Author Topic: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City  (Read 17512 times)

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« on: August 26, 2012, 05:56:23 pm »
so This Round Table would've been all about the slow dawning of Rodgers' ideas on the game and how the leaving out of Jamie Carragher in favour of 21 yr old Sebastian Coates was the biggest statement he made when all said and done.
But when all said and done, we're talking about Skrtel's best moment / Skrtel's worst moment. Towering header and great goal, and then that back pass.

Ho hum. But if, if we leave that aside, we had a great and illuminating game. Passing, pressing and passion all the way through, there will be a few tired legs in the changing room tonight.

Allen was terrific, worthy of man of the match and Gerrard appeared to be freed up by him. The loss of Lucas? Well we'll never know what he might have done, suffice to say their two goals should'nt have been given away like that. The real frustration will only tell at the other end of the season when points = places but til then, lets look at the positive.
Sterling - how easy it would be to say he looks settled already, but he does. Coates didn't do anything terrible and aquitted himself well, as did the majority of the team. Just Martin's madness...


Questions: Borini and Suarez. How do you see them working together?
Carroll. Is there a place for him?
Finally how did the first home game for Brendan go for you?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 06:04:48 pm by hinesy »
Yep.

Offline BazC

  • ...is as good as Van Basten
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,562
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2012, 06:24:43 pm »
Listening to Joe Allen after watching him play football is rather weird. You watch him boss a midfield for 90 minutes and expect a Spanish accent to encapsulate his words in his post match interview. But it's Welsh. Bloody Welsh!

Seriously though, it was a disappointing result, but there were way too many positives today in that performance for it to be a problem. Allen was a big positive, but Sterling was as good and in my opinion Shelvey and Coates were right up there as well.

Sterling especially, how refreshing is it to see him play football? We're used to wet fish performances, lacking confidence and lacking quality from that side of the pitch. Rodgers throws him in to start against the League Champions and the kid (6 years younger than me!) has a fantastic game. Not only didn't he look out of place, he stood out. I actually think he showed a lot more in that 90 minutes than Downing's done in his whole Liverpool career to be honest.

Shelvey got sidelined somewhat when Henderson came in. It looks like under Rodgers, that's flipped around. Shelvey came on today and we didn't actually miss Lucas (of course, that had a lot to do with just how class Allen was). We have Sahin now, and you'd expect him to come in and play regularly, so it'll be interesting to see what happens with Shelvey this season.

There's still a whirlwind of change and disappointing results like that to come. Both goals were mistakes, and Skrtel's was a result of a desire to keep the ball instead of hitting it long. It resulted in a goal being given away, but in the long term, you'd expect that attitude of playing football to pay off.

I'm looking forward to watching this team evolve this season. Allen at the heart of midfield with Lucas, Suarez up front, Sterling out wide and I'd like to see a lot more of Borini (who had a fairly anonymous game today).

It was good to see the manager pick so many young and inexperienced players today. It nearly paid off, and actually, it should have. Coates in defence ahead of Carra was something a lot of people were calling for last season when Kenny had that choice to make. Maybe he wasn't ready then, but it looks like he's good enough to step in when needed to me.

I'm not going to get too carried away- our big problem last season was lack of goals. In the last couple of games not a lot's been shown that would point to improvement in that area. Both of our goals came from set pieces. And they were 2 very good set pieces of course, but we're still rather toothless when it comes to scoring goals from open play. I just hope we don't rue the fact we didn't sign a proper striker this summer in the coming months.


 
“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,386
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2012, 06:37:02 pm »
First up, the backpass for the second goal doesn't happen if Skrtel is playing on his preferred right-hand side. He didn't want to play the percentage ball into the channel with his left foot and for that he should be applauded - he was looking to keep the ball. If it's a left-footed player in that position, or Skrtel in a mirrored position on the other side of the field, the natural body position when playing the back pass would mean he'd be automatically facing Tevez, so another decision would be made.

The first goal we conceded was shoddy - City found too much space in a dangerous area down our left, then Reina had his one-a-season brainfart and didn't get anything on a reachable cross inside the six yard box. It happens occasionally.

The positive thing for me is that Tevez' clipped cross onto the post aside, City really didn't create anything. We just didn't let them.

We controlled the game by winning the ball high up the pitch, and even in the last 5 or 10 minutes we were looking to turn over the ball in positions that would hurt City. It worked, too - City are normally great at playing out through Toure and Nasri, but I'm not sure anyone even clocked Nasri was playing until he went off.

The midfield today looked, if I'm honest, a little bit special. It was rock solid, even despite the early loss of Lucas. Joe Allen had a game as good as any Paul Scholes will have this season, and that's exactly why we bought him. We could really be looking at a bargain in the not-too-distant future.

Shelvey had a very, very good game. He seems to be learning when to press and when to drop, and loves finding space in the attacking third. Had his left-footed effort towards the end gone in the top corner, I honestly think today would've been the making of him. As it is, we should be happy with how he's progressing. This boy should absolutely not be loaned out, even if Spearing and Adam stay.

I won't say anything about Raheem Sterling other than he's a very, very talented young man with the entire football world at his feet. He could be absolutely anything he wants to be. He terrorised Kolo Toure at times in the first half, and City resorted to snide clips in the end in order to keep him quiet. He tired in the second half, but that's to be expected - to put it into perspective, he is half Jamie Carragher's age. If we manage him correctly over the coming years, he could (and should) become a wonderful player.

I think today saw the best and worst of Luis Suarez. He was very poor in the first half - I don't think the no9 position suits him. He needs to have the ball at his feet more often. If we're going to play a proper, chalk-on-your-boots winger on one side, then I'd play Suarez in a free role off the other side. He needs to be isolating defenders 1v1 and making them turn, which is tough to do whan you have two 6'3" centre halfs trying to kick lumps out of you the whole game. That said... that free kick. You couldn't have put an X there in a spot the ball competition. Who knew he could do that?

His workrate, and off-the-ball intelligence is going to be a massive part of this system, but I still feel he needs to be floating around behind a no9 who just naturally scores goals.

All in all, it was a very positive display. The defence - two brainfarts aside - was excellent. Kelly and Coates looked like they'd been playing together for years, although Coates does need to speed up in possession.

As we move forward this season, if we can keep up and even improve on that level of performance, I think we'll be laughing.

It's a long way to Tipperary, but our big red Liverbird is heading in the right direction.
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline archie

  • bald. Our man in Moscow. And a bloody decent chap. MIA, last seen babysitting.
  • Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,547
  • you're due a duechers
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2012, 06:56:15 pm »
Well, just watched Rodgers interview there and when talking about Skrtel's mistake he mentioned learning from it as a team.
How the players infront of him needed to give him better options.
Easy to say he should clear his lines and if we are to continue to evolve we need to be brave and learn from any errors.

I was really impressed with Shelvey today (compared with Thursday) mature in his passing and tackling. Suppose benfitting from the experience around him, but I felt he really stepped up.
Love the way all of our team hassled and pressed to win the ball and we had some really good spells when we didn't let city breathe.
Credit to the front men who really worked hard on this.

Stevie was great and put in a really mature performance. He really used the ball well and kept it moving.
Suppose what I mean  by 'mature' is that when presented with the opportunity of the odd half chance at the edge of the box (esp 2nd half) he looked to use it wisely instead of looking for the headlines. (that reads much more harshly than I mean it to)

In fact the only time any player had that rush of blood was Allen right at the death.

Borini worked hard but I thought he had a forgettable first half were he wasn't really up to the pace of the game (unlucky with the near post chance thought) .Think there is potential with him and Suarez but may take time.

Is there a place for Carroll, long term I would say no but he showed that he had something to offer in his brief appearance.
We'll know soon enough.

Sterling is great but he must be managed carefully. So be prepared for plenty of pre-match threads along the lines of "FFS Rodgers no Sterling, disgrace!" etc

Concerns for me are that Pepe flapped a bit at a few crosses. Looking again at the goal it seemed Skrtel might have had a touch but can't be sure.
Also, needless booking for Suarez. 2 in 2 games. He needs to wind it in.

Hopefully a decent performance, a few goals and a clean sheet during the week to give us confidence for the weekend.

Rodgers post match also noted "The star of this team will be the team". I liked that.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,466
  • The first five yards........
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2012, 07:42:37 pm »
Well that was Fortress Anfield until one of its most tenacious defenders accidentally let the draw-bridge down for the enemy to creep inside. There won't be a single Liverpool fan in the universe who feels content with just one point tonight. But it's a measure of how well we played that most of us would have probably settled for a point before the game began, with only the out-and-out believers continuing to expect three points when Lucas hobbled off after 3 minutes.

There are so many talking points - from a noisy and atmospheric Anfield living up to what Sahin had been told to expect from Xabi Alonso, to Suarez actually getting a couple of free kicks off the referee. But the two main ones will be Joe Allen's nerveless performance and Raheem Sterling's one-man riot on the left wing.

Brendan has been telling his players to be brave and have courage on the ball. He set the tone himself with two excellent team selections. Coates came in for Jamie and Sterling took Downing's place on the flank. Both decisions were utterly vindicated. Coates shackled Balotelli and was efficient and smooth in possession. Sterling was exciting and dangerous on the ball and quicksilver and nasty in getting it back when the team lost it. Our secret is out now. The nation will get the low-down on the boy on Match of the Day tonight and Arsenal will make special preparations to deal with him next week. What I like about him, apart from the fact that he makes me shout "skin him!" every time he gets the ball, is his temperament. Maybe he can still hear Rudolfo Borrell in his ear saying 'be calm' or something, but it's like he has ice in his veins. I thought he might lose his head in that frenzy. But he was unflappable. Brilliant show lad. Keep it up.

Joe Allen took the Man of the Match award though. I knew he was good. But this good? I didn't know that. Nor did you. The disguised pass to Suarez near the end of the first half was beautiful. His ability to receive the ball under the pressure - to demand it - is something that will buy us lots of possession and space this year. I also think we'll see more of his attacking ability against weaker teams than Man City.

Of course it can't have helped Allen that his partner-in-crime Lucas went off with a thigh strain after a single touch of the ball. Shelvey came on and started like a headless chicken, chasing the ball rather than following the man - and for a while Man City bossed things. But the bald one came good. Suddenly Tynecastle was a bad memory and Shelvey grew into the game to such an extent that he was Liverpool's main link man in the last half hour. His left foot shot near the close looked ambitious but it was truthfully struck that Hart was struggling. One day soon Shelvey will string two or three good consecutive performances together. Then Rodgers will have genuine selection problems. In the meantime what a wonderful thing that Shelvey and Henderson are in front of Spearing and Adam in the midfield pecking order.

I think Col is right about Suarez's performance. It looked like it just wasn't one of his days in the first '45. But through sheer endeavour he worked up a bit of form and in the second half started to harass and create. Anyone who can make Vincent Kompany look flustered is a good player. Kompany was flustered. The free kick was out of this world and from now on teams will take the precaution of sticking an extra man in the wall for Suarez. But Borini's little movement just prior to the strike was clever too. No surprise there. He is clever.

It's a pity we couldn't hang on. And, in truth, it might have gone either way in the last 10 minutes. David Silva was outstanding when he came on and got between the lines like he always does (unless Lucas has him in his sights). But let's be frank. We will play worse than that many times this season and go home with all 3 in the bag.

Love the red nets.

 

 

 
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Pheeny

  • Guest
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2012, 07:53:32 pm »
Can we have Niall Quinn in the commentary box for all our games.   

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2012, 08:28:07 pm »
I was genuinely 'butterflies in the stomach' excited when I saw the line up, albeit part of me had been convinced we'd see Downing behind Sterling with Johnson in his natural position, but when Lucas went off, that changed to a sinking feeling. They'd come prepared to battle for the midfield, with three at the back, and when Lucas went off, it was proof-of-the-pudding time. But as you've all said above, save for a few minutes' angst after Shelvey's introduction, we held sway and then some. We really did boss things in there for most of the game - no mean feat - and it was underlined with Mancini's subs. Nasri and Milner weren't getting a sniff.

You've all covered the game beautifully, so not much point repeating your points. Suffice to say that Rodgers' comments after the game fit with the footage of the players coming off the pitch at half time (Kelly, Skrtel and Johnson discussing the defensive set up for corners), and with the mental image I have of the players and coach correcting each other on Thursday night. They're learning their system and helping each other grow into it. To hear the manager back Skrtel after his mistake, then emphasise that the team is the star, only really underlines that he's consciously building that collective solidarity, and that reliance on the system. We'll improve from here because with that performance, they'll gain that crucial extra bit of belief they need. That final bit of certainty - maybe just that little absence of worry in their gut - that means they can rely on the system and on each other. They can trust.

When that happens, it'll become more habitual.

Borini and Suarez? I think some have their doubts about Borini, but his stature will grow, as will his reading of his team mates up top (and vice versa). A little more calm could have put in Suarez after his excellent interception, but he has the quality to make these things happen. For now the off-the-ball stuff will more than do I guess.

Carroll?
I'll leave that answer to Garstonite. ;D

I really think with a couple of good additions this week we could bother the CL slots. But only with good additions this week; otherwise we're a shade too thin.

Offline BabuYagu

  • It's Portuguese for 'BabyYoghurt'. The John Motson of RAWK. Or Barry Davies. Or Charley Boorman, even. Expertly silent fist-pumper. Needs to pay more attention. Repeatly analing goalkeepers.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,350
  • wakelet.com/@BabuYagu
    • Wakelet of the Articles I have written
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2012, 08:55:21 pm »
http://forum.rojadirecta.es/showthread.php?177674-FUTBOL-(English-Premier-League)-Liverpool-v-Manchester-City-26.08.12&s=8e4ee7278d03903e60a9c040e7945108

Download links for the full match if anybody would like to go through it all again before adding to the round table.

My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

Offline DutchRed

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,856
  • =
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2012, 10:49:58 pm »
Rodgers clearly does have an idea of what he wants. He told us that, playing his way, he'd aim to make an Anfield visit the opponent's longest 90' in their lives, by playing fluent, attacking football. The football today was diabolical in many ways.

It was a mixed performance. Some great attacking movement, but some defensive errors as well, they eventually ended up costing us the points. For me, key moments were after both City's goals. We've seen them doing a smash-and-grab act more than once, so it was great to see we reacted to their goals with verve, being right on their backs again. That way, the champions had a difficult outing. It's hardly a successful hunting ground for them, Anfield, and today a point was more than their football merited. Their defence was rocked by youthful enthusiasm from the team in Red. It's not been the longest ninety minutes in their life, but it was hardly comfortable.

The only disappointment is an apparent lack of bottle. It's easy to point at the defensive errors, but actually we could have scored more than twice. But it wouldn't go in. So, after a summer of change around Anfield, the home season started where the last one kicked off: with a draw. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

But, for how long? I haven't seen us play in all our games, but in the three ties I've seen us play, I've seen us play better each time. One or two addition to the attacking set-up would be welcome, but I think we can progress really far under Rodgers. It's gonna be a long yourney, but I feel we've got a good captain with us to make it.

Some individuals deserve specific praise. Coates held himself well. As did Shelvey. Sterling, on his debut, played well. The rosy-tinted spectacles of the Anfield faithful would like a more commanding superlative, but the kid can even be better. Outstanding performer however was Joe Allen. What a class act he wass.

It's important to be both patient and sensible. Last week, we weren't as bad as some suggested. This week, we're not suddenly magical. Rome wasn't built in one day, neither will Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool. Allen is not suddenly a top purchase, and he won't be a bad one if he makes a mistake next week. We could very well lose next week, but it wouldn't mean Rodgers is a shite manager. Have a little patience.

Lucas, get well soon!

Upwards and onwards. Next stop: Hearts on Thurday. Come on, you Redmen.

It's just sex and violence, melody and silence.

Offline Terry de Niro

  • Cellar dweller fella, ya know
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,419
  • Are you talkin' to me or chewin' a brick?
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2012, 11:29:38 pm »
I would have been happy with a draw before kick off, if I'm being honest. But disappointed at the end to have dropped the 2 points due to a lapse of concentration to an otherwise excellent performance from Skrtel.
Thought he and Coates were solid at the back.

Joe Allen was boss. Sterling is going to be World class, and what I loved about him most was the fact that his first touch was mostly excellent and also, City in the last few minutes were resorted to trying to stop him at all costs, but he was still there in the thick of it and never once hid.

Both of our goals were brilliant, so I'm going to take the positives rather than the others.

Can we have Niall Quinn in the commentary box for all our games.   
and so say all of us. He's always shown how much respect he has for us, and considering he once played for City, he seemed to be hoping for us to win.

Offline Azi

  • eckerslike
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,715
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2012, 11:38:37 pm »

Concerns for me are that Pepe flapped a bit at a few crosses. Looking again at the goal it seemed Skrtel might have had a touch but can't be sure.
Also, needless booking for Suarez. 2 in 2 games. He needs to wind it in.

Hopefully a decent performance, a few goals and a clean sheet during the week to give us confidence for the weekend.

Rodgers post match also noted "The star of this team will be the team". I liked that.

i don't  think i can say anything that's not been said but can i just defend Suarez in this instance, that yellow card was a joke all he was doing was protecting Sterling (OK maybe a bit loudly but that's what utd have done for years)  who was on the end of some "rougher" treatment from the city players, in reality it should have been the captain who defends his younger team-mates but too often he goes missing in these confrontations so im probably in the minority but i don't have a problem with one of our players getting a booking for defending one of their own, Now  had he got a booking for kicking the ball away or something menial then maybe but in this instance imo he was in the right

other thing i'd like to bring up was the skrtel back pass imo that was a mistake made due the fact he was playing on the wrong side of the park had it been agger and skrtel at the back the roles would have been reversed so its hard to say the sytem was at fault but overall i thought the team as a whole was a plus i said before the game at this stage in rodgers career its the performance rather than the final result that will be important

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2012, 12:21:33 am »
The other week on TAW they were talking about the Arsenal game being the first time you really saw how he wanted to set his team up. I think there were parallels here. We were without some key players, playing hosts to the champions, and were the better team.

I think in years to come though we'll look back at this match in the same way as we looked back at a couple of other games towards the start of Rafa's reign. Today reminded me of West Brom and Norwich at home early in that season, not in any way that the game played out, or the calibre of opposition, but in serving as an immediate demonstration of why one of the first things the manager did was to spend big on a 22 year old midfielder.

It's a huge stretch to say Allen is in the same class as Alonso, but today showed that like Xabi, he's immediately translated the managers ideas on to the pitch.

I thought there was a danger we read too much into the Gomel result at home. This was a poor opponent simply not able to deal with the quality of player on display. I remember similar with Rabotniki at home, a performance that gave hope that maybe we had a genuinely natural #10 (or old school Liverpool #7). For as well as we attacked, it lacked the pattern of today. Long balls into the channel was never going to be Rodgers ideal way of playing the game.

Joe Allen's immediately given us a shorter game in the middle of the park. Less looking for the quick through ball before the defence is set, far more passing around the corner. The best example was in the 10 minutes leading up to half time today, when after getting the goal we strangled the life out of them, with Joe - head on a fucking swivel - Allen seemingly involved every 2nd or third pass, a magnet for possession.
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline Mr Dilkington

  • would rather be too cold than too hot
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Never buy the Sun
    • www.level3football.com
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2012, 03:35:02 am »
That was great.

I was out all morning, and didn't get in long before the game started, so when I noticed Coates and Sterling in the 11 I was pretty pleased. What balls from Rodgers. It immediately reminded me of that wee Q&A session I did with Don, "Age was never an issue with Brendan. He played 18 year old Ross Jenkins in centre midfield every week." Hmm...

I think Juan is right in what he says about this being a game people will look back on and think 'Yeah, you could see back then the way things were going to be done.' The problem was that the opposition were the best team in the League. Whilst we did look to press the ball high up with the energy of Sterling, Suarez, and Borini - there was a definite acknowledgement of how good Man City were. For all the good football played, Allen, Shelvey, and Gerrard played very narrow and didn't allow Nasri or Milner any space in between the lines. That changed of course, when David Silva came on. But as Yorky said, there's no shame in that - because he's a class act (he's no Cazorla like), but he's not a bad wee player at all.

Joe Allen. It was an absolute pleasure to watch him go about his work today. The way he was taking the ball under pressure, and calmly turning his way out of trouble was a sign of the type of investment we've made with him. 15 million is a snip. I bet you he made a massive difference to Shelvey today. Must of been comforting for Jonjo to know that Allen was always there if need be. And if you give the ball to him, he aint losing it. Lucas marked Toure out of the game last year. This year it was Allen. Soon we're gonna have Sahin added into that - spoilt!

Shelvey was very good, and I think it proves that it would be unwise to take any definitive judgements from that Hearts game. Massive difference playing beside Gerrard and Allen in comparison to Spearing and Adam. It kinda felt like Shelvey felt he had to do something out of the ordinary against Hearts, but today he was playing with two guys who are vastly superior to him, and he didn't get above his station. He's so much better when he's just doing the simple things. That left footed strike that went inches over the bar was super technique.

Coates and Skrtel. First off, that was a bad mistake from Skrtel. We all know it... however it's just one of those things, and as Rodgers rightly pointed out - he wants things done that way. Apart from that... I thought Skrtel was imperious. His positioning in and around the 18 yard box was brilliant. How many times did Nasri or Milner see a cut back intercepted by Skrtel? He is really making rapid progress in all areas of his game. On the third minute there was a high ball that came down at him... he had loads of time to bring it down and pass it, but instead he kind of jabbed his right foot at it passed it straight to a Man City player. I think in a few months, that type of thing will be eradicated from his game. If we can get both Skrtel and Agger stepping out with the ball, then we can be anything we want to be. Coates was brilliant too, and he should take a lot of heart from today. First of all because he got the nod over Carra, and secondly because he proved Rodgers right by doing so. Bar that bit of ponderous play when Balotelli nipped in and picked his pocket, he should be proud as punch. Particularly given he hasn't played much football.

Delighted for Sterling. I think we all are of course. It's patently obvious we've a talent on our hands, and Sterling is very fortunate he has someone like Rodgers who has been willing to throw him in. That video during pre season, when Rodgers calls Sterling out in front of the group was very interesting. I think Roy will be even more interested than me though, I noticed his reference to Mourinho and his infamous 'messages'. But yeah... that video was really chilling in a weird sort of way. It just shows what great management that was though, because obviously his attitude was slightly off at the start of pre season. At the back end of pre season he started praising him, and now he's made his full début. It's a brilliant example that Rodgers set there. On his actual performance... I thought he set the tone with the way he pulled down that long cross field pass on about the 10 minute mark. Pure coolness. Assaidi will be a good wee battle for him though...


Borini was good today, although I'm still a wee bit concerned with his first touch. I think Yorky is right though - he's a clever player. And you can never have enough clever footballers in your team.

Suarez's free kick was a scorcher. Quinn was spot on with his assessment, 'his angles were perfect'.


Football eh? Last week the Rawk carpet was drenched with the force of a thousand wet dummies, this week there's a real good feeling about the place.

I think what Roy says is true though... we need some strengthening before the window closes. Of that there is no doubt. Rodgers knows it too. I wonder what the owners thought of his comments in his post match presser? Let them listen.
You change all the lead, sleeping in my head, as the day grows dim, I hear you sing a golden hymn.

Offline archie

  • bald. Our man in Moscow. And a bloody decent chap. MIA, last seen babysitting.
  • Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,547
  • you're due a duechers
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2012, 10:36:07 am »
i don't  think i can say anything that's not been said but can i just defend Suarez in this instance, that yellow card was a joke all he was doing was protecting Sterling (OK maybe a bit loudly but that's what utd have done for years)  who was on the end of some "rougher" treatment from the city players, in reality it should have been the captain who defends his younger team-mates but too often he goes missing in these confrontations so im probably in the minority but i don't have a problem with one of our players getting a booking for defending one of their own, Now  had he got a booking for kicking the ball away or something menial then maybe but in this instance imo he was in the right


I see where you are coming from mate and having briefly scanned the main forum this appears to be a point some are making.
It's a tough one becuase we all want to see this passion from our players, but like it or not, Suarez will always be pre-judged.

He's going to get rough treatment becuase he's a great talent and also because he's a hot head. This isn't an excuse for me, he needs to walk away. Also, towards the end of the game he was screaming in the linesman's face about a decision. Whether he was in the right is irrelevant, imo he was lucky to escape without a booking for that.

The yellow card for that particualr incident may indeed have been harsh but he walked right into it.
I say he needs to 'wind it in' because the more 'joke' cautions he picks up, the more likely it is to have an impact in important games longer term. 

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,762
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2012, 11:34:26 am »
Not much to add to this except that I think Yaya Toure's comment - "This fixture is always hard but this was the hardest game I've played in since I've been in England," - would have delighted Rodgers considering his stated wish to make a visit to Anfield the longest 90 minutes of the opponents' lives. It was a remarkable observation considering that at this stage of our development we still just conceded the majority of possession to City.

It's also encouraging to feel there's a tactical vision and that the transfer dealings are purposefully moving towards implementing it. As much as the crowd showed its sympathy/liking for Carroll, I hope the manager gets his way. It's clear we do need to make Plan A better.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2012, 01:39:45 pm »
Lots of good analysis up above. The key thing for me was the difference in the ground, the positivity, the passion, the noise, the support, the optimism.  It was like a breath of fresh air and it was a mile away from the scenarios of doom peddled by a vocal minority on here.

Long may it continue and long may the team continue to put in performances that live up to it.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Online John C

  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,248
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 01:48:14 pm »
The love and hate of football.  I loved seeing an embryonic Liverpool side take on the champions in such an evocative fashion, but I hate feeling gutted for the manager and the lads having failed to gain a deserving 3-points. Rodgers deserved to enjoy his glass of wine with far greater satisfaction tonight rather than reflect on the gloom of a ridiculous back-pass.

The weather in the City of Liverpool has been dreadful during the month of August for the last few years, but except for kopites and those sitting in the rafters of the others stands, attendees at Anfield have enjoyed a warm sunshine on their faces for each of the opening home games as new hope emerges, again, with another manager. It’s quite bizarre for both young and old.

Today was the start of yet another new adventure with 2 of the most likely exciting participants of the journey watching on smartly in their Liverpool ties. The reliance of experienced players subsided as new blood whipped in to action and a fresh name at Anfield received man of the match. Of course Joe Allen is to Rodgers what Henderson was to Kenny Dalglish and you have to wonder how much game time Jordan will see this year, but sympathy won’t prevail if we witness performances like Joe’s week-in-week-out – something Jordan didn’t do sufficiently for Kenny, unfortunately. Indeed watching some of the game today, which wasn’t quite fantastic, was exactly how I expected Kenny’s side would play with ease. Alas.

Man City weren’t just poor, they were made to look poor, and the lads did it without 2 natural starters with both Agger & Lucas missing. Pity we didn’t really threaten Hart as much as we probably will at their ground. This is a carry over from last season that we must lose.

The displays and individual performances will only get better. Sterling was both excellent and criticisable, he just needs to develop an end product which I’m sure will be demonstrated in a matter of months rather than years as he matures quickly given the likely run of games in various competitions he’ll get before the end of the year.

I’ll be completely honest, I hated the game, it felt like a semi-final from which only a win would do, I wish I don’t have those feelings of fucking anxiousness, becoming a believer for 90 minutes during which I pray for a gift of a pen or any decision from an official that will grant us 3-points. Probably like many, I was fucking desperate for those points. Failure to accomplish that was no disgrace though, the lads must be proud that they not only took the game to the richest club in the world, they took the knocks and went at them again.

The measure of enthusiasm for the future can be gauged but the quality on bench though, Bellamy aside, we’ve vastly improved our impact players. Last years subs of Kuyt & Spearing will be replaced with a combination of Sterling, Sahin, Assaidi plus Carroll and/or A N Other. A summer of Swallows has flocked.

Mindful that we mustn’t get over excited about one game at Anfield in which, lets be honest, inept defending cost us dearly, but I have a feeling that once we’ve got over the first month or so it will be a case of we’ll score more than you for the rest of the season. I’m confident that we will have even a meagre strength and depth compared to th last 2-years.

There’s different and probably stiffer tests ahead , Brendan needs to prove to us that he can adapt and vary his team when necessary. Without the ability of personal managerial flexibility we’ll become too easy to read, pressure will be put on Riena by default and we’ll get found out.

The three P system is one thing, element of surprise with variation is another.

Today was horrible but today was also wonderful. Allen, Sterling, Robinson, Assaidi, Sahin,  plus more …..… means even if the sun doesn’t shine in the winter I may not hate football this season.

Offline BabuYagu

  • It's Portuguese for 'BabyYoghurt'. The John Motson of RAWK. Or Barry Davies. Or Charley Boorman, even. Expertly silent fist-pumper. Needs to pay more attention. Repeatly analing goalkeepers.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,350
  • wakelet.com/@BabuYagu
    • Wakelet of the Articles I have written
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2012, 01:51:49 pm »
Wow, that was a bloody good show wasn´t it.

I think Manchester City definately had the best of it at the start of the game, maybe the first 20 minutes, although they never really created anything. We just couldn´t settle on the ball and I think Shelvey was still trying to warm up but from that moment on we looked the superior side. I think Manchester City clearly missed the movement of Aguero and the vision of Silva for that one. Nasri and Balotelli are good players but are nothing in comparison to those 2.

Reina, Skrtel and Kelly all had excellent games in my opinion yet each had their own lapse in concentration which contributed to a Man City goal. I thought Kelly was arguably our best player first half. Coates has a good showing as well. I think that performance has ended the Carra/Coates arguement. With Coates in the side we can play a high line and players like Balotelli won´t just out muscle him or run around him like Lukaku did against Carragher. I was surprised though that Brendan preferred playing Skrtel on the left side. I understand Coates has always played on the left side for Nacional and Uruguay and even under Kenny as his is comfortable with either foot. Skrtel clearly didn´t want to play the ball up the line with his left yesterday for their 2nd whereas I think Agger and maybe Coates would have.

One thing I have noticed though is that we are repeating our mistakes. V West Brom we didn´t have anybody on the edge of the box picking up the lurker for when the ball is played out. Carragher played a short back pass. Skrtel got caught in possession in his own box. Yesterday all the same things happened. Tevez volleyed over the bar, thankfully. Balotelli won a freekick instead of a penalty catching Coates in possession and Tevez scored off Skrtel´s pass instead of Reina coming to the rescue when Carragher did the same. I know it will take time to iron out the kinks but those 3 things in particular we need to have nailed down already.

The first is very easily rectified. The second is a communication thing. If you get a shout when you are in your own box you either move it on quickly and if there is nobody available, clear it. Not saying we go back to Hodgson defending, just that in the instances where you have a striker on your back and there isn´t a red shirt free.... we cannot dribble it across our own back line to make an angle or waiting for space to appear. As for the back passing, when a team is pressing high up the pitch in unison then as a defender I always assumed there would be someone waiting for the pass back. To assume the opposite is suicide. Our guys just need to change their assumptions and stop making blind passes to their goalkeeper.

Gerrard was much more disciplined in his performance I thought. He does tend to do that against sides he respects though so this could just be that happening although I am hoping that Rodgers has made a breakthrough there. I still wouldn´t say it was a good performance from the skipper, but it was a marked improvement. Allen on the other hand is just a fantastic player. If any of you remembered when Iniesta started out at Barcelona he played in front of the back 4 and was incredibly similar to our diminutive welshman in how he moves, keeps the ball when under pressure and sprayed simple passes about to his teammates. Just made me think whether Allen could do a job higher up the pitch with Sahin and Lucas behind him?

Shelvey - I like watching him play. He looks to move the team forward and yesterday was chosing the right pass instead of the most ambitious pass as he was at Hearts. One thing I would say is I hope he never slide tackles again in his life. He has a tendancy to slide in when he cannot win the ball and these tackles will almost always give a foul and a yellow card. It was very interesting for me that he got the nod yesterday ahead of Henderson and that will have done wonders for his confidence. To be honest if someone had told me that Allen, Shelvey and Gerrard would dominate the Man City midfield I would have laughed.

Sterling looked excellent once again. His decision making for a 17 year old is exceptional. You just never see him in the wrong position or making the wrong run or running too early or holding the ball too long before passing it or running into in a cul-de-sac. He also isn´t afraid of getting stuck in despite being half the size of Toure, Balotelli and the likes. His first touch is wonderful to watch. When Coates or Shelvey pinged a long pass at him not only does he control it perfectly but he does so in a way that the ball is infront of him and he is facing Hart´s goal.

Suarez had one of those days that everything he tried didn´t quite come off. It was frustrating to watch but these days happen when you are a player that operates best in tight spaces. Then he pops up with the most wonderful of freekicks. Last season people would complain he did everything but score.... so when he gets you a goal in an ineffective game, you cannot complain.

Borini had a poor game to be honest. I´m not worried though as you can still see underneath it all, the player Rodgers signed. He makes dangerous runs and finds space in dangerous areas. He´s already showed he has an eye for a pass too. The thing I like at the moment about him is that he must know things aren´t working out for him yet.... but is still making the same runs, is tracking him man, closing down quickly. Usually when a forward is having a hard time they give up on these things first in sheer frustration. He´s sticking at it though and you feel once he scores one, probably deflected in off his shoulder, that we´ll start to see the real Borini.
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

Online stockdam

  • The sheer loftus-cheek of the man.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,531
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2012, 01:52:36 pm »
After we scored we dominated midfield and deserved to win. If we can keep that level of performance up and if we can learn from and eliminate our mistakes then we will have a very good season.

We didn't let them muscle us about and we played the better football (just). City are a good team and they won't have many matches like that were they were delighted to snatch a draw.

Allen and Gerrard played well. All of the defence was solid apart from two errors. Johnson was close to MOTM.

Sterling is coming on and will play his way onto the starting 11.

We just need Suarez to look up and start to find the free man in the box.

Don't write off Andy Carroll as he brings a different set of problems when he plays and if he stays I expect he'll show what he is worth.
#JFT97

Offline Get

  • ...ting perilously close to being banned, so even the avatar is WRONG!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,410
  • Support Brendan Rodgers
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2012, 01:53:29 pm »
Lots of good analysis up above. The key thing for me was the difference in the ground, the positivity, the passion, the noise, the support, the optimism.  It was like a breath of fresh air and it was a mile away from the scenarios of doom peddled by a vocal minority on here.

Long may it continue and long may the team continue to put in performances that live up to it.

I said before the game, that i Hope the Crowd shows up for this one, and I have been Happily surprised, Amazing atmosphere through out the whole game.

Quote from: Fordy on July 20, 2012, 01:24:46 PM
Anything more that 6m for Joe Allen and we have been ripped off.

Loads of Joe allens out there.

I would like to see him stay at Swansea myself and see if he can have another decent season. He is a championship player - players like a championship player.

Offline nocturnalvin

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,627
  • Justice For The 96.
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2012, 01:56:50 pm »
Most have already been said, but i was worried for a quite when Lucas went off. Because Lucas went off, and because we seemed lost in the midfield for a while. There wasn't much pressing, and the midfield 3 seemed confused about their respective roles. City bossed the midfield for that period. Then it became clear Allen was going to take up the mantle, Jonjo started to get into the groove, and we were in much control after that.

Yaya's comments were on the spot, and much credit should be given to Jonjo. He hassled, tackled and ruffled Yaya Toure. Not an easy feat by any measure.

I suppose we will see roller coaster performances still, especially away games. But if Anfield continues in this vein, it will be Fortress Anfield sooner rather than later.

Offline mjgill85

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,483
  • Bees? Beads?
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2012, 02:04:22 pm »
Ask a Liverpool fan about the 05/06 season and most answers will centre around the FA Cup and for good reason. Games against Man Utd, Chelsea and West Ham will live long in the memory. But in my mind one league game stands out. It was a relatively dull match away to Blackburn. A Robbie Fowler goal was enough to settle it. However, I remember many things about that game... that the goal was in part down to the then new(ish) interpretation of the offside law, Morientes' slick square pass to Fowler, Cissé hitting the post when clean through, Sissoko's song to the banana splits tune getting stuck in my head, hearing afterwards that Bellamy had spent the whole game telling Carragher how much he wanted to join in the summer and perhaps most potently... messrs Tyler & Gray saying that they could play in goal for Liverpool. The first reason that comment stuck out was the basic misunderstanding of what a goalkeeper's role is. Having to make a save is a last resort. It's when everything else has failed to stop the opposition from scoring. The organising, the communicating, the sweeping, the coming for crosses, the positioning, the early distribution... basically everything other than shot stopping was apparently irrelevant in Reina's work to them.

"our plan worked very well for us... we sat back and tried to hit them on the counter attack... that is exactly what we managed to do." Rafa Benitez 16th April 2006
 
But the main reason and the point of this preamble was the little amount of goal mouth action Blackburn were able to muster. We scored early and then basically sat back and dared Rovers to try and score. The defensive set up for the last hour of that game was what I saw as the prototypical Benitez defence. We sat in our zones, allowed the home side's centre backs the ball as long as they liked and then the individual Liverpool player closed whenever the ball entered their territory. It was so simple and it seemed like Blackburn had possession for the entire 2nd half  but they could never penetrate our penalty box... hell, they rarely got the ball behind our midfield. I'm sure we did the same thing to the same effectiveness on numerous occasions during Rafa's tenure, but that 2nd half at Ewood Park always stuck in my mind as his textbook defensive set up.
 
To try and put that into context with yesterday's game, I felt there were 2 moments, close in time, one on the ball and one off, that will be forgotten by most eventually if not already, but I feel will stick with me throughout Brendan Rodgers' time here. They were the opposite of what that Blackburn game was... that was the culmination of nearly 2 years of hard work and instilling defensive discipline into the side. These were 2 moments that I thought stuck out like a sore thumb from the beautifully manicured hand that was the closing 25 minutes of the 1st half. Moments that were un-Rodgers' Liverpool:

You win the ball back when they are are thirty metres from their goal not eighty.” Pep Guardiola 2009
 
The first was around 40 minutes into the game when Yaya Toure received the ball in the centre circle. He turned, he looked up, and played a ball over the top intended for his striker to run onto but the pass was overhit and went out for a goal kick. In of itself, nothing; but it seemed like the only occasion in that 25 minute spell that a Man City player named something other than Joe Hart or Kolo Toure was allowed time and space on the ball. Seeing the superior Toure brother having the opportunity to receive the ball, turn, pick out a pass and play it while not under any pressure during that sequence was akin to seeing the Anfield cat stroll onto the pitch with a dodo riding bareback. Man City were not given time. They were hurried and harassed, hunted in packs. They knew if they took a touch or a moment to look up that they would always have at least one red shirt snaring at their heals.

Now, don't get me wrong, this is nothing new. We've done it for longer spells on bigger occasions under previous managers. However, there was something different about yesterday. Previous managers would sometimes speak about denying the opposition time and space but it often felt like it was big stage philosophy. We'd do it against Juventus but not Wigan. Sure, Man City are the champions and as such we can count the game as a big one and if I'd never heard the new manager speak then I'd be putting the excellent pressing down to that. But I have heard Brendan Rodgers speak and to hear his belief in his 4 P's makes me believe that what we saw yesterday was the all encompassing, non prejudicial approach to closing down. We won't discriminate between good & bad, rich & poor, English & European, big & small, home & away... you're all getting the same treatment. The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course, but it's a pudding that's going to take a long time to bake before it's fully edible. Building up both the physical and mental fitness to press and press and press for 90 minutes week after week after week isn't going to be finished in time for Arsenal next weekend. In some cases it will be a complete change of character and approach for individual players, in others it will require new personnel. In both instances it's a work in progress that might not be fully implemented to the boss's high standards for 18 months. In the past we would watch us closing down high up the pitch in some games and wonder why we didn't do it all the time. My hope is that in the coming months & years we will start to see the games where we don't do it as the anomalies.

A true friend is the best possession.” Benjamin Franklin

The second moment was again late in the first half. The ball was played wide to Borini on the right wing and with no real support he decided against taking on Kolarov and instead attempted an 'ambitious' through ball to Suarez that was never on. Kompany and Hart comfortably watched it go out for a goal kick. The reason this stood out? It was the only time in that first half spell that a Liverpool player on the ball was isolated. Borini had no real options, no-one showing, no-one making a run, no-one close enough to give him a shout. Now this is something we saw plenty of in previous years and even last week at West Brom. But again this is a positive in a way... the fact that that moment was a glaringly unusual instance of play in that 25 minute taster shows that the players are taking on board and presumably now believing in what the boss is telling them. "When going forward, the best way to move the ball up the field is to create angles of diagonal pass". Every other time a man in red had the ball it seemed like he had 2 or 3 players in position to receive a pass. Movement, creating space, wanting the ball, options. To see that not happening and consider it a strange occurrence is a wonderful thing.

Forgive me but I'm going to quote Joe Cole after one of the pre-season games: "Of course it is going to take time but you can see the mind-set changing." It's not a quick change, again it's both a matter of changing the philosophy of current players and replacing other current players. But to see us put it together for a lengthy period of time against the champions of this league is hopefully a pleasant sign of things to come. Green shoots of progress and all that.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 02:07:26 pm by mjgill85 »
@_michaelgill

Offline Rococo

  • mo-sissoko
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,123
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2012, 02:05:18 pm »
Lots of good analysis up above. The key thing for me was the difference in the ground, the positivity, the passion, the noise, the support, the optimism.  It was like a breath of fresh air and it was a mile away from the scenarios of doom peddled by a vocal minority on here.

Long may it continue and long may the team continue to put in performances that live up to it.

Absolutely.  I was in the Main Stand for the first time since Wigan last year and the difference was massive.  There seemed to be a real appreciation for what we're trying to achieve and an acknowledgement that retaining possession means that sideways and backwards passing  are part of the plan.

On the pitch, I thought we were good.  The movement off the ball was great and there was a willingness from all players to take the ball, even if not in the best position to receive it.

Allen was fantastic.  The best compliment I can pay him is that the unfortunate loss of Lucas didn't result in a big gaping hole in front of our back four, as was the case last season.

It's an easy argument to make, but I'd love to see Borini playing in the centre rather than out wide.  The moves he make are intelligent and, if reports are to be believed, he's a good finisher too.  This is still where we're looking a bit short.  Added to that, I think that Suarez is very effective when cutting in from wider positions, so think they would work well in that set up.

Coates looked a bit nervy in the opening exchanges, with a few long clearances, rather than playing the ball out.  His positional play was good though and his timing of tackles looks to be very good, so I think that his selection justified itself over the 90 minutes.

Sterling is an odd one, in that  I couldn't help but notice how small he was compared to everyone else, but he really wasn't bullied out there.  He seems quite a strong player.  His pace and willingness to attack is so refreshing - with the right balance of exposure to first team football and protection, he's going to be a really useful player.

Skrtel impressed me - aside from his 'moment', I thought he had a great game.  This is all part of adapting to the new system and Rodgers is right in pointing out that the fault is in the lack of passing options that were available to him.  That said, there probably is still a time and place for 'getting rid' and a blind pass towards the keeper is never a great idea.  I think Johnson made an equally dodgy pass across the defence in the first half, which could also have resulted in a goal.  Hopefully, as the system beds in, these incidents will become fewer.

Anyway, great day, very good performance and lots to look forward to,

Offline RooiBefok

  • (Crank) Minority Martyr, and Defender & Lover of The 5th Benitle. His most ardent fan. Adores him. No really, I think he's great. The best.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,015
  • Perservate et Superate
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2012, 02:06:46 pm »
Well, I certainly enjoyed watching our game yesterday.  More than happy with a 2-2 drawn result with the current League Champions at this point in our resurgence.

Every Player played his part and looked far more comfortable in playing the ‘Rodgers Approach’.  So few negatives that they are not even worth mentioning.  Whilst all the Players deserve individual praise, Sterling, Allen and Shelvey deserve special mention – they were sublime, with Shelvey’s tenacity and work rate deserving MOTM in my opinion.

I got the distinct impression that Manchester City structured their game around our set-up and tactics, when for so many years it has been us who “fear” the opposition and set-up to counter their so called “threat”.  If we continue going into games with the mindset to play “Our” game, then we have already physiologically won 20% of the battle on the day.

Furthermore, I loved the fact that at 1-0 up or when 2-1 up we didn’t “shut-up shop” as has been our norm under all three of our last Managers.  Rodgers positive approach to the game will rub-off on all the Players which will lead to us no longer dropping our heads when behind or becoming complacent when leading.

Attached is our ‘Average Player Positions’ of yesterday’s match compared to that of West Brom’s game.  It is immediately obvious that we were far more compact and direct in our approach and focused on narrowing our ‘Pass Distances’ compared to that against West Brom.  (Ignore Lucas [21] Average Position in yesterday’s game as he was only on the field for 4 minutes).

Roll On Thursday and Sunday!

“The 5th Benitle fell in love with himself eighteen years ago and has remained faithful ever since”

Offline Jellies

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,683
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2012, 02:14:40 pm »
Without talking to much about the individual players, I'd like to just comment on how well Rodgers adapted during the game. He set up in a 4-3-3 with Gerrard a bit deeper than against WBA and Allen just in front of Lucas who were the last man. When Shelvey came on, Allen went back in the defensive midfielder position and Shelvey moved a bit up while Gerrard moved a bit down so the two were about in line with each other (though still with Gerrard going forward most of the time). It was clear after 25 minutes that we would lose the match as much as it was played in the centre of the field. Allen and Shelvey struggled building anything positive up by going up the middle of the field and Man City had 60% possession. Rodgers must've told the players to keep the play on the wings and he was brave enough to let them focus on the left side of the field where most of our attacks came from and where a 17 year old would be a central part in the quick build-up. It worked. Where Man City had Yaya and De Jong usually bossing the game in the middle, we refused to let them into the game and we went by our wing play. Both of them were almost completely anonymous and it's no coincidence Yaya said it was his most difficult game in his time in England. Rodgers' alteration should've and almost did give us the victory and we bossed the game for the last 65 minutes because of it.

Offline KK Legend

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2012, 02:33:49 pm »
Not much to add to this except that I think Yaya Toure's comment - "This fixture is always hard but this was the hardest game I've played in since I've been in England," - would have delighted Rodgers considering his stated wish to make a visit to Anfield the longest 90 minutes of the opponents' lives. It was a remarkable observation considering that at this stage of our development we still just conceded the majority of possession to City.



Absolutely. A very intriguing observation from an undoubted top-tier player.  Although I knew very little beforehand about Joe Allen, the few games he's had now has most certainly whetted my appetite to see him and Lucas on a more regular basis. Toure and co. must have been sick of the sight of him by the end of the match.

Don't get me wrong Shelvey was excellent when he took Lucas's place and deserves a lot of credit also, I think though, that once our favoured back four are in their proper positions and Lucas and Allen hopefully click up a good partnership we will ( again hopefully) see a step up from the immense effort and performance yesterday.

I refuse to chastise Skrtel, I think he showed by his reaction on the pitch that he was gutted enough and not only for himself I felt, Liverpool is in the lad's heart alright!

Also, Borini, still can't seem to get the toss of a coin right but not because of lack of effort or passion or skill even, him geeing up our support was just as exciting and welcome as all the other positives of the day!

Offline Vortigen

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2012, 02:47:49 pm »
I would have been happy with a draw if we had been outplayed.  Seeing as how we bossed the game and would have won it were it not for silly mistakes, I cannot help but feel disappointed.  Still, a point from City is not a bad result at this stage.  There were encouraging signs on display, and I can only hope we go on to do better from here. 

I was very pleased with the team selection; however, I think the front 3 spots still need some tweaking.  Namely, I believe Borini should play centrally instead of Suarez, or they should interchange more effectively. 

As for Carroll, I am really not sure if he fits or not, and that I guess is the whole problem.  Do we keep him and risk him being ineffective, or do we get rid of him and risk losing out on a player who could really rise to the occasion?  It's a tricky situation.  If, however, we do sell him my hope is that Rodgers has a suitable replacement lined up, and by suitable I don't mean Dempsey or Sturridge.  I'd much prefer a quick and technical finisher like Hernandez or a wide forward like Walcott.   

Offline WhiteHeat

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,792
  • wants the traditions of LFC back.
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2012, 03:23:07 pm »
Very positive performance. We were the better side and some of our interplay was slick. At times it wasn't, but that's all down to not being used to the new way of playing. We'll get there over time.

Only two errors cost us a win I reckon we deserved. On to Thursday and then Sunday. I'm certainly not afraid of Arsenal.

Offline decferry

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 41
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2012, 03:28:57 pm »
http://forum.rojadirecta.es/showthread.php?177674-FUTBOL-(English-Premier-League)-Liverpool-v-Manchester-City-26.08.12&s=8e4ee7278d03903e60a9c040e7945108

Download links for the full match if anybody would like to go through it all again before adding to the round table.

Good man, thanks a lot for those

Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,661
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2012, 03:33:14 pm »
First 20 minutes or so I thought we were poor. Nervousness (or over-eagerness) meant misplaced passes and poor first touches. But then....

I'm glad the atmosphere's been mentioned. The obvious turning point in the first half was the corner when Borini started gesturing to the Kop for more support. The "Liverpool! Liverpool! Liverpool!" that was bellowed back at him seemed to say, "fair enough lad, try this on for size" and instantly gave all the players an extra yard. From that moment until Skrtel's unstoppable headed missile the ground was absolutely bubbling over, the other stands taking their cue from Borini and The Kop. It was the last 10 minutes against Olympiacos (or the first 10 against Juve) all over again and as already pointed out shows what a lift it can give the players.

Was bitterly disappointed at the end, but it didn't last very long when you looked back on all the positives and some great individual performances.

Offline Il Capitano

  • Forza Liverpool. This thing of ours...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,199
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2012, 03:39:18 pm »
On the Skrtel backpass: I think it's good that we get the mistakes out early. Rodgers will no doubt be looking at that in training, meaning the team can focus on looking at improving the options off of the man in possession of the football. If there is something that I think we'll see evolve in the coming weeks from this team, I think it is the quality of the passing triangles. More players should be looking to find the right space that they can a) make themselves available to the man in possession, and b) find small areas in which they can control the ball without being immediately pressed into pressurised mistakes by the opposition. The team should be getting very, very good at passing to each other in the coming months.

Offline Redeo

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 888
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2012, 04:03:39 pm »
Some great posts already making it difficult to add something new.
Finally, a chance to see Rodgers' philosophy applied at the biggest stage, and it is hard not to be excited. The game showed what sort of players Rodgers values: smart and direct.

Allen is the perfect example. His biggest asset is obviously his game intelligence. The simplicity of his game is a site to behold. It is just beautiful to watch how he uses his small body to outmaneuver the likes of Yaya Toure on a consistent basis. With him in the middle, we can live with Gerrard's more forceful and risky game.

Borini = exactly the same. Highly efficient player whose key attributes are high energy levels and the proclivity for making smart, well-timed runs. The lad just needs a goal or two and he could be a huge hit. His attitude appears relentless, as well, and I loved how he roused the crowed as we made the push in the first half.

Many of the lads Rodgers inherited very much fit into his philosophy, and here I mean Suarez who interchanged really well with Borini, Sterling of whom much has been written but who is most obviously quick, smart and direct, Kelly who made several great tackles and runs and was unfortunate on their first goal, Shelvey who also finally got his big chance and proved he can hold his own at the biggest stage.

The only three lads that I feel will struggle to adapt to Rodgers' philosophy are Carroll ('nough said), Carragher, and Enrique. I doubt Carra has enough speed, energy, and technical ability to comfortably adapt to the passing game. IMO opinion he's too static with the ball at his feet. Enrique just does not play simple enough. IMO, he has an awful tendency to avoid playing the most obvious and simplest option (like Allen). He tends to hang onto the ball, get himself into corners, or surrounded by a couple of players and only then try to work his way out.

It's a website mate. Names can't be named. If they were, there'd be mutiny. If they aren't, people will scream ... ask for proof. But you will never find 100% proof of anything on here. So, .. look at all evidence, weigh everything up and make a decision.

Offline Greebo62

  • Matchday Project Manager. Amazingly Available! Apply within, ladies.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,322
  • Justice for the 96
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2012, 04:11:06 pm »
Love. This. Thread.

Positives from the game: So many have been mentioned already, but one I'd like to underline is that Lucas' injury wasn't the disatser it would have been last season.  Primarily down to Joe allen's ability to mop up Lucas' role as well as his own.  Every time we did something useful in the midfield (shielded the ball, made a brisk passing interchange, mopped up a Manchester City break, or pressed em till they lost it, there was one name repeated by the commentary team - Joe Allen.  What a midfielder.

Shelvey came on and my heart was in my mouth, but after 10 mins or so we seemed to settle.  I found it interesting taht Allen's post match interview he talked about having to adapt to the fact that Manchester City were effectively trying to play 343 and overwhelm the middle, and that it needed a slight adjustment.  The fact that he spoke about us adjusting I see as a really positive sign that A) we're not as tactically naiive in the playing staff as perviously, and B) Joe allen's intelligence makes him a natural leader.

Other great positives from the game were Sterlings full league debut - we need to manage expectations with this kid, but I liked Rodgers saying that he needs to be consistent in his work rate and movement and attitude and he would keep a close eye on that.  I bet he will!  Nevertheless, I can't think of another youngster who's had such an impressive full debut with us.  Certainly not recently.  Fair do's to rodgers too for playing the kid.

Not going to dwell on Skrtl's brainfart, but it seemed to me that Pepe needed to be further out to act as a sweeper in such circumstances.  The pass might have reached him if he was starting from 12 yds out rather than 6.  Only a thought.

Coates looked understandably nervous on the telly prior to kick off - but then I saw Skrtl come and put an arm round his shoulder and he gave a weak grin.  Started nervously too, but seemed to grow in both confidence and game intelligence over the course of the game.

Interesting that when Enrique came on, Sterling looked less sure of himself, and ended up on the right (whether to continue playing with Johnson or because Enrique seemed to want to occupy the same spaces sometimes on the left).  Even so I'd still prefer Johnson on the right any day.

Other positives to take away:-  We played a bunch of youngsters in the Hearts match.  Sterling impressed in that game, and ended up with a start against the defending champions.  How cool is that if you're an academy player - not only that but the one who got that start was the one you've witnessed being told to watch himself or he'd be on the 1st plane home, who has clearly knuckled down and worked hard since.  What kind of message does that send to the youngsters and those on the fringes about their chances if they put the effort and correct attitude in?

All in all, a good game in which we were unlucky not to win, but one in which we showed progress and signs of things to be positive about.  We also gave Nuri Sahin a taster of that "special" Anfield atmosphere, so it's a good job we weren't playing Stoke on a wet Tuesday for his first experience of it.  Also loved the way Borini gee-ed the crowd up, and the way the crowd responded.

Only a point, but for me signs that things are finally getting better.

Believe...

Offline MichaelA

  • MasterBaker, honey-trapper and 'concerned neighbour'. Beyond The Pale. Vermin on the ridiculous. Would love to leave Ashley Cole gasping for air. Dupe Snoop Extraordinaire. RAWK MARTYR #1. The proud owner of a new lower case a. Mickey Two Sheds.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 29,365
  • At the Academy
  • Super Title: MichaelA
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2012, 04:17:55 pm »
Love. This. Thread.

Same here. I shouldn't be cluttering it up with simple praise, but it's amazing what a bit of positivity on the pitch can do for the fans who are off it. I've got a feeling of optimism that I misplaced about five years ago. I'm not expecting wonders, but I feel like we have a team that can play decent football, set up to win, set up to make our opposition feel the pressure.

Offline Torpedo Tommy

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,526
  • Always next year!
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2012, 04:23:54 pm »
Happy-ish

I didn't panic last week when we lost to West Brom so I ain't going to pipe on stating that we have turned a corner.  Mistakes aside I was very impressed but I'm not expecting us to run into a sequence of 10 wins.  The corner we are turning is a long one and we must be prepared for a few more let downs.

The good thing is that we are turning that corner and there have been signs over the last few weeks that we are changing the way we play.  Difficult decisions have been made by Brendan Rodgers that I didn't think he would have so soon.

What impresses me is that we have cover all over the field in most positions.  I say most because we do need someone to score the goals but most positions will have the obvious choices on their toes.  Of course certain aspects of that cover could be improved but the squad is definitely getting stronger.

The way we put 100% graft into pressing City out of possession was excellent.  Of course we can and will improve but consideration should be given to how long the manager has had to instill his beliefs into the players and also the quality of the opponents.

Can't say anyone played badly but whilst it was an excellent team performance, there were some outstanding individual shows.

Raheem Sterling comes in and shows much of what we have been missing on that wing.  Hard work, making himself available, belief and hunger.  This performance was everything that Downing has failed to show to date.  Personally, I hope the challenge brings a positive reaction out of him and we then have a number of options in all attacking positions.

I feared the worse when Lucas went off.  The way he jogged off gave encouragement to the possibility of a quick return but I did expect us to be over run a little by Manchester City.  Which comes to the little fella in midfield.  What a show by Allen.  To dictate that central area containing the quality of players that City had there was something else.  His work rate was second to none but his know how was a different level.  Always in the right area at the right time both with and without the ball.  Releases the ball much quicker than we have done for a long time and because we are much higher up the pitch, the released pass is usually involved in us moving into attack.  Brilliant from the lad.

Walking out on the Kop felt different yesterday for two reasons.  The second I'll come on to shortly but when I saw Coates lined up with Skrtel my heart sank.  Not because I dislike either Martin or Seb or in suggesting it was was a wrong decision in any way.  My feelings went straight out to Carra.  We were missing Agger and his omission was probably the most signifying action that suggests that his playing days are now limited at Anfield.  Of course it happens to all players at some point and in truth, most of us had been expecting it, but Sunday at 4pm the reality hit home.

But, onto Seb - the lad did well.  He hoofed a few early on but soon settled and demonstrated why he will be immense for us in the future.  Talking of immense - how fucking big is he?  He must be at least two inches taller that Skrtel and Skrtel's no stump.

The final 'individual' mention should go to Shelvey.  He had a poor show against Hearts in my opinion.  He just didn't come across as interested and I for one hoped that it wasn't an attitude problem.  Credit to him though, he looked focused and did very well against City

In respect of the goals conceded, they were poor mistakes but it seems that every time we make a mistake we concede from it.  This happened last season too.  Surely we are due a bit of luck soon (conveniently forgetting the Tevez shot that hit the post!)

Goals scored - Skrtel's header was majestic.  I watched his run (which must have been twenty yards!) and there was only going to be one winner in that penalty area.  I'm not small but I would not have liked to have got caught in his path when he was homing in on that.  Great header

Suarez's free kick was superb even if Hart hadn't lined his wall up properly.

Both goals were excellent but when are we going to get a 6 yard tap in?  I'm not convinced we have that player but with our now increased number of players getting in the box, a 'goalscorer' would reap havoc in that team.  Borini nearly nicked one early on but we simply don't get many at all.

The second thing I noticed was about the crowd.  The atmosphere was very good but there were a lot of new faces on the Kop that were sat in long standing ST's seats.  Not sure if this relates to the holiday period or a bank holiday weekend but did anyone else notice this?

Onwards and upwards - well done chaps

Offline Greebo62

  • Matchday Project Manager. Amazingly Available! Apply within, ladies.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,322
  • Justice for the 96
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2012, 04:24:58 pm »
I actually meant the Round Table in general rather than just this particular game's thread.  First time I've ever really contibuted to it.

YNWA
Believe...

Offline sonnyred

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2012, 04:25:21 pm »
I thought the team played well and lots of positives came from it. Joe Allen looks like a terrier Mascherano in midfield, but Allen seems to have a bit more class and imagination in his passing, as well as being able to keep it simple when needed. Sterling's first-touch was quality and against lesser teams he will run riot. A great debut. At this moment, I don't think any team in the prem has a back-up midfielder in the class of Shelvey. If he gains consistency, I don't see him being a back-up player for much longer. And glad to see Enrique back. Gives better balance to the defence and allows Johnson back on the right, which he looks far more threatening going forward.

But I'm not getting carried away. There will be ups and downs this season. Rodgers is trying to build something and it may take a lot longer than a season. But I like how he's started and how wants us to play. Especially pressing other teams high up the pitch and harrying their defenders in their own half, instead of letting them coast into our half. We want the ball back fast, and when we get it we want to keep it. Great philosophy and hopefully we'll see it more and more as the players get used to this style.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2012, 04:31:51 pm »
I actually meant the Round Table in general rather than just this particular game's thread.  First time I've ever really contibuted to it.

YNWA

I think Mike was alluding to the same thing though mate.  As was I in my post about the atmosphere at the ground.  I think that the round table threads we have done are consistently good but I think that this is the best one we've had.  There is nothing more likely to inspire you to write eloquently about your side than the realisation that you believe in them again. 
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Greebo62

  • Matchday Project Manager. Amazingly Available! Apply within, ladies.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,322
  • Justice for the 96
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2012, 04:43:50 pm »
I think Mike was alluding to the same thing though mate.  As was I in my post about the atmosphere at the ground.  I think that the round table threads we have done are consistently good but I think that this is the best one we've had.  There is nothing more likely to inspire you to write eloquently about your side than the realisation that you believe in them again. 

Going to pinch that one as a sig:)
Believe...

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

  • Neghead. hard and gagging. Will never be Barnes
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,684
Re: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2012, 04:50:34 pm »
I thought having a winger who can carry the ball and allow us to push up and compress play helped greatly. Think playing borini up top is a must it will allow Suarez more space to operate in and have a better finisher in the vital position
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 04:52:45 pm by itsgunnabebarnes! »
'Tramps like us, baby we were born to run!'