Topic: Round Table Discussion - Liverpool 3-0 Soonalan

[royhendo]

Well, that was nice. James McLean spared us all a wee heart attack, fair enough, but we played very well on the night.

Gerrard was imperious. Sterling's finish was delicious. Suarez was tenacious. Steve Peters put Jordan Henderson into a trance and convinced him he was Pele. Downing gave his full back a proper test. Joe Allen looked every bit the player we were told about.

And so on.

Pepe made a phenomenal stop too. All in all, you can't complain about any of that, can you? Sunderland didn't show up... or did we stop them from getting into the game?

One point worth making. The passing, and the increasing use of disguised balls and balls round the corner. It's something that was noticable in the Swansea play at times - patterns of play meant when spaces appeared, players could play the ball into those spaces and be confident that a body in their own coloured shirt would appear there. That's what confidence and familiarity with the patterns will bring, and the craftier players are starting to do that more habitually... or are they? Am I just conjuring all that up in my mind?

Over to you. 

[Corkboy]

Nitpicking time.

Lucas got lost for McLean's run and chance, unless he is under instruction to pass on to the centre backs. He had him, one two, he didn't have him. He isn't perfect and was very good otherwise. McClean took a fortuitous touch to split us and he should have scored. Mind you, Allen put in Suarez late on with a delicious chip for a gorgeous first touch and he should have scored too.

Gerrard does not have eyes in the back of his head. I realise this is nitpicking of the highest order but some players have a swivel head, our captain doesn't. Several times, someone passed him the ball with 120 degrees of 15 yards of empty opposition half behind him and he knocked it straight to our back four. Is it because nobody dares give him a shout? I imagine the opposition back four could think of little worse than Gerrard bearing down on them with Suarez slithering around. Otherwise, he was immense, bullying Sunderland players all over the pitch and spraying passes with aplomb. Is he back?

Suarez has eyes in the back of his head. Or a swivel head. Let's settle on slithery. When he's in the form he is right now, every first touch takes a player out of the game, every thigh separates defender from ball. He is irrepressible, uncontainable, unstoppable, bringing people into play, being an outlet, linking the rest of the team with himself. He is a live power cable running through the team. He works harder than any player on the planet, and he stalks the nightmares of centre halves everywhere. And he is technically brilliant. With a swivel head. On this form, he is the best player in the league.

Downing deserves credit for Suarez' second, he made the run that created the quite alarming gap between the Sunderland centre halves. Johnson was a constant and classy influence on the game and Sterling finished beautifully for the first (although Suarez' no-look hook pass made the moment). Reina made a few good saves and I enjoyed Allen's Iniesta impersonation. It was a very good game for pretty much every Liverpool player, an ideal performance and result.

Home game against a bottom half team, though. Let's not go mad.

[Gnurglan]

3-0 and a very impressive performance.

Again, we dominated the game from start to finish. Kept the ball, moved it around, limited their chances and as soon as we got the second goal, it was more or less game over. Once we get to play, we have a good side. And when we have Suarez in the current form, he's real top quality. That ball for Sterling was good (and it was a good finish too). It's exactly the kind of runs we need to help Suarez when he drops deep. It gives us another threat and Sterling is one who knows how to make use of it. For the third, it was a great ball from Gerrard and another quality finish from Suarez, but I have to give a bit of praise to Downing as well. For a change, he made one of those runs that we've seen from Sterling and Borini. Pulled the defender away and opened up for Suarez.

Have to give some praise to Wisdom as well. He's acting like he's been a first team regular for a long time. That's really impressive. He just gets on with business. He'll get his tough times eventually, but he's done well and like Suso, he's been given a good introduction. They're both kept away from the spotlight, while they've given solid performances.

When we get to play, we look really good. I was surprised Sunderland didn't try to put pressure on us more often. That said, when they tried, we managed to counter-attack with ease. Games and performances like tonight's fill me with confidence. That once we get things to work, we have a real quality team in the making.

I'm still not sure where we stand. The whole season I've had this impression that we have qualities, but we're also having real weaknesses. We'll see. But 8-7-6. Another 8 wins from the remaining 17 games and we'll have shown CL form for at least the second half of the season. Tough, but not impossible.

[Aristotle]

That was quite fun. 6 wins in 8 games since the Spurs game [sidenote - what do we make of wins and losses vs. too many draws?]. Game was quite fun. Suarez is just wonderful, there aren't enough words in the language to describe the man with justice. I'd not take any player in the world over him. Turning point was the Sunderland miss. If that went in we'd been crushed, you could see the collective relief on every single player on the pitch, even Suarez. But once our obligatory brainfart was out of the way it was game over. It was one of those games where you'd have felt that a 5+ goal difference and a Suarez hat-trick would've been underwhelming. Two goals chalked off for offside that was spitting in the face of the general rule of giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt.


I'll leave it at this one. Since I know it's Roy's favourite Scot and RAWK favourite player of yesteryear. Steven Gerrard in the past 6 weeks has been the player Kenny thought he was getting in Charlie Adam. Inconsistent - yet brilliantly effective. Can spot and make a 60 yard pass without breaking a sweat - yet be completely ignorant of the player bearing down on him behind. Needs a reliant midfielder to cope with his brainfarts and lack of pace yet equally unstoppable in full sprint once that laboured acceleration is finally underway. There were signs of his detrimental injuries tonight. In the 7th (I think) minute when the ball falls to Gerrard just oustide the 'D' and he passed it to Wisdom. And you could see it as well in the shots that he took that the Mach 5 shots that once defined him will be reserved for the Manc and Merseyside derbies when pain is irrelevant.

More of the same please. His current form is showing humility and self-awareness that I frankly didn't think he had in him. It seems as he's finally accepting his fate and learning to, slowly, let go of his grip. The ultimate catch 22 of Luis Suarez. A privilege to have in your team and heartbreaking to think that you once held that position. My humble pie will still need a few more weeks in the oven before consumption.

And that pass

[royhendo]

So Henderson's energy further up the pitch. Did that enable pressure on the Sunderland back 6 that they couldn't manage? Gardner for example made several poor choices. Are we seeing a player emerge now?

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

It's not just Hendo, Rodgers is getting far more out of Downing too and both players were instrumental in the harrying to distraction of a normally well organised Sunderland defensive unit. It's a good managerial trait that, getting the best out of what appeared to be flops. It's good that he is open minded enough to reevaluate them after seemingly writing them off in the summer too.

Just to pick up again on the inconsistency thing from the last Round Table. I thought we started today far slower than we did against Villa. If McClean finishes and Sterling doesn't  If the ref gives a foul on Suarez and Reina gets beaten on his near post instead of magicking the ball away then we have a similar result. Instead we once again got a platform and our play in the second half was some of the most entertaining I've seen from us for years. Hugely enjoyable stuff.

We are still a brittle work in progress but really I think we have got to the point now where any idiot drawing comparisons with Hodgson or claiming there is no sign of progression should be simply banned for being a footballing dunce.

We still don't know if BR can address that innate fragility and if he cannot then we will frustrate as often as delight but if in the moments when it all works you cannot see glimpses of a potentially fantastic future then a trip to specsavers might be in order.

[Phil M]

We still don't know if BR can address that innate fragility and if he cannot then we will frustrate as often as delight but if the moments when it all works you cannot see glimpses of a potentially fantastic future then a trip to specsavers might be in order.

Indeed. I firmly believe even if McLean had scored with that chance at 1-0 we'd have gone on to win. Funny how our best form has been broken by two seperate 3-1 defeats, you would hope lessons have been learned however.
The manager has a very difficult job picking a first eleven heading to Old Trafford. Obviously we have an important Cup game to get out of the way first but barring injury I don't envy him having to select the next XI given how well Jordan Henderson is playing, the rejuvenated Joe Allen and the left attacking slot being retaken somewhat by Stewart Downing.
It was very pleasing to see how much space we can create by Agger bringing it forward and pushing Johnson and at times Wisdom on.

[Cpt_Reina]

Again, as was the case against Fulham and QPR recently, I thought Sunderland were poor.

Nowhere near as poor as those previous teams, but poor nonetheless.

But that's not to say we didnt play well. Because we did. Sunderland seemed to have done little to no scouting in regards to those previous fixtures because if they had they would have have realised that you simply cannot give Gerrard the time and space he was afforded.

He was given the freedom of Anfield last night was Gerrard. And just like against Fulham, he punished the opposition.

It's negligent to give a player of his quality that much time. Especially when he's also perhaps not all that adept in the role when he doesnt have it.

Thankfully O'Neal put Sessegnon in that role behind Fletcher, and he could be less arsed about closing down the opposition ditto Campbell who came on latterly.

It allowed Gerrard to prod, poke and generally do as he pleased in there. To devastating effect. I'd be very surprised to see the Mancs give him such freedom in 2 weeks time however. That will be a much better barometer of how he's going to fare in that role. He's been outstanding these last few weeks. But he's been allowed to be. Much tougher tests lie ahead, it’ll be very interesting to see whether he can maintain his form. If he does then we could be on to something. Especially with Allen coming on and looking very lively in that advanced role.

Henderson was nae too bad in there either.

But im not going to take too much away from the lads though. We played well above average in this game.

Suarez in particular was a cut above, as he so often is.

Was nice to see Wisdom come in and not miss a beat. He was hardly tested if we’re honest, but he did everything he needed to. Our right hand side was very productive in that first half.

Reina went about his business effectively.

I do think Lucas is still way off his best however. He’s going to need nursing along and a few allowances being made for him until he gets there.

All in all it was a great game of football. Adding Sturridge to the mix cant hurt can it?

[Hinesy]

It's not just Hendo, Rodgers is getting far more out of Downing too and both players were instrumental in the harrying to distraction of a normally well organised Sunderland defensive unit. It's a good managerial trait that, getting the best out of what appeared to be flops. It's good that he is open minded enough to reevaluate them after seemingly writing them off in the summer too.

Its a very good point. Downing dragging the defender away makes Stevie's pass look glorious, rather than a lump upfield. Of course I doubt he would've done it if there was no space, but this appears to be the best way to get the best out of Gerrard. He still picks and chooses when to run and when not to, and actually I'm wondering if he needs protection in front[/i[] of him, like a quarterback has, when chucking the ball, (or whatever that bloke who throws it is called) so he can choose the pass and finally dictate the play. He's never really been one of those players like Alonso, but maybe now's the time to concentrate on that given his stamina will eventually tire.

I thought Sktrtel still forgets to use his head occasionally, and I think that Sterling needs a lot of 'under pressure' training. His lob was lovely but I made a cup of tea in the time he had, whereas the later effort was almost a cross...

Still, Sunderland have been a bogey draw team at home, and O'Neill's teams are usually well drilled. Makes me ask, is that us, or them that made that disappear.

[Not A Scouser]

Thumping bad teams is a nice change.  In each of these recent big victories I have heard that the opposition were really bad.  After a while, if that keeps happening then it must surely mean that we are making teams look really bad.  Death by football.  It helps if the other team is too tired to press.

Our struggles this season have been when pressed, or when the opposition gets an early goal and gets us on the counter.  I don't know what Martin O'Neil's plan was, but his team didn't do either.  The first goal for us is really, really important because then it means that the patient possession game is in our favour.  Possession is what stood out for me last night, it was so comfortable, and perhaps that is what made Sunderland look so tired in the second half.

Rodgers has talked about patience with the ball creating chances and that's what happened last night.  Our main attacks (and all three goals) were very quick, very direct movements into what were acres of space, but those acres of space were created by pulling Sunderland out of position and making intelligent runs.  There was no hoofing but some very direct play.

That was what Rodges wants us to look like, and we are starting to look like that more often. The next step is making good teams look really bad on the night.

[Anywhichwayicant]

One thing I learned from the game, Sunderland haven't watched us all season.

[FlashingBlade]

Few close moments for Sunderland which proved two important things....with the first chance , lady luck is with us and I like her a lot! she should visit more oftern....and the second,  Reina blew away the cobwebs and pulled off an excellent save at a crucial time in game...as for the rest , a very proffesional performance which for once I felt everyone knew their role and perfomed it.....this has to be the base line for all league preformances for rest of season, relapses and below par should no longer be tolerated, these players have demonstrated they can play at a level, they and the management owe it to us to strive and deliver that for everygame.

Oh, and Sunderland fans singing 'sign on' (like Newcastle and Boro have before them) show that any sort of communal social 'working class' awareness in football fans is truly dead. Fucking knobheads and traitors to their own communities and traditions.

[TepidT2O]

We have been much much more effective on the break of late.


The runs players are making are far more intelligent and we're hitting them much quicker rather than passing and passing and passing.

Now, it helps that we went 1 up early on, but we are still much improved, much more dynamic and much more dangerous when countering now.


For me gerrard is a key.

We have tinkered with the system to give him more space and time on the ball, when this works he is hurting teams. My concern here is that a smart manager can easily find a way to deny him space/time in his new position and nullify his effect.

Interesting use if the front 3 also.  Downing acting far more as a winger and sterling being closer to Suarez, cutting in more than downing and acting more as a striker.

[Corkboy]

One thing I learned from the game, Sunderland haven't watched us all season.

One thing I learned from the post match thread, you didn't watch the game.

Shame we couldn't keep the clean sheet, but other than that, a great night's work.

[redmark]

On the point of Sunderland being poor, they had a good spell for the first 15 minutes or so, created a couple of chances and had us under some pressure. I remember thinking Gerrard looked tired at the start of the game and things could have gone rather differently.

I think we made them look poor after that; it was almost a textbook demonstration of Rodgers' philosophy of passing them to a standstill. The tempo and slickness of the passing wore them down and to some degree forced them to stop pressing high, because they were getting bypassed. After that, once a bit of space has been 'won' from the opposition, Gerrard is as good a midfield general as there is in the league. Suarez is absolutely unplayable at the moment, and as formidable a forward I've seen since a couple of hot spells Torres enjoyed. Probably Henderson's best performance for the club; not just his energy, but some moments of real ability (for instance, the first time sweeping pass to Downing on the break). Allen looked good in that role too when he came on.

Perhaps tiredness, but Sterling and Suso maybe just showing that they are still kids - as the rest of the team improves, they've been left behind just slightly as we see what real quality pros look like at their best. Speaking of at their best, Lucas isn't just yet - still a little rusty with a couple of clumsy moments, but improving by the game.

Overall though, everyone played at least pretty well, but the lasting impression is of slick high tempo team play. As it should be.

[redmark]

Interesting use if the front 3 also.  Downing acting far more as a winger and sterling being closer to Suarez, cutting in more than downing and acting more as a striker.

We've sort of tried to do that for a few years now under different managers, with different players, but last night was one of the best executions. It fits naturally having that player cut in from the right, because both Gerrard and Henderson can drift to that side and provide some width if necessary, along with the fullback. It's also complemented on the left with having the right-footed Johnson there, drifting inside Downing and attacking the box. That sort of movement at tempo in attack must be exhausting for the defence over a period of time.

[micksmith]

So Henderson's energy further up the pitch. Did that enable pressure on the Sunderland back 6 that they couldn't manage? Gardner for example made several poor choices. Are we seeing a player emerge now?

For me this is definitely the case. Henderson needs to be that third man in midfield who can offer support and stability to both the attacking and defending CM's whether we have possession on the ball or not.

His workrate off the ball would have definitely allowed us to put an increased pressure on a player like Gardner, who has been effective for Sunderland this season. I wouldn't have been too surprised if Brendan also ear-marked Gardner as a key player for them, making it aware to our player5rs that we need to close him down efficiently.

[Calciotore]

Some really good posts and observations here.

It's certainly true that we're SO much better as a team when we're leading in a game.After a well-worked goal from Sterling they had THAT chance..

..is it just me or have every other team in the last two seasons (..or perhaps longer..?) taken that chance..? Well,thankfully they didn't and after a collective huge sigh of relief we kept on working and prodding/probing at their back four and the second goal really gave us some extra belief and confidence.

What a lovely half time it was.

There were definite similarities last night in the Villa game.It could have been very different if they scored their couple of good chances and Reina actually made a save worthy of the name.

Henderson looked full of energy in an advanced pressing/harassing role and Joe Allen (for me at least) had his best impact on a game since he joined us.I'm no fucking expert but those two players looked happy and comfortable in their roles last night.More of the same PLEASE!

Also,I loved the fact that we were patient in the second half and not trying to force the play so much in their final third (a major problem in last seasons team in my opinion),again what a difference being a few goals ahead makes to the collective performance.

A very pleasant,enjoyable night at Anfield.

Y.N.W.A

[Fuzion6]

So Henderson's energy further up the pitch. Did that enable pressure on the Sunderland back 6 that they couldn't manage? Gardner for example made several poor choices. Are we seeing a player emerge now?

What I really liked was the intelligence Henderson and Gerrard combined with. Jordan would press like a maniac up the field without the ball...but then when we have the ball and Steven would move forward, Hendo would just drop back seamlessly. I thought it was fantastic - use Henderson's pressing ability up the field and act as Gerrard's "legs", and then when we have posession either Jordan continues up or he just steps back and switches with Steven. Henderson is the only guy with the stamina in our squad who can play such a role but perhaps this is exactly what we need to fit Gerrard in the system?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Before I post (because I'm still working on it), quick question - what formation does everyone think we were playing? Not in terms of the team sheet, but just in terms of the roles players took up and the spaces they operated in? It was an interesting game for that question alone.

[royhendo]

2-8

[wasp29]

Watched  your last couple of matches and you looked impressive both times . Looks like the villa and stoke were the exception rather then the norm . Consistancy  the key  now , although thats been the case all season .

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Oh, and Sunderland fans singing 'sign on' (like Newcastle and Boro have before them) show that any sort of communal social 'working class' awareness in football fans is truly dead. Fucking knobheads and traitors to their own communities and traditions.

Was thinking precisely that at the game, fucking gang of gobshites.

[redmark]

Before I post (because I'm still working on it), quick question - what formation does everyone think we were playing? Not in terms of the team sheet, but just in terms of the roles players took up and the spaces they operated in? It was an interesting game for that question alone.

IMO; without the ball (and when starting to build):

Suarez

Downing                                                     <<< Sterling

Henderson

Lucas               Gerrard

Johnson         Agger           Skrtel           Wisdom

When sustaining possession, something like:

<<< Suarez >>>

                    Sterling

Downing                Henderson                   Wisdom

Johnson               Gerrard

Agger             Lucas              Skrtel

Johnson's attacking position was interesting, in that he was ending up almost as an extra central midfielder, usually well inside Downing. Wisdom was virtually wide right for spells, possibly a result of Sunderland's weaknesses.

It changed somewhat after the substitutions began, as first Henderson and then Suso played a less forward role on the right, and Gerrard switched to left of the central two.

[PhaseOfPlay]

2-8

[007.lankyguy]

Before I post (because I'm still working on it), quick question - what formation does everyone think we were playing? Not in terms of the team sheet, but just in terms of the roles players took up and the spaces they operated in? It was an interesting game for that question alone.

Admittedly I haven't watched the whole game yet and so can't make a proper judgement but I still think we're playing a 4-2-3-1 really. And not one in the Rafa sense. Instead of dropping back into two lines of four when we lose the ball, we're trying to retain the 4-2-3-1 shape with the 'wingers' onto the full backs instead of dropping into a line of four.

As you say, it's an interesting one. The wide players' positions almost looks like we're playing 4-2-1-3 in attack so there's an argument for that. Sometimes we have all the front four parallel between the lines so we look like a 2-4-4 in possession. Overall I'd say 4-2-3-1

[Geormajesty]

I'm wondering if he needs protection in front of him, like a quarterback has, when chucking the ball, (or whatever that bloke who throws it is called) so he can choose the pass and finally dictate the play. He's never really been one of those players like Alonso, but maybe now's the time to concentrate on that given his stamina will eventually tire.

I think he does, and that's what Henderson and Allen's stamina and energy give you as the advanced midfielder and why I'd hope one of them does start there against United.

I'd be interested to see a midfield three of Allen-Gerrard-Henderson, similar to the way Juventus set up currently, with Gerrard dictating the play and Allen and Henderson providing the energy alongside.

[John C]

I don't think Sunderland were as bad as QPR, we were just too good. It was a game when everything knitted and flowed as if to a plan.
I do feel that Adam Johnson didn't exploit Sterling or Wisdom at all, if there was a chance to worry us it may have been down that flank - but he had an insignificant game and we covered the two youngsters well.
That's as good as I can wish for us to play, solid all over the pitch although I have to be honest and suggest Sterling was not at the same level as the others. Apart from a good run and a perfectly measured dink, he was not "fantastic" like some posted last night or am I wrong? Later in the game he had a chance which he fluffed and didnt really get past them a lot.

On the whole though the team went about the game at a level above all other performances this season including Norwich. From the fluidity, technical ability, penetrative prowess to taking 5 chances, albeit two were disallowed (cruelly). It was a highly motivated product.

I don't fault Lucas for McLean getting in, it was simply a good football 1-2 which neither he or Skrtel could deal with. Shit can happen. It was interesting that Sunderland didn't enjoy any decent spell of possession, usually every team gives 10 or 15 mins of pressure but we were simply far too good as a unit. Quite simply, we battered them.

Suarez has become the equivalent of a heat-seeking missile in which the ball is the bomb and the oppositions net takes the damage - awesome.

Accolades must be given to the intricate play from all the players and indeed subs, they all contributed wonderfully to a superb display. Henderson put in a performance to rock his doubters.

And as for our heroic captain, apart from his Igor Biscan moment he was energised, revitalised showed the PL how to play one of the balls of the season - much appreciated by the world class receiver.

Before I post (because I'm still working on it), quick question - what formation does everyone think we were playing? Not in terms of the team sheet, but just in terms of the roles players took up and the spaces they operated in? It was an interesting game for that question alone.

It was so fluid I'm genuinely unsure mate, look forward to your assessment. was it 2-7-1 ?

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

We were great, but the great attacking play highlighted why the centrebacks for us playing in this manner are so important. Agger was fine yesterday, but in my view this system really higights skrtel a weaknesses. He does not deal with stuff decisively, he is rash when one on one, struggles for balance when running the channels, gives stupid free kicks away through rash/stupid challenges . For me we need better .

[lorenzo23]

Only thing i would say is its becoming bit tiresome within Fan base for not giving the team credit, did anyone think maybe we make teams look bad at times? and not just fact they are shit.

I mean at one point in first half it was 80% Liverpool personally thought we dealt with Sunderland well they came prepare to think we would try play through them. Yet most of are success came from hitting them on counter kinda reminded me of 08/09 season switching up the style depending what suited us.

There was few times in game where to just held on to the ball and took buzz out of game. One moment in particular was Reina telling everyone to calm down and held on to the ball that little bit longer only then to do simple ball to Lucas. Think we missed that a lot this season knowing when to attack when to retain possession. 

[rocco]

Sunderland had 2 clear chances that stuck out both times I thought Wisdom let the player get goal side , is that down to the CB or Wisdom ?


Over all I thought our play in the final third has improved/changed? and had to as wasn't quick or direct and aggressive enough
Didn't work at Swansea either in the final third as its we're they broke down losing the ball to the opposition
Has Rodgers re thought his thinking or just the improvement of the likes of Gerrard and Downing to name just 2 add Henderson

Overall a great performance.

[SonsofShankly]

Loved watching the game yesterday. But it cant help but shake off the feeling that it was because Sunderland were extremely poor and we had some moments of utter brilliance. Sunderland were the complete opposite of Stoke the other day, and it showed that given space and time we can murder opponents, but also that when we are closed down high up we seem to struggle.

Also, did anybody else feel that we seem to have an issue with defending crosses/corners/set pieces from an acute angle? Just before the Reina double save, we seemed to have everyone camped inside the box and no one marking the players at the edge of the D- sort of like the Paul Scholes area. And when the second ball goes to that area, everyone seems to rush out, leaving a player unmarked near the goal - which was what happened when the ball fell to their defender and Reina made the block. I just thought that was a bit dangerous. Something like that happened a few seasons back at Anfield when Tevez scored a header from right next to the goal and United won 0-1.

[Eeyore]

It's not just Hendo, Rodgers is getting far more out of Downing too and both players were instrumental in the harrying to distraction of a normally well organised Sunderland defensive unit. It's a good managerial trait that, getting the best out of what appeared to be flops. It's good that he is open minded enough to reevaluate them after seemingly writing them off in the summer too.

Just to pick up again on the inconsistency thing from the last Round Table. I thought we started today far slower than we did against Villa. If McClean finishes and Sterling doesn't  If the ref gives a foul on Suarez and Reina gets beaten on his near post instead of magicking the ball away then we have a similar result. Instead we once again got a platform and our play in the second half was some of the most entertaining I've seen from us for years. Hugely enjoyable stuff.

We are still a brittle work in progress but really I think we have got to the point now where any idiot drawing comparisons with Hodgson or claiming there is no sign of progression should be simply banned for being a footballing dunce.

We still don't know if BR can address that innate fragility and if he cannot then we will frustrate as often as delight but if in the moments when it all works you cannot see glimpses of a potentially fantastic future then a trip to specsavers might be in order.

Is it progression though Kev or have we actually tweaked the system slightly and changed the emphasis slightly into a style of play that better suits the players we have at the managers disposal. Reina is kicking the ball more, the centre backs aren't dropping to the corner flags, Allen isn't picking the ball up just outside our box as much and crucially for me Gerrard isn't waiting 7 or 8 passes before he gets on the ball.

We are now attacking a stretched defence instead of a set one and the front three are getting the ball in space instead of being double bubbled. The slow predictable deep sideways passing has been replaced by Gerrard taking half of their team out of the game whenever they try and squeeze us.

We have become far more progressive and we are passing the ball in a way that hurts teams instead of passing for passings sake. For me Suarez is now getting the kind of service that Gerrard benefitted in 08-09 from Alonso.

He is getting the ball in between the lines before teams get compact. Far too often this season Suarez has had to drop into midfield to get on the ball.

[RhosRed]

Sunderland didn't show up... or did we stop them from getting into the game?

This is the one question for me? Is it teams not showing up or are we stopping them turning up?

On a more positive slant we looked brilliant didnt we. Every player stepped up to the mark, they all look like they want be fight for the Liverpool shirt, its been a while since Ive felt like I can say that about every player on the park!

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

The showing up of teams does not matter for me. Fulham, QPR and now Sunderland never turned. That's what happens to united for 60% of games and the majority of home games. What matters is how you destroy them. Very positive signs there for me.

[Garcepticon]

It's a good managerial trait that, getting the best out of [players]what appeared to be flops. It's good that he is open minded enough to reevaluate them after seemingly writing them off in the summer too.

Unless we are absolutely certain that we can get someone in better to replace him I wouldn't sell Downing this window. Which is a huge turnaround from earlier in the season, when I didn't really see what value he brought to the team.

On the bolded bit, that is ultimately what a manager has to do and Rodgers is doing it well with quite a few players in the squad - but I think a thread and wider discussion on who has improved under Rodgers will have to wait for the end of the season.

Great rotation from Rodgers for the past two games, he has given Allen, Shelvey, Lucas, Henderson, Skrtel and Sterling a rest. Gerrard was unbelievable, his passing was brilliant and if teams sit off him he is going to absolutely murder them which is a brilliant tool to have in our locker. Allen really grew into his cameo role and his disallowed finish was a clinical hit - crucially, the positions he got in for his near post miss and aforementioned disallowed goal are really encouraging signs of attacking positioning. I am really interested to see how our midfield develops from here on out.

I really haven't rated Sturridge during his career, and that might be because he was playing for Chelsea in hindsight, but the more I think -the more he could be a real moneyball signing a £12 million forward who has bags of physical and technical attributes. Sort out his 'attitude' (I doubt it is that bad) and we have one hell of a prospect. But just imagine the daggers Suarez is going to give him if he makes poor decisions around him (as his reputation suggests he might) - he looked like he wanted to hit Suso.

[Eeyore]

I don't know whether it's teams showing up or its whether it's teams being equipped to hurt us. We seem to make easy work of teams that lack pace and power upfront. Fulham, QPR and Sunderland have lacked the pace and power to hurt us whilst Spurs, Villa and Stoke haven't.

We look better when we suck teams up the pitch and counter than when they do it to us.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

I don't know whether it's teams showing up or its whether it's teams being equipped to hurt us. We seem to make easy work of teams that lack pace and power upfront. Fulham, QPR and Sunderland have lacked the pace and power to hurt us whilst Spurs, Villa and Stoke haven't.

We look better when we suck teams up the pitch and counter than when they do it to us.

Pace and power are two things our centrebacks have been protected from for ages with a deep back line.

[Not A Scouser]

Phaseofplay had a great piece on the possibility of three at the back shoring up our defence.  In that thread the idea of a deeper full back was given as one possible solution.  It seemed to me that Wisdom, as per usual with him, played much deeper than Johnson, even tucking in more effectively providing three at the back a lot of the time.  Deliberate or just how Wisdom plays? 

Also, the "wingers" both were on the side of their stronger foot (Downing left, Sterling right), and stayed that way almost throughout the game.  Often, particularly earlier in the season, they would be the other way around.  Was this so Johnson could come inside Downing onto his stronger foot?  Was it to spread the centre backs for Suarez to attack right down the middle (he seemed to stay in the middle more than usual)?  Was it for Downing to be able to play the full back role if Johnson got caught up field?  All of the above?  Am I talking nonsense?

[Twelfth Man]

Just to pick up again on the inconsistency thing from the last Round Table. I thought we started today far slower than we did against Villa. If McClean finishes and Sterling doesn't  If the ref gives a foul on Suarez and Reina gets beaten on his near post instead of magicking the ball away then we have a similar result. Instead we once again got a platform and our play in the second half was some of the most entertaining I've seen from us for years. Hugely enjoyable stuff.

I think your right, despite what I said in the last QPR round table. Goals give us the platform (!). Increase our goal threat and get a goal before the opposition score and the system performs so much better in getting in-behind space. Stoke and West Ham away being the anomalies. Liverpool sides for perhaps a decade or more have struggled to dispatch the so-called 'small teams', we now can do it without even getting out of second gear it seems. Add greater goal threat, as Rodgers alludes in interviews and we can hopefully start getting results against teams in the top half of the table. Still a little concerned about whether we have the quality and character to deal with an early goal against, teams would then be content to defend and counter, our weakness, hopefully Sturridge and Ince and added goal threat will help.