Topic: Reina signs new 6 year contract

[CraigDS]

But (correct me if I'm wrong) he took over in 2011 after Hodgson left taking Mike Kelly with him? Do you think Pepe's decline started before or after Valero left? Would you say that the decline was gradual or sudden and can blame be pointed at any of the coaches?

Well he has been working with Valero this season and isn't setting the world on fire.

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

Well he has been working with Valero this season and isn't setting the world on fire.

That wasn't really the tree I was barking up! Sometimes a player will never get over an injury or a sustained period of bad coaching might engender bad habits that won't go away. Given that the top of the game is small margins and often as much in the mind as physical, I wondered whether Pepe might have been "permanently or long-term damaged" in his ability to perform at the very highest level by an injury or by a particular coaching regime?

Additionally, given that he signed a 6 year deal in 2010, reportedly for around £100,000 a week, we are going to have difficulty offloading him before the end of his contract for anything like his true value (unless he agrees to take a pay cut...)

[PhaseOfPlay]

That wasn't really the tree I was barking up! Sometimes a player will never get over an injury or a sustained period of bad coaching might engender bad habits that won't go away. Given that the top of the game is small margins and often as much in the mind as physical, I wondered whether Pepe might have been "permanently or long-term damaged" in his ability to perform at the very highest level by an injury or by a particular coaching regime?

Additionally, given that he signed a 6 year deal in 2010, reportedly for around £100,000 a week, we are going to have difficulty offloading him before the end of his contract for anything like his true value (unless he agrees to take a pay cut...)

I've never heard of that. Quite the opposite is true - a new coach after a period of bad coaching refreshes a player who was on the skids, and brings them back to their former self.

Reina's decline actually started under Rafa, in the 2009-10 season. And it was nothing to do with coaching. Just as his form returning to something like his best last season had nothing to do with coaching. And just like Mignolet's great saves and few gaffes are nothing to do with coaching. Those things come down to the player. The coaches role is to train the player and prepare them. They can do it negatively, without intensity - like Kelly did under Hodgson - or they can do it positively, with intensity - like Valero, Achterburg and most young GK coaches.

[CHOPPER]

..........The Wigley has spoken.




Here endith the lesson

[CraigDS]

That wasn't really the tree I was barking up! Sometimes a player will never get over an injury or a sustained period of bad coaching might engender bad habits that won't go away. Given that the top of the game is small margins and often as much in the mind as physical, I wondered whether Pepe might have been "permanently or long-term damaged" in his ability to perform at the very highest level by an injury or by a particular coaching regime?

Would a 28 odd year old, highly experienced, GK really pick up 'permanent or long-term damaged' issues in the space of the 6 months Hodgson was here?

I think it's just the way some keepers go, we see it often. He was a world class keeper here for 2 years before Valero joined in 2007, although he clearly enjoyed working with him when he did.I can't see how 6 months under Hodgson permanently effected his GK ability.

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

I've never heard of that. Quite the opposite is true - a new coach after a period of bad coaching refreshes a player who was on the skids, and brings them back to their former self.

Reina's decline actually started under Rafa, in the 2009-10 season. And it was nothing to do with coaching. Just as his form returning to something like his best last season had nothing to do with coaching. And just like Mignolet's great saves and few gaffes are nothing to do with coaching. Those things come down to the player. The coaches role is to train the player and prepare them. They can do it negatively, without intensity - like Kelly did under Hodgson - or they can do it positively, with intensity - like Valero, Achterburg and most young GK coaches.

Do you not think that doubt in the mind of a once top goalkeeper can result in longer term damage, however that doubt is introduced, be it through injury, bad coaching or a sustained run of bad form? Goalkeeping, after all, is the most psychologically vulnerable of all the positions on the field...

...and I can't let "his form returning to something like his best last season" slip - do you really believe that? What I saw with my own eyes was not the Pepe of 2006-2009 by a quite wide margin.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Do you not think that doubt in the mind of a once top goalkeeper can result in longer term damage, however that doubt is introduced, be it through injury, bad coaching or a sustained run of bad form? Goalkeeping, after all, is the most psychologically vulnerable of all the positions on the field...

Injury, yes. "Bad" coaching, no. If you take ANY player, and put them through bad coaching for a period, and then change the coach to someone who gives them high intensity, challenging sessions, then that player will be re-energized in a matter of weeks.

...and I can't let "his form returning to something like his best last season" slip - do you really believe that? What I saw with my own eyes was not the Pepe of 2006-2009 by a quite wide margin.

"something like"

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

Injury, yes. "Bad" coaching, no. If you take ANY player, and put them through bad coaching for a period, and then change the coach to someone who gives them high intensity, challenging sessions, then that player will be re-energized in a matter of weeks.

Fair enough, you know far more about football coaching than I will ever do and you've shared your experience on here many a time, for which we are all very grateful. I was wondering about the psychological damage of bad training to (e.g.) confidence when performance drops as a result? My experience (albeit in an entirely different form of non-sport training, it has to be said) is that confidence and trust can be built up over long periods of time, but can be lost in an instant and be very difficult long-term projects to rebuild.

"something like"

I'd have gone with "nothing like", but we'll have to agree to differ on that one

[rafa4eva]

As I've got older, I've noticed there's a horrible attitude to turn on some managers and players after they no longer serve a purpose regards our club, which to be honest gets tiring after a while to read or listen.

The same over reina, the truth is probably in the middle of brendan and reinas version of events, brendan spent 9m getting his 1st choice keeper, a loan was authorised by Brendan or the club and accepted by reina. The reality again is that at the end of the loan, reina will return to liverpool, he has to agree to be sold or loaned out again, he could stay on our books that's a reality.

Id agree that Brendan's response on reina probably is shaping future negotiations IMO. I don't begrudge reina wanting to leave liverpool, this ain't the good old romanticised past where players stayed with us till we got rid of em ( the irony is not lost on me that when the club benefits all is alright, this loyalty or disrespect is not brought up then, but that's me ) my only desire is that the club plays it smartly and gets fair value from the transfer ... I've had enough of transfers such as macca and Owen, which left us in their prime for f&&@ all.

I hope we can deal with what happens in the future as maturely and professionally as we should when it comes to selling reina, for the best price and stop this he said she said he said in public.