Topic: Note to members:

[Hinesy]

We have in recent weeks, allowed post match topics to run their course and allow members to vent their frustration and bile. We too feel pissed off at many matters to do with the club and this has affected if not infected us all.

However, with the close season upon us, and apart from the Transfer Bin, we want to have a summer where RAWK tries to revitalise itself both in content and respect and attitude for the site.

With that in mind, we wish to remind members two things:
1.RAWK allows all opinions to be aired provided they adhere to the RAWK rules
2.RAWK doesn't allow abuse, insults and negativity that does not move an argument forward.

This isn't new, but worth reminding as we've been lenient recently to let people get things off their chest.
ta.

[TepidT2O]

And maybe we could all agree to disagree a little more gracefully?

[BlackandWhitePaul]

"2.RAWK doesn't allow abuse, insults and negativity that does not move an argument forward."

Good, and I am pleased to hear it.

I recently stayed away for nearly 3 weeks because I was fed up and sick to the back teeth of the insults and abuse.
I'm definitely going to be clicking on the "Report to Moderator" button more often, even though I don't want to as I appreciate how time consuming it must be moderating a forum the size of RAWK.

[Motty]

"2.RAWK doesn't allow abuse, insults and negativity that does not move an argument forward."

Good, and I am pleased to hear it.

I recently stayed away for nearly 3 weeks because I was fed up and sick to the back teeth of the insults and abuse.
I'm definitely going to be clicking on the "Report to Moderator" button more often, even though I don't want to as I appreciate how time consuming it must be moderating a forum the size of RAWK.

Grass

[sms1986]

Honestly, the season has been mostly a pile of shit and so this forum has responded accordingly. We for sure need to try and move on and stop being so negative and reactionary - yes, the season was awful even though we got to two semi-finals and qualified for the group stages of the Europa League, but there's been a lot of crap said about our manager and our players lately. Even the thread for the cup final had people whining about "how did we lose to this shit Villa team". I don't know what will happen this summer, and I don't know if Rodgers will stay or go, but I do know that every Liverpool fan will want the summer to be a success and I do know that we all want FSG to consider things very carefully before they make a decision on who our manager will be next season - just because names like Klopp and Ancelotti are available, doesn't mean that they would be better for us as a team and as a club than Rodgers.

Let's remember, last season was a perfect storm for us, and whilst it was bloody wonderful to experience such a season, it was unexpected and it  was ahead of schedule for Rodgers. We then lost Suarez to Barcelona and we lost Sturridge to injury but failed to sign a decent striker who could give us the goals we need.

The only way we can go is up - we were fighting for fourth not too long ago, even after our awful season. We could have had extra time in the FA Cup semi-final if Mario's goal had been correctly given. We could have been playing in the League Cup final (on the day we beat City) if we had been able to stop that big-arsed Serbian defender from scoring in extra time and had won on penalties. We could have gone further in the Europa League if Lovren had managed to score his penalty. Next season, if we get the transfers right and FSG choose wisely on the whole manager issue, we'll do a whole lot better.

[Timbo0151]

Well said
If you could also filter out posters who offer nothing more than one sentence, smart arse comments, I'd probably post more myself.

[24/7]

I'm definitely going to be clicking on the "Report to Moderator" button more often, even though I don't want to as I appreciate how time consuming it must be moderating a forum the size of RAWK.

Do it! We can't take action on things we don't see and, in spite of SP's best efforts, we're not omniscient! Besides, I'm sick of seeing LeJake's name in the report log all the live long day

[Fitzy.]

Agreed.

Every thread being hijacked and distorted is hard work and boring.

Agendas being tossed about and general unpleasantness.

[redalways]

Surely it should be legitimate to debate whether Rodgers staying on as Liverpool Manager is positive or as many feel negative for the club?

it seems to me that the Liverpool Way is being used for stifling discussion. Thats not the Liverpool way.

[McSquared]

Surely it should be legitimate to debate whether Rodgers staying on as Liverpool Manager is positive or as many feel negative for the club?

it seems to me that the Liverpool Way is being used for stifling discussion. Thats not the Liverpool way.

It's not really the liverpool way though is it, it's respect for the current manager who as yet isn't going anywhere, and I doubt a debate on RAWK would sway any decsion by the club regarding that.

[Welshred]

Surely it should be legitimate to debate whether Rodgers staying on as Liverpool Manager is positive or as many feel negative for the club?

it seems to me that the Liverpool Way is being used for stifling discussion. Thats not the Liverpool way.

You can, as long as it's a reasoned discussion without calling him a fraud/gobshite/twat or whatever else abuse people can lay out for him.

[jooneyisdagod]

I don't, that is the point.

Exactly. And that means there is no reason for the debate not to be had. I don't have a position on whether or not Brendan should stay or go. I'm firmly on the fence as it happens. But to say that we can't talk about the manager's position only stifles discussion. Preventing abuse isn't the same as stifling discussion, so using that as an excuse doesn't come across to me as being right. And you rightly said that none of us know whether or not he's going to be here. So, what's the harm in discussing it? None of what we discuss here has any impact on what the club does, so does that mean we might as well close down the football forum? Come on mate.

[john_mac]

How do you know he isn't going anywhere?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they're off.

Fact is the abuse he receives in here from so called Liverpool fans is fucken disgraceful. I don't have a clue why its been allowed.

[john_mac]

Exactly. And that means there is no reason for the debate not to be had. I don't have a position on whether or not Brendan should stay or go. I'm firmly on the fence as it happens. But to say that we can't talk about the manager's position only stifles discussion. Preventing abuse isn't the same as stifling discussion, so using that as an excuse doesn't come across to me as being right. And you rightly said that none of us know whether or not he's going to be here. So, what's the harm in discussing it? None of what we discuss here has any impact on what the club does, so does that mean we might as well close down the football forum? Come on mate.

There is no discussion, nobody listens to anybody else for one, all entranched in their own positions and determined to let the world see their soap box. Close down the forums? We should be so fucken lucky

[McSquared]

Exactly. And that means there is no reason for the debate not to be had. I don't have a position on whether or not Brendan should stay or go. I'm firmly on the fence as it happens. But to say that we can't talk about the manager's position only stifles discussion. Preventing abuse isn't the same as stifling discussion, so using that as an excuse doesn't come across to me as being right. And you rightly said that none of us know whether or not he's going to be here. So, what's the harm in discussing it? None of what we discuss here has any impact on what the club does, so does that mean we might as well close down the football forum? Come on mate.

It isn't the oxford and cambridge debating society though is it. You know it will turn to shit after half a page, which is why there is no point starting one. I would think the mods wouldn't mind a respectful debate about managerial qualities and flaws, but it isn't going to happen.

[jooneyisdagod]

There is no discussion, nobody listens to anybody else for one, all entranched in their own positions and determined to let the world see their soap box. Close down the forums? We should be so fucken lucky

Might be your perception, but plenty of people have changed plenty of their opinions on things. Many thought Lovren was our lord and saviour in the summer last year and then changed their opinion on evidence. It does happen and many people have been gracious enough to admit it. I know I've been wrong on many things and I'll admit it openly.

As for abuse, didn't you say Brad Jones was shite? In those words too? Isn't that abuse? Oh wait, you were just stating facts or as most other people refer to it, your opinion.

[jooneyisdagod]

It isn't the oxford and cambridge debating society though is it. You know it will turn to shit after half a page, which is why there is no point starting one. I would think the mods wouldn't mind a respectful debate about managerial qualities and flaws, but it isn't going to happen.

Weed out the 'Brendan is a fraud' posts then. Report them to the mods. They've said time and again that while they're happy to have posts, even critical ones when written in a thoughtful manner, abusive posts will be given the delete treatment.

[john_mac]

It isn't the oxford and cambridge debating society though is it. You know it will turn to shit after half a page, which is why there is no point starting one. I would think the mods wouldn't mind a respectful debate about managerial qualities and flaws, but it isn't going to happen.

Not only does it not happen, every thread is hijacked in the same wat. The UEFA cup thread, I wouldn't trust Rodgers in the UEFA cup? Its not about support, its not about debate or wanting what is best, its just old fashioned vanity, look how great i am, absolute shite.

[john_mac]

Weed out the 'Brendan is a fraud' posts then. Report them to the mods. They've said time and again that while they're happy to have posts, even critical ones when written in a thoughtful manner, abusive posts will be given the delete treatment.

Isn't that exactly what the OP said and you disagreed with it? They do have lives though, the mods, and shouldn't have to be doing that in a Liverpool forum all the time. Strange, strange place.

[Hinesy]

Surely it should be legitimate to debate whether Rodgers staying on as Liverpool Manager is positive or as many feel negative for the club?

it seems to me that the Liverpool Way is being used for stifling discussion. Thats not the Liverpool way.

You haven't read what I said at all then. I've consistently pointed out that we allow all opinions provided they are argued with reason.

There's a big difference from someone saying Brad Jones was shite today and Brad Jones is a shit player. We remove abuse where we see it or if it's reported but I can guarantee John Mac is a proper red. Not saying anyone else isn't but I don't doubt his faith and his comments on the Liverpool manager are spot on.

[jooneyisdagod]

Isn't that exactly what the OP said and you disagreed with it? They do have lives though, the mods, and shouldn't have to be doing that in a Liverpool forum all the time. Strange, strange place.

No, on the contrary, I'm fully behind what the OP says. And no mods shouldn't have to be checking on a forum all their time but I don't know how they manage it between themselves and don't want to offer any comments about it.

[redalways]

Weed out the 'Brendan is a fraud' posts then. Report them to the mods. They've said time and again that while they're happy to have posts, even critical ones when written in a thoughtful manner, abusive posts will be given the delete treatment.

Its surely legitimate to question whether Rodgers has the ability to manage a club like Liverpool? Is this Pravda ?

[jooneyisdagod]

Its surely legitimate to question whether Rodgers has the ability to manage a club like Liverpool? Is this Pravda ?

Who said it isn't? Not me.

[Upinsmoke]

Isn't that exactly what the OP said and you disagreed with it? They do have lives though, the mods, and shouldn't have to be doing that in a Liverpool forum all the time. Strange, strange place.

I don't get why you don't jib it then. Or at the very least not post on topics you know before you enter the thread your gonna know what twats are saying in it and you know your gonna disagree with it from the off

[john_mac]

Might be your perception, but plenty of people have changed plenty of their opinions on things. Many thought Lovren was our lord and saviour in the summer last year and then changed their opinion on evidence. It does happen and many people have been gracious enough to admit it. I know I've been wrong on many things and I'll admit it openly.

As for abuse, didn't you say Brad Jones was shite? In those words too? Isn't that abuse? Oh wait, you were just stating facts or as most other people refer to it, your opinion.

Nothing anybody said in here changed peoples perception of Lovren, absolutely nothing.
& Brad Jones is shite

[john_mac]

I don't get why you don't jib it then. Or at the very least not post on topics you know before you enter the thread your gonna know what twats are saying in it and you know your gonna disagree with it from the off

I do most of the time, but sometimes its like an itch. I can't believe that these c*nts see themselves as Liverpool fans and feel compelled to tell them that they know fuck all about it.

[Elzar]

I wish the word 'Fraud' could be banned.

[Max_powers]

Its surely legitimate to question whether Rodgers has the ability to manage a club like Liverpool? Is this Pravda ?

Even if he isn't doing a good job according to someone, calling him a fraud is just plain disrespectful. Lets face it all Liverpool managers of past 25 years have had shite seasons but I wouldn't call the likes of Ged a fraud or Roy Evans a fraud. He is a very good manager and has been respectful of the club. Even if things don't work out here, he will still have a good career as a manager.

[Hinesy]

Its surely legitimate to question whether Rodgers has the ability to manage a club like Liverpool? Is this Pravda ?

I answered this repeated point three posts before this one. Who the fuck thinks this is Pravda? That's bollocks.

[Hinesy]

This isn't a thread on Jones.

[Alan_X]

Surely it should be legitimate to debate whether Rodgers staying on as Liverpool Manager is positive or as many feel negative for the club?

it seems to me that the Liverpool Way is being used for stifling discussion. Thats not the Liverpool way.

The Liverpool Way was that we as fans would know fuck all about anything until after it happened.

And no one is saying that it's not legitimate to discuss the manager's future. But if we are discussing Ridgers let's do it with respect and appreciation of what he did last season - one of the most enjoyable years of watching football I can remember in a long time.

In the ten years I've been on the site many things have changed. New clubs have established themselves at the top of the league, new types of social media have changed and continue to change the way we all interact on line, and more and more non-match going and international fans have joined RAWK. 

There are ongoing discussions about what RAWK should be in changing times. For me RAWK was always a place to find intelligent and moderated discussions. Sadly the nature of the Internet is that everyone's voice has the same volume even if it doesn't have the same value. I may be old fashioned and elitist but I don't believe everyone's voice has the same value when knowledge or expertise are involved.

In the last few years too many good and knowledgable writers have given up and moved elsewhere because intelligent, well-reasoned and informed writing is met with "who the fuck are you", "FSG stooge", "red-tinted glasses" or other one-liner digs and abuse. 

The other thing we have lost are real ITKs. People who actually had good links within the club. That's partly to do with the changes at the club but also because anything that didn't turn out to be 100% accurate was attacked with disturbing relish.

So yeah, let's discuss Brendan's future but actually what is there to discuss? I'm not aware of anyone on here who actually has decent contacts within the club, with Brendan or the players. We've lost a lot of the decent writers who could discuss intelligently what Rodgers may or may not have got right/wrong tactically. Which for the most part leaves regurgitation of the shite that sloshes around the rest of the media and the Internet.

Unfortunately, 'we should be able to discuss (Rodgers future/how shit Glen Johnson is/insert other topic here)...' Often translates as I want somewhere that I can post my one-line opinion and abuse anyone who disagrees with me.

How many posts in the monumental shittest following the Stoke defeat were really necessary? I had the good fortune to be in the Hebrides last Sunday with no Internet, no phone and no TV. I didn't find out the result until a couple of days later and without Internet I was unable to post anything on RAWK. And do you know what?  Me not posting made no fucking difference to anything.

So in addition to Hinesy's OP I'd suggest that people should post with economy. If someone's said something you agree with - nod silently at the screen. If someone has said something you disagree with - take a bit of time and compose a reasoned response, then read it back, and check to see if someone has listed what you wanted to say in the meantime.

[Hinesy]

What he said. Hopefully some of you get the point. Ta.