Author Topic: Players signed by Rafael Benitez  (Read 164368 times)

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #80 on: November 2, 2009, 12:41:09 pm »
The issue isn't how much he has spent or not spent, but whether he get the best he could with the money available.  In particular the lack of strikers and playmakers is our problem.  He did sell Crouch and Alonso (albeit that they both wanted to go coz he had pissed them off) and replaced them with Keane and an injured AquilaniHe allowed Keane to go.

As regards the media coverage of Rafa's dealings, just remember that United and Arsenal spent less than us (net).  United were of course able to spend big when they needed to.
Ah, another one sucked in. Makes me weep.

Offline robbie96

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #81 on: November 2, 2009, 12:43:50 pm »
We're completely fucked if Rafa is sacked..

Yup! :'(

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Offline cevans16

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #82 on: November 2, 2009, 12:46:58 pm »
Good post!
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #83 on: November 2, 2009, 12:48:11 pm »
Great OP, although Itandje hasn't been released. He was sent to Kavala (sp?) on loan.

Offline Paul JH

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #84 on: November 2, 2009, 12:49:57 pm »
The issue isn't how much he has spent or not spent, but whether he get the best he could with the money available.  In particular the lack of strikers and playmakers is our problem.  He did sell Crouch and Alonso (albeit that they both wanted to go coz he had pissed them off)

How did he piss Crouch off? By asking him to stay many, many times? Crouch wanted to go because he was second fiddle to Torres. Rafa wanted him to stay. When Crouch left, he even SAID he was only leaving for more football, and that there was no beef with the club or manager.
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Offline The Nihilists

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #85 on: November 2, 2009, 12:50:34 pm »
  a serious error in his squad balance. Last year we still won games without a back-up forward as we had a solid back 4 and a brilliant midfield. This year our back 4 is a mess and the midfield is weaker, thus making us more suscpetible to defeat and less able to win in the absence of Torres/Gerrard.



But this summer he thought he had the Alonso, Arbeloa, Leto AND Keane money to spend.

He ended up having roughly half of it all.

He wanted Upson and Turner, two very big and reliable English defenders, and got Kyrgiakos, as he only had £2m to spend!

Offline robbie96

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #86 on: November 2, 2009, 12:50:36 pm »
The issue isn't how much he has spent or not spent, but whether he get the best he could with the money available.  In particular the lack of strikers and playmakers is our problem.  He did sell Crouch and Alonso (albeit that they both wanted to go coz he had pissed them off) and replaced them with Keane and an injured Aquilani.  He allowed Keane to go.

As regards the media coverage of Rafa's dealings, just remember that United and Arsenal spent less than us (net).  United were of course able to spend big when they needed to.

Honestly *shakes head*

Do you really want a player who "rolls his eyes" , "berates other team mates on the pitch" , and "throws a fit when subbed" ..... I don't .....he'd be "poison" in a locker room ..... success comes from TEAM HARMONY!!!!  ala Spanish NT ;D

and Crouch - Rafa revived his career ....he left for "first team football" which he had a Pompey - now he prefers to sit on Spurs bench - can't fault ambition or lack of.....
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Offline incredibleL4ever

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #87 on: November 2, 2009, 12:57:58 pm »
Ah, another one sucked in. Makes me weep.

I would just like people to be honest in the debate and stick to the facts.
On this thread is sys Rafa spent 84m net and in the same time frame United spent 34.5m.  Of course this is due to the stupid fee they got for Ronaldo, but the fact is they got that fee.

Everyone here sees it as black and white..either Rafa is useless or Rafa is the best manager ever.  IMHO he is somewhere in between.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #88 on: November 2, 2009, 12:58:50 pm »
I don't go along with this "net spend" stuff.

Lets say for example Rafa sold Bellamy for 8 mill and bought Dossena for 8 mill..net spend nil.

You can't excuse bad signings by saying look he only spent 16mill net spend per season or whatever.

I sold me car for 10k and bought another for 10.5k and it turned out to be a shed...still it only cost me £500...well thats OK then

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #89 on: November 2, 2009, 12:59:22 pm »
I would just like people to be honest in the debate and stick to the facts.
So would I. Which is why your post made me weep. It didn't stick to the facts, ignored a load of extenuating circumstances and was almost exclusively based on conjecture.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #90 on: November 2, 2009, 01:00:21 pm »
I don't go along with this "net spend" stuff.
Of course you don't. A cursory read of your posts explains exactly why, too.

How can you ignore something so obviously important?

Offline incredibleL4ever

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #91 on: November 2, 2009, 01:01:32 pm »
Honestly *shakes head*

Do you really want a player who "rolls his eyes" , "berates other team mates on the pitch" , and "throws a fit when subbed" ..... I don't .....he'd be "poison" in a locker room ..... success comes from TEAM HARMONY!!!!  ala Spanish NT ;D

and Crouch - Rafa revived his career ....he left for "first team football" which he had a Pompey - now he prefers to sit on Spurs bench - can't fault ambition or lack of.....

Just like we should not get rid of Rafa unless we have a better alternative in mind....and I can't think of anyone better who would be available.....we should not sell players unless we have better alternatives coming in.  Crouch would be a good alternative if Torres is not available or we want to "change the game".  I am not a Keane fan, dont know why we bought him and dont know why we sold him without any replacement.

Offline Paul JH

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #92 on: November 2, 2009, 01:05:15 pm »
I would just like people to be honest in the debate and stick to the facts.

From someone who ignores the fact that Crouch didn't have an issue with Rafa when he left, and that Rafa wanted him to stay, and says things like 'he pissed Crouch off' as a reason for him going.

Yeah, you stick to those 'facts'.
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Offline freddwarf

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #93 on: November 2, 2009, 01:06:55 pm »
Of course you don't. A cursory read of your posts explains exactly why, too.

How can you ignore something so obviously important?

So its all just a matter of giving Rafa more money and if his net spend was say 25mill per season, then we would automatically be clear of the pack as opposed to having at best a top 6/8 squad.

Offline SP

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #94 on: November 2, 2009, 01:10:39 pm »
Just like we should not get rid of Rafa unless we have a better alternative in mind....and I can't think of anyone better who would be available.....we should not sell players unless we have better alternatives coming in.  Crouch would be a good alternative if Torres is not available or we want to "change the game".  I am not a Keane fan, dont know why we bought him and dont know why we sold him without any replacement.

We sold him because we had the chance to get our money back - and we got rid of a disruptive influence and a distraction. Rafa did not replace him in January because the right player was not available in the time frame available and he gambled that he had enough cover.

Come the summer and Rafa had some tough decisions. Long term he needs the marauding full backs to play the way that he wants to. But with signing Johnson and renewing all of the key player contracts he could not afford an experienced Torres back up striker. Rafa gambled that we had enough to muddle through to cover for Torres - strengthening the first team at the expense of gambling on squad depth.  Short term it failed (as far as results are going), but longer term I think Johnson will pay off handsomely.

Similarly Aquilani was a gamble. Signing an unfit player on medical advice is not a position that you would choose. But, potentially he is a better player than he could afford were he fit during the summer.

Rafa has gambled by adding 2 quality players at the expense of squad depth. Injuries have conspired to question the wisdom of that - but given the position he was in over the summer, the reasoning is sound. And once we start getting players back hopefully it will start paying back...
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 01:14:22 pm by Southern Pansy »

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #95 on: November 2, 2009, 01:12:45 pm »

Rafa has gambled by adding 2 quality players at the expense of squad depth.

Ironically, I wouldn't be surprised if the same people criticizing Benitez now for signing both of them, are the same people each summer who moan we should blow our entire transfer budget on 1-2 quality players, rather than a mixture of quality first-teamers and solid squad players.

Offline SP

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #96 on: November 2, 2009, 01:13:18 pm »
So its all just a matter of giving Rafa more money and if his net spend was say 25mill per season, then we would automatically be clear of the pack as opposed to having at best a top 6/8 squad.

With more money, Rafa would not have made the compromises that he has. We would have better reserve Centre Backs and a more experienced back up striker. Rafa has knowingly filled those positions cheaply, as he has had to prioritise spending elsewhere. There are no guarantees, but the squad would have been strengthened without having to introduce weaknesses elsewhere to fund it...

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #97 on: November 2, 2009, 01:19:02 pm »
I don't go along with this "net spend" stuff.

Lets say for example Rafa sold Bellamy for 8 mill and bought Dossena for 8 mill..net spend nil.

You can't excuse bad signings by saying look he only spent 16mill net spend per season or whatever.

I sold me car for 10k and bought another for 10.5k and it turned out to be a shed...still it only cost me £500...well thats OK then

Net spend has nothing to do with a player being good, bad or indifferent.
A free transfer can be an extremely good asset.

The point of the net spend is that Benitez has had to try and work within a smaller budget than the competition he is expected to overhaul.
If Liverpool F.C- The Business tells him he can only spend what he brings in he has to sell......it's quite simple.

If you need an example of how this works just imagine if Alonso had stayed.
Who would we have bought without the money that was generated from his sale?

Kyrgiakos is the answer!
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Offline freddwarf

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #98 on: November 2, 2009, 01:22:28 pm »
"Muddle through"...gambling on the fitness of key players...buying Aquilani when injured.

Well...

One of my main gripes is Rafa's over analysis. Tactics,yes fine but you can't overload players with instructions.Pennant gave an insight to it when he said Rafa would be giving him instruction thruout the game.Ok Pennant was a loser going in but I recall Rafa giving Fowler at least 2 minutes instruction when he was bring him on as sub and you could see Robbie looking at him as if to say......" lOOK PAL i HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE YER KNOW "

Offline Kerant

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #99 on: November 2, 2009, 01:24:53 pm »
Great post, nice one.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #100 on: November 2, 2009, 01:25:11 pm »
Net spend has nothing to do with a player being good, bad or indifferent.
A free transfer can be an extremely good asset.

The point of the net spend is that Benitez has had to try and work within a smaller budget than the competition he is expected to overhaul.
If Liverpool F.C- The Business tells him he can only spend what he brings in he has to sell......it's quite simple.

If you need an example of how this works just imagine if Alonso had stayed.
Who would we have bought without the money that was generated from his sale?

Kyrgiakos is the answer!

You can't excuse a weak squad on net spending...end of.

Offline buchigo!

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #101 on: November 2, 2009, 01:30:26 pm »
With more money, Rafa would not have made the compromises that he has. We would have better reserve Centre Backs and a more experienced back up striker. Rafa has knowingly filled those positions cheaply, as he has had to prioritise spending elsewhere. There are no guarantees, but the squad would have been strengthened without having to introduce weaknesses elsewhere to fund it...
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Offline Squinks

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #102 on: November 2, 2009, 01:31:24 pm »
Great post. I still find it incredibly hard to stomach that so-called "fans" want rid of Rafa.

Offline buchigo!

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #103 on: November 2, 2009, 01:31:28 pm »
"Muddle through"...gambling on the fitness of key players...buying Aquilani when injured.

Well...

One of my main gripes is Rafa's over analysis. Tactics,yes fine but you can't overload players with instructions.Pennant gave an insight to it when he said Rafa would be giving him instruction thruout the game.Ok Pennant was a loser going in but I recall Rafa giving Fowler at least 2 minutes instruction when he was bring him on as sub and you could see Robbie looking at him as if to say......" lOOK PAL i HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE YER KNOW "

so what have you done instead?
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Offline LFCfan4Life

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #104 on: November 2, 2009, 01:40:58 pm »
I don't go along with this "net spend" stuff.

Lets say for example Rafa sold Bellamy for 8 mill and bought Dossena for 8 mill..net spend nil.

You can't excuse bad signings by saying look he only spent 16mill net spend per season or whatever.

I sold me car for 10k and bought another for 10.5k and it turned out to be a shed...still it only cost me £500...well thats OK then

net stuff has nothing to do with excusing a bad signing its got everything to do with how much you spent on transfers though.

the club bought in £39m in transfer funds but spent £38m that means the club gave him £0 over that to actually make the squad STRONGER

we swapped a RB for a RB(a deal done mainly becuase pompey owed us alot of cash otherwise we probably wouldn't have bought him either), a CM for a CM and a CB who left on a free for a 1.5m CB when rafa wanted turner or Upson. keep hearing idiots on the radio tell us that LFC could have done with another attacker as well but how the fuck was rafa supposed to sign him

look at your own example would you tell someone you spent £20.5k or £10.k? you would say £10.5k but when people say Rafa SPENT £200+m its like saying your car cost you £20.5k

btw no we wont get 7m for dossena but we will get £3-4m so not £7m lost
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 01:48:23 pm by LFCfan4Life »
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Offline JoySki

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #105 on: November 2, 2009, 01:45:03 pm »
could anyone do a simular list for chelsea, arsenal and united?

Offline Dick Emery

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #106 on: November 2, 2009, 01:49:21 pm »
Why can't you excuse a poor squad on net spend? If you start with a rubbish squad, net spend is critical. To use the car analogy, our competitors are drving Ferraris. When Rafa came along we were in a Y-reg Mondeo Diesel Estate. He was told that he needed to sell the Mondeo to generate more money as the extra we've got saved up doesn't get us very far. Is it any surprise really that we aren't at their level yet?

Offline Varmenni

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #107 on: November 2, 2009, 01:50:24 pm »

If I remember correctly then you got paid for Mikel 1mil more than you had paid Lyn for him.  Would be interresting if you went a bit further back in time, to the times of your Taibis, Barthez, Howards and Carrolls and Verons.  And I think you forgot both Ben Foster (1mil).

Would also be nice to get the amount SAF paid for those players he bought before 2004/2005 and has since sold.

« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 01:52:01 pm by Varmenni »

Offline TommySmithsLiver

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #108 on: November 2, 2009, 01:55:14 pm »
could anyone do a simular list for chelsea, arsenal and united?

Chelsea have spend 24.5 million a season since 2004, United have only spent 4.6 million a seaon and Arsenal have actually made 4.3 million a season all net.

United's figure is skewed by the 80 million they got for step over boy

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #109 on: November 2, 2009, 01:55:20 pm »
You can't excuse a weak squad on net spending...end of.

Well done mate.
Ignore the salient points in favour of making another even more ridiculous comment.

Just read what you have written above again............if you can't see the irony in your statement then I'm afraid there's no hope for you.
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Offline Niru Red4ever

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #110 on: November 2, 2009, 01:57:04 pm »
Also SAF had players like RVN who brought in  money + the squad was already great. He didn't have to start from scratch.
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Offline SadRed

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #111 on: November 2, 2009, 01:57:45 pm »
I don't go along with this "net spend" stuff.

Lets say for example Rafa sold Bellamy for 8 mill and bought Dossena for 8 mill..net spend nil.

You can't excuse bad signings by saying look he only spent 16mill net spend per season or whatever.

I sold me car for 10k and bought another for 10.5k and it turned out to be a shed...still it only cost me £500...well thats OK then

I cannot believe how daft people can be. Really. Limit of daftness.

Offline TommySmithsLiver

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #112 on: November 2, 2009, 01:58:23 pm »
Also SAF had players like RVN who brought in  money + the squad was already great. He didn't have to start from scratch.

But how many of the players sold by Rafa on that list are listed as "Houllier buys"?

Offline Yellow Tarmac

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #113 on: November 2, 2009, 02:01:06 pm »
BHB - you conveniently left Igor out of the list you cheeky cunning little bastard. Wheres igor!?!

I will never forgive the fat waiter for letting him go. He won us the champs league you ungrateful stats geek.

Igor will always be bigger than the club. :D

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #114 on: November 2, 2009, 02:01:47 pm »
You can't excuse a weak squad on net spending...end of.

 :lmao
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Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #115 on: November 2, 2009, 02:05:57 pm »
"Muddle through"...gambling on the fitness of key players...buying Aquilani when injured.

Well...

One of my main gripes is Rafa's over analysis. Tactics,yes fine but you can't overload players with instructions.Pennant gave an insight to it when he said Rafa would be giving him instruction thruout the game.Ok Pennant was a loser going in but I recall Rafa giving Fowler at least 2 minutes instruction when he was bring him on as sub and you could see Robbie looking at him as if to say......" lOOK PAL i HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE YER KNOW "

You don't half talk some shite.
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Offline eljay

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #116 on: November 2, 2009, 02:06:10 pm »
There are some names in there that have gone, either because they didnt "settle" or Rafa didn't like, call it what you will, that i'd much prefer to still see in a Liverpool shirt ahead of Voronin/Babel/Ngog. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn.
You're not speaking out of turn - we're all entitled to an opinion and nobody is suggesting that Rafa is perefect. But hopefully you're not dismissing the hopefully blindingly obvious point that Rafa is performing bloody miracles with what he's been given when compared with what the competition have to play with. I repeat - he's not perfect but in my opinion he's closer to it than anyone else in this league.

Offline Twiggthemanc

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #117 on: November 2, 2009, 02:08:22 pm »
If I remember correctly then you got paid for Mikel 1mil more than you had paid Lyn for him.  Would be interresting if you went a bit further back in time, to the times of your Taibis, Barthez, Howards and Carrolls and Verons.  And I think you forgot both Ben Foster (1mil).

Would also be nice to get the amount SAF paid for those players he bought before 2004/2005 and has since sold.



Nah, we were meant to pay Lyn 4 million, ended up paying nothing, and recieved 12 million. I might be wrong about the paying nothing, but I don't think we paid 4 million.

Ben Foster I did indeed miss. I thought he was signed in the year before Benitez got here.

I will make a post later about his signings before Benitez. Obviously the big misstep was Veron, but we still got about 15 million back for him, and he played well in the Champions League. Other qualiting signings like Ferdinand, Rooney etc won us a lot. Obviously Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, two Nevilles, Butt were very cheap and won us a lot though. Something like that is as much down to luck as it is coaching.

Offline freddwarf

  • Pub bore. See? See? I was right! Gerrard back in C/Mid! Told you all months ago! See? Listen to me! I'm always right! Chose accessorising over a European Final. Gave his wife the trousers.
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #118 on: November 2, 2009, 02:09:37 pm »
I cannot believe how daft people can be. Really. Limit of daftness.

Calling posters names etc shows you up.

Bladder all day long..the squad is weak and there are serious problems in almost every area of the squad.

None of the arguments put foreward excuses the weakness of the squad.


Offline freddwarf

  • Pub bore. See? See? I was right! Gerrard back in C/Mid! Told you all months ago! See? Listen to me! I'm always right! Chose accessorising over a European Final. Gave his wife the trousers.
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #119 on: November 2, 2009, 02:10:33 pm »
You don't half talk some shite.

Another one...