Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 832576 times)

Offline eddymunster

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,926
  • JFT96
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #120 on: April 10, 2015, 10:37:32 am »
The article is a reality check, highlighted by the Sterling intrigue. There is an air of identity crisis that was not there before the Utd/Arsenal defeats. Our boat has definately been rocked. Perhaps its a good thing in away to have a look in the mirror and be honest in looking at who you are and where you stand.
YNWA

That sounds like a fucking Horoscope.

And the article is mainly garbage. People really do have short memories at times.
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,302
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #121 on: April 10, 2015, 10:38:53 am »
fsg will sell when they think the tv money rises will stop...because it will only be downside form there on in.

we are sort of coming out of recession even though there is less money about in real terms.
football money still went up.

can argue reasons why that is...any increases in subscriptions and an eu migrant exodus in the coming years could see a problem.

pl money goes up ....is the cl a real need anymore for fsg?
especially if they have to buy from the top group of players where prices can be 40 mil on the low end?

doesnt financially make sense.
Freedom of Speech unless you get shouted down and abused by the in-crowd.

Offline Dave D

  • Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,678
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2015, 10:40:40 am »
I think after half a decade in charge, the fans have every right to ask questions about FSG.

The opinion of some people appears to be that simply turing a profit is the sign of a well run club and all that money will be pumped back into the club. If that is the case, then Newcastle are the best run club in the world and our owners should follow the Mike Ashley model, I have no doubt they're already taking tips from him.

It's about getting the balance right between making money for themselves and doing what is best for the football club. At the moment we're about 95% business, 5% football.

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,492
  • YNWA
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #123 on: April 10, 2015, 10:45:33 am »
I think after half a decade in charge, the fans have every right to ask questions about FSG.

The opinion of some people appears to be that simply turing a profit is the sign of a well run club and all that money will be pumped back into the club. If that is the case, then Newcastle are the best run club in the world and our owners should follow the Mike Ashley model, I have no doubt they're already taking tips from him.

Other than the fact Newcastle don't reinvest it, nor do they strive to increase revenues beyond the TV income.

Where as we have invested way beyond what we've made in profit, have pushed to vastly increase commercial income, and have found a solution to expand Anfield to add a huge chunk in revenue.

So I'd say there is simply no comparison to Newcastle at all.

Quote
It's about getting the balance right between making money for themselves and doing what is best for the football club. At the moment we're about 95% business, 5% football.

I'd agree, if they made any money for themselves. Given they haven't I don't think this comment could be anymore wrong.

Offline Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,548
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #124 on: April 10, 2015, 10:51:43 am »
this is from Ayre two months ago:

"“When we talk about a financial prudency and managing the football club in the best way we can with what we have got, then that does mean investing in younger players some of the time that will cost less money to buy but give us better long term value.

“We can’t compete with some people who seem to have deeper pockets. But if you go about it the right way - and get the right result - then we can still be successful."

It's sound. You read that and yes, it makes sense. But it doesn't tell the whole story. We are not having a shoestring transfer budget, but we like to send that kind of message. No more

'We buy young players because we can't afford to compete otherwise. Look at the others, they have so much more money to spend!'

When we go out buy players for 100M in a single summer, it's hard to sell a message we're cash strapped. Quite frankly, it's nonsense. We allow ourselves to throw a bit of money here and there. It's no wonder we blame lack of cash. We lose it so fast. I don't know how many examples we have, but it's plenty. Coates, Ilori, Aspas and Alberto = more than 25M spent. Not a single one of them even play for us this season. What about Lambert, Borini, Balotelli and Lovren? They all struggle to get a game, even when they're fit, our first picks are injured and we struggle as a team. It's 50M spent on those players. Remove all of those seven listed there and think Suarez. Same money. We'd afford the wages too.
 
There's a lot of basic work that needs to be done here. Before that's done, we don't have the right to talk about lack of money. Yes, others have more, but it wouldn't matter if we had another 50M on top of what we have now. We'd spend it the same way.

I keep saying this, it really drives me mad. We have the resources to do things in a different way. This is not 2010 and Joe Cole-on-a-free-time. So let's not try and make it sound like we have no choice. We have better opportunities than almost everyone. It's time for us to realise that and make the most of it.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Bullan

  • I can't believe I ate the whole thing...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,583
  • Speed of The Sound Of Loneliness
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #125 on: April 10, 2015, 10:53:12 am »

Quite simply, the transfer strategy has to change. If the TC deals with getting in good young talent, then Brendan should be in charge of spending the rest of the money how he sees fit. If a player can improve us either short or long term then we should be able to go for it.



That is basically it.
The owners have not been holding money back , far from it, but we do need to take a serious look at our recruitment strategy because none of the signings last summer bar Can can be classified as value for money.

And to suggest that Lallana , Lovren and Balotelli were purchased with resale value in mind is plain idiotic.
Who is going to pay anywhere near those amounts for these three?

There are things about Rodgers which I really admire , I admire that he likes to play technical football , and his stance that english players can be equally technical as their continental counterparts.

He is honest and forthright and strikes me as someone worthy of being Liverpool Manager for years to come, but these muddled waters of who is buying whom  and frankly outrageous prices for players that clearly are not adding value to the team  needs to stop.

But it would appear that FSG cannot do anything right with some people , and I do wonder if we had spunked 40 or 50 mill on some play, how long it would take before someone would be whinging that we should be spending 60 or 70 or even 80 million on a player , like the team in white which the author clearly feels very inferior to.

I hate every ape I see.
From chimpan-a to chimpan-z,
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me.
Oh, my God, I was wrong,
It was Earth all along.
You finally made a monkey...

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,001
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #126 on: April 10, 2015, 10:53:28 am »
Sorry but that's a terrible article with a bizarrely constructed arguement.
At one point it equates us not 'putting one on' Real Madrid players ... you know like local lads would do... to our diminished force as a global player ... to the awfulness of our current ownership....
Seriously is it written by a grumpy teenager who just hates everything???

I honestly don't know what LFC fans would have FSG do that they're not doing.
Last transfer window we had a 30-40 million net spend (depending on which figures you use) - pushing FFP to the limit, while investing in the stadium 

Our problem isn't FSG - our twin problems are FFP and, more crucially, the fact that although we are a big global player (the 9th richest, one of the best supported etc) we are only the 5th richest in our league and there are 4 CL spots.
They're trying to address that by raising our revenue through the stadium and commercial activity.... but apparently that's bad too...

When it boils down to it their critics seem to want either a sugar daddy (which wouldn't work due to FFP) or a time machine and both arguments are just plain childish

« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 10:55:55 am by JackWard33 »

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,492
  • YNWA
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #127 on: April 10, 2015, 11:00:13 am »
Coates, Ilori, Aspas and Alberto = more than 25M spent. Not a single one of them even play for us this season. What about Lambert, Borini, Balotelli and Lovren? They all struggle to get a game, even when they're fit, our first picks are injured and we struggle as a team. It's 50M spent on those players. Remove all of those seven listed there and think Suarez. Same money. We'd afford the wages too.

Whilst I do agree with the general idea of spending it on less players, it sort of ignores the fact we had a pretty thread bare squad as it was last season and the fact we had a lot less games and fairly good luck with injuries helped up massively. We really haven't been in a position to just go out and spend all our transfer budget on one or two players.

To give an example, take Villa at home at the start of September. Markovic, Lovren and Balotelli started. Lambert and Borini came off the bench. If we'd of bought none of them and just signed one player then we'd of potentially of been looking at a pretty tiny first team squad to pick from.

Offline Dave D

  • Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,678
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #128 on: April 10, 2015, 11:05:29 am »


I'd agree, if they made any money for themselves. Given they haven't I don't think this comment could be anymore wrong.

They're hedge fund managers, every decision they make takes into account of the impact it will have on the resale value and overall profit they make after milking us.



Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,492
  • YNWA
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #129 on: April 10, 2015, 11:07:50 am »
They're hedge fund managers, every decision they make takes into account of the impact it will have on the resale value and overall profit they make after milking us.

That's not really true though, as someone said above they've taken a lot of risks if their only desire is to increase the resale value. A young and unproven manager in Rodgers when could stick with a fan's favourite and club legend. Buying young, expensive, players who could go either way with regards to their development when could easily spend on more proven players.

Offline Dave D

  • Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,678
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #130 on: April 10, 2015, 11:08:14 am »
They have hundreds of millions at stake, just like the first yanks, when that kind of money is at stake they will do everything they can to protect their investment such as hiring people to post on their behalf on internet forums and blogs.
I do despair though at some of our fans who feel some connection with and misguided loyalty towards FSG because once upon a time one of them retweeted one of their tweets, or perhaps replied to their email, or John Henry winked at them from across the car park, or maybe they know someone who met Henry once for a cup of coffee and because he didn't have any horns growing out of his head at the time, he's a 'sound bloke'.

After five years, the majority of fans are concerned about the path we a currently taking.

Offline Bullan

  • I can't believe I ate the whole thing...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,583
  • Speed of The Sound Of Loneliness
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #131 on: April 10, 2015, 11:08:53 am »
They're hedge fund managers, every decision they make takes into account of the impact it will have on the resale value and overall profit they make after milking us.





How are they milking us?
Are they taking millions and millions out of the club?
I hate every ape I see.
From chimpan-a to chimpan-z,
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me.
Oh, my God, I was wrong,
It was Earth all along.
You finally made a monkey...

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,001
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #132 on: April 10, 2015, 11:11:09 am »
They're hedge fund managers, every decision they make takes into account of the impact it will have on the resale value and overall profit they make after milking us.




you want to provide some actual evidence of this or no?
how much money have they 'milked' the club for so far?

Offline spider-neil

  • Can watch 30 games in a day. He's not Spidey - he's Sway!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,306
  • does whatever a spider can, spins a web any size
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #133 on: April 10, 2015, 11:18:57 am »
You read articles like that and you picture a baby mashing at the keys screaming 'waa! waa! waa!'.

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,492
  • YNWA
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #134 on: April 10, 2015, 11:22:17 am »
Transfer Committee???

Only the cat is on it.

Offline Bullan

  • I can't believe I ate the whole thing...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,583
  • Speed of The Sound Of Loneliness
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #135 on: April 10, 2015, 11:25:30 am »
They have hundreds of millions at stake, just like the first yanks, when that kind of money is at stake they will do everything they can to protect their investment such as hiring people to post on their behalf on internet forums and blogs.
I do despair though at some of our fans who feel some connection with and misguided loyalty towards FSG because once upon a time one of them retweeted one of their tweets, or perhaps replied to their email, or John Henry winked at them from across the car park, or maybe they know someone who met Henry once for a cup of coffee and because he didn't have any horns growing out of his head at the time, he's a 'sound bloke'.

After five years, the majority of fans are concerned about the path we a currently taking.


Dude if someone from FSG ran over your cat, I am truly sorry, but this is just borderline crazy talk.
Yes there are millions at stake , that's the nature of investments , they have value and one does not invest with that value decreasing in mind.

But your statement about them milking us dry is just plain wrong and after that we went through with the cowboys it is highly offensive.
I hate every ape I see.
From chimpan-a to chimpan-z,
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me.
Oh, my God, I was wrong,
It was Earth all along.
You finally made a monkey...

Offline Johnnyboy1973

  • ★★★ Never, ever, bloody anything ever! ★★★
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,650
  • Up the piss boiling, asthmatic Reds!!!
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #136 on: April 10, 2015, 11:33:42 am »
They're not milking us they're just shite in the transfer market.

If it was me, I'd be fuming at the limited success with regards to transfers.

Intrigued to see if anything will change in the summer.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline elpistolero7

  • Biggest waste of space in history.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,057
  • What's in a name anyway? No, I'm not bitter.
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #137 on: April 10, 2015, 11:40:48 am »
They're hedge fund managers, every decision they make takes into account of the impact it will have on the resale value and overall profit they make after milking us.

Certainly. As hedge fund managers I'm sure they understand the nuances of this investment. Its clearly best served long term. A 60,000 seater, European football, and making use of the massive name and following of the club. Do that, and they get big, big money back on their investment given that TV revenues are going through the roof.

Not being in the CL year on year hurts FSG as well. They haven't shyed away from spending money. Silly money, yes. But you don't need that to succeed. Plenty of examples about supporting that.

This stuff about them milking us is absolutely hilarious. If they'd pocketed the Suarez money like the last yanks did with Alonso's and Mascherano's, then you'd have a leg to stand on. As it stands, we sold a player for 75 million. We needed numbers as the squad was light, went for primarily youth as that's the model...fair enough, and the kids are alright! Then we went for experience in the areas we needed most help in immediately. Then we spunked 65 million of which all we got was Lallana whose half decent.  Ended up spending 30-40 million on top of sales. Clearly the Anfield redevelopment is happening. In what fucking universe as they milking us? :butt

Have a look around at some of the other owners in the division.

Arsene Wenger basically had to sell his best players year on year so that stadium debt was paid off. Thing is, he actually knew how to sign players.

Aston Villa are being milked. Newcastle are being milked. We've got really good owners, they're not sugar daddies, but sensible investors. Its what we all wanted isn't it? Some of you lot would only be satisfied  with Roman/Sheikh type owners. You say you don't want that, but crave for those type of transfers. Wonder how Atletico and Dortmund have won titles regularly over the last 5 years. They must be spending far more than us!
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 11:46:25 am by torbenpiechnik19 »
What belongs to you, but is used by others?

Offline L666KOP

  • Wants everyone to fuck off. Especially you. Yes YOU! Too Tender for Tinder. Would swallow his knob on a genuine fuck up.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,116
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #138 on: April 10, 2015, 12:00:40 pm »
They're not milking us they're just shite in the transfer market.

If it was me, I'd be fuming at the limited success with regards to transfers.

Intrigued to see if anything will change in the summer.

And with that we could probably save the mods the headache of another circular thread of whining and discontent.

There really isn't a great deal you can add.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline JJ Red

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,057
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #139 on: April 10, 2015, 12:01:38 pm »
They're not milking us they're just shite in the transfer market.

If it was me, I'd be fuming at the limited success with regards to transfers.

Intrigued to see if anything will change in the summer.

We've seen glimpses of the tougher John Henry in the past and i just can't see how someone isn't held responsible for last summer.

I would imagine a change of some sort will be made (not Rodgers obviously) which may mean a bit more dirty laundry aired in public.

Offline Gerrard#1

  • Playing goalie would combat his decreasing mobility, and vastly improve distribution at the back. Somebody's watching me.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,663
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #140 on: April 10, 2015, 12:04:03 pm »
Yeah, last summer, the likes of Tadic, Pelle , Alderwield just as a very small example all went to Southampton on extortionate wages didn't they? Insane transfer fees too.

If we'd got them instead of Lallana, Lovren and Balo, we'd be top 4. Our transfers were that pathetic.

And if we were top 4, there'd be fuck all complaints about anyone, let alone the owners, who have done a pretty good job of it thus far.
Pelle and Tadic are average after having a purple patch earlier on. As a result Southampton have been relying on clean sheets to pick up wins. Has Pelle even scored this year?
Quote from: jillc
If you ask Gerrard #1 he'll probably be able to tell us who we're getting. I hear he is good with the crystal ball.

Quote from: Gerrard#1
Coutinho is our best player he will be world class one day and will end up playing for Barca or Real.

Offline DonkeyWan

  • ker. Football Genius, Generously gives Young Jürgen pointers to help him improve.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,452
  • I never met a man who wasn't...
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #141 on: April 10, 2015, 12:13:19 pm »
All this transfer talk has totally missed the point of the article. You can discuss the merits of the summer transfers all you like, but what this (truly stupid) article is suggesting is as follows:

"A transfer policy that’s all about unearthing talent that can be resold at a profit."

That's the crux of the argument made by the author there. Not "should we have bought more expensive players", rather "we are buying inexpensive players to rebadge and sell them". Which is bullshit.

Also, his stadium complaints are hilarious, on the one hand he wants a better quality fan and on the other an 80,000 seater stadium or some such... and who is gonna go to this new stadium, does he envision it full of local working class heroes? 80,000 every fortnight in a city with two PL teams and a population of 465,000? Man is deluded.

No, this article is shit. Utter shit. Total shit. Delusional, contradictory, rabble rousing shit.
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline robgomm

  • He just can't get enough of Luis Suarez.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,087
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #142 on: April 10, 2015, 12:16:25 pm »
I think as a basis for a transfer strategy we have it right with three caveats:

1) We need a couple of players who really elevate the squad, which means that now we have numbers and a squad capable of at least putting up a top four challenge we need to look beyond the basic strategy of young, undervalued talent.

2) If you decide on a strategy, back it up. That means getting a player like Salah instead of dallying. It also means tying up players like Henderson and Sterling. But as a note to this, it is worth emphasising the value of a player as FSG see it and so if they felt the fee for someone was overvalued then they won't pay it. But if that is the case, get out of the deal and move on to the next target rather than haggling for what seems like an age.

3) The committee and the manager are not joined up. Balotelli is the prime example and it's arguably cost us half a season.

Lots to improve in my view, although it's worth adding that these views are based on limited info and we simply don't know exactly how things are structured and the intricacies of every deal. So my views here have that qualification.

Offline elpistolero7

  • Biggest waste of space in history.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,057
  • What's in a name anyway? No, I'm not bitter.
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #143 on: April 10, 2015, 12:30:00 pm »
Pelle and Tadic are average after having a purple patch earlier on. As a result Southampton have been relying on clean sheets to pick up wins. Has Pelle even scored this year?

Tadic isn't average by any means.

And sure, Pelle has only scored once this year, but he has twice the amount of league goals our top scorer does.
What belongs to you, but is used by others?

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,395
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #144 on: April 10, 2015, 12:32:33 pm »
They had zero affiliation with this club before they bought it, and still don't. Not sure the situations are comparable. I'm convinced they will be gone in the next 10 years, rest assured J. W. Henry will still own the Redsoxs in 10 years time. Business opportunity is all Liverpool Football Club was to them, Redsox is a different ball game(no pun intended). By no means are they as bad as other owners but they still have a considerable amount to learn in trying to bring this club back to where it belongs.

To a billionaire, football isn't a business opportunity. Seriously. Even the biggest football clubs are financially dwarfed by remotely successful technology companies, let alone the really big companies - industrial giants, oil companies and banks. Mike Ashley might make a few quid selling Newcastle shirts in his own shops, but an American billionaire isn't in this for the money, because he'd be better off investing $10m in every tech startup just on the off chance that one becomes the next Facebook.



Stop whining : https://spiritofshankly.com/ : https://thefsa.org.uk/join/ : https://reclaimourgame.com/
The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

Offline Gerrard#1

  • Playing goalie would combat his decreasing mobility, and vastly improve distribution at the back. Somebody's watching me.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,663
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #145 on: April 10, 2015, 12:48:01 pm »
Tadic isn't average by any means.

And sure, Pelle has only scored once this year, but he has twice the amount of league goals our top scorer does.


Tadic is around Lallana's level of talent. Average by a top clubs standards but will stand out in a small pond like Southampton. Pelle's start to the season was a purple patch. I don't see him replicating it again. Sturridge would have double his goal total if he was fit this entire season.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 12:53:44 pm by Gerrard#1 »
Quote from: jillc
If you ask Gerrard #1 he'll probably be able to tell us who we're getting. I hear he is good with the crystal ball.

Quote from: Gerrard#1
Coutinho is our best player he will be world class one day and will end up playing for Barca or Real.

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,001
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #146 on: April 10, 2015, 01:28:45 pm »
To a billionaire, football isn't a business opportunity. Seriously. Even the biggest football clubs are financially dwarfed by remotely successful technology companies, let alone the really big companies - industrial giants, oil companies and banks. Mike Ashley might make a few quid selling Newcastle shirts in his own shops, but an American billionaire isn't in this for the money, because he'd be better off investing $10m in every tech startup just on the off chance that one becomes the next Facebook.





Totally.
To argue FSG don't have a passion for sports as well as business brains is a bit silly / paranoid / binary thinking
However that argument will cut no ice whatsoever with a fan base that continues to believe the answer is to 'spend big on top talent' (whatever that means) and that there is no way the club can benefit from commercially minded owners

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,388
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #147 on: April 10, 2015, 01:33:48 pm »
Curious article. Disagree on stadium willy waving. Can argue the toss over transfer policy, but I'd suggest buying just the three players would have left us ridiculously short this season. The 'salary cap' is a hard one based on how much money the club takes in. But you can argue the toss around that whether X player deserves Y part of that. Barnes was moving to a club which regularly won league titles. We've not won the league in the lifetime of some of our support, and in more recent memory have struggled to even qualify for the Champions League. Comparisons to the Manchester clubs need to be made with comparisons on how much money they're taking in to pay over the odds to take players in.

It just seems misguided. Yes, nostalgia. And, yes, the modern game stinks in many, many ways. And the commercialism and endless chasing of every last corporate pound is ugly. But those aren't FSG's fault. They're playing the ownership game as it is.

Sorry, just, curious piece which seems more about disenchantment with the modern game and trying to tie it to the current owners. Which is fair enough if you're willing to address the consequences of heading away from the commercialism and bollocks.


Pretty much sums it up for me.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline kcbworth

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,158
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #148 on: April 10, 2015, 01:45:30 pm »
Sounds almost word for word the same shit that was being repeated by people under hicks and gillet. If you have a genuine concern then you should air those views.

It's amazing just how much of the point you are missing. I'm siprised you don't sign your posts of ynwa

If you genuinely see a comparison between what we have now and H&G then I despair, I really do :s

How much of the point am I missing, seriously. Come on educate me, please!?!

You've been on this thread from the start all the way through the night.  A 10/11 hour stint.  Do you not sleep?!  Even if you're in the US it must be the wee small hours by now & sun up in a couple of hours.  Get some kip.

Australia :)

Offline walshys_mullet

  • Aka walshys_mullet. Thinks manager is a coward. Only posts in match threads every other week due to rotation. We suspect this is John Aldridge or Andy Gray posting under a pseudonym.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,615
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #149 on: April 10, 2015, 01:54:40 pm »
Would this article have been written if we won our last two league games?




Hang on, if we'd had a better bench to call upon during the season instead of loanees we might have won the fucking thing!

theres two sides to every story.
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later."

The Great 'Should have been Sir' Bob Paisley

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,484
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #150 on: April 10, 2015, 02:01:42 pm »


Australia :)

Only a 4 hour break then & back on it!  Above and beyond.

Offline markedasred

  • Knowing me, Knowing you... ahaaa!!! Resident Large Canine.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,463
  • No Murdoch in our house
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #151 on: April 10, 2015, 02:15:26 pm »
For me, the article was borderline ironic on the back of just returning less than 48 hours ago from Blackburn, owned by the billionaire Venkys. Their owner drives around in a Hummer with a gold plated gun in his holster, and can't get them above midtable championship, not allowed to spend much in the summer, expecting to lose their two best players.
 We appear to be spending up to the line of FFP, and are in most top ten lists of everything positive about modern football. The clubs income is growing at a very impressive rate, and we do not have the leveraged loan of the red mancs. From what I can see, the only club that has honestly stolen a march on us is Chelsea, purely on the basis of having bought up a colossal amount of young players that they then rent out and cherry pick for themselves if they turn great. We had that enormous quantity of players on our books under Rafa, and we did not go to the very small amount of trouble to get one person in who spent all day on the phone letting clubs around Europe and the championship know that we had 60+ player loan opportunities for sale.

Real Madrid are dishonest, Barca are on a buying ban, Paris Saint-Germain  and Man City have been heavily sanctioned, so now get looked at under a magnifying glass every time they spend, and the latter could very easily end up below us this season. Can't see any model clubs in Italy or any other continent in the world. How many football clubs are there in the world and how many of them are better run than us? 0.0001% or less maybe?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 02:31:25 pm by markedasred »
"For those of you watching in black and white, Liverpool are the team with the ball"

Offline Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,548
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #152 on: April 10, 2015, 02:22:21 pm »
Whilst I do agree with the general idea of spending it on less players, it sort of ignores the fact we had a pretty thread bare squad as it was last season and the fact we had a lot less games and fairly good luck with injuries helped up massively. We really haven't been in a position to just go out and spend all our transfer budget on one or two players.

To give an example, take Villa at home at the start of September. Markovic, Lovren and Balotelli started. Lambert and Borini came off the bench. If we'd of bought none of them and just signed one player then we'd of potentially of been looking at a pretty tiny first team squad to pick from.

First, my argument is mainly directed at the article and those saying we have no money to compete. I believe we do.

Yes, we'd need squad depth. But we could have solved that too. My point is, we're not running this tight budget that we like to say. It comes from both the club management and from people critisising the club. If we had a tight budget, we wouldn't have this situation. Things would look very different.

We could have had Coates, Ilori, Alberto and Aspas playing for us. Then there would have been little point adding Lovren, Balotelli, Borini and Lambert. But we've got all 8 players (let be some on loan), worth ~75M, doing the job that could be done by the first four, signed for ~25M. We have been reluctant to use Lovren & Co, so it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Had we gone with that route, we could have had 50M to spend on a single player. Depth and quality. We would actually have had 4+1 options, rather than 4. We could even take half of that sum and get a very decent player (that is, sell Lovren, Balotelli, Borini and Lambert for a total of 25M and use it to buy one first team player). This is realistic. It's very much do-able, but we, for some reason, never want to take that step. Instead, we have eight players with no clear role and we wonder why we can't have money to spend.

People like to talk about how FSG don't invest, or how little money we have. There are simple solutions to the problems, solutions that would allow us to improve. Without pumping in more money. Instead we allow the problems to grow. We blame it on FSG. It's convenient and it's an easy way out. But if FSG added another 50M, I doubt it would change anything. We'd make the same mistakes again. We only need to look at Lovren, Borini, Balotelli and Lambert. There we have those 50M. We overspend, add players, keep some that we have no intention of using and then complain we need more money. Because we're repeating basic mistakes. And we try and say we're cautious, clever and we think long term. We're hiding mistakes. And then we're trying to say it's all because we have bad owners. I don't think that's fair.   

We all know that we have a TC. We know we have (big, or even huge) problems with it. But, if we take a couple of steps back and view our situation from the outside, what would we see? We'd see owners that have improved our finances. They're rebuilding the stadium, something we have talked about for an eternity, without progress. Now it happens. And then we'd see a team that finished 2nd, invested heavily and went backwards. That wouldn't be classed as the fault of the owners. It would be classed as serious problems on the football side. Be it the TC's or the manager's fault. But it wouldn't be seen as a fault of the owners. That side however, is rather unpleasant for the supporters who like Rodgers and/or the football men at the club (including the TC here). Because that side of the story says that the owners and money men are doing their bit. The rest are not. So where would an outsider recommend the club to change leadership? The red alert light would be above the people in the TC, manager included.

By all means, we can have a go at FSG for increasing ticket prices. Have a go at them for not listening to how the atmosphere could be improved. These could well be fair arguments. Complaining about resources available - not so much.   

If we were running a tight budget, what would we see? First, we wouldn't have ~25M worth of players off on loan. They'd be here and often included in the match day squad. We couldn't afford having them on loan. Nor would we be reluctant to use another 50M worth of players. We'd have no such luxuary. Instead we'd have a whole line of Academy players involved, providing depth. The likes of Brannagan and Williams would have played quite a few games. Wisdom and Ilori would have played. Ibe would have played a lot more and it's likely that Origi would have been brought in this season. Etc.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline kcbworth

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,158
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #153 on: April 10, 2015, 02:40:04 pm »
Only a 4 hour break then & back on it!  Above and beyond.

And for Friday night drinks so suitably buzzing now :wave

Offline SmallwoodRed

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • remember april 1989
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #154 on: April 10, 2015, 02:45:40 pm »
Curious article. Disagree on stadium willy waving. Can argue the toss over transfer policy, but I'd suggest buying just the three players would have left us ridiculously short this season. The 'salary cap' is a hard one based on how much money the club takes in. But you can argue the toss around that whether X player deserves Y part of that. Barnes was moving to a club which regularly won league titles. We've not won the league in the lifetime of some of our support, and in more recent memory have struggled to even qualify for the Champions League. Comparisons to the Manchester clubs need to be made with comparisons on how much money they're taking in to pay over the odds to take players in.

It just seems misguided. Yes, nostalgia. And, yes, the modern game stinks in many, many ways. And the commercialism and endless chasing of every last corporate pound is ugly. But those aren't FSG's fault. They're playing the ownership game as it is.

Sorry, just, curious piece which seems more about disenchantment with the modern game and trying to tie it to the current owners. Which is fair enough if you're willing to address the consequences of heading away from the commercialism and bollocks.


Totally agree - OP should read the article by Tomkins about the reality of transfers and their success rate.
NB -interesting thing with Barnes was that why we didnt get round to signing him much earlier, certainly after 84 fa cup final or 86 WC. We may well have had 2 more league titles had that been the case ..

Offline DaveCharlie

  • RAWK Hidden Gem #1
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,309
  • Former Formbyite, in Australia, was back, now NZ
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #155 on: April 10, 2015, 02:59:51 pm »
And for Friday night drinks so suitably buzzing now :wave

You and me, pal. Off to bed now though where we can dream of owners with money but without money, that take risks but don't take risks, that build stadiums but don't build stadiums, that buy players but don't buy players. #LFCFamily

Offline penga

  • What you get if you cross Pingu with Jenga.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,662
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #156 on: April 10, 2015, 03:17:48 pm »
People need to realise the success of LFC means profit which goes hand in hand with FSG's objectives. The more successful we are the more revenue we can generate and hopefully get back towards being a superpower. It's really that simple. They aren't trying to "milk the club", they are trying to grow it but unfortunately but expectedly FSG and the people they've hired have made a lot of mistakes including Rodgers. They are trying to do it in a sustainable way, trying harder to develop youth and building the stadium up. Of course people will be unhappy with ticket prices but unfortunately that is the general trend of modern football and I don't think we are the worst at it.

Unfortunately we might seem to be in an Arsenal like state while they were getting their new stadium done - they had negative transfer spend for several years but still competed by being smart and developing youth. We do spend more than they did during those years but we haven't done it smart enough yet. You look at Arsenal now and they are ready to become a superpower again, they don't have to sell and they can go for bigger targets and I'm pretty sure are debt free and/or making profit. A good sustainable model not a sugardaddy model which would be curbed these days due to FFP anyway as we still don't make enough money to spend big yet.

I'm not quite sure why people are even expecting FSG to be owners that would be only in it for the pure enjoyment or old school values of the game, they saw an opportunity to take over an asset that had the potential to be rebuilt into something very powerful - success on the pitch is key to that if they want to make real money out of it. They've had to work much harder than the previous regimes to secure all these sponsorships in order to even allow our club to financially compete to a decent level. I highly doubt they will try to sell LFC anytime soon.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 03:22:49 pm by penga »

Offline DonkeyWan

  • ker. Football Genius, Generously gives Young Jürgen pointers to help him improve.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,452
  • I never met a man who wasn't...
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #157 on: April 10, 2015, 03:22:41 pm »

People like to talk about how FSG don't invest, or how little money we have. 


Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline Passmaster Molby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,127
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #158 on: April 10, 2015, 03:56:53 pm »
As has been said earlier, the only real issue I would have with FSG is the naive way they seem to go about their business in the transfer market and our lack of signing proven top class players. Saying they are milking the club or not spending enough is just ridiculous. The problem is we have spent money badly in the transfer market and this needs addressing quickly.

This summer has to be about building a team and not bulking out an already engorged squad of players.

Offline Dave D

  • Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,678
Re: Good article from TAW on FSG
« Reply #159 on: April 10, 2015, 04:18:49 pm »


I've no idea who shewore are, i'm guessing they're some kind of fashion website? Those figures are a bit old now plus they'e got our 08/09 & 09/10 seasons mixed up. If they've made a mistake there, then they've probably made more mistakes somewhere else.

We have a lot of fans that will retweet or post any old shite without checking it first.

Many of our fans are unable to tell the difference between a well run club and a poorly run one. Each announcement is greeted with fanfare and a clear sign that we're on the right track.

I'm sure we have a few fans that will tell me they have no problem with these quotes.

Quote
"We see our competitors not just as Chelsea or Manchester City and Manchester United but we see Barcelona and Real Madrid as teams that are iconic and playing good football.
"We know our competitors are working hard. We need to work just as hard and be just as smart.
"We are in the revenue generating business because the more revenue you make the better the team can be. In that respect the two are similar."

Quote
"That is only allowable operating within your own means - they are the rules we have all signed up to - and this is absolutely vital in us being able to compete.
"We should be pleased and fans should take comfort from the fact commercially this club is right at the top of teams in that regard.
"In the modern game we talk about financial fair play and the ability to operate in transfer markets, and a big part of doing what we want to achieve here is generating revenue which supports what we do on the pitch.

Quote
"we have the funds to compete with any team in the world"

Quote
“I am pleased to report a positive set of results which confirms the healthy financial position the Club now finds itself in and is a reflection of the prudent and measured manner in which we operate.
“The Club benefits from a supportive owner and is financially stable. This gives us a strong platform from which to grow, both on and off the pitch, a result of which means, as we move forward, we are able to net spend on the playing squad and invest in other areas of the business.
“The most pleasing aspect in this set of accounts has been the growth in our commercial revenue and it has been our strongest year yet in that respect. With our commitment to keeping ticket prices affordable for our supporters growing our commercial income has been crucial. The deals we struck with our two main sponsors, together with a stronger focus on our commercial operations, have helped us achieve this growth.
“We believe financial stability will deliver positive on-field results for the Club.”