Topic: Taylor Swift

[gazzalfc]

What is the most number of songs by the same artist that has been in the top 10 charts at the same time? 

[alonsoisared]

She is a pop star. If you're not exposing yourself to her catalogue of music then I can understand why you are hearing things like Shake It Off, Karma, Love Story, 22, We Are Never, Ever Getting Back Together and thinking wtf?

I have always maintained in this thread that the stuff above - the 'glitter pen' music, is not her best. But for whatever reason, herself or her label decide that's what the single is or that's what will go on radio.

But she will always, always be more than those songs. All of her best work is in her albums. I have plenty of time for Karma or WANEGBT in the right moment but it's not a fair reflection of who she is as an artist. Some of those songs are pop bangers/classics - Style, Blank Space, Anti Hero etc... no doubt and I do think lyrically they track.

She one catagorised herself and her music into 3 sections/vibes which maybe does help explain a bit more on who she is. She self-catagorised her music into 'Fountain Pen' / 'Quill Pen' or 'Glitter Gel Pen' lyrics:

“Most of my lyrics are ‘Fountain Pen’ lyrics,” Swift said in a statement with Apple. “They’re modern personal stories, written like poetry, about those moments you remember all too well where you can see, hear, and feel everything in screaming detail.”

“Glitter Gel Pen songs have lyrics that make you want to dance, sing and toss glitter around the room,” Swift continued. “They remind you not to take yourself too seriously, which is something we all need to hear these days. Quill Pen songs are songs with lyrics that make you feel all old fashioned, like you’re a 19th century poet crafting your next sonnet by candlelight.”

So I think, for those people who don't actively seek out and listen to her music they are exposed to the 'glitter pen' songs and get a bit lost/confused when people reference her storytelling and lyricism, as they will be referring to the 'Fountain Pen / Quill Pen' songs mainly.

That's how I see it.

Of course there are plenty of people who will have heard it all and don't like it and that's all well and good and is their right. As with the folks who maybe only love the glitter pen stuff.

EDIT: Also, I'm not trying to dig you out but "She is a pop star with pretty uncomplicated songs and lyrics aimed at her teenage fanbase (I cringe every time Karma comes on, karma is a cat, really?!)" sounds just like an example of someone who hasn't heard much beyond the glitter stuff, as I was saying. Because she is absolutely not just a pop star with uncomplicated lyrics aimed at her teenager fanbase. I can understand why you think Karma is that, but Karma is one song out of a catalogue of hundreds she has written. I think you'd be surprised at how assorted her listening fanbase is - male, female, young, old.

That's a very thoughtful reply. I do indeed feel like a miserable prick now

Fair points, too. You do have to delve deeper than the lead singles. The way she describes her writing in your quotes there is interesting but, miserable prick alert, its another thing i find a bit jarring. Is she really a tortured artist?  A poet? Don't people usually get labelled as those things by other people rather than by themselves? She just seems to...rate herself very highly? You can tell she imagines herself as being a 19th century poet crafting her next sonnet by candlelight when she writes bland lyrics about men who smoke cigarettes but it never feels as deep as she seems to think it is.

I don't know. It feels to me like the industry has hyped her up beyond any logical means, everyone goes along for the ride and Swift herself believes her own hype. She is a talented pop star, but I can't accept that she's producing some of the best music ever written, based on all her singles on the radio. Perhaps I'll listen to the album tonight and give it a proper chance

I'm glad you've enjoyed the album, we all have different tastes and it's a really special feeling when an artist you love releases new music and you get to discover it track by track, picking out your favourites, going through the lyrics etc. Not trying to spoil the excitement and enjoyment and I accept she does have much broader appeal than a teenage fanbase as I incorrectly wrote before.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

They just had 3 Taylor swift look a likes on this morning, this morning and I’m starting to think people don’t quite grasp what a fucking lookalike is. They could have had Burt Reynolds sat there and they’d all be lapping it up.

*insert Mugatu crazy gif*

And god knows what that fella was who was sat with em. Dermot O’Leary said ‘You’ve got that Joe Pasquale vibe going on’ hahaha bet he was gutted. Bet he thinks he’s Bono or Robert Downey Jr or something


https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1890160/this-morning-viewers-slam-show-taylor-swift-segment

[Crosby Nick]

One user wrote: “They look nowt like Taylor Swift.”

Some quality journalism there.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

(I cringe every time Karma comes on, karma is a cat, really?!)

Also, just on Karma because I was of the same opinion. I hated it for the first while - the lyrics did make me cringe.

I think when you do look at the bigger picture and the context, maybe it becomes less cringey?

For me, it's clearly about Scooter Braun/Scott Borchetta off the back of the debacle around her masters. If you aren't familiar, her masters were bought by Scooter Braun - someone she didn't have a great relationship with (managed Kanye West during that shit storm for a start, and Bieber who was happy to throw all of that in Taylor's face by goading her on social media) at a time she was trying to buy them herself. He was quite controlling and initially didn't allow her to perform her music (AMAs when she was being honoured was the straw that broke the cameras it seems) and she accused him, and Scott Borchetta (who sold them) of bullying. Then he sold them to an investment fund etc... So there are deep wounds there for Taylor. There is also some Kanye shade in the song too, which is at the heart of the hurt at who they were sold to.

“When I left my masters in Scott’s hands, I made peace with the fact that eventually he would sell them,” she continued. “Never in my worst nightmares did I imagine the buyer would be Scooter. Any time Scott Borchetta has heard the words ‘Scooter Braun’ escape my lips, it was when I was either crying or trying not to. He knew what he was doing; they both did. Controlling a woman who didn’t want to be associated with them. In perpetuity. That means forever.”

If you think of Karma in that context, and in the context of it being a 'glitter pen' song then maybe it makes more sense - she is playfully saying they will get what is coming to them - bad karma whilst juxtaposing her good karma she experiences and what karma means to her. Also, the album this sits on is 'Midnights' and its themes are the things that keep her up at night.

"Spider-boy, king of thieves, weave your little webs of opacity, my pennies made your crown" - Spider-boy (SB), king of theives (he is an owner or part investor of a company called something theives) - all of her hard work making this music and art allowed him to become quite a bit richer as he sold her masters. So straight away we get a sense of who the song is about.

And then the chorus is littered with references to songs/albums of Braun's biggest artists - Bieber and Ariana Grande who at the time were both heavily rumoured to want out of their contracts with him. Not sure if they did but there are too many coincidences in the choruses that relates to them both.

Also, never underestimate Taylor's love of her cats and how absolutely needlessly petty she can be.

So whilst I can see why 'karma is my boyfriend... karma is a cat' etc... would make someone think 'what a load of shit' there is generally something deeper going on.

She will always make songs like these - bops. Ultimately that's who she is as an artist and she does love that kind of pop music.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

That's a very thoughtful reply. I do indeed feel like a miserable prick now

Fair points, too. You do have to delve deeper than the lead singles. The way she describes her writing in your quotes there is interesting but, miserable prick alert, its another thing i find a bit jarring. Is she really a tortured artist?  A poet? Don't people usually get labelled as those things by other people rather than by themselves? She just seems to...rate herself very highly? You can tell she imagines herself as being a 19th century poet crafting her next sonnet by candlelight when she writes bland lyrics about men who smoke cigarettes but it never feels as deep as she seems to think it is.

I don't know. It feels to me like the industry has hyped her up beyond any logical means, everyone goes along for the ride and Swift herself believes her own hype. She is a talented pop star, but I can't accept that she's producing some of the best music ever written, based on all her singles on the radio. Perhaps I'll listen to the album tonight and give it a proper chance

I'm glad you've enjoyed the album, we all have different tastes and it's a really special feeling when an artist you love releases new music and you get to discover it track by track, picking out your favourites, going through the lyrics etc. Not trying to spoil the excitement and enjoyment and I accept she does have much broader appeal than a teenage fanbase as I incorrectly wrote before.

You're not a miserable prick, we just don't know everything about everything and that's OK. It's OK not to like her music or enjoy it. But I don't think anyone at this point can deny that she is an incredible talent and performer, who works incredibly hard.

She isn't a tortured artist. Whilst so many of her songs are autobiographical, there are a lot that aren't. She doesn't mind deliving into characters or stories that she has created. I do think that's kind of important too with her - she gets a lot of headlines for songs because people are obsessed with them being written about X,Y,Z but there are a lot that aren't. She has said she will take inspiration from anywhere - books, film, friends, family - anything.

I don't think she takes herself too seriously. She is an absolute dork to be honest - I think she would admit that. She is fine to poke fun at herself but in isolation I can see why those lines would come across as self-indulgent and superficial. I think she allows herself to lean into other eras and time periods and bring them to life through her stories.

I honestly don't think she would be as big as she is, or last as long as she has if she wasn't producing quality music. To reference your favourite song Karma () - 'ask me what I learned from all those years, ask me what I earned from all those tears, ask me why so many fade, but I'm still here...' Why is she still here? Where are those big artists who were once as big and popular? She has been consistently relevant and popular for almost 20 years now. I don't think you get to do that in the music industry unless you are an incredible artist.

[afc tukrish]

That's a very thoughtful reply. I do indeed feel like a miserable prick now

 

These days, a bit of humo(u)r goes a long way on these boards...

[alonsoisared]

Nice reply again Ciara, appreciate the detail and your obvious passion for the subject! I'm just being a little bit "old man shouts at cloud" I think

How is the album stacking up against her other work, for you?

These days, a bit of humo(u)r goes a long way on these boards...

I'm glad I can bring something to the table

[Snail]

The "proper" album is significantly better than Midnights, imo, and the "secret" album is some of her best work (not surprising since that's Aaron Dessner). I think she needs to part ways with Antonoff for a bit.

I do wish she'd leave poor Joe Alwyn alone now. Matty Healy is fair game, though.

[jillcwhomever]

Also, just on Karma because I was of the same opinion. I hated it for the first while - the lyrics did make me cringe.

I think when you do look at the bigger picture and the context, maybe it becomes less cringey?

For me, it's clearly about Scooter Braun/Scott Borchetta off the back of the debacle around her masters. If you aren't familiar, her masters were bought by Scooter Braun - someone she didn't have a great relationship with (managed Kanye West during that shit storm for a start, and Bieber who was happy to throw all of that in Taylor's face by goading her on social media) at a time she was trying to buy them herself. He was quite controlling and initially didn't allow her to perform her music (AMAs when she was being honoured was the straw that broke the cameras it seems) and she accused him, and Scott Borchetta (who sold them) of bullying. Then he sold them to an investment fund etc... So there are deep wounds there for Taylor. There is also some Kanye shade in the song too, which is at the heart of the hurt at who they were sold to.

“When I left my masters in Scott’s hands, I made peace with the fact that eventually he would sell them,” she continued. “Never in my worst nightmares did I imagine the buyer would be Scooter. Any time Scott Borchetta has heard the words ‘Scooter Braun’ escape my lips, it was when I was either crying or trying not to. He knew what he was doing; they both did. Controlling a woman who didn’t want to be associated with them. In perpetuity. That means forever.”

If you think of Karma in that context, and in the context of it being a 'glitter pen' song then maybe it makes more sense - she is playfully saying they will get what is coming to them - bad karma whilst juxtaposing her good karma she experiences and what karma means to her. Also, the album this sits on is 'Midnights' and its themes are the things that keep her up at night.

"Spider-boy, king of thieves, weave your little webs of opacity, my pennies made your crown" - Spider-boy (SB), king of theives (he is an owner or part investor of a company called something theives) - all of her hard work making this music and art allowed him to become quite a bit richer as he sold her masters. So straight away we get a sense of who the song is about.

And then the chorus is littered with references to songs/albums of Braun's biggest artists - Bieber and Ariana Grande who at the time were both heavily rumoured to want out of their contracts with him. Not sure if they did but there are too many coincidences in the choruses that relates to them both.

Also, never underestimate Taylor's love of her cats and how absolutely needlessly petty she can be.

So whilst I can see why 'karma is my boyfriend... karma is a cat' etc... would make someone think 'what a load of shit' there is generally something deeper going on.

She will always make songs like these - bops. Ultimately that's who she is as an artist and she does love that kind of pop music.

I have never been a particular fan of Taylor, but I really respect the way you treat people Ciara who don't take to her. You have obviously loads of knowledge about her and I respect that you always attempt to debate with those of us who are less keen. I always take an interest in your posts when you are writing about her, perhaps one day I will give her music a real try. 

[Crosby Nick]

Well said Jill. Although I’ll just stick to moaning whenever she comes in the radio about once every half hour on the shite stations my wife and daughter insist we listen to on car journeys.

[jillcwhomever]

Well said Jill. Although I’ll just stick to moaning whenever she comes in the radio about once every half hour on the shite stations my wife and daughter insist we listen to on car journeys.

That's why I don't listen to modern radio they just play songs until you are sick of hearing them. It's like everyone used to go on about the Killers for years before I actually listened to them. When I did I quite liked them and then went to a concert at the Echo Arena. I just hate all the hyping of people, I prefer to listen to people when I am ready too before being "forced to." I will do that with Taylor Swift as well. 

[Bread]

What is the most number of songs by the same artist that has been in the top 10 charts at the same time? 

When Ed Sheeran released Divide in 2017, every one of the 16 songs on that album landed in the UK Top 20, 9 of which were in the top 10. Taylor won't achieve this as I believed it caused a change of rules from the Officials Singles Chart.

[BarryCrocker]

When Ed Sheeran released Divide in 2017, every one of the 16 songs on that album landed in the UK Top 20, 9 of which were in the top 10. Taylor won't achieve this as I believed it caused a change of rules from the Officials Singles Chart.

Swift’s Billboard Hot 100 accolades are just as impressive. She leads all women for the most top five, top 10, top 20 and top 40 hits, as well as overall chart appearances. Plus, she’s the only artist in history to claim all 10 spots of the top 10 at the same time (Nov. 5, 2022, all from Midnights).

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

I have never been a particular fan of Taylor, but I really respect the way you treat people Ciara who don't take to her. You have obviously loads of knowledge about her and I respect that you always attempt to debate with those of us who are less keen. I always take an interest in your posts when you are writing about her, perhaps one day I will give her music a real try. 

Ah thanks! That’s really kind.

As evidenced by other fans in this thread (who are mostly males - unsure of ages but I’d say 30+) - there are a lot of regular people who just enjoy her music. We are not all teenage girls!

More than happy to point anyone in a specific TS direction based on music they generally like. It won’t be for everyone but I do think she has an almost something for everyone. She has catapulted into a different stratosphere in terms of her popularity - I think the pandemic was a big moment in time for her. She released an album - folklore - to much critical success, a folky-indie style record which brought in new fans (older and dare I say it, perhaps more male fans).

 I think the critical success gave her a legitimacy with the general public she didn’t have before. She then followed it up a couple months later with another similar record - evermore - which was brilliant and those new fans and critics are wondering how she has gone back-to-back in this style. Suddenly she has a new fanbase who maybe work backwards and start going into the back catalogue of her lesser known work and see more things they like. And then she announces she is re-recording her early work due to the masters being sold, so she is gaining popularity and respect from more people for forging this path for other artists who are in a similar position.

 These re-records are also nostalgic, bringing back the hits from 10+ years ago so the original fans who loved them and who grew up with her are probably now with kids of an age who will also dig the old stuff and suddenly there’s a brand new younger audience enjoying TS music. I think the genius with the re-records is releasing the unreleased songs with them - it brings a new intrigue and more reason to buy.

By the time she releases Midnights - the first album of all new material since the pandemic - she has gained so many new fans.

And at this time she announces the Eras tour - a tour to celebrate all of her eras (records) which after a pandemic, we are all going to be excited about I think. She had 4 brand new albums she has never toured so I think she always needed to find an interesting way to tour them and so a ‘greatest hits’ tour of sorts was perfect. Then the first show happens and it’s her on stage singing and performing for 3.5 hours… that’s insane. And those parents who are just there to bring their kids, or more casual fans are more impressed and there’s another green shoot of popularity and praise. And if you can’t be there in person, you can go to a cinema to watch it or catch it on streaming. She is able to reach so many people/homes and with that, she’ll pick up new fans all the time.

And that all culminates and brings us to the new TTPD release on Friday. And the streaming data coming through is insane - she is just breaking her own records at this point

And it’s a different album again for her. The first 2 listens for me were strange, it took me a while to get into it but that’s growing now as it becomes more familiar. I definitely love the second set of songs more than the first.

[ljycb]

I am enjoying it. My current favourite track is "Guilty as Sin?" but that will probably change.

[John_P]

Think her popularity has just sky rocketed, I remember for the Reputation and the cancelled Lover tours how relatively easy it was to get tickets. Just a normal presale and that was it. Compared to the military type precision needed to just get into the Eras ticket buying page.

[jillcwhomever]

Ah thanks! That’s really kind.

As evidenced by other fans in this thread (who are mostly males - unsure of ages but I’d say 30+) - there are a lot of regular people who just enjoy her music. We are not all teenage girls!

More than happy to point anyone in a specific TS direction based on music they generally like. It won’t be for everyone but I do think she has an almost something for everyone. She has catapulted into a different stratosphere in terms of her popularity - I think the pandemic was a big moment in time for her. She released an album - folklore - to much critical success, a folky-indie style record which brought in new fans (older and dare I say it, perhaps more male fans).

 I think the critical success gave her a legitimacy with the general public she didn’t have before. She then followed it up a couple months later with another similar record - evermore - which was brilliant and those new fans and critics are wondering how she has gone back-to-back in this style. Suddenly she has a new fanbase who maybe work backwards and start going into the back catalogue of her lesser known work and see more things they like. And then she announces she is re-recording her early work due to the masters being sold, so she is gaining popularity and respect from more people for forging this path for other artists who are in a similar position.

 These re-records are also nostalgic, bringing back the hits from 10+ years ago so the original fans who loved them and who grew up with her are probably now with kids of an age who will also dig the old stuff and suddenly there’s a brand new younger audience enjoying TS music. I think the genius with the re-records is releasing the unreleased songs with them - it brings a new intrigue and more reason to buy.

By the time she releases Midnights - the first album of all new material since the pandemic - she has gained so many new fans.

And at this time she announces the Eras tour - a tour to celebrate all of her eras (records) which after a pandemic, we are all going to be excited about I think. She had 4 brand new albums she has never toured so I think she always needed to find an interesting way to tour them and so a ‘greatest hits’ tour of sorts was perfect. Then the first show happens and it’s her on stage singing and performing for 3.5 hours… that’s insane. And those parents who are just there to bring their kids, or more casual fans are more impressed and there’s another green shoot of popularity and praise. And if you can’t be there in person, you can go to a cinema to watch it or catch it on streaming. She is able to reach so many people/homes and with that, she’ll pick up new fans all the time.

And that all culminates and brings us to the new TTPD release on Friday. And the streaming data coming through is insane - she is just breaking her own records at this point

And it’s a different album again for her. The first 2 listens for me were strange, it took me a while to get into it but that’s growing now as it becomes more familiar. I definitely love the second set of songs more than the first.

I think it's all good that she changes her style from time to time it's a great way to get listened to by more people, as they move into new directions. I have downloaded a couple of her albums to listen too. Since joining Spotify Premier it's been enjoyable to listen to stuff I wouldn't usually listen too before, because now I can. My friend recommended the Lover album and I have just downloaded the Folklore and Fearless one as well. I have enjoyed Lover some interesting songs on that. I need to give it a second listen as well. It's interesting you saying that about the TTPD release, that the second set of songs is better than the first, I recall a reviewer saying the same thing. I am sure I will work my way to that. 

[Schmarn]

So, I'll start by saying that I've only properly listened to the first part of TTPD and I hear from others that the second part is better, but... despite wanting to really like this, I found many of the songs repetitive, almost monotone in places but lacking the character and spirit of Folklore and Evermore which are sonically similar. There are songs I like such as So Long London and Guilty as Sin but to encapsulate my point when Florence Welch cuts in on Florida!! it was like a breath of fresh air.  I expect it will grow on me the more I listen to it and I'm really not someone who needs to hear bangers (indie music is my main thing) but I'm a little underwhelmed so far.

By way of counterpoint, she is clearly experimenting rather than staying in her comfort zone and inevitably it won't always come off or at least not for everyone.

It was also an interesting choice to write more about Matty Healy who is the easiest of targets than the long, slow, faultless death of her relationship with Joe which is more complex and frankly more interesting. Equally I totally understand if she wanted to go lightly there for personal reasons. 

[ToneLa]

Another concept album!

Spoiler

herself

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