Topic: Thread for Sensible Discussion about Klopp

[spider-neil]

How many goals did BD concede in Klopp's first season?

[LFC when it suits]

After Klopp's talk about the defence I'm now wondering if he'll stick with Skrtel till the summer and then bring in his own guy.

Maybe Illori has a future here as well as he has all the attributes to play a high line.

[rickardinho1]

I'd say Gomez is a year or two away from being able to play cb in the league right now mate, ideally he could do with a loan to a top championship club with conditions set to play him or a lower half prem side or hell even to Germany for a season to someone like Mainz, bloke needs games at his age to learn, Can is much more ready to play right now, although both look good ones for the future

When Klopp joined Dortmund his first CB pairing was two 19 year olds. Gomez already played well at Arsenal against Sanchez et al as well as at Bordeaux as RCB against a team who drew 2-2 with PSG. He's not a little kid who needs games.

[LFC when it suits]

My point is, Klopp should take the short term hit of restructuring the back line with players able to hold a high line rather than mulling along with the same problems that prevent us pushing up the pitch for the short term gain of immediate results. 

This. I am willing to write off this season if it means implementing his ideas. I just hope as a fanbase, we can be patient.

[Kennys from heaven]

On the one hand this makes a whole lot of sense and seemingly shows a huge statement of intent and as such, is massively exciting...

On the other, its also a big risk in a number of areas. The club is banking on Klopp and Klopp needs to deliver or his reputation will be in tatters. We've (rightly or wrongly) ditched a manager not even a quarter into the season with a whole lot of players that are new to the club still to make their mark. You could argue that it's a blank sheet for all, but with a whole change of backroom staff (again) my fear is that given the apathy/lack of understanding/overwhelming desire for winning something/completely unforgiving nature of the fanbase, if results are not as they want, then any such enthusiasm will be very short lived.

For the club it's way overdue for the delivery of a major trophy - and for that I mean the league - and for FSG, this is in reality the last throw of the dice in getting this right or any last vestiges of credibility or understanding will be well and truly burned away.

This is probably one of the most important appointments in the history of Liverpool  Football Club IMHO. We've got one of the hottest managerial talents in the World now, one that is universally respected, but he needs to hit the ground running.

[spider-neil]

The top two candidates for the job were Ancelotti and Klopp. Let that sink in. We have become too pessimistic. We fail to realise that we are still one of the biggest clubs around.

For players I think there is less of a connection but for managers, Liverpool were on top of the world when they were young. Hiring Hodgson was nothing short of a disgrace when this club could have aimed so much higher.

[cdav]

2. Which senior players won't fit in? - Sturridge will badly struggle to stay fit with the intensity required from Klopp, Lucas - don't think he has the pace or discipline to play that system, Skrtel - can't play a high line - will lose out to Lovren or Gomez, Coutinho could find Firminho preferred over him and if the Barca interest is real could be sold to give Klopp a big rebuilding kitty, Mignolet - he just isn't a good enough keeper

I've been thinking along similar lines regarding Coutinho- it's going to be interesting to see what Klopp does with him. He is so talented and can play in multiple positions, but I'm not sure where he will fit in as I don't think he is productive enough to fit in the front line and then the midfield will probably be restructured with, as an early guess before transfers, Henderson and Lucas as a 2.

I also agree on the striker situation- who will we go with between Sturridge and Benteke, or will we play two upfront. Neither are great at pressing, can we afford to have 2 players upfront who don't? It then comes down to what Klopp wants from his front man, the movement and pace of Sturridge or the hold up play of Benteke.

[BeautifulGame91]

Full transcript of the interview

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/jurgen-klopps-first-interview-liverpool-6601543

[spider-neil]

This. I am willing to write off this season if it means implementing his ideas. I just hope as a fanbase, we can be patient.

After listening to the interview I am inclined to think Klopp wont change the back line but instead will give the back line more cover and then properly deal with the problem at a later stage.

[spider-neil]

When Klopp joined Dortmund his first CB pairing was two 19 year olds.

Seriously?! 

[Smellytrabs]

After Klopp's talk about the defence I'm now wondering if he'll stick with Skrtel till the summer and then bring in his own guy.

I think Sakho and Skrtel are the only two centre halves we can trust week in week out. Gomez may well become a boss player, but it's a lot to ask of the kid at the moment.

We need great strength in depth in this position. If Skrtel is deemed unsuitable for the way Klopp is going to play, he may well be replaced by a new face in the 1st team line up, but I think it would be foolish to let him go altogether. We need 4 capable centre halves in the squad.

[rickardinho1]

Maybe Illori has a future here as well as he has all the attributes to play a high line.

Serious question, does anyone know of any better young CB's than Ilori who have all the attributes to play a high line (pace, good on the ball, etc)?

As far as I could tell in the U21 Euros Ilori and his CB partner (Oliveira?) were the standout CB's at the tournament. In fact, Portugal didn't concede a single goal with Ilori on the pitch (they conceded 1 when he was injured in the semi iirc). He's still a top talent even though people underrate him here, and still very young for a CB.

[LFC when it suits]

For players I think there is less of a connection but for managers, Liverpool were on top of the world when they were young. Hiring Hodgson was nothing short of a disgrace when this club could have aimed so much higher.

Maybe for players that is the case as they think short term and want CL footie. Not for the managers. When Ancelotti thinks of Liverpool he thinks of the club that he battle with on the biggest stage of club football. You can see the respect that Klopp has for the tradition and culture of this club when he came to Anfield with Dortmund. A top manager is the first step. The rest will come after if we ALL believe.

[DG]

How many goals did BD concede in Klopp's first season?

37 in 34, but that was only second to Schalke. So you have to say he faired well.

[rickardinho1]

Seriously?! 

Hummels and Subotic, who are both 26 now (their birthdays are like 4 days apart too haha)

Imagine if we did that with Gomez and Ilori ... Though I'd gladly take Sakho + either of those two as a pairing.

[007.lankyguy]

If thats the case then can we really keep that pressing going over a season? I read that Klopp criticised a lack of a winter break, so surely that means some level of adjustment over here? He does have a big squad to choose from and could that even mean he becomes a manager that rotates a lot.

This will be one of the interesting adjustments he might have to make and yes, I think it's possible that over a season we may tire a bit. This season may work a little differently simply because Rodgers always starts seasons slow and tries to peak later on. Because of that, the effects of Klopp's pressing may not have as much of an effect on our overall fitness because we haven't tried to start the season as intensely as he probably would ordinarily want. That means there should be less tiredness in the legs come the last few months of the season.

It might be that we'll have to wait till next season to properly answer your questions but it will be interesting to see how he gets his template to work without a winter break.

[LFC when it suits]

On the one hand this makes a whole lot of sense and seemingly shows a huge statement of intent and as such, is massively exciting...

On the other, its also a big risk in a number of areas. The club is banking on Klopp and Klopp needs to deliver or his reputation will be in tatters. We've (rightly or wrongly) ditched a manager not even a quarter into the season with a whole lot of players that are new to the club still to make their mark. You could argue that it's a blank sheet for all, but with a whole change of backroom staff (again) my fear is that given the apathy/lack of understanding/overwhelming desire for winning something/completely unforgiving nature of the fanbase, if results are not as they want, then any such enthusiasm will be very short lived.

For the club it's way overdue for the delivery of a major trophy - and for that I mean the league - and for FSG, this is in reality the last throw of the dice in getting this right or any last vestiges of credibility or understanding will be well and truly burned away.

This is probably one of the most important appointments in the history of Liverpool  Football Club IMHO. We've got one of the hottest managerial talents in the World now, one that is universally respected, but he needs to hit the ground running.

This is the problem that I fear. That people will think that he needs to hit the ground running. What he really needs is time to do his job without all the pressure of expectations. We need patience and we need to believe.

[spider-neil]

37 in 34, but that was only second to Schalke. So you have to say he faired well.

With two 19 year olds. Amazing. I wonder if Jurgen will be brave enough to play Can or Gomez in a back 4 if he deems Skrtel can't play in the manner that he needs.

[rickardinho1]

Maybe for players that is the case as they think short term and want CL footie. Not for the managers. When Ancelotti thinks of Liverpool he thinks of the club that he battle with on the biggest stage of club football. You can see the respect that Klopp has for the tradition and culture of this club when he came to Anfield with Dortmund. A top manager is the first step. The rest will come after if we ALL believe.

Ancelotti met us in not one, but two CL finals. And they were within the last decade, which isn't that long ago for a manager who's been managing for 20 years

[BeautifulGame91]

37 in 34, but that was only second to Schalke. So you have to say he faired well.

The season before BVB conceded 60+ goals I think .So he definitely did a great job in shoring up the defense

[spider-neil]

So Jurgen definitely trusts young players if he feels they are good enough. That is good news.

[spider-neil]

The positive for me is 13/14 was (people can argue with me all they like but it's my opinion) the greatest year I've ever had supporting Liverpool but that style of play (winning the ball high up the pitch and breaking with pace)happened because Brendan wanted to maximise the two clinical strikers on his books. Brendan's default position is 'death by football' possession. Klopp's default style of play is more akin to 13/14 and that makes me very excited for the future.

[Fordy]

On the one hand this makes a whole lot of sense and seemingly shows a huge statement of intent and as such, is massively exciting...

On the other, its also a big risk in a number of areas. The club is banking on Klopp and Klopp needs to deliver or his reputation will be in tatters. We've (rightly or wrongly) ditched a manager not even a quarter into the season with a whole lot of players that are new to the club still to make their mark. You could argue that it's a blank sheet for all, but with a whole change of backroom staff (again) my fear is that given the apathy/lack of understanding/overwhelming desire for winning something/completely unforgiving nature of the fanbase, if results are not as they want, then any such enthusiasm will be very short lived.

For the club it's way overdue for the delivery of a major trophy - and for that I mean the league - and for FSG, this is in reality the last throw of the dice in getting this right or any last vestiges of credibility or understanding will be well and truly burned away.

This is probably one of the most important appointments in the history of Liverpool  Football Club IMHO. We've got one of the hottest managerial talents in the World now, one that is universally respected, but he needs to hit the ground running.

No he doesn't need to hit the ground running at all.What he needs is time.

We don't have a Messi, Ronaldo or Suraez who you can say gave the ball too and let them produce magic. All our players need to improve and serious work required on them.

He is left with Rodgers and the TC players and will need time to develop his our squad.

Also in his interview he talked about defensive work while Rodgers was all about attack and our defence was poor. Klopp and Rodgers view on football seems a little different and Klopp will require time to get his view across to to players.

Klopp requires time and for us to get Anfield bouncing again. Let's not put pressure on a world class manager for no reason.

[rickardinho1]

So Jurgen definitely trusts young players if he feels they are good enough. That is good news.

You didn't know that before? His Dortmund team was built entirely from cheap young players!

Kagawa cost €250,000... Hummels €4m... Etc

He's going to be such a boss with this young team.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

Maybe Illori has a future here as well as he has all the attributes to play a high line.

The most important thing if we play a high line is having a keeper, willing and capable of sweeping behind & coming off his line.  Mignolet is either going to have to prove he can, or I think he's in more danger than any defender.

Pace is not that important in a high line.  Hyypia and Carragher did it under Benitez one season with Reina sweeping behind.

I think Klopp will still with Skrtel personally.  I also think Skrtel might look a lot better under different instructions, like many players.

[Romeo Sensini]

With two 19 year olds. Amazing. I wonder if Jurgen will be brave enough to play Can or Gomez in a back 4 if he deems Skrtel can't play in the manner that he needs.

This is only slightly true. Hummels wrecked his ankle prior to the Winterpause and missed the entire 2nd half of the season. He only played about 10 matches at CB that season. Felipe Santana took his spot, who was in his early 20s to be fair. Subotic played every BuLi match, but he was already trained under Klopp at Mainz for a couple seasons, so he already had an understanding of his system prior to coming into Dortmund.

[Keita Success]

Wonder where Ings is in all this, and Benteke

[jepovic]

As for the players, I think we could be up for surprises. I do wonder about Benteke and Sturridge. Individually, they are not the pressing forwards Klopp prefers. Together they form a classic 442 striker pair which Klopp also doesn't prefer.

I hope Klopp doesn't try to change too much too quickly. It's important to start getting results quite early, to build a momentum and positive vibe in the whole club. Results are important to be able to attract good players.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Wonder where Ings is in all this, and Benteke

Didn't Klopp try and sign Benteke?

[jepovic]

I think Klopp will still with Skrtel personally.  I also think Skrtel might look a lot better under different instructions, like many players.

Lucas and Skrtel have survived 4 managers so far, with different styles of football. I wouldn't write them off yet. They are probably not the type of players that Klopp would buy, but they are very good which also matters.

[007.lankyguy]

Didn't Klopp try and sign Benteke?

His team scouted him but that was it I think.

[steveeastend]

Will he start his tenure here with trying to solve the problem that he had with Dortmund, in that his team struggled to break down deep lying sides?

His pressing tactic will probably work against the better sides but what about most of the games at home?

Good point, very good point!!!

[Smellytrabs]

Maybe Illori has a future here as well as he has all the attributes to play a high line.

Let's not forget that we also still have Wisdom on the books. Surprised we've been loaning this lad out, I think he has real talent. Maybe under Klopp he will come back and develop further.

[socrates the sophist]

After listening to the interview I am inclined to think Klopp wont change the back line but instead will give the back line more cover and then properly deal with the problem at a later stage.

I agree. But we have to reconsider whether Liverpool has "a problem" at the back at all. There was a masked criticism of Rodgers in the interview, many missed it but I think its the most important thing in the interview.

"The first thing, always, maybe in life, you need to have a stable defence. That's the first thing, always. Because you can only stay confident in a game when you know not each offensive move of the other team is a goal... can we be the hardest team to beat in the world?"

If you think about this quote, it is the opposite of what Rodgers did. He had Suarez went on to buy Sturridge and Coutinho. When Rodgers lost Suarez, he went out and tried to find more quality players at the top rather than changing the system to solidify defense.

Klopp is arguing it should be the other way around. Make sure the team is tough to break down and work your way up from there. This to me says that he will look to try and play safe football with a focus on cleansheets.

May be the problem is not that we have a bad defense, its that our focus on attack has deprived our defenders of protection. That is the main problem in the team.

I don't expect to see a team pressing high against Tottenham or Rubin. I'm expecting a team who defends deep and gets the cleansheet.

[Smellytrabs]

May be the problem is not that we have a bad defense, its that our focus on attack has deprived our defenders of protection. That is the main problem in the team.

Over the last 3 and a bit years, I have never thought that high amount we concede was predominantly down to the personnel in defence, it has always been about how the team has been structured.

[socrates the sophist]

Over the last 3 and a bit years, I have never thought that high amount we concede was predominantly down to the personnel in defense, it has always been about how the team has been structured.

I agree 1000% with you. Our work off the ball under Rodgers in my opinion was one of the main reasons why we conceded.

[steveeastend]

Here's a question for you... What will Klopp do to change players and develop them? A sensible discussion cannot really be centred around who he will dismiss straight away because, lets face it, we are not him.

Who will or won't fit in somehow seems a little disingenuous. How can it be an era without bias if all there is an element of bias from the offing?

Klopps biggest asset is his assistent...Željko Buvač.

It's hard to describe the approach of the yugoslavian football school but when combined with a german head coach it would mean to train "intelligent" and natural patterns, which normal would come from the players themselves, in a way that the team looks like a team of technical gifted and natural footballers. Which, at Dortmund, the majority of the them wasn't, with the exception of Reus, Hummels, Lewandowski and Goetze.

Which begs the question whether the overall approach of Klopp works for every team as he kind of failed without Lewandowski.

Klopp for sure isn't Rodgers mk2 and I am very sure that he will improve us simply because he knows more about football IMO... but I am still no sure whether he will fullfill the expectations of the majority of the fans.

[jepovic]

Klopp's football philosophy seems quite similar to Rafa's.

Their personalities are less similar 

[007.lankyguy]

Klopp's football philosophy seems quite similar to Rafa's.

Their personalities are less similar 

Klopp's a bit more "full throttle", as he'd say. At base level, their philosophies are basically the same - both want to be good defensively, control space, be compact, press, then play on the transition. Rafa's a bit more tactical I think but I'd suggest Jurgen's intensity is possibly more likely to spark something great out of nowhere, even if it's more likely to blow up at points.

[Sangria]

If you look at how Klopp sets his Dortmund team up to play I think these players who will flourish and work well.

GK

RB - CB - Sakho - Moreno

Lucas - Hendo

Milner/Lallana - Firmino - Coutinho

Benteke/Sturridge

We do really need another good centre-back who's good on the ball and can find a pass, while still being a good enough defender. Can for me isn't really that man and he's much more suited to either of the centre-midfield roles.

Clyne I feel sorry for because he was the perfect fit for how we originally intended to set up this season. But with the system change and now Klopp coming in, he's going to be playing a game that doesn't work in his favour. Klopp likes his full-backs to provide the width so that his 'middle-5' can press hard and aggressively towards the centre. Clyne is a great full-back especially on the defensive side, but his attacking game does leave a lot to be desired.

Presumably Klopp will be familiar with the orthodox set up of one defensive FB and one attacking WB, with a wide forward on the FB's side and an inside forward on the WB's side.