Author Topic: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?  (Read 3339 times)

Offline Danyaals Kop

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The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« on: September 19, 2011, 03:21:40 pm »
Finally, I came to think about it and now raise the question.

Under Rafa, there were times when we criticized the man's tactical ability but it had loads of effects. Now, I'm not gonna say this due to one awful result against Spurs but I just thought that we lost due to one main area on the pitch, the midfield. One spot which Rafa loved toying with.

Now, in the previous 5 games, we have had the very same midfield of Henderson--Lucas--Adam--Downing, obviously opposition managers aren't that stupid that they realize that and then take advantage. You could use those four every two/three games but not all the time. Spurs exploited us to full effect. They have must have analyzed any mistakes which they know their players could use to cause harm and thus, it was shown.

So, the question, though this is Kenny reign, would you consider The Rotation Policy as a yes or a no ?

Is is good enough to have a strong eleven and field them out everytime or should the gaffer shuffle the cards a bit now and then...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 03:44:50 pm by Danyaals Kop »

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: The Rotation Policy
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2011, 03:26:15 pm »
To be fair to Kenny he has continually said that it's a squad and not a team game.

This would surely suggest that he plans on using different players throughout the season.

From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline plasterered

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Re: The Rotation Policy
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2011, 03:29:18 pm »
kenny will rotate midfield players when gerrard is playing, he already rotates the attack and defense

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Rotation Policy
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 03:30:13 pm »
What is the point in a rotation system when the team has no real set style or understanding yet?

Offline Danyaals Kop

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Re: The Rotation Policy
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 03:32:45 pm »
What is the point in a rotation system when the team has no real set style or understanding yet?

There are obviously different styles of play that a teah has to get used to do.

When we are playing a team with less or more pace than us, we play well, link up and perform. However, previous two games, a little bit of pace in the middle and wing has caused us problems... So, I raise the question, if rotation is useful here, to use Kuyt for Hendo, Spearing for Adam etc.

Offline MassDriver

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 04:21:05 pm »
I do think Rotation is needed, will keep the fans excited as well.


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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2011, 04:21:06 pm »
I do think Rotation is needed, will keep the fans excited as well.

I'd be more excited by a settled 11 winning games to be honest.

Offline GrkStav

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 04:25:03 pm »
It was obvious to me that vs Spurs we had a three-man midfield, with Hendo as the most advanced midfielder, and Suarez and Downing flanking Carroll, until Adam was sent off.

In retrospect, Downing or Suarez "in front" of Skrtel and Carragher "behind him" (so to speak) was probably too much of a gamble.

Had Henderson and Adam not been starters, in favor of Spearing and Kuyt, the result may have been different.

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Offline rocco

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 04:32:16 pm »
IMO rotation is not neeed once we have our found our best team on the pitch as still very early in the season and the team should be playing as much together as possible , all players need games but not at this stage use the carling cup for rotation will still leave us with a strong 11 for the carling cup

Rotation  will be needed as players get injured and performances drop but not yet
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 04:36:07 pm by rocco »

Offline farawayred

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 04:32:33 pm »
What does "rotation" and "strongest 11" mean? Does rotation mean that each player has to play the same number of games over a season? Does "strongest 11" mean that you put your best players out until someone gets injured and/or burned out? Neither of these so widely used terms make any sense to me. It's a fine, almost non-existent line between the two views, but most people won't admit it - the "strongest 11" are these that can perform best in the next game, which means that if some legs are tired, you'd rotate a few players.
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Offline Danyaals Kop

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 07:18:49 pm »
What does "rotation" and "strongest 11" mean? Does rotation mean that each player has to play the same number of games over a season? Does "strongest 11" mean that you put your best players out until someone gets injured and/or burned out? Neither of these so widely used terms make any sense to me. It's a fine, almost non-existent line between the two views, but most people won't admit it - the "strongest 11" are these that can perform best in the next game, which means that if some legs are tired, you'd rotate a few players.

Rotation meaning, swapping players every now and then, changing your team to try different tactics, in that essence.

Offline farawayred

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 08:31:39 pm »
Rotation meaning, swapping players every now and then, changing your team to try different tactics, in that essence.
Then "rotation" in that sense is not that different from "horses for courses", which is "best 11" for that purpose...

All I'm saying is that these are cliches which have little meaning outside of a given context.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 09:23:02 pm »
Of course we need to rotate. Change 2-3 players for every game. It's just common sense.

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Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 09:37:58 pm »
Rafa used the rotation policy because his sides worked their fucking arses off pressing the hell out of the opposition and playing at a fast tempo when they had the ball. With three games a week the players wouldn't be able to play every game as they would burn out.

If Kenny has us playing at a fast tempo and a high pressing game then he may need rotation, but with no europe he may get away with the same team each week.

Offline FernandoTourettes

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2011, 10:20:12 pm »
Under Rafa, there were times when we criticized the man's tactical ability
We did?? There were very few times under Rafa where I thought we were failing specifically tactically, as was evident all the way through Hodgson's reign and against Spurs over the weekend.

Although we did rotate under Rafa, he kept the core of the team the same where possible. Under Kenny I can't see why this can't be the same. He clearly likes Henderson but why not rotate him with Kuyt for instance. Kuyt would have certainly have helped us in midfield against Spurs.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2011, 10:39:02 pm »
We did?? There were very few times under Rafa where I thought we were failing specifically tactically, as was evident all the way through Hodgson's reign and against Spurs over the weekend.

Although we did rotate under Rafa, he kept the core of the team the same where possible. Under Kenny I can't see why this can't be the same. He clearly likes Henderson but why not rotate him with Kuyt for instance. Kuyt would have certainly have helped us in midfield against Spurs.

Agree.

I guess the idea with Henderson is we see something big in him and want to include him and show him trust. Personally, I can't believe we're using him ahead of Kuyt. That's no disrespect to Henderson. I just see Kuyt as a key player for us. I'd also play Maxi ahead of Henderson. Both Kuyt and Maxi are very reliable players. Henderson has time on his side.

With Enrique, Adam, Downing and Carroll as new players, I just don't see the point in adding Henderson to the mix when we could/should include perhaps our most consistent performer over the past few years.


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"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Danyaals Kop

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2011, 10:42:14 pm »
We did?? There were very few times under Rafa where I thought we were failing specifically tactically, as was evident all the way through Hodgson's reign and against Spurs over the weekend.

Although we did rotate under Rafa, he kept the core of the team the same where possible. Under Kenny I can't see why this can't be the same. He clearly likes Henderson but why not rotate him with Kuyt for instance. Kuyt would have certainly have helped us in midfield against Spurs.

I didn't as well but I would remember coming on this forum when we drew or lost and shit loads of posters having a go and saying Zonal marking sucks and rotation gets the better of Rafa and it was not needed...

I fully agree with your last sentence and think that even if we need to sacrifice Henderson from fulfilling his potential by playing all 38 league games a season in sake of playing better, do it.

Offline DanA

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 11:10:49 pm »
We didn't have the squad. Rotating in N'gog, El Zhar, Spearing, Degen etc wasn't cutting it. It's necessary but not advisable with the squad we had.
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Offline GeneticRed

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2011, 11:23:44 pm »
When Rafa was rotating wasn't there the same thing going on at United and Chelsea?
It was just the press constantly going on about it that made evryone think it was just him. Before him they called Ranieri the 'tinkerman'.
Everyone was at it. Everyone still is. It's part of the modern game.
Players tire and need to changed, teams have different systems that need to be combatted and its good also to surprise the opposition because with all the technology everyone knows so much about each other. It's good to keep people guessing sometimes.
The more flexible and unpredictable your team is the better in my view. Learn to play different ways with different players and you can constantly give you opponents something new to think about.

Offline saintslfc13

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2011, 12:27:52 am »
What is the point in a rotation system when the team has no real set style or understanding yet?

Simple, the set style is worked upon in training drillls and scrimmage sessions, theoretically every player in the squad should be well versed in the style we want to play and how that corresponds to their position(s) so that if called upon they can come in and do the job we want from them. What will separate the routine "starters" from the role players is their ability to continually make the right decisions during games, provide an extra bit of spark or creativity, read the game better and have better chemistry with their fellow "starters".

In short every player within the squad should know the basic fundamentals required of them to play their position(s) in the style Kenny wants us to play. This doesn't mean we should expect Skrtel to know how to play upfront in our system, but we should be able to expect him to know and to execute if deployed at right back for example, at least at the basic level the position requires in our system. No one expects him to bomb up the wings like Johnson or Kelly, that's why they're preferred there to Skrtel.

Another example is Lucas, he's our primary defensive/holding midfielder, but we should expect him to be able to perform well fundamentally as a more attacking midfielder should the need arise. Sure he might not do it as well as Gerrard would, especially if the role was entirely attacking, but he should be able to fill in there if he's a better option than (insert name here) and someone else we're grooming for that position can't play for whatever reason.

That being said I think Kenny is a fan of rotation to be honest, in fact it would seem the only people that aren't fans of the policy are members of the media, people who have a personal vendetta against Rafa Benitez, or both.

Offline FernandoTourettes

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2011, 01:21:58 am »
When Rafa was rotating wasn't there the same thing going on at United and Chelsea?

Rafa made it 99 games without keeping the same starting 11 ( during a time where were trying to compete in the champions league with a poorish squad ) and there was uproar. Then Ferguson went over 103...104...etc without anyone noticing and it wasn't brought up. All we hear these days is how "it's a squad game now".

Offline woof

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Re: The Rotation Policy, is it needed ?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2011, 02:27:45 am »
Simple, the set style is worked upon in training drillls and scrimmage sessions, theoretically every player in the squad should be well versed in the style we want to play and how that corresponds to their position(s) so that if called upon they can come in and do the job we want from them. What will separate the routine "starters" from the role players is their ability to continually make the right decisions during games, provide an extra bit of spark or creativity, read the game better and have better chemistry with their fellow "starters".

In short every player within the squad should know the basic fundamentals required of them to play their position(s) in the style Kenny wants us to play. This doesn't mean we should expect Skrtel to know how to play upfront in our system, but we should be able to expect him to know and to execute if deployed at right back for example, at least at the basic level the position requires in our system. No one expects him to bomb up the wings like Johnson or Kelly, that's why they're preferred there to Skrtel.

Another example is Lucas, he's our primary defensive/holding midfielder, but we should expect him to be able to perform well fundamentally as a more attacking midfielder should the need arise. Sure he might not do it as well as Gerrard would, especially if the role was entirely attacking, but he should be able to fill in there if he's a better option than (insert name here) and someone else we're grooming for that position can't play for whatever reason.

That being said I think Kenny is a fan of rotation to be honest, in fact it would seem the only people that aren't fans of the policy are members of the media, people who have a personal vendetta against Rafa Benitez, or both.
Agreed. Just look at Arsenal at their best when any player could be slotted in and run the plays they practised.

Rafa made major changes to the team and that got everyone peeved.