Author Topic: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership  (Read 346588 times)

Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1560 on: March 2, 2012, 12:21:29 am »
http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15377   ;)


Anyway, the way I see it is if Carragher plays and we get beat, the moaning commences. Ditto if Coates plays. If Carra plays and we twat them, we'll hear "they never troubled us so it would have been ideal experience for Coates." As far as fans and results are concerned, it's a no win situation. I think Kenny will go with Carragher though regardless.

Personally there's a few tactical reasons I'd like Coates playing instead of Carragher. Skrtel will be forced over to the left of the centre halves to accomodate him, when all his outstanding performances have been on the right of the two. Coates on the other hand would start on the left of the two and follow Skrtel's commands. Skrtel has definitely improved on his bossing and organising the defence this season. Carra won't be told what to do by Skrtel and will automatically assume the leadership role, resulting in us dropping back about 15 yards more than normal. If they leave space like that between themselves and the midfield for Rosicky and Van Persie to exploit, they'll fucking murder us. Not only that, Johnson and Enrique won't get forward as much, or will have more ground to cover when they do, and possibly have the prospect of Wankalot and Chambermaid running at them at pace. I hope I'm wrong about all the above though, and Skrtel grabs hold of Carra before the game and shows him who the daddy is.
Annoyingly, you've said it much better than I managed to!

Superb post that.
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Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1561 on: March 2, 2012, 12:23:36 am »
Don't be hysterical. In terms of logical football rationale, those factors favouring Coates outweigh those for Carragher.


I would much rather have someone with a wealth of experience than a total novice when facing Arsenal, who, incidentally just put 5 past spurs. Carra will start without a doubt. 
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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1562 on: March 2, 2012, 12:25:08 am »
I would much rather have someone with a wealth of experience than a total novice when facing Arsenal, who, incidentally just put 5 past spurs. Carra will start without a doubt.
How is Coates a 'total novice'?
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1563 on: March 2, 2012, 12:28:00 am »
Here's an interesting scenario then. Imagine you're Kenny. Carragher gets the starting nod as expected but in the first 45 mins all the concerns voiced are painfully evident and defensively we're being exposed time and time again. Half-time then, do you stick with it, or put Coates on, switching Skrtel back to the right, even if you know the substitution will be regarded by Carragher as a humiliation?
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Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1564 on: March 2, 2012, 12:29:10 am »
How is Coates a 'total novice'?

He's started 1 premier league game...
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Offline macca888

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1565 on: March 2, 2012, 12:29:17 am »

I would much rather have someone with a wealth of experience than a total novice when facing Arsenal, who, incidentally just put 5 past spurs. Carra will start without a doubt. 


Plessis - Novice - Boss Game

Flanagan - Novice - Boss Game

Robinson - Novice - Boss Game

See the pattern here?
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1566 on: March 2, 2012, 12:30:13 am »
How is Coates a 'total novice'?
Haven't you heard? He's not "Prem-proven".
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Offline macca888

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1567 on: March 2, 2012, 12:30:28 am »
Annoyingly, you've said it much better than I managed to!

Superb post that.

Undoubtedly that's my experience shining through   :D
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1568 on: March 2, 2012, 12:30:38 am »
Plessis - Novice - Boss Game

Flanagan - Novice - Boss Game

Robinson - Novice - Boss Game

See the pattern here?
Mellor?
My scouse, the often busted but seldom battered Mr Flabby Whore Alien. Who will not send in cottoned wool, bubbled rap, shiny sliver spaced blanket and sum beefy Bovril to keep it warm and safe and snag as bag in a rag? Oh Whore yours is a sweeter leftish peg

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1569 on: March 2, 2012, 12:32:08 am »
He's started 1 premier league game...
You're right, let's not play him until he's started 50.
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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1570 on: March 2, 2012, 12:32:37 am »
He's started 1 premier league game...
But he won the Copa America and has played brilliantly away to both Stoke and Chelsea in the Carling cup.

The way some go on you would think Coates was some 16 year old lad who's gone from playing polo in his garden with mummy and daddy to suddenly becoming a professional footballer overnight.

Coates has played over 70 games in all competitions for club and country. Hardly a novice is he?
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Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1571 on: March 2, 2012, 12:32:41 am »
Personally, I'd go with Coates. He's going to make a few mistake it may as well be now. What if Carragher makes the same mistake that Coates does? There's every possibilty. At least the former has age on his side.

Either way, I believe fourth is going to be very difficult to achieve without Danny.

Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1572 on: March 2, 2012, 12:32:52 am »
Plessis - Novice - Boss Game

Flanagan - Novice - Boss Game

Robinson - Novice - Boss Game

See the pattern here?

Why were those players on the pitch... due to injuries we didn't have experienced cover in those positions.
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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1573 on: March 2, 2012, 12:35:03 am »
The question should be: Is Carra so much better as a pure defender than Coates that it's worth playing him despite his obvious deficiencies in other areas of the game.

To me, the answer is a very clear no.
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Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1574 on: March 2, 2012, 12:36:19 am »
But he won the Copa America and has played brilliantly away to both Stoke and Chelsea in the Carling cup.

The way some go on you would think Coates was some 16 year old lad who's gone from playing polo in his garden with mummy and daddy to suddenly becoming a professional footballer overnight.

Coates has played over 70 games in all competitions for club and country. Hardly a novice is he?

In premier league terms he is a total novice. For me, this isn't the game to be giving him a starting place when we have Carragher.

The South American footballing style is nothing like the English.
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Offline PIPA23

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1575 on: March 2, 2012, 12:37:25 am »
i think we might end up playing 3 CB at back against Arsenal with both Johnson and Enrique as full backs..similar to chelsea year ago..

Offline macca888

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1576 on: March 2, 2012, 12:37:33 am »
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1577 on: March 2, 2012, 12:38:03 am »
Why were those players on the pitch... due to injuries we didn't have experienced cover in those positions.

Close but no cigar. Roll up, roll up, have another try.
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Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1578 on: March 2, 2012, 12:39:03 am »
In premier league terms he is a total novice. For me, this isn't the game to be giving him a starting place when we have Carragher.

The South American footballing style is nothing like the English.
It was against teams that play in the Premier League though...

If not Coates, why not Kelly? I know he hasn't played many games there, but when he has he's looked extremely solid.

Also, I don't think experience necessarily means someone should play. Especially if their form of recent has been so poor.

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Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1579 on: March 2, 2012, 12:40:18 am »
The question should be: Is Carra so much better as a pure defender than Coates that it's worth playing him despite his obvious deficiencies in other areas of the game.

To me, the answer is a very clear no.

How have you seen enough of him to make that call? Like i said, he's started 1 premier league game, I don't think any of us have seen enough to determine how good a premier league player he is yet and surely now is not the time to find out, RVP is the best striker in the league at present.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1580 on: March 2, 2012, 12:44:06 am »
Let's be honest, opting for Carragher is nothing really to do with his experience.
My scouse, the often busted but seldom battered Mr Flabby Whore Alien. Who will not send in cottoned wool, bubbled rap, shiny sliver spaced blanket and sum beefy Bovril to keep it warm and safe and snag as bag in a rag? Oh Whore yours is a sweeter leftish peg

Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1581 on: March 2, 2012, 12:44:09 am »
It was against teams that play in the Premier League though...

If not Coates, why not Kelly? I know he hasn't played many games there, but when he has he's looked extremely solid.

Also, I don't think experience necessarily means someone should play. Especially if their form of recent has been so poor.

I would play Kelly over Coates as a central defender. Rarely will a player (especially a young defensive one) come in and be exceptional right off the bat. If we were playing a ‘lesser’ opposition I would not have a problem. Arsenal and RVP have just hammered 5 goals past Spurs, it’s not the right time for me.
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Offline UNO

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1582 on: March 2, 2012, 12:45:14 am »
That's my problem with it. A young red, why not all of them since they were bringing kids along? I have no problem with it, but why not any of the other players?

As I said before, Carra is Mr. Liverpool! He has been a great servant for the club and he has the right to do anything he likes within Liverpool FC. It's called player's power. He will be the manager of Liverpool if he chooses to do it. Bla Bla Bla.
Going back to the subject, there is only one good point about Carra starting before Coates: Should a brilliant Arsenal turn up (Even better than the one against Spurs), it will give the young lad a huge blow in confidence. The chance is slim though.

Offline NOTBORNIN1982

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1583 on: March 2, 2012, 12:45:34 am »
You're right, let's not play him until he's started 50.

Or wait until were not playing against the best striker in the league who’s team have just hammered local rivals...
« Last Edit: March 2, 2012, 12:47:29 am by EST1982 »
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1584 on: March 2, 2012, 12:47:04 am »
Let's be honest, opting for Carragher is nothing really to do with his experience.

What else would it be?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1585 on: March 2, 2012, 12:47:22 am »
surely now is not the time to find out, RVP is the best striker in the league at present.
Carragher used to have a heart attack when Henry got within 10 yards of him and that was 5 years ago, yet you're quite relaxed about him containing Van Persie on Saturday?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1586 on: March 2, 2012, 12:49:46 am »
Carragher used to have a heart attack when Henry got within 10 yards of him and that was 5 years ago, yet you're quite relaxed about him containing Van Persie on Saturday?

RVP doesn't have half the pace that Henry had, which was the main reason he gave Carra nightmares.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2012, 12:52:00 am by EST1982 »
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Offline Gainsbarre

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1587 on: March 2, 2012, 01:05:24 am »
RVP doesn't have half the pace that Henry had, which was the main reason he gave Carra nightmares.
.         

Walcott and Chamberlain.. Enough pace!
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1588 on: March 2, 2012, 01:07:48 am »
.         

Walcott and Chamberlain.. Enough pace!

I assume they will be playing as wingers?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1589 on: March 2, 2012, 01:13:58 am »
People seem to think that Coates is some inexperienced, weak minded player. He's a 2 time league winning player with Nacional, he won the Copa America with Uruguay, picking up best young player in the process. He has nearly 70 professional games and he has already shown that he has a great mentality by overcoming an absolute stinker against Stoke, into a great performance in the second half which, ironically enough, coincided with Carragher leaving the pitch.


Forget history, I may not have seen enough of Coates to claim that he's guaranteed to step up to the plate against Arsenal. But I've seen enough to think he warrants a fair shot at it, and I've seen enough of Carragher that I don't think he should be anywhere near the starting line-up. He slows down play, is terrible on the ball for a professional footballer, drags us deep onto the pitch and doesn't offer up an attacking threat in set pieces. And even if Coates makes mistakes, and I'm sure he will, worst case scenario it's a learning curve. Like we know he won't let a loose ball bounce like he did with Walters. If Carra does it, he won't take anything away from it. If they both start and make 3 mistakes leading to goals, at least 2-3 years down the line we can look back at that with Coates. Carra has already peaked and playing him is only delaying the inevitable
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1590 on: March 2, 2012, 01:27:35 am »
Let's be honest, opting for Carragher is nothing really to do with his experience.

No its to do with him being the best available central defender - lets be honest

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1591 on: March 2, 2012, 01:37:36 am »
Plessis - Novice - Boss Game

Flanagan - Novice - Boss Game

Robinson - Novice - Boss Game

See the pattern here?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1592 on: March 2, 2012, 01:47:13 am »
Here's an interesting scenario then. Imagine you're Kenny. Carragher gets the starting nod as expected but in the first 45 mins all the concerns voiced are painfully evident and defensively we're being exposed time and time again. Half-time then, do you stick with it, or put Coates on, switching Skrtel back to the right, even if you know the substitution will be regarded by Carragher as a humiliation?
Ok then, if we're pulling scenarios out of the air, let’s say he plays, and plays well, we don't concede and win.... in fact, if were pulling scenarios out of the air.... he even scores the winner from a corner!!! How does that sit with Rossdalglish?


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Offline Lent§

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1593 on: March 2, 2012, 01:50:58 am »
<INSERT FOOTBALL MANAGER FORMATION HERE>

Carra has to start if Agger doesn't, end of.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1594 on: March 2, 2012, 01:53:43 am »
Carragher used to have a heart attack when Henry got within 10 yards of him and that was 5 years ago, yet you're quite relaxed about him containing Van Persie on Saturday?

Coates has played against the likes of balotelli, agueros and alexis sanchez's of this world for his national team and has been excellent. He has a hell of lot more experience playing against top forwards than people seem to think. Carra has been poor this year and the likes of asamoah gyan caused him problems in the first game of the season, the likes of van persie, gervinho are better than gyan.

Offline Lent§

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1595 on: March 2, 2012, 01:56:37 am »
Gervinho is shite, you're scare-mongering cos it's fashionable on this site to hate Carra.

He's more than good enough to contain Arsenal's (1-man) attack alongside Skrtel on Saturday. Those of you suggesting a young, inexperienced defender cos he's quicker over 5 yards than Carra ought to give your heads a wibble.
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Offline macca888

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1596 on: March 2, 2012, 02:09:15 am »
You play one game for us and disappear into obscurity?................ :P




;D

;D  Cheating twat, you looked at the answers didn't ya?
Macca resplendent!
A colossus bestriding the
moral high ground as ever.

Offline Azi

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1597 on: March 2, 2012, 02:13:42 am »
Plessis - Novice - Boss Game

Flanagan - Novice - Boss Game

Robinson - Novice - Boss Game

See the pattern here?

all games at Emirates  ;)

Offline Dmode101

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1598 on: March 2, 2012, 02:16:57 am »
carra has proven to be a liability over too many numerous recent matches that he started be it top or lower team. To start him now against of all teams a pacey arsenal with a on fire RVP would no doubt seal carra fate as he is the worst candidate who was never pacey and in his last legs. The evidence is clear that he is finished. If not for that creep who scandalously resigned him, carra would have bowed out gracefully into retirement.

Now, not only his posse of forum "fans" are in full farce promoting him, he also recently broke tradition and protocol when his son came second to gerrard in lifting the carling cup. So what now, carra as striker and manager? kenny! yer packing your stuff!


 

   
If you judge people for what they are not who they are, you will make genuine friends rather than friends of circumstance.

Offline ArgImAPirate

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1599 on: March 2, 2012, 03:08:04 am »
On form this season, I think Coates edges it. I think Carra's a legend... but a the same time we've got a very good centreback with a lot of attributes you look for in top centrebacks and I think we've got to blood him in sooner rather than later. So when he does make the breakthrough as a first team player, if he ever does (which I think he will given what he's shown in the little he has) he'll be better prepared. He also gives us a huge target in set pieces and let's not forget he's been a part of winning sides at domestic and international levels. I think that shows he's got the mentality to learn from his mistakes, which he'll make being a young kid in a higher standard league.

I'd say it'd be a gamble if I thought it were any more of a risk than playing Carragher. Which isn't to say Carragher isn't still a good centreback. I just don't think he offers as much as Coates does. With Coates we can play a higher defensive line, which will help defense link up better with th midfield, which'll help us retain possession throughout the match. He's also fucking huge, and that height is important. What Carragher does offer is leadership and experience, which is always important in big games. I'm very weary of allowing Arsenal to dominate possession and defend deep against many attacks though - they're inconsistent but they're capable of doing real damage.