Topic: Benitez admits 'big mistakes'

[shanklyboy]

Give him a break - the way those Germans tricked the ref into sending off poor little Rafael was disgraceful.

Typical cheating Germans eh?

Maybe Ferguson has forgotten who this young man is.
I'm sure the comments will go down well with him.

[SMD]

Not concerned that he's admitted mistakes. The most interesting thing about the last couple of interviews is Rafa switching back into the chess player mode. He's definitely putting more and more pressure on the yanks in the lead up to their refinancing. He clearly thinks he's safe enough to get away with the turning the screw in that regard and shining the light on the yanks, which is a good thing.

His mistakes aren't important at the moment, not compared to that.

Sums it up for me. The vitriol Rafa gets for his mistakes is bordering on rampant. And there are STILL people defending Hicks and Gillett.

[SuperSub77]

All the top managers are stubborn look at Ferguson and Wenger. I prefer to call it they have the courage of their convictions and know what they want for their club.
I'd rather have a manager who was stubborn than one who bow's to media and peer pressure.

Think you're missing my point mate, this is in no relation to the media, rather in his approach. I agree with you that you do need to have the courage of your convictions, but it can be taken too far, when things aren't going to plan it takes a big man to admit that they need to go against their convictions.

For example, at times when we were screaming for Rafa to be offensive, he would stubbornly stick with his 2 holding midfielders. More recently he's started to change things a bit and be more offensive.

[WhoseLeftFoot?]

For example, at times when we were screaming for Rafa to be offensive, he would stubbornly stick with his 2 holding midfielders. More recently he's started to change things a bit and be more offensive.

That's got sod all to do with us, the media or anything else except Rafa.

If you think any different then you are plain wrong.

If he has switched tactics, it's because he thinks it is the best thing to do to get 4th, or go through to the next round of the europa and because he has the personnel to do it now.

He tried it at the start of the season, but our defensive headaches and the players not being able to adjust/adapt to 2 attacking fullbacks meant he had to rein the players back in and play rigidly.

The players have had nearly the whole season to adjust, and now the attacking full backs are making their presence felt - simple as that.

I very much doubt that Rafa bows to pressure from ANYONE.

[Carlito Roberto]

Typical cheating Germans eh?

Maybe Ferguson has forgotten who this young man is.
I'm sure the comments will go down well with him.

Haha class!

Ferguson seems to have quickly forgotten about demanding a straight red for Mascherano on Valencia for a similar offence, when he wasn't even the last man???

Great logic that eh  - if it's one of his players it's not even a yellow, but if it's against his player it should be a straight red.

Stay away from Whisky kids!

[RigBon1892]

jeffiner1892 you always back Rafa no matter what. Even when its clear he has fucked up.

Now Rafa has come out and said he has made mistakes.

So my question to you and other backers of Rafa no matter what group - What mistakes do you think Rafa has made as a manager? And lets not bring money into it or the lack of it.

Robbie Keane, would it have worked if we'd gotten Barry too? Who knows? But he cut his losses as soon as he could, likewise Morientes, Kromkamp, Nunez, Josemi etc.

Starting Kewell in Istanbul, then again who knows what might have happened had he started Didi?

Another one was leaving it too late to sell Warnock without bringing in a replacement, although I hold Blackburn as responsible as I do us. Luckily that one worked out as Finnan managed to stay uninjured.

[evenflow]

Rafa is ******* blah, blah blah

Kuyt and Lucas are crap blah blah blah

If stevie was chocolate i would eat him he is a god blah blah

Just some of the pointless shite posted everyday by the same wannabees

so in my opinion and that is the only one that matters to me!

1 it is easy to quote media shite to have a pop at Rafa, so takes no intelligence which is ideal for some!

2 it takes no intelligence to be right after the event , the trick is to make your criticisms before or during the game, Rafa makes his decisions rightly or wrongly in real time you have the luxury to view it after the event and change your stance to make yourself look intelligent.

3 some of you do treat managers like the tramp and the guy who showed us no respect in cardiff, with far more reverence than you do our own guy, how dare any of you call Rafa the fat etc of a wanker (either as a smilie or not) this clubs fanbase was not educated in this way throughout the decades,  so it can only be the new' type before you engage brain SSN warriors' who type this disgraceful shite on here!

Yes Rafa's made some mistakes christ all managers do that they make decisions in real time not sit in a studio and look at it and then decide what spin to put on it for easily led morons to quote later.

Ferguson made two mistakes yesterday  he needed a fourth after half time to secure and he put on a defensive midfield guy oshea for rooney, he then finally finally in a panic mode put berba and giggs on far too late to alter things and in the end sent vidic up because he suddenly found out berba isnt a CF as such and a luxury when you need a goal quickly! Do I see the media crucifying him this morning ah well guess not hey!

 for sure the holy trinity for some it appears is fucked, as far as a miinority of fans are concerned!

one last thing ask yourself , you are renowned and respected throughout the world , you are working for two liars who put obsticles up to make your job almost impossible, you have your captain acting like shirley temple with PMT, and you have had and are still getting offers from some of the elite clubs in Europe who would double your salary and support major investment for new players. Would you stick around?

Then just be thankful that Rafa has, christ knows what shit we would be in with Klinsman, mon, curbishley, jose in charge!

Ok just needed to get this off my chest, now lets stuff Benfica  tonight and move on together for once!

this is exactly how i feel.
well stated geoff

[Fordy]

Robbie Keane, would it have worked if we'd gotten Barry too? Who knows? But he cut his losses as soon as he could, likewise Morientes, Kromkamp, Nunez, Josemi etc.

Starting Kewell in Istanbul, then again who knows what might have happened had he started Didi?

Another one was leaving it too late to sell Warnock without bringing in a replacement, although I hold Blackburn as responsible as I do us. Luckily that one worked out as Finnan managed to stay uninjured.

Thanks for doing that. I respect what you have to say always but was very interested in what you felt Rafa's mistakes were as I know you back him highly.

[RigBon1892]

Thanks for doing that. I respect what you have to say always but was very interested in what you felt Rafa's mistakes were as I know you back him highly.

That being said, I'd have been fuming if as a replacement for Warnock we'd ended up with that c*nt Lucas Neill.

[royhendo]

Amazing how people complain about RAWK being full of people who never support the manager and all they do is whinge about him. All I've seen for the last 2 pages are statements of unrequited support, with a couple of exceptions here and there.

[RigBon1892]

Amazing how people complain about RAWK being full of people who never support the manager and all they do is whinge about him. All I've seen for the last 2 pages are statements of unrequited support, with a couple of exceptions here and there.

To be fair, my 6 week exile led me to facebook and 606, and here's practically a haven of paradise compared to those!

[shanklyboy]

Amazing how people complain about RAWK being full of people who never support the manager and all they do is whinge about him. All I've seen for the last 2 pages are statements of unrequited support, with a couple of exceptions here and there.

Ahhh but as you know Roy...those backing Benitez aren't 'True match going Season ticket holding Reds who go home and away, Europe, Mars and the bottom of the Nile' to follow Liverpool.....therefore their opinion doesn't reflect the majority, either on here or at the match and so doesn't count.

[Linton]

What mistakes do you think Rafa has made as a manager? And lets not bring money into it or the lack of it.

Most managers makes mistakes in the transfer market so I won't even go into that, he has had some extremely good buys and some extrelmely poor.
What annoys me much more with Rafa is his extreme stubbordness, like he is on a power trip. Even if its clear for 99% percent of the population that what he do isn't working he still keeps doing the same. He HAVE to change his approach to games or else he is finished at LFC. We play catenaccio against poor opposition away and only have a go when the shit has hit the fan. I want him to be more flexible in his ideas but more then anything I want us to have a go at teams that for a FACT have worse players then us. When we meet the likes of Barca, Man U or Real Madrid away, it's fine to keep it tight but against most teams that shouldnt be necessary, let them worry. After 6 years, looking at our way of playing football, I'm a bit dissapointed to be honest. And please do one with "shots on goals" and 86 points last season (more than half of that season people were moaning like fuck that we played dreadful football) our football, generally under Rafa has been pretty poor IMO. Time for a change. And we will get one because he wont try something else.

[carling]

Amazing how people complain about RAWK being full of people who never support the manager and all they do is whinge about him. All I've seen for the last 2 pages are statements of unrequited support, with a couple of exceptions here and there.

People always seem to go on about RAWK being full of whoppers with all sorts of sweeping bollocks opinions.  I must just miss most of them.

[RigBon1892]

People always seem to go on about RAWK being full of whoppers with all sorts of sweeping bollocks opinions.  I must just miss most of them.

I'm not being biased but this definitely IS one of the better LFC forums around.

[royhendo]

I reckon it must have been like Shangri-la in the old days. It's still the best site on the web in my hamble onion.

[shanklyboy]

I reckon it must have been like Shangri-la in the old days. It's still the best site on the web in my hamble onion.

Shangri-la-lar?

[WhoseLeftFoot?]

I'm not being biased but this definitely IS one of the better LFC forums around.

Ditto - probably the best.

I've been on a few others, and some of the shite people come out with is nothing short of amazing.

Combine a complete lack of knowledge about the team and football in general with selective memory and it makes for VERY amusing (if embarressing) reading.

[royhendo]

[disainit]

You're right to say it's naive to believe it's one or the other. I wouldn't say I contradicted that idea earlier. What Jin was saying is that if, say, Henry Winter, or even someone like Tony Evans, had published an article saying the manager has made mistakes, that he signed one player and thereby put all his eggs in one basket and 'cannot manage' the situation when he has problems, that kind of thing, there would inevitably be people on here who would tear the writer to shreds for the sheer gall of it. As it stands, Rafa's the one who's suggested these things, so how are these more fundamentalist people gonna rationalise it? In their case, best to just admit they have faith that he'll turn it round. Faith based on logic, on religious zeal, whatever, but faith nevertheless.

I have faith in Rafa. I have faith that he's the best manager to turn it around for us. But my faith is not blind. It is faith based on logic, the logic being based on the observation and appreciation of the impressive track record that Rafa has, which I'll lay it out here in case there's any doubt about it: He's led Valencia to their first Spanish league title in 31 years. I have witnessed his Crushing Machine completely outclass us with their pass and move football when we were under Ged's management, and I've seen glimpses of the very same pass and move football in our team when we show up in games. In 2005, he gave us Istanbul. He made Liverpool a team to be feared again in Europe, restoring our number 1 position in UEFA's ranking, Last season, he almost clinched the league for us. Since coming on board, statistically, our points tally have increased, twice breaking our own club records. The quality in our first 11 is now as good as any in the world. In bringing in Torres, he's given us a Legend. And he's done all this with a relatively limited budget, probably not much bigger than Sunderland's, and while playing a 'cautious' (read tactical) kind of football.

If you were to read any posts of from the pro-Rafa brigade at random, you're most likely to find the poster arguing his points logically based on these observations. You'll find it very difficult to locate ones where clearly the poster is exhibiting blind faith. Yet, with one fell swoop of a sentence, you've somehow managed to demean the majority of pro-Rafarians on par to the rare breed whose faith is based on religious zeal as you described it, just because we all have 'faith' in our manager.

Royhendo, you've always been a beacon of sense on a site shite full of zombies. You've been the neuroleptic the doctor ordered for the treatment spasmodic post match reactions. But lately, I find I just can't bear to read your posts anymore. Is it just this one poor season getting to you, or is there something I'm totally missing out on?

Btw if Henry Winter were to publish that article I'd say he's a twat, but not without the proof that he's a twat by providing samples of when Rafa's signings have worked out.

[afcgooner]

A lot of managers make mistakes and although I think Benitez might NOT be the Liverpool manager next season, I think the mistakes should still not hide up the good he has done for Liverpool. The first geniune title challenge in years and some major trophies. So its been pretty good in general.

I think if he stays, this season will only make him stronger and his relationship with the club stronger. To the degree, where you feel you won't want to see any other manager manage liverpool but Rafa Benitez.

I think the support you have given him has to be admired. Its often looked down upon.

[disainit]

Well how about "too bad they cant put that energy into getting behind the team?"

Or how about "too bad they cant put that energy into getting behind the team at the hour of their need?"

[SuperSub77]

If you think any different then you are plain wrong.

OK, didn't know it was so black and white, or that there was a right or wrong answer.

I very much doubt that Rafa bows to pressure from ANYONE.

I agree wholeheartedly, and it's one of the reasons that we stick by him, he is strong and determined, i admire him for that.

[MagicB8all]

A lot of managers make mistakes and although I think Benitez might NOT be the Liverpool manager next season, I think the mistakes should still not hide up the good he has done for Liverpool. The first geniune title challenge in years and some major trophies. So its been pretty good in general.

I think if he stays, this season will only make him stronger and his relationship with the club stronger. To the degree, where you feel you won't want to see any other manager manage liverpool but Rafa Benitez.

I think the support you have given him has to be admired. Its often looked down upon.

I agree with much of this, though I hope he is manager next year.
I'm sure Arsene has had problems like this, how did the gooner fans react?

[royhendo]

You'll find it very difficult to locate ones where clearly the poster is exhibiting blind faith. Yet, with one fell swoop of a sentence, you've somehow managed to demean the majority of pro-Rafarians on par to the rare breed whose faith is based on religious zeal as you described it, just because we all have 'faith' in our manager.

Pro-Rafarians eh? Personally I think it's a shame there's even remotely a concept of "Pro-Rafarians" and "Anti-Rafarians". Judean People's Front territory, is that.

People on here think in fundamentalist terms. For me, that's a dangerous place to be, state of mind wyse. The merest hint of criticism of Rafa Benitez is met with derision that you can only compare with some kind of religious zeal. Jehovah Jehovah Jehovah.

You're also assuming I don't personally have faith in the manager, which is categorically untrue. I think it's healthier to accept the manager warts and all. I don't think he's perfect, and I hope he's aware that he can always improve from his already admittedly world class standard. If I think he's letting himself down, as I did last night, then 'ex-ka-yewse me', I'll bloody well say so as honestly as I can. Thank you very much.

Does that make me a "Pro-Rafarian"?

Royhendo, you've always been a beacon of sense on a site shite full of zombies. You've been the neuroleptic the doctor ordered for the treatment spasmodic post match reactions. But lately, I find I just can't bear to read your posts anymore. Is it just this one poor season getting to you, or is there something I'm totally missing out on?

It'll bore a lot of people this, but I should maybe explain some of my biggest heroes in sport. Shanks, Jock Stein, Jim McLean, Jim Telfer, Rafael Benitez.

The common thread that binds all those men together is an unflinching commitment to honesty, decency, and hard work; an insistence on maintaining the highest standard, both as individuals and as a group, both on and off the field of play; tactical savvy and a strategic approach to their selection and squad building; vision and understanding of the need to align things from root to fruit; never hiding or making excuses for themselves or others, no matter how bad the odds might appear.

If you think something's changed in my posts this year as regards Rafa Benitez, then it's because I think he's letting himself and his club down on a couple of those criteria. Note - that's a couple. There are a lot of criteria there.

For me Rafa deserves time, and over the long-term, the work he's doing behind the scenes has the potential to steady the keel for the future. That takes vision and commitment and hard work. I love him for that - quite honestly, I have nothing but affection for the man. But I, and I believe anybody, should be able to say when I think some aspect of his work isn't up to snuff. And I personally wish people didn't interpret that point to mean I'm fundamentally against the manager. It's 'fundamentalist'. I've said it many times, but it's like manning the lifeboats cos somebody's spilled a cup of tea on deck. It does my head in that people are so polarised and intolerant of what is reasonable debate. We're not pond life, are we?

All the best pal.

[Fat Scouser]

All the best pal.

Wharrayou explainin yerself for, yer big Jessie. Had a few early barley wines just to get in the mood and be sociable with the rabbi?

What this gaff needs is sane people on both sides of the fence. It's the pricks who put wanker smiley's in posts that ruin the place, in my thimble eyeon.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

Roy, have you studied/heard of Bayesian Inference at all? It raises some interesting questions about faith, that suggest that whilst there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding beliefs, it can still be used to measure events probabilistically. (Haven't explained that at all well, but Bayesian Inference is an interesting topic in this regard).

[royhendo]

(Oh, sorry...)

Enjoy the match and here's to a fucking legendary atmosphere.

[Fat Scouser]

What this gaff needs is sane people on both sides of the fence...

Or an enema.

[royhendo]

Roy, have you studied/heard of Bayesian Inference at all? It raises some interesting questions about faith, that suggest that whilst there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding beliefs, it can still be used to measure events probabilistically. (Haven't explained that at all well, but Bayesian Inference is an interesting topic in this regard).

That reminds me of "Wicked Willie's Guide To Life" mate. There's a cartoon of a bird who's just given a guy a blowjob, leaving lipstick marks on his knob. She says "Have you read Marx On The Proletariat?" He says "No, but I've red marks on my willie".

No mate, I've not done anything on Bayesian Inference and as you know that kind of thing is right up my strasse. The only thing it's set off in my head is a distribution curve graph. I'd appreciate a wee pm on that if you're up for it dude. Muchas gracias.

[the_prodigal_s0n]

That reminds me of "Wicked Willie's Guide To Life" mate. There's a cartoon of a bird who's just given a guy a blowjob, leaving lipstick marks on his knob. She says "Have you read Marx On The Proletariat?" He says "No, but I've red marks on my willie".

No mate, I've not done anything on Bayesian Inference and as you know that kind of thing is right up my strasse. The only thing it's set off in my head is a distribution curve graph. I'd appreciate a wee pm on that if you're up for it dude. Muchas gracias.

Cool. Will do post-match or early tomorrow. It's an interesting topic in my opinion, but I much prefer the way I was taught it to the wiki page on it (at first glance).

[RK7]

Aquilani has had a problem for the entire season and Rafa expected  him to play a bigger role. 

That is the problem, every sign pointed towards Aquillani being a massive risk. His injury record and the number of games he had played was kind of a giveaway. It wasn't like we were in a position to gamble such a large sum.

[disainit]

Pro-Rafarians eh? Personally I think it's a shame there's even remotely a concept of "Pro-Rafarians" and "Anti-Rafarians". Judean People's Front territory, is that.

People on here think in fundamentalist terms. For me, that's a dangerous place to be, state of mind wyse. The merest hint of criticism of Rafa Benitez is met with derision that you can only compare with some kind of religious zeal. Jehovah Jehovah Jehovah.

You're also assuming I don't personally have faith in the manager, which is categorically untrue. I think it's healthier to accept the manager warts and all. I don't think he's perfect, and I hope he's aware that he can always improve from his already admittedly world class standard. If I think he's letting himself down, as I did last night, then 'ex-ka-yewse me', I'll bloody well say so as honestly as I can. Thank you very much.

Does that make me a "Pro-Rafarian"?

It'll bore a lot of people this, but I should maybe explain some of my biggest heroes in sport. Shanks, Jock Stein, Jim McLean, Jim Telfer, Rafael Benitez.

The common thread that binds all those men together is an unflinching commitment to honesty, decency, and hard work; an insistence on maintaining the highest standard, both as individuals and as a group, both on and off the field of play; tactical savvy and a strategic approach to their selection and squad building; vision and understanding of the need to align things from root to fruit; never hiding or making excuses for themselves or others, no matter how bad the odds might appear.

If you think something's changed in my posts this year as regards Rafa Benitez, then it's because I think he's letting himself and his club down on a couple of those criteria. Note - that's a couple. There are a lot of criteria there.

For me Rafa deserves time, and over the long-term, the work he's doing behind the scenes has the potential to steady the keel for the future. That takes vision and commitment and hard work. I love him for that - quite honestly, I have nothing but affection for the man. But I, and I believe anybody, should be able to say when I think some aspect of his work isn't up to snuff. And I personally wish people didn't interpret that point to mean I'm fundamentally against the manager. It's 'fundamentalist'. I've said it many times, but it's like manning the lifeboats cos somebody's spilled a cup of tea on deck. It does my head in that people are so polarised and intolerant of what is reasonable debate. We're not pond life, are we?

All the best pal.

Finally! For some time now you've got me really scared, disillusioned and jumpy. But If there was any doubt that you've turned to the other side, this right fine whopping from you clears it up for me pretty much. Thank you!

Still, I just wonder if it's the right time for your criticisms seeing as we're really really down on our luck. Lines are being drawn within our ranks and shades of grey are now either 'whiter' or 'darker'. It doesn't really help our gaffer to have one of our own providing ammunition to the other side, even if it's just a BB. Some of us are 'maning the lifeboats' now coz there's no assurance that Rafa will stay for the next season. If we were having a better season, well maybe I'd not worry much about criticism being misread as a disapproval.

Btw, 'Pro-Rafarian', 'Anti-Rafalite', ..sorry if these came across as fundamentalistic, but these are mere terms I've just stucked into my post for want of a better term. What would you rather I have in place of those words, "those who support Rafa and want him to stay for the season" and "those who don't support Rafa and want him out before the season ends"? That's a whole lot of words to write, no?

[disainit]

Wharrayou explainin yerself for, yer big Jessie. Had a few early barley wines just to get in the mood and be sociable with the rabbi?

What this gaff needs is sane people on both sides of the fence. It's the pricks who put wanker smiley's in posts that ruin the place, in my thimble eyeon.

Yea.. but why's he fishing on the saner side of the fence?

[disainit]

Does that make me a "Pro-Rafarian"?

Hate the term as much as you like, but yes apparently it does.

[Dr Cornwallis]

I think 6.22pm was the cut-off point for this thread tonight, anything after that just says volumes about a fucking liverpool 'supporter' in the run-up to a massive European game.  Fuck off out of here you scrotes, at least until after the fucking game.

[royhendo]

Finally! For some time now you've got me really scared, disillusioned and jumpy. But If there was any doubt that you've turned to the other side, this right fine whopping from you clears it up for me pretty much. Thank you!

You know, I'm euphoric after a great performance, but wow. You're a massive mental weirdo. Please stay away from me.

Still, I just wonder if it's the right time for your criticisms seeing as we're really really down on our luck. Lines are being drawn within our ranks and shades of grey are now either 'whiter' or 'darker'. It doesn't really help our gaffer to have one of our own providing ammunition to the other side, even if it's just a BB. Some of us are 'maning the lifeboats' now coz there's no assurance that Rafa will stay for the next season. If we were having a better season, well maybe I'd not worry much about criticism being misread as a disapproval.

You didn't misread it. I disapprove. It's possible to both approve of one aspect of something or someone and disapprove of different aspect. And both at the same time. And let's spice things up and say 'to different degrees' as well.

Everybody's entitled to criticise. People will take them to task and ask them to explain themselves, and if their criticism is worthwhile, people might listen, even if they don't agree. If their criticism is bollocks, then it'll die a natural death in its infancy.

Your attitude is massively intolerant.

And another thing. My personal opinion on here has no influence whatsoever in the great scheme of things, and if you think different and that any of this is really any more than a bit of fun, you're mad. Other than Phil Scraton, Rushian and the mods, Tomkins, Tony Barrett and maybe a handful of others, every one of our individual opinions on this board is a fart in the fog, nothing more. Any ordinary Bulletin Board poster who thinks they're more significant than that is deluded in the extreme. Did you hear the "Rafa" chants at the end of the game tonight? Maybe you're being paranoid when it comes to Internet criticisms of the manager.

Sure, things like the multibanner and the Cohen Campaign can happen on this site, but it takes people working together and helping each other out. You know? Tolerating each other? People should be responsible for and with their own thoughts and opinions - that's all the staff on here ask for. If they happen to be contrarian, as long as they're not offensive then there's nothing whatsoever wrong with them.

Yea.. but why's he fishing on the saner side of the fence?

The people on the other side of your imaginary 'fence' come across a lot saner than you. Rossi, Walshy's Mullet, and a load of other posters don't hate Rafa - they just feel entitled to criticise and fair play to them - they're consistent and honest about it. If you can't handle that, you're an idiot, frankly.

My mate's Dad was a labourer on the Tay Bridge. His best mate was a tiny Irish bloke who looked like he'd get knocked over with a feather. One day a big bare knuckle boxer who worked on the team leaned over, said "they're the big man's sandwiches", and necked the Irish boy's packed lunch. The Irish boy got up, smacked him in the puss, and sparked him out. When he got up, the big lad went for him again, and the Irish boy sparked him out again. When the guy came to, the Irish boy said "don't get up son".

That night they went out for a pint and were friends for the rest of their life.

I'd recommend taking an old fashioned leaf out of those two's book. Anyway, back to feeling happy. If you don't like edgier posts, just ignore them, that's my advice.

[keyo]

I very much doubt that Rafa bows to pressure from ANYONE.

and i would be very disappointed if he did..........................once he does that then he becomes a man easily swayed and listening to a million and one voices, none of which provide clarity or direction......no good manager sways to pressure....they listen, watch and learn and establish their own way.......he is supposed to lead, not follow

[disainit]

You know, I'm euphoric after a great performance, but wow. You're a massive mental weirdo. Please stay away from me.

You didn't misread it. I disapprove. It's possible to both approve of one aspect of something or someone and disapprove of different aspect. And both at the same time. And let's spice things up and say 'to different degrees' as well.

Everybody's entitled to criticise. People will take them to task and ask them to explain themselves, and if their criticism is worthwhile, people might listen, even if they don't agree. If their criticism is bollocks, then it'll die a natural death in its infancy.

Your attitude is massively intolerant.

And another thing. My personal opinion on here has no influence whatsoever in the great scheme of things, and if you think different and that any of this is really any more than a bit of fun, you're mad. Other than Phil Scraton, Rushian and the mods, Tomkins, Tony Barrett and maybe a handful of others, every one of our individual opinions on this board is a fart in the fog, nothing more. Any ordinary Bulletin Board poster who thinks they're more significant than that is deluded in the extreme. Did you hear the "Rafa" chants at the end of the game tonight? Maybe you're being paranoid when it comes to Internet criticisms of the manager.

Sure, things like the multibanner and the Cohen Campaign can happen on this site, but it takes people working together and helping each other out. You know? Tolerating each other? People should be responsible for and with their own thoughts and opinions - that's all the staff on here ask for. If they happen to be contrarian, as long as they're not offensive then there's nothing whatsoever wrong with them.

The people on the other side of your imaginary 'fence' come across a lot saner than you. Rossi, Walshy's Mullet, and a load of other posters don't hate Rafa - they just feel entitled to criticise and fair play to them - they're consistent and honest about it. If you can't handle that, you're an idiot, frankly.

My mate's Dad was a labourer on the Tay Bridge. His best mate was a tiny Irish bloke who looked like he'd get knocked over with a feather. One day a big bare knuckle boxer who worked on the team leaned over, said "they're the big man's sandwiches", and necked the Irish boy's packed lunch. The Irish boy got up, smacked him in the puss, and sparked him out. When he got up, the big lad went for him again, and the Irish boy sparked him out again. When the guy came to, the Irish boy said "don't get up son".

That night they went out for a pint and were friends for the rest of their life.

I'd recommend taking an old fashioned leaf out of those two's book. Anyway, back to feeling happy. If you don't like edgier posts, just ignore them, that's my advice.

Royhendo, you win. The last thing I want to do is to pick a squabble with someone I admire on this site.

And I say 'this site' because I mean it. When I'm here reading and responding to posts here, I'm in this little world of its own operating within its confines, with my "RAWK hat" on. So when this little world is showing signs of losing its sense, I either take off my "RAWK hat" and disconnect, or try to do my bit to restore some sense into it.

Never have I ever been deluded that anything that goes on here in this little world have have a significant impact on the larger world outside. When I said 'lines are being drawn in our ranks' I really meant RAWK ranks, and when I said you're supply the ammunition, I'm referring of course to the random post match twat who now gets to post bollax comments about Rafa not using the media enough or not having the mettle to coach into our team a winning mentality against lesser teams and citing it has the reason we should be seeing the back of him. Yet you've somehow manage to read it otherwise and build your responses along that premise.

You said "If their criticism is bollocks, then it'll die a natural death in its infancy". For that, I have to hand to you for having more faith in humanity than I do. Since the time I've signed for RAWK, I've seen the same old stick still being used to beat Rafa repeated ad nauseum here, and the signs are there it's not going to go away.

In your own words, everybody's entitled to criticise and people will take them to task and ask them to explain themselves. Why does this entitlement apply only to people who criticise Rafa? Why is it now that the scale is finanly tipping and more here are questioning the validity of these criticisms with well-thought out rebuttals, it equates to the rise of zealotry?

Back to the subject of fundamentalism and intolerance: All I did was to highlight to you that a majority of Rafa supports have faith that is based on logic, not on some religious zeal. Before your bringing up of this alleged dichotomy, I never was able to distinguish if someone putting up a good word for Rafa in response to an unfair criticism here was being logical or a plain zealot, because most of the time, they'd pick out past examples to demonstrate how contradictory the criticism was in the first place. Yes and this includes the criticisms leveled out by Rossi, Walshy's Mullet, etc. Wherefore this zealotry that I've missed? Or is this fundamentalism theory of yours a fundamentalism in its own right?

"You're a massive mental weirdo.", "Your attitude is massively intolerant.", "If you can't handle that, you're an idiot, frankly". On the surface, royhendo, it would seem that you're the one not tolerating a reasonable post. And all this because I dared to refute your point about the rise in zealotry in Rafa supports, or speak up against unfair criticisms in the past? Tch. Thanks for spoiling my mood after nice whopping display by our lads. Fortunately for me I get to click the close icon on this little world and switch to MPC-HC re-watch the match on my big screen tv.

[royhendo]

In your own words, everybody's entitled to criticise and people will take them to task and ask them to explain themselves. Why does this entitlement apply only to people who criticise Rafa?

It doesn't. It applies to people who speak their mind and get beaten down for the privilege. That applies on both sides of the equation. The point you're maybe picking up on is that if you come on here and say "I think Rafa ought to be Sainted for his work with the poor in Calcutta" then nobody's going to subject you to ridicule for it. But it's just as much nonsense as the bloke who says "I don't like the way Rafa handles the media". Make that point and count how many people take the time to point out the error of your ways.

Your "Rafarian" blinkers have fallen over your eyes mate.

Why is it now that the scale is finanly tipping and more here are questioning the validity of these criticisms with well-thought out rebuttals, it equates to the rise of zealotry?

I'd recommend the Feedback and Questions board. The mods answer your question just about every week.

For example: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=255340.0