, Cole all need to go
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #142 on: September 3, 2012, 10:49:46 pm »
48 hours and an open letter doesn't change a whole lot for me. Football is a business, wages, transfer fees, sugar daddies etc etc, it can all get spoken about but there has been a huge fundamental mistake made in terms of a key position being left understrength. There is nothing to say to change or rationalise that.

As I said in the previous thread. I'm not even fully slating the owners here, but they need to open their eyes on some things. I'm not saying we should have gone out and spent £25-30 million on a striker, I'm not saying wages didn't need cutting, I am saying that it seems somewhere communication with BR broke down, and it's left us in a crap position. That can't happen again.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #143 on: September 3, 2012, 10:50:13 pm »
To clarify, I don't believe everything is rosy either and have expressed that in other smaller posts, but the long post was just an explosion of a few things I was thinking about while reading that long thread. There are improvements to be made, and mistakes to be rectified and of course mistakes to be learned from, especially regarding the lack of a proper CEO, but I just feel we need a perspective. I'm not an FSG defender either, but we should be fair and reasoned in our analysis and not completely panicky, and over the top, as I don't think it helps.
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Offline El_Pelusa_10

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #144 on: September 3, 2012, 10:51:55 pm »
If we are going long term

Then we should sell Agger in January

His resale value is at it's highest and if Barca and City both want him we can get an inflated price

Maybe look into doing the same with Skrtel

The value of these players are high, long term suggests we sell and reinvest in young talented players

But what about Wilson? This gamble has not payed off

Sell Agger and Skrtel? You seriously have to be fishing here.............

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #145 on: September 3, 2012, 10:52:18 pm »

Then we have the appointment of Rodgers and the ditching  of the structure that seemed to be a straight lift from the chapter on Lyon in socceromics,  I'm personally pleased with the appointment and ditching the structure but it's hardly  implementing a structured plan.


Great post 92A.  I'm not sure I understand the statement above, can you add more detail regarding the 'Lyon Soccernomics' comment please.

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #146 on: September 3, 2012, 10:53:47 pm »
Two years of mistakes ? I don't see any progress in 2 whole years except that we have a smaller squad on less wages

2 years ago we were managed by Roy Hodgeson with Paul konchesky, joe cole and Christian poulsen as our marquee signings. Purslow was still here.

We have most definitely made progress.  Maybe if the money spent on Carroll, Downing & Henderson had been spent more wisely we may not now be looking at 3 managers in 3 years and we could now be strengthening an already improved squad.

Now I'm not trying to place the blame at Kenny's or Comolli's feet here. I am however trying to say that the shit being thrown directly and entirely at the owners at the moment is over the top.

I thought JWH's letter was pretty fair. The owners have definitely made mistakes but they have also done good. They have invested, they have increased revenues. I do personally believe that they have a direction and a plan. A belief that was reinforced with the appointment of Rodgers when the difficult decision to part company with a club legend was made. A decision that I think still adds to a lot of the ill feeling towards the owners on here.

Ultimately, I will support the club and therefore the owners because at the end of the day that's what we should be doing as supporters.

God forbid it could be a damn sight fucking worse.

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Offline Saul Goodman

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #147 on: September 3, 2012, 10:54:28 pm »
Barret tonight

Quote
John W. Henry, Liverpool’s principal owner, has attempted to quell anger over the club’s transfer strategy caused by the failure to sign Clint Dempsey by writing an open letter to the fans.

In the letter, which was published on the official Liverpool website yesterday, Henry expressed disappointment that Brendan Rodgers was not able to strengthen his attacking options on transfer deadline day, but insisted that he was not interested in “expensive, short-term fixes”.

The American businessman also detailed the need for Liverpool to recover from the damage done by “previous regimes” and emphasised that the transfer policy that is now in place is designed to provide value for money and to reduce the risk of damage being done to the club’s financial wellbeing.

But there were a number of issues surrounding the decision to allow Andy Carroll to join West Ham United on loan until the end of the season and subsequent failure to recruit Dempsey that Henry failed to address.
Here, The Times examines what the calamitous end to the transfer window tells us about the state of Liverpool and relationships within the club.

Why was Fenway Sports Group (FSG) not prepared to back the judgment of Rodgers on Dempsey?

In one sense, it was. Despite informing Rodgers that Dempsey, 29, was not a suitable target because of his age, it still sanctioned a swap deal that would have resulted in Jordan Henderson joining Fulham in exchange. The problem occurred when Henderson refused the move and the lengths to which FSG would back its manager’s judgment was then put to the test.

In Henry’s opinion, at a cost of about £6 million, Dempsey would have represented the kind of “expensive, short-term fix” that he no longer wants Liverpool to pursue. He did approve an offer of up to £4 million, but it was one that Fulham, who had been so angered by Liverpool’s public interest in the forward that they reported them to the FA for an alleged illegal approach, were never going to accept.

The proposed move was doomed to fail simply because the Liverpool owner did not agree with Rodgers’s valuation of a player that he had identified as a key target.

Who has the final say on transfers at Liverpool?

When Rodgers took the Liverpool manager’s job on the condition that he would not be subordinate to a director of football, it seemed that he had won a significant power battle that would give him the final say on transfers.

Appearances, though, can be deceptive and Liverpool have instead implemented a collegiate director of football model that spreads responsibility through a group of player recruitment specialists and football analysts who work with the manager in identifying targets. David Fallows and Barry Hunter, two senior scouts, have been recruited from Manchester City, although both are on gardening leave, while Michael Edwards, the club’s head of analytics, is becoming an increasingly influential figure at Anfield. The concept is that decisions over players will be made by the group as a whole, rather than by any individual, but the in-built checks and balances can slow transfers down, as was the case with the pursuit of Joe Allen, which was held up by an internal dispute over whether the midfielder was worth the £15 million valuation that Swansea City had placed upon him.

Is Ian Ayre’s position as managing director now under threat?

As the senior official handed the responsibility for negotiating the proposed transfer of Dempsey, it has been widely assumed that Ayre would carry the can for the collapse of the deal. The reality, though, was that the Liverpool-born executive had been handed an impossible task because he did not have the resources necessary to coax Fulham into doing business. All he could do was make an offer that was in keeping with the restrictions that were imposed on by him by his employers and then concede defeat when the bid was turned down.

Suggestions that Rodgers was furious with Ayre as a result are wide of the mark. The pair have a strong working relationship that has not been damaged by the Dempsey shambles. There are no indications that FSG is ready to axe the 49-year-old.

Where does this leave Rodgers’s relationship with FSG?

Strained, but not beyond repair. Rodgers feels that his judgment on Dempsey should have been backed and he is particularly disappointed that he has been left so short of attacking options. For its part, FSG is dissatisfied at what it feels was an attempt by the manager to force it into signing a player whom it had insisted did not fit in with transfer strategy. Henry’s letter was an attempt to put the situation behind them and move on.

Offline bigbear

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #148 on: September 3, 2012, 10:54:29 pm »
This is what I don't get about FSG

Short term is offering Agger a new higher contract

Long term is selling Agger for a huge fee and reinvesting the money on young future players at low wages and waiting for them to come good....

Lucas has come good, as I reckon Coates, Kelly and Sterling will

Wilson hasn't nor has Pacheco

Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Downing, Cole all need to go
That's exactly my point.

We are still in a half way house. With what we did last week, there is nobody who believes we can get back into the top 4 this season and the big boys money so why are we not making a real medium to long term strategy and selling someone like Agger and Johnson for 40m quid and re-investing in younger players now. Coates and Kelly can step in plus whoeevr we choose to sign.

As it stands we will not be competitive for 2-3 years and by then these players will be 30 and worth much less, notwithstanding they are injury hit.

We need really clear thinking one way or the other and we haven't had it since Benitez first joined the club.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #150 on: September 3, 2012, 10:57:52 pm »
Sell Agger and Skrtel? You seriously have to be fishing here.............

No I'm not

I would sell both

There value is very very high...

We are a long term club....

Take the money for selling these two say 30m and spend that on 4-6 young players on 20k-30k a week

Wait a couple of years and maybe half of them will make it and be worth 15-20m
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #151 on: September 3, 2012, 10:58:43 pm »
Barret tonight


Not great reading that, and pretty much in line with what I expected the situation to be.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #152 on: September 3, 2012, 11:00:13 pm »
Thats the concern isnt it. I hope to fuck they appoint someone with footballing knowledge and very soon.
I suspect they will, they certainly should.

And they are not always right I remember when we got Torres they were all saying we paid to much for him and he wasn't a goal scorer.

So if FSG took their advise they won't have paid they the money for him.
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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #153 on: September 3, 2012, 11:02:38 pm »
Barret tonight

In Henry’s opinion, at a cost of about £6 million, Dempsey would have represented the kind of “expensive, short-term fix” that he no longer wants

Why is the owner making footballing decisions?
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #154 on: September 3, 2012, 11:02:55 pm »
Barret tonight


I still can't believe we offered Henderson up for Dempsey. Jesus.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #155 on: September 3, 2012, 11:03:30 pm »
if you sell youre best players too early, youre on a hiding to nothing....terrible idea
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #156 on: September 3, 2012, 11:03:49 pm »
Why is the owner making footballing decisions?
It's not like it's an extra 10m quid. It's 1-2m to back your manager.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #157 on: September 3, 2012, 11:04:17 pm »
I still can't believe we offered Henderson up for Dempsey. Jesus.
I know - 6m ?

Offline TALBERT

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #158 on: September 3, 2012, 11:05:50 pm »

As it stands we will not be competitive for 2-3 years and by then these players will be 30 and worth much less, notwithstanding they are injury hit.

We need really clear thinking one way or the other and we haven't had it since Benitez first joined the club.

Agger will be worth fuck all if injury hits again and as soon as he hits 30 your right in saying

What did City offer 20m we were mad not to accept if true.
 
FSG need a plan and need to stick to it

Spunking 80m on Downing, Henderson and Carroll was not moneyball far from it was stupidity

The Downing transfer even more stupid considering his age....

If we are going down the long term fucking stick to it....

But expect some players to loose patience because I can't see Suarez staying long term being mid table with a load of kids waiting for Barca to call
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Offline peachybum

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #159 on: September 3, 2012, 11:05:50 pm »
Barret tonight

Hopefully lessons have been learned and things will improve when Fallows actually starts.
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