Author Topic: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.  (Read 32150 times)

Offline Hinesy

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Sang The Who: We won't get fooled again.
Or will we.

The manager is gone, long live the manager.

Brendan Rodgers, by luck or design or a mixture of both, made us dream and made us shudder. He wasn't the messiah nor was he a very naughty boy. I think he presided over a massive era of transition, and change. The beauty of Suarez, the parting of Carra, Gerrard, Pepe Reina even.
He arrived very much his own boss. Almost arrogantly telling FSG this is how it was to be. But he was to told to fit, expected to fit, into FSG's weird and wonderful world of soccer, committees of that, directors of this, transfers by ballot, moneyball was all. Personally I think he did his best. And when it was best, it was beautiful. Waltzing past Utd at Trafford, we go again at City. But when it wasn't, it was bereft. Of wit, of plan B, of the CIA. Central Intelligence at Anfield. The loss of Gerrard was most keenly felt psychologically: no-one was prepared or used to, being a midfield lieutenant, never mind general. The very notion of grabbing a game by its teeth and forcing a result was long lost with Stevie. And we had a team of young attacking individuals.

the new manager must link the front and back, the midfield must dominate and strut, and there must be a continuous link from Sakho to Sturridge, from Mignolet to Milner.

We are not yet a team, we are a set of potentials. Brendan made us dream again, but he fell for the dream instead of being the weaver.
Plaudits have to go to anyone who can manage the arrival and leaving of Luis, the demise of Gerrard, the defence without Carragher, the expectation of "Value for money" from FSG.

The Liverpool Way is much discussed. At times Brendan was too 'himself' to allow sentimentality to creep in, and didn't fully become adopted by the fans. But we loved the panache and attack of that season.

However, most telling was that it wasn't the Stevie slip that lost us the league, it was Hull in midwinter. There was no plan B from Brendan. There was no solutions beyond moving Sterling about a bit when Daniel was ill.

He wasn't the worst Liverpool manager, he wasn't the best. He was a sign of the times we live in. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Good luck Brendan. You made us dream, you made us cry. You almost reminded us above was only Lennon's not Murdoch's sky.
« Last Edit: October 5, 2015, 09:30:29 am by Hinesy »
Yep.

Offline Jake

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The Saddest Thing Is, I'm Not Sad. And That Makes Me Sad.
« Reply #1 on: October 4, 2015, 09:11:51 pm »
It was 25 March 2000, Titi Camera scores against Newcastle in a 2-1 win to the Red Men. Young Le Jake is sat in the upper anny with his Uncle, and a passion is born. His Uncle has saved his soul. An 8 year old Le Jake has a Man Utd calculator because his dad, who knows nothing of football, heard they won some trophies. His Uncle, the brother of his father, knows different, and saves him.

9 year old Le Jake is now a Red, a proper Red too. first Liverpool kit is a retro 90s second hand goalkeeper kit bought from a car boot sale. He gets bought a copy of Championship Manager 00/01 and (because he doesn't have the internet) spends all his time on that, being a bedroom Gerard Houillier. When he's playing football, he's Fowler, always.

Quote from: Jake playing football at school
No, I'm Fowler! You can be Scholes or Cole

Fast forward, aged 13 and on holiday in some Spanishy island, best friends at school are the Liverpool fans, of course, and the news that, after the sacking of Gerard Houllier (who is, incidentally, the spit of my grandfather) and the hiring of a Spanish guy I'd not heard of (because I don't really watch football outside of Liverpool, I just can't garner any sort of enthusiasm) - Michael Owen decides to fuck off to Spain.

Fuck Spain, I'm fuming. I'm in Spain, we've replaced my grandad with some Spanish man, and now our striker is off to Spain too.

But of course how wrong I was. Me and my mate still watch every game together and it's a bobby dazzler of a season, Rafa Benitez is a magician in Europe, and every Tuesday night game at mine, Wednesday night game at his, tired for school the next day but it's bloody worth it. The season, and only day of the school calendar I remember is May 25th, 2005. 3-0 down at half time, sat with my mates in the living room, a manc friend calling on the house phone to give it the big "I am". Mum telling me it will be OK, if the other team can score 3 in a half, Liverpool can too. Me telling my mum she doesn't know what she's talking about. Fast forward 90 minutes and we're all crying and hugging and jumping and I get bollocked the next day for wearing my Liverpool scarf to school.

Fast forward to 2007 and I'm sat in Paphos, at the Liverpool supporters bar. Christened "Young Robbie" by the patrons who think I look like God himself, and our new striker, Fernando Torres, skins the fuck out of Tal Ben Haim, I go crazy in the bar, jump up and knock over a table of drinks. Luckily they belong to a table of Chelsea fans, and the rest of the bar have got my back.

3 June 2010, I'm sat on a train from Darlington to Middlesbrough, or maybe from Middlesbrough to Darlington, feeling numb. They've only gone and fucking sacked him. Rafael Benitez, my hero, and he's gone. The fucking owners, who wouldn't sign any of the players Rafa wanted, who wouldn't give him the money he needed, and he's gone. Yeah ok so we had a bad season, but think of all the history. I feel sick.

9 January 2011 and I'm stood in Old Trafford, baying for Howard Webb's blood because he's just given a penalty for a fuck all challenge, a Berbatov dive, and potentially ruined the return of the man I had read so much about, but not been lucky enough to see in the flesh, King Kenny Dalglish. I'd sang his name and watches his goals, his grace and his dignity from videos past and now here he was, in the dugout, and I felt like I had been there in 79, 80, 82, 83, 84, 86, 88 and 90. But I wasn't even born.

16 May 2012 and I'm sat on the floor in my student accommodation, scanning for news of what the fucks just happened. We won a trophy this year, we were just unluckily eked out of the FA Cup, we hit the post and bar so many times, we tore Man Utd apart, yeah yeah it could have been a bit better but with a bit of luck on our side we'd have got that top four spot too. New owners, they came and gave the King some money to buy some players, and now they've shitcanned him? I'm fucking fuming.

4 October 2015. PM We've just played the Bitters and not won. Again. Yeah sure I celebrated Ings goal, but when Lukaku scored I didn't feel the bile, I didn't punch a wall or scream or shout like I used to. I just sighed. This it what it is now.
4 October 2015, Evening, the same Uncle who took me to watch Liverpool v Newcastle, who started it all off, text to say "Brendan has been sacked". Am I bothered? I don't even know.

The club has been passed around from businessman to businessman looking to make some money, it's seen mercenary after mercenary through the doors, looking to make some money, it's seen c*nt after c*nt through the turnstiles, looking to get a new instagram selfie profile picture. It's seen world class gentleman after world class gentleman given the boot because of a short term problem. And all I can do is sigh.

Is it still the Club I fell in love with aged 9 years and 22 days old? Is it broken, or am I?
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline Harinder

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All the best Brendan.
« Reply #2 on: October 4, 2015, 09:36:09 pm »
Brendan Rodgers aka Janet Jackson - what have you done for me lately?

Oooooh ooooooh ooooooh ooooooohhhhhhhhh yeah :)

As I waited when the whistle went at Goodison today, you didn’t wave. It’s ok.

It's a fine line between love and hate. Make people believe and you're loved. A mistake and you could be cast into a permanent abyss of hatred. I could never hate you as it seems so disrespectful. I can only hope that what you've learnt whilst here aids you for your future.

So we will have a new manager. No doubt the rumour mills will be going at ten to the dozen on who that will be but in some ways there is something deep down that will never change... the way any manager nowadays can be treated when their back is to the wall. Vultures circle with smiles and microphones whilst engaging gears that will lead to a knife somewhere in that very back. The tweets that once spoke of love will seep away and along will come the hashtags and planes!

Once we get past the position of a manager, there is something more fundamental - where are we going? We hear so much waxing lyrical of wanting to compete and win and thrown in with the Battle of Hastings it becomes history repeating itself. More words than a dictionary come out of the club in a lovely PR clamour and even more with the LFC Xtra which, love it or loathe it, meets the McNasty's drive thru standards of something that represents a football club website.

We make money. We make sponsorship deals. We market the atmosphere. We sell a dream. Did we somehow sell out on the reality? Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies... not nearly win them. The quality in the framework that I actually don't know about but the world wants to presume they do because "they know" then has to be questioned. From within the club and those that represent us on the pitch. You want to believe they are all working hard for making the prescribed raison d'etre for making our existence a reality but somewhere something is missing. No magic bullet to the answer either as for all the bashing that goes on, FSG is putting money in. It is looking to make us sustainable rather than a bi-yearly injection.

That leads us into what do we want. In the very aspect of discussing what we want I can't help but feel that it's a bit selfish at some level. We want this. We want that. We want, we want, we want, we want and we want it NOW! The twice a year shitfest of transfer windows shows the ever elusive yet overtly clever ITK spew out the "we spent £20m on x and look at what y cost... look at what we could have had". A cracking insight deep from the intellect of Kentucky Fried Chicken's finest ever servant will have thousands if not millions salivating on the next salacious piece of tittle tattle because we all love the players we have.

The tightrope our emotions walk, well ok mine, are shot. By the thinnest of margins we hold a position of not being like the vitriolic fans that plague the pits of London (or trains at Stoke!). We have no post match YouTube fest of arguments that are a click bait machine but for how much longer? You could imagine a universe where a fella, he really epitomises the unsociable element of social media, is standing outside the Kop banging on about why someone should be sacked, owners removed or happy a player has a long term injury so someone can upload it to BastionKop.tv. Profile of site owner will be someone who's gone the game for 40 years and never seen anything like this as he's local and proud! But, of course, he isn't.... Kevin aka Kevstar was really born and bred in Tilehurst near Reading in 1996. With social skills honed in his first Myspace page by the age of 11 he learnt his art before that Facebook page flopped and Twitter gave him political asylum.

The sheer infestation of fuckwittery on social media grinds my gears. The degrees of success of opinion are nailed on by the retweets from those of the same era as Kevstar and even those you'd suspect should know better. The third of the pitch they see via TV/PC/Laptop/Tablet gives them supreme insight to know exactly how a player moved in a match. I no longer laugh out loud when KopHero17 suddenly appears on a timeline with more stats than NASA for a match he/she never got to but that restricted viewing told him/her all they ever needed to know

Rodgers departing and his replacement, when all said and done, becomes the least of the problems. No matter who comes in next, some real questions will be left outstanding. The first match the next incumbent to take on the mantelpiece of being the manager of Liverpool Football Club loses, there will be a rush to be the one who beats Kevstar, IndyFailure, Kopzero to sticking a boot in... Welcome to Liverpool Football Club?

There will be a balance though. Luckily it exists BECAUSE of those that have experienced the highs and the lows and take them for what they are as part of our journey. For each catty response to words of wisdom there will be that saving grace who can tell it like it really is and should be. Unfortunately for the unsociables of the world, the numbers there will outweigh any clickbait or retweets and will be ready to continue to support ALL of our great club.

I think that will be referenced with a #ScrewYou to the unsociables!

Time is something we all preach but lose patience with faster than we think. In this day and age the here and now wants to rule the roost at the expense of the future. We've travelled down that path many times and each time we forget the lessons learnt and pine like lovestruck teenagers. Funnily enough, what isn't irrational is wanting to pine with a manager who pines with you and wants to ease that pain. One who wants to fight with you with every kick, push, goal and near miss and electrify the sheer emotion of what this club means to so many. I want someone who feels it's not just another club. A rung on a ladder onto somewhere else, so to speak. This needs to feel like it is their club too so that when we all say "it's ours" he knows he's part of that collective. I don't want someone who's made to feel like an outsider. We failed to embrace Brendan fully. The "we" in that sentence is inclusive of all fans. The division is what breaks us. Give me that manager that meets that criteria because we really need him. No other. No less than one who can unite the splinters so that we don't look like the floor at that place across the park.

FSG say “Ambition and winning are at the heart of what we want to bring to Liverpool and we believe this change gives us the best opportunity to deliver it”. Don’t forget we are ripping it up and starting again, again.

When King Kenny said “We have said all along, we are a stronger force if we stick together. If we stick together we’ll have a much better chance.”

Maybe we all need to believe what the King is saying too?
« Last Edit: October 4, 2015, 10:20:56 pm by Harinder »
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline Harinder

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Re: The Saddest Thing Is, I'm Not Sad. And That Makes Me Sad.
« Reply #3 on: October 4, 2015, 09:40:50 pm »
Nearly forgot to say - Le Jake. Liverpool somewhere is still what we fell in love with. As she ages and others fall for our lady we are hurt when they don't love her in a manner befitting the standards we apply to daily life.

Luckily our lady just won't go to bed with anyone  :wave
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All the best Brendan.
« Reply #4 on: October 4, 2015, 09:44:08 pm »
Beautiful mate
Yep.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All the best Brendan.
« Reply #5 on: October 4, 2015, 11:38:01 pm »
I tend not to get personal about our manager, at least on here. Bad form and all that. But this post is about former managers.

All of the Liverpool managers up to Evans were my heroes. I was too young, and we got about five minutes a week and they were just gods, and I include Souness in that, because he was our greatest ever player. They were all distant and perfect. By the time Evans got the job, the media had started the stream of what would become the torrent of content we have now. So when I heard the stories about Collymore, and the whole Spice Boys thing, the edifice was starting to crumble. A bit. Evans was still a nice man.

I liked Houllier. Much of what I read about him afterwards led me to believe he was a bit of an ego merchant, and a bit of a nutcase too, if truth be told, but at the time I liked him fine. I probably knew about him, on some level. I remember him standing being interviewed with Ferguson and Wenger as the top three managers in the league or some such nonsense, and I could tell straight off that he was by some distance the happiest to be there. But when he had his heart thing, I was concerned. He was also my wife's first Liverpool manager, and she had already started encouraging me to have feelings at that point so....

I loved Rafa.

I liked Hodgson while he was at Fulham. He was inoffensive and avuncular and bright enough, in a mild, crossword sort of way. By the time I saw him gurning with Keyes and Gray, making like my club challenging for the title was some kind of post modern, ironic joke, I couldn't stand the fucker.

Rodgers? I never bought him. That's probably an unfair way to put it. Maybe he believes the stuff himself. The sustained eye contact bothered me. The other stuff, the new teeth and the new woman and the new things, that didn't bother me. I'm older than him, I can see that stuff happening. Men can get weird as they enter middle age. But he always looked like he was on the verge of selling something, like the next thing he'd do would be to ask you for a deposit and maybe whisper conspiratorially that he could get you a special deal but you'd have to sign up right now. Seriously. Best. Decision. Ever.

I didn't like that he worked for Maureen, or that he seemed to regard him as some sort of influence. Because Maureen is a cunt. I didn't like that he always said things like "the group" and how we had "such a good group". I didn't like that cringeworthy envelope parlour trick. He was one of those people who really need you to buy them, as a whole package, and I didn't. He had a vision, and people who think they have a vision are easy prey for piss take. Most of all, however, I could not stand the way he touched people, all the time. Not for him the discreet handshake, or the easy shoulder bump while looking somewhere else. I would never like to meet him. He would have my face in his hands before I knew it.

Entirely football free post.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All the best Brendan.
« Reply #6 on: October 5, 2015, 09:20:09 am »
the bit about working for Maureen always sat uneasily with me for truly he is a graceless twat. Mourinho makes Ferguson look like Cary Grant.
Yep.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #7 on: October 5, 2015, 02:00:37 pm »
i always give all our managers the respect they deserve except one and i never  deemed  him to be a proper manager anyway.
« Last Edit: October 5, 2015, 08:47:19 pm by Mutton Geoff »
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #8 on: October 5, 2015, 11:29:10 pm »
Well he had his limitations.  Don't we all?  He was tactically poor in my view and a bit too Dunning and Kruger for my liking, but I want to highlight something I do respect him for....

He can coach.  And he can particularly improve attacking players who have a high skill set.

Make no mistake.  The performances of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling were hugely improved because of his work with them.  Some of the football they produced in his good season will be remembered for a long time.

Thanks for making us believe just for a brief moment.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #9 on: October 6, 2015, 12:00:42 am »
bump
Yep.

Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #10 on: October 6, 2015, 12:47:18 am »
Still can't work out if he's one of the best managers in the league or one of the worst. Either way he won't be given the chance to prove that here so best of luck to him at his new club.

First thing I'll say is that he came to the club at a bad time. FSG were learning the ropes and after signing a lot of money on players like Carroll,Adam and Downing to name a few they decided on taking a more technical approach to football likely inspired by the success of Spain and Barcelona. FSG's early game plan being "Kenny you take the ropes and sign who you want while we work out what the fuck we are doing here". When they finally realised and had their first oppurtunity to dethrone a King they did just that, ruthless some said. Necessary for our long term development and philosophy in their eyes though I'm sure.

Such a change in philosophy was always going to lead to transition to some extent, add to that the ages of Lucas, Gerrard, Agger, Carra etc and it was very much a full squad he'd have to recruit over a few seasons. What makes that even more difficult is that those players you have signed are going to be signed for their potential which may or may not be reached for a few years. Add to that you have to finish ahead of higher spending clubs who can afford to buy the finished article. Finally, add to that a club that demand success due to its great history. I won't get into board, comittee restrictions on transfers and club politics (which warrant their own thread) either.

Sounds like a poison chalice from the start really. The lure of taking on such a prestigious club and restore them to the top of their perch never too big a task to take on for a man who clearly is confident in his own abilities. He was never the big name who could silence the fans who still longed for Rafa but he was confident enough to make many think we could have another Shanks on our hands here.

Rodgers will be remembered (well at least until we win the fucking thing again) as the man who took us closer than we have in 25+ years. People nit pick and try pull out moments from that season that cost us the title but the reality is its a 38 game season for every mistake there was a moment of brilliance. Unfortunately our best efforts and they were the best we could of exoected for from that side were not enough and we were beaten by a brilliant City side.

What's often said when a manager departs, to define whether his tenure was successful we compare where we were when he joined to were we are when he departed. I would say there has been some improvement, not a lot though. Not enough for Liverpool football club.

There are concerns about his tactics and philosophy. A philosophy which changed after one season, the very philosophy he was hired specifically to play ahead of Roberto Martinez. Why did we change, was his "death by football" philosophy flawed?

The change worked well initially. Suarez and Sturridge banging in goals for fun, youth coming through and he even found a role for Gerrard to excel in and become arguably our most important player that season. It seemed there was holes in the side, fix them and we really would be unstobbable.

Losing Suarez that summer, Gerrards decline and what that season took out of him mentally and Sturridges injury meant 14/15 was more about steadying the ship than repeating what we managed the previous season. Some poor signings along with the defensive issues still apparent and proving costly meant we performed below expectations. The 6-1 defeat to Stoke on the final day the final kick to the teeth in a season that provided many, Europe also being a particular low.

This season has raised more concerns. A full squad of Rodgers players signed to play 4-3-3 or one of its variations and it gets exposed twice so we change formation. Again why is his 4 man defence not working, is it again a flaw in his philosophy?

A combination of disgruntled fans and the availability of certain managers will have pushed FSG into making a knee jerk decision. Only time will tell if it was the correct decision or not, I do know whoever takes charge will have to be on his game because this is one of the toughest jobs in management. For Rodgers though I wish him the best, his next job will define his career and its a big chance to prove any doubters wrong.

Best of luck Brendan and thank you for your efforts.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 12:57:11 am by ShayGuevara »
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Offline PanchDeBurca

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #11 on: October 6, 2015, 12:54:10 am »


I tend not to get personal about our manager, at least on here. Bad form and all that. But this post is about former managers.

All of the Liverpool managers up to Evans were my heroes. I was too young, and we got about five minutes a week and they were just gods, and I include Souness in that, because he was our greatest ever player. They were all distant and perfect. By the time Evans got the job, the media had started the stream of what would become the torrent of content we have now. So when I heard the stories about Collymore, and the whole Spice Boys thing, the edifice was starting to crumble. A bit. Evans was still a nice man.

I liked Houllier. Much of what I read about him afterwards led me to believe he was a bit of an ego merchant, and a bit of a nutcase too, if truth be told, but at the time I liked him fine. I probably knew about him, on some level. I remember him standing being interviewed with Ferguson and Wenger as the top three managers in the league or some such nonsense, and I could tell straight off that he was by some distance the happiest to be there. But when he had his heart thing, I was concerned. He was also my wife's first Liverpool manager, and she had already started encouraging me to have feelings at that point so....

I loved Rafa.

I liked Hodgson while he was at Fulham. He was inoffensive and avuncular and bright enough, in a mild, crossword sort of way. By the time I saw him gurning with Keyes and Gray, making like my club challenging for the title was some kind of post modern, ironic joke, I couldn't stand the fucker.

Rodgers? I never bought him. That's probably an unfair way to put it. Maybe he believes the stuff himself. The sustained eye contact bothered me. The other stuff, the new teeth and the new woman and the new things, that didn't bother me. I'm older than him, I can see that stuff happening. Men can get weird as they enter middle age. But he always looked like he was on the verge of selling something, like the next thing he'd do would be to ask you for a deposit and maybe whisper conspiratorially that he could get you a special deal but you'd have to sign up right now. Seriously. Best. Decision. Ever.

I didn't like that he worked for Maureen, or that he seemed to regard him as some sort of influence. Because Maureen is a cunt. I didn't like that he always said things like "the group" and how we had "such a good group". I didn't like that cringeworthy envelope parlour trick. He was one of those people who really need you to buy them, as a whole package, and I didn't. He had a vision, and people who think they have a vision are easy prey for piss take. Most of all, however, I could not stand the way he touched people, all the time. Not for him the discreet handshake, or the easy shoulder bump while looking somewhere else. I would never like to meet him. He would have my face in his hands before I knew it.

Entirely football free post.

Such a shame that you would hold the personality of his asshole former boss against him, that makes no sense to me.  You only have to read his statement to see that he's a different class to that prick

Disappointing to see such a good writer as yourself say this

Offline Desert Red Fox

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #12 on: October 6, 2015, 01:00:19 am »

However, most telling was that it wasn't the Stevie slip that lost us the league, it was Hull in midwinter. There was no plan B from Brendan. There was no solutions beyond moving Sterling about a bit when Daniel was ill.

I know my post won't be as long, detailed and emotional as some of the ones already posted, and probably my reply sells your opening post a bit short, but I wanted to say this:

amidst all the heartbreak from missing out on the title, like Stevie actually slipping and feeling like a cruel punchline to a big cosmic joke, one of the thoughts that hasn't left me since then is precisely that. We could have and should have won that match against Hull.

Had we won that, and also the one against West Bromwich (oh Kolo...), the slip would have been a farcical footnote in a glorious season. It would've been something we'd remember nervously but without malice, something like self-deprecating humor. Instead, it was the fucking punchline. It was fucking soul destroying.

Hull. West Bromwich.

Would've, could've, should've.

But we didn't.

Fucking hell.

Offline Reds Flag

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #13 on: October 6, 2015, 03:33:44 am »
A few of the opening posts seem to be treating BR's 3+ years at the club as having become some barely notable irrelevance the moment he left the building, which I think is very unfair. Brendan sadly did not bring us any trophies in his time here, which obviously I won't pretend is not a disappointment and means his name will not be prominent in the annals of LFC. But as someone not old enough to have seen us win the league - I have only really known 6 LFC managers, and 4 in my adult life - I am not about to dismiss and forget a manager who succeeded in bringing a great deal of positivity back to the club after the dark days of Hicks & Gillett (and Hodgson) and really did make us dream again when in all honesty I had begun to think that the possibility of league titles in the oil and Sky money era were moving forever beyond our reach.

I have been a Liverpool fan since my childhood in the city, a decision made in my heart from when I was so young that things I learned then seem to me now to be innate knowledge. Hicks & Gillett had done their very best over their time in ownership to sap that passion, from creating a toxic atmosphere, making it clear that the club was nothing but a money-making scheme for them, undermining Rafa, and finally appointing Hodgson to lead the darkest months of my lifetime as a Liverpool supporter. I think FSG deserve credit simply for not being H&G... I loved Kenny's return, a man whose contribution to the club was legendary to me. I would have kept him on for sure, and was extremely sorry to see him go. But then Brendan came in and brought with him a vision of a positive, exciting brand of football. He showed from the start he knew what it meant to be Liverpool manager - in complete contrast to Hodgson - and brought a great positivity to the club from top to bottom. I really thought we had a chance under BR to build for the long term, to build a dynasty a la Ferguson/Wenger to bring us success and stability. Our 2013-14 season was absolutely exhilarating and brought me the most joy I have felt watching us play outside one night in Istanbul, I won't forget that for a long time. Sadly it took Brendan too long to find a reliable solution to life after Suarez, and we'll never know if that dynasty was possible. But, at least for me, he leaves as his legacy a club which finally seems to be on track again after several rocky years, a club set fair for the future, along with many great memories and a renewed belief that if we get everyone working together anything is possible, despite the Chelseas and the Man Citys being on a totally different financial plane. I look forward to our new managerial appointment and will wholeheartedly support whoever we bring in, but Brendan's contributions and commitment over his time as manager of this great club deserve to be remembered, and he leaves a positivity and togetherness at the club as his legacy that whoever comes in to replace him will be grateful for and able to build upon. Thus, he remains part of the Liverpool story. Goodbye, Brendan, and thank you.

I just want to leave his comments after his dismissal here, as a fitting conclusion:

"It has been both an honour and a privilege to manage one of the game's great clubs. I have worked every day to represent the club to the best of my ability, to develop both individual players and a team that the club's magnificent fans can be proud of. There have been some very memorable moments during my time at Liverpool and I would like to thank all of the players for their hard work and commitment."

"Liverpool has a magnificent football heritage and I have nothing but respect and admiration for the history, tradition and values that make the city and the club so exceptional. As well as my players, I would like to thank everyone connected with the club; Fenway Sports Group, the Liverpool Directors, in particular Ian Ayre, my coaching staff, the staff throughout the club, the volunteers, the Academy staff and its young players and of course the amazing Liverpool fans for their unwavering support, passion and dedication which has made my time at the club so special."

What is for sure is that Brendan showed a whole lot more grace, class, understanding of and respect for this great club and its traditions - in victory, defeat and in his final downfall - than a lot of fans and posters here and elsewhere. It is to his lasting credit and to the shame of a lot of people who ought to know better.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 03:45:21 am by Reds Flag »

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #14 on: October 6, 2015, 04:46:01 am »
Rodgers brought us new language and a way of thinking about the game that was needed.  However, it was not a panacea nor could it cover up glaring deficiencies in how we defended set plays (early on), or how we defended at times.  And then, when injuries, poor form, and (in his view) limited offensive weapons failed to get results, our attacking manager has to fight for his life --- apparently within the TC, the bootroom and press room. 

I daresay this is the holy trinity of distraction, as the practice field is where teams improve.  Throw in a dash of player loss and form loss, and the Man United game last year was when this derailment was most visible.  Sure, some will point to a feckless Champions League performance, but we were on a roll after taking it to Man City at home (beautiful little magician).   Something happened there.  Steve G gets a red card, Liverpool goes to pieces and it foreshadows the next 6months.   

Lamenting is useless now, but I do want to say that Rodgers lived on the edge (of a cliff and of greatness).  Almost got there.

I will quit yammering now before some says this:

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It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

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Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #15 on: October 6, 2015, 07:08:40 am »
Rodgers is a promising coach and has potential to be a good manager. However when he took on the job, he was not ready yet to manage such a big club. His coaching experience was not well rounded nor complete enough. Predictably he tried to learn on the job and for a while during the second season, he did very well. However equally predictably he was unable to keep it together. The whole 3 years was not his fault - when you are offered such a chance, you have to take it. It was FSG's fault for offering it to him in the first place.

Offline mercury

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #16 on: October 6, 2015, 07:56:12 am »
Loving a team never gives one an easy life.  Loving Liverpool Football Club is even more difficult -- the glory is so sweet but more are the pains, especially because of our reverence to our manager, whom in this days and age, has become even more transient in nature.

Our managers must be able to make us dream but it was never only about that.  They were the symbol of our identity.  They were our alpha male.  However they also had to prove themselves on these every count before they earned the right to be defiant, on which this fanbase set itself apart. And of course, they had to understand the meaning of football to us – and thus love us.

I admit I have never quite warmed up to Rodgers.  He was and still is a good few years away from reaching the level, if ever, we looked for in a manager.  I admit my heart had called for Rafa when he was appointed.  I very much admit it’s quite unfair to him.

My best wishes to Brenden.  He does have some very good qualities for a manager and who could forget the title run. I hope he would take stock of his years here, note his own weakness and mistakes; and go on to fulfill his potential.    Instead of thinking he was not given the tools and hence all those loses were not his fault, perhaps he should understand a powerful manager is always a winning manager.  In NBA the front office makes all the signing decisions -- but who is the king at San Antonio?  So do your stuff as a manager – make use and make better of what you have, buy your time, make the wins, build your credentials to be able to call the shots. 

Will our next manager solve our woes and ache?  If Klopp is the one, a streak of madness – a mad conviction in himself and passion in football – certainly helps in  taking on one of the most difficult football jobs in the world.  Let's be hopeful and pray that the cycle would become one of sweet glory rather than pain.

Offline Les Willis

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #17 on: October 6, 2015, 08:22:09 am »
I never really warmed to Brendan either. He seemed to be a bit of a caricature of himself from the minute Being Liverpool was aired and he never really shook off the Brentan tag. With the management speak and Human resources type soundbites you often felt that he was (as Barney Ronay put it) "a slightly desperate regional sales manager delivering a marketing pitch for a contract he already knows is lost".

Personality aside, I didn't think that he was a bad coach. He seemed to be good with younger players and wasn't afraid to play them where other managers might not have done. He certainly brought the best out of Sterling for a while in the 13/14 season. His brand of football, the passing game was always pleasing to watch and at times during Suarez's last season we were unbeatable. Brendan has to take at least some credit there for bring the best out of Suarez and getting that one last push out of Gerrard.

Unfortunately, since then it has fallen apart a bit. A lot of Rodger's problems seemed to centre around conflict with the transfer committee. He seemed to only want to play the players that were his picks, which mean't that players like Markovic became isolated. Also, if you have a player of Balotelli's undoubted quality - why not adapt your system to suit his game rather than stick rigidly to your formations and philosophies. This for me is where he fell down the most - a lack of pragmatism in his outlook.

I think he'll go on to do well elsewhere if he can become a bit more adaptable.

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #18 on: October 6, 2015, 08:29:58 am »
He was given a fair crack of the whip. I actually quite like the man. What I do take issue with is the fact that he seemed to be here to learn how to manage one of the best football clubs in the world. It always seemed to be the case that he would  learn from his mistakes. This isn't the place to learn from your mistakes there's too much at ERM.. stake 😀
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #19 on: October 6, 2015, 08:32:43 am »


Such a change in philosophy was always going to lead to transition to some extent, add to that the ages of Lucas, Gerrard, Agger, Carra etc and it was very much a full squad he'd have to recruit over a few seasons.

Can you just clarify this point please.  Lucas was 25 when Rodgers joined,  he's only 28 now,  so I don't get why he's mentioned here? Thanks

As for Rodgers,  I was never a fan,  couldn't abhore his man management style,  and think he believed his own hype.  Glad he's gone,  but unsure where this could lead us!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline hollger

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #20 on: October 6, 2015, 09:26:09 am »
He can coach.  And he can particularly improve attacking players who have a high skill set.

I think this is a very important factor with Rodgers - he's clearly an excellent coach. The transition from that to excellent manager, however, is not an easy one. We've seen the same with players - who thought big Sami was a perfect fit for management? I certainly did - and time may yet prove he is, once the groundwork's been properly laid. It's that "transition" phase they need to get right, a word we've been hearing so much of lately.

Ultimately, I think we came a wee bit too early for Brendan Rodgers. He was doing good things with Swansea and it was understandable FSG gave him the opportunity. But there's such a big step between the two clubs - albeit perhaps not in league position in recent years - but the pressure and expectation that comes with being manager of Liverpool Football Club is an order of magnitude way above that of managing Swansea City (meant with absolutely no disrespect whatsoever to them - there are a few things Swansea do very well where we could learn a thing or two!).

Initially he coped with it well, spoking eloquently of our history, fanbase and how he was so very lucky to be afforded the chance to work here. An encouraging start that improved as the games came and went. We won, we drew, we lost - but you could see the implementation of a playing style. When Skrtel made that error against Man City early in his tenure, he didn't criticise, he explained that we'd make mistakes as players adapted to his passing style and improved their game. We could see the idea. His decision to almost abandon that style in favour of getting the best from our lethal attack brought us so close, closer than anyone in over 2 decades, to the championship. There's the snides that say it was Suarez alone, but it wasn't. There was collective a belief instilled by the coaching - a belief strengthened by the players seeing it work, week on week. It showed Rodgers could be flexible, that he could allow himself to put his system on the back burner for a while and take advantage of the players we had that very few others did. We were so, so close...

2014/15 was a tough season. We failed miserably to adequately replace Suarez, to plan for the inevitable injury to Sturridge and we had an ageing Gerrard in a midfield that all too often was over-run. Brendan must obviously share his portion of the blame for last year, because yet again we'd spent big money yet missed out on key players in key areas. We suffered badly and of course, ended up losing one of our bright young talents again in the summer (although for an admittedly massive fee). The majority of us didn't think it was a problem losing Sterling because, you know, Jordon Ibe, plus replacing Sterling's primary asset - his pace - shouldn't really have been too difficult. However...

We began 2015/16 "in transition" for the third year in a row. I'm not sure how much we could have changed the fact we lost players year on year - Suarez was always going, especially after the World Cup bite, Gerrard had to go, for he wanted guaranteed game time that you just cannot promise someone of his age and Sterling - can you refuse such money for a player who clearly wanted out? I don't really think so. So we found ourselves with a lot of money for the second season in a row, and that obviously presents a football club with the opportunity to improve on it's personnel or bring in others. This naturally creates that transition, so I can sympathise with Rodgers in that respect. However you can reduce the impact by buying the right players and as a club we seem spectacularly bad at doing that. It's the one major thing that needs to change under the new man, though the early signs are that the transfer committee will stay intact. For what it's worth, I think this summer's buys were good overall and will see us in a good position in future years. Last summer's, however, were very poor overall although to be fair some may yet come good, e.g. Markovic.

I feel a sadness at losing Brendan Rodgers. Whilst I did think (although not want, I will add) he'd be gone at the end of last season - Stoke was a bitter pill to swallow - having backed him with money in the summer I thought he'd have at least until Christmas/January to get us going. In truth we're not far off the pace now, but you have to take the state of the league into account in that. We've been relatively poor, lacking confidence and haven't gone with the formation the manager believes in - possibly due to the pressures of the fans and the media to get quick results. The square pegs in round holes will forever be an annoyance for me, no matter the manager. He's a good man and clearly a talented coach, but the harsh reality is that football comes down to results. Unfortunately the 'modern game' will not wait for someone to get it right, because that may result in the loss of revenues whether that be from finishing in a lower league position, losing sponsorships etc and a team of Liverpool's stature cannot afford to drop too low in those standings - we've been playing catch-up for almost 30 years now.

I can understand why he's been let go. I don't agree with it, but when I think on it I can at least understand it. I feel sad for the man and disappointed at our hierarchy for not doing this sooner if certain stories are to be believed, but I can understand it. All I can hope for now is that we get the right man in - if that's Jurgen Klopp then so be it, at least it's a name that brings with it charisma and a winning mentality. Whether he has more success than Rodgers remains to be seen as nothing is a given in this world - but whatever happens, I hope we can get behind the team again because seasons like 2013/14 are surely why we all love this crazy game.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #21 on: October 6, 2015, 09:34:51 am »
I was never a fan,  couldn't abhore his man management style,  and think he believed his own hype.  Glad he's gone,  but unsure where this could lead us!

Well, I was, and I believed the hype, I really did. I thought there was a man with a clear vision of football, a man who was driven by the desire to bring a different football to England, someone who really believed in the traditional pass and move and was trying to sign the right players for builing this football step by step.

Then I thought he couldn't get his way for playing this sort of football because of a legend like Steven Gerrard who, rightly, forced Rodgers to build a team around him while considering the age and style of play Gerrard wanted to play. I thought that he, Rodgers, to be a young manager who had to be careful enough to realise his vision step by step as he didn't have the reputation and big name for forcing his style into the club like Rafa did.

But anyway, I was wrong. At the end I realised that he didn't care about any style of play. Quality players came and went for whatever reason while others were given the time and patience to find their way into the team and there was no visible plan or system behind this. It all had a trial and error feel to it, Rodgers squad decisions, and way too many of them, way too unpredictable and strange so that, at some time, from a fan point of view, it became harder and harder to figure what he was trying to achieve football wise. Pass and Move or anything like that with James Milner in the center? Na..

I could list a lot, many of those strange decisions but I am kind of tired of that.. the final straw though for me the way he tried to implement something "new" during preseason, and giving up on this only a a couple of games later because he wasn't able to make it work. Instead, without any notion, he went back to the one and only system which kind of worked, three at the back, in order to have the players press and create some sort of tension towards our opponents. In hindsight though,  that was all he was capable of.

The funny stories of life would have been given another chapter if this limited man, in a football sense, would have been handed the title for having probably the best attacking line around ever besides the current Barca attack... Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge. But it wasn't to be and I will remember Rodgers as a nice person overall but even better actor. Football has become a circus in recent years, I thought he did fit in perfectly for quite a while.

What's next? I still hope for pass and move and some sort of a revolution going on. Something like Red Star Belgrade in the 90ies, or Milan a little bit later. I don't give a fuck if the new manager fails but I would hope and wish that he gives it an honest try. Football wise. He would have my honest support then.

And while this game for sure has beome a business and some sort of a circus, it's still about football in the first place. I love football. For that, I first and foremost want a manager who is all about that.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 12:03:55 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Raul!

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #22 on: October 6, 2015, 09:48:18 am »
For me, in total, I just don't think he was experienced enough.

Some of the character traits and idiosyncrasies might have been to make up for that but while he was a good coach and really know how to improve and bring out the best from his attacking players, he was somewhat light on ideas when he had to organise the team front to back to achieve a result. Our wonderful 2013-14 season played to his strengths and illustrated his weaknesses - great attacking prowess, poor at the back and a lack of Plan Bs.

I think he will get better with experience and perhaps even be successful in terms of trophies and titles at some point (time will tell), but I don't think it was going to happen with us.

And last season and this, I was more inclined to hide my head in the sand when there was a poor result rather than look for positives and argue with other fans. Subconsciously because I didn't see a way out with Rodgers, I think.

Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #23 on: October 6, 2015, 10:20:11 am »
Can you just clarify this point please.  Lucas was 25 when Rodgers joined,  he's only 28 now,  so I don't get why he's mentioned here? Thanks

As for Rodgers,  I was never a fan,  couldn't abhore his man management style,  and think he believed his own hype.  Glad he's gone,  but unsure where this could lead us!

Sorry Lucas it was more the injury problems. I think it's fair to say Rodgers for most of his tenure didn't get the same Lucas that Rafa had.

Rodgers did have a full squad to build there were very few players under 26/27 suited to his style in that squad he took over. The next manager will have it a lot easier in that regard, all this squad needs is fine tuning and has age on its side. The only possible issue would be a change in playing style that's not suited to our squad but that would be an error on part of the club.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #24 on: October 6, 2015, 10:43:26 am »
Sorry Lucas it was more the injury problems. I think it's fair to say Rodgers for most of his tenure didn't get the same Lucas that Rafa had.

Rodgers did have a full squad to build there were very few players under 26/27 suited to his style in that squad he took over. The next manager will have it a lot easier in that regard, all this squad needs is fine tuning and has age on its side. The only possible issue would be a change in playing style that's not suited to our squad but that would be an error on part of the club.

I don't think he had enough experience and belief in any particular style that he could call it his own. There are some coaches like Benitez and Houllier (and Dalglish even) who start from studying the style of their preferred model, then build on it with their own experience until they're familiar with the strengths and weaknesses and thus take in the unpredictability of football when theory is applied. When they deviate from the norm it's always with the norm in mind, and they can build a squad with roles and duties clearly defined. I don't think Rodgers knew enough about the ups and downs of football to be able to take the rough as well as the smooth. When something went wrong, I don't think he knew enough about any particular model to be able to assess whether the model was fundamentally wrong and needed to be changed, or whether it was one of those things that happen in football.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #25 on: October 6, 2015, 11:01:17 am »
I don't think he had enough experience and belief in any particular style that he could call it his own. There are some coaches like Benitez and Houllier (and Dalglish even) who start from studying the style of their preferred model, then build on it with their own experience until they're familiar with the strengths and weaknesses and thus take in the unpredictability of football when theory is applied. When they deviate from the norm it's always with the norm in mind, and they can build a squad with roles and duties clearly defined. I don't think Rodgers knew enough about the ups and downs of football to be able to take the rough as well as the smooth. When something went wrong, I don't think he knew enough about any particular model to be able to assess whether the model was fundamentally wrong and needed to be changed, or whether it was one of those things that happen in football.

Yeah agreed. Felt like he was learning and this is too big a job to be learning in.

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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #26 on: October 6, 2015, 11:07:44 am »
I don't think he had enough experience and belief in any particular style that he could call it his own. There are some coaches like Benitez and Houllier (and Dalglish even) who start from studying the style of their preferred model, then build on it with their own experience until they're familiar with the strengths and weaknesses and thus take in the unpredictability of football when theory is applied. When they deviate from the norm it's always with the norm in mind, and they can build a squad with roles and duties clearly defined. I don't think Rodgers knew enough about the ups and downs of football to be able to take the rough as well as the smooth. When something went wrong, I don't think he knew enough about any particular model to be able to assess whether the model was fundamentally wrong and needed to be changed, or whether it was one of those things that happen in football.
That's probably very true, but people should expect that with a young manager. Most managers his age go through this period of doubt and anxiety at a smaller club and the best ones come out the other side with a better understanding. Really, this period of his career should still be at Swansea, but we took a chance on his potential, like we have with many young players.

It's unrealistic to expect Rodgers learning to be linear on an upward trajectory. Rather than implementing his preferred style he listened to the fan-base in his early months and started to be pragmatic to get results.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #27 on: October 6, 2015, 11:12:22 am »
That's probably very true, but people should expect that with a young manager. Most managers his age go through this period of doubt and anxiety at a smaller club and the best ones come out the other side with a better understanding. Really, this period of his career should still be at Swansea, but we took a chance on his potential, like we have with many young players.

It's unrealistic to expect Rodgers learning to be linear on an upward trajectory. Rather than implementing his preferred style he listened to the fan-base in his early months and started to be pragmatic to get results.

People should expect that with a young manager. So we shouldn't have got a young manager. Dalglish was good because he worked within an established framework, with Moran, Evans et al providing an unchanged coaching set up. And even then, judging from his approach in his later stint, Dalglish was always more of a hands off manager, rather than someone who combined coaching with all the other duties. The overall set up remained the same throughout, with Dalglish adjusting it from time to time.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #28 on: October 6, 2015, 11:14:42 am »
12/13 - 61
13/14 - 84
14/15 - 62
(Club finished on 52 pts in 11/12)

Averaged 69pts per season while rebuilding a side and adapting them to a new style of play.

Cup competitions were obviously a big disapointment but it quickly became apparent that wasn't Rodgers speciality.

In hindsight his league record actually has been pretty good. Instant improvement in his first season, a title challenge in his second and a below par finish in his 3rd.

Really he should have been given this season to prove he get us back into top 4. He lost too many fans with the poor finish to last season, a tough and uninspiring start to this along with the availability of Klopp lead to boo's and there for a knee jerk decision from the club. That's not saying it's the wrong decision, it's just saying its a premature one.

The next manager will be expected to average more points over the next few seasons as he's walking into a more settled side (finished on 62pts last season, compared to 52 in Kennys season).

An improvement in the cups is essential also as the lack of silverware was a fair criticism of Rodgers and our performances in Europe are really where his inexperience showed.

Hopefully Rodgers will be rememebered as a man who helped build the foundations of a great Liverpool side not "a nearly man" who never brought the club in a trophy. Time will tell I guess but best of luck to him in the future, would like to see him take some time out and work further on the defensive aspect of his coaching and maybe spend some time monitoring how top managers juggle Europe and domestic leagues and set up tacticaly. Just my opinion though of course, he's a clever man and I'm sure he knows where he needs to improve.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 11:16:37 am by ShayGuevara »
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #29 on: October 6, 2015, 11:24:31 am »
People should expect that with a young manager. So we shouldn't have got a young manager. Dalglish was good because he worked within an established framework, with Moran, Evans et al providing an unchanged coaching set up. And even then, judging from his approach in his later stint, Dalglish was always more of a hands off manager, rather than someone who combined coaching with all the other duties. The overall set up remained the same throughout, with Dalglish adjusting it from time to time.
That's the problem for me with Rodgers' sacking, the owners have appointed a young, inexperienced manager and as soon as things have gone wrong, sacked him. If they appointed a young manager they should have known this was likely to happen and been prepared to see it through. If you're not prepared to accept any bad patches, hire someone who will give you the instant impact you want. The whole recruitment process, from players to coaching staff, looks flawed at the moment with no direction or system.
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Online JackWard33

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #30 on: October 6, 2015, 11:29:49 am »
Well he had his limitations.  Don't we all?  He was tactically poor in my view and a bit too Dunning and Kruger for my liking, but I want to highlight something I do respect him for....

He can coach.  And he can particularly improve attacking players who have a high skill set.

Make no mistake.  The performances of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling were hugely improved because of his work with them.  Some of the football they produced in his good season will be remembered for a long time.

Thanks for making us believe just for a brief moment.

And Coutinho and Henderson

Both anecdotally (if you read interviews with players) and in terms of improvements on the pitch he's a top top coach
Sadly woefully inexperienced and maybe will never be good enough off the pitch
It's a shame British managers are brought up with the idea that unless they do everything it's a slight on them... Rodgers working with a DoF or any structure in which he just had to coach the team would have a chance to be great

Sadly he lost his confidence/direction in the last 18 months, I'd argue circumstances were massively against him, but I hope he can rebuild his career - his team produced some of the best attacking football LFC has ever seen and the memory of that will way out last the memory of the last year
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 11:32:16 am by JackWard33 »

Offline Sangria

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #31 on: October 6, 2015, 11:31:09 am »
That's the problem for me with Rodgers' sacking, the owners have appointed a young, inexperienced manager and as soon as things have gone wrong, sacked him. If they appointed a young manager they should have known this was likely to happen and been prepared to see it through. If you're not prepared to accept any bad patches, hire someone who will give you the instant impact you want. The whole recruitment process, from players to coaching staff, looks flawed at the moment with no direction or system.

I think they recognised their original decision was flawed enough not to want to continue down the road, but instead cut their losses and go down a more recognised road instead. Going by who's been approached, the line of reasoning this time round is clear enough and orthodox enough not to rely so much on blind hope.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #32 on: October 6, 2015, 11:44:37 am »
That's the problem for me with Rodgers' sacking, the owners have appointed a young, inexperienced manager and as soon as things have gone wrong, sacked him. If they appointed a young manager they should have known this was likely to happen and been prepared to see it through. If you're not prepared to accept any bad patches, hire someone who will give you the instant impact you want. The whole recruitment process, from players to coaching staff, looks flawed at the moment with no direction or system.
They shouldn't have been taking such a gamble from the outset. It was totally flawed to think that they could build sustainable success by stripping experience from the side, replacing it with young promising and ultimately unproven talent, who'd be led by a young promising and ultimately unproven manager.

To pursue a policy of youth, they ideally needed a manager with experience.

Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #33 on: October 6, 2015, 11:47:08 am »
I think they recognised their original decision was flawed enough not to want to continue down the road, but instead cut their losses and go down a more recognised road instead. Going by who's been approached, the line of reasoning this time round is clear enough and orthodox enough not to rely so much on blind hope.
It's crazy when you think about it, that such intelligent people would pursue such an obviously flawed and risky policy. The manager & DOF are arguably the two most important appointments they would make, and they screwed up both of them. That sounds rather insulting to Rodgers, but I don't mean it to be. My point is that he was never qualified for the job.

Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #34 on: October 6, 2015, 11:48:36 am »
That's the problem for me with Rodgers' sacking, the owners have appointed a young, inexperienced manager and as soon as things have gone wrong, sacked him. If they appointed a young manager they should have known this was likely to happen and been prepared to see it through. If you're not prepared to accept any bad patches, hire someone who will give you the instant impact you want. The whole recruitment process, from players to coaching staff, looks flawed at the moment with no direction or system.

Yep, basically FSG are saying they got this completely wrong. Not just that Brendan was the wrong man but that he had the wrong profile. If they hire Klopp they would be, at the very least, getting a man with the right profile.

The only way that FSG's  model made sense, i.e. a young coach, would be with an experienced DOF. In that system the coach is expendable but the philosophy is not. In fairness that's originally what they wanted. What we ended up with was a fudge.

Just as a postscript, the idea that Klopp would choose his own DOF would be another fudge but that's for  another thread.
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Offline mercury

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #35 on: October 6, 2015, 11:53:43 am »
The management may have realized they made a wrong appointment in that it's too big a job for Rodgers at this point in his development. But my two pence is, more importantly, Rodgers lost his job primarily because of his loggerhead with TC.  Someone has to indeed need to, go; and this is corporate America, they do not tolerate open defiance (real of perceived) from their "employees".  Rodgers would only be safe when he was winning BIG but he also hung himself in his, I would say, immaturity in the treatment of players not "signed" by him.



Offline steveeastend

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #36 on: October 6, 2015, 11:55:10 am »
It's crazy when you think about it, that such intelligent people would pursue such an obviously flawed and risky policy.

But that's the thing with Klopp... he may have more to offer compared to Rodgers. But still he is awful lot about emotions and not the kind of sane football manager with the experience needed on the top level.

Then there is the handling with stars and english press...Even with Rafa, for not being an ex-star player had his problems with star players AND the press as well who kind of shows more respect to a big name than a young guy from abroad. Klopp IS a risky decision at this point, Ancelotti the man offering enough experience to put the squad in the right place and having the reputation for not getting lost when the going gets tough.

But from what we've seen so far from FSG,  they kind of like going against the obvious, reasonable..they kind of like the thunder, the noise coming with a decision which, at first sight, looks like THE next big thing coming. But there is no such thing, usually, you have to be extremely lucky to find someone like Rafa who does, at the same time, match with the club.

A different way though would be to go for a sane football decision. FSG should have burned their fingers enough already to stop the hyperbole and illusions of grandeur and think twice before appointing someone like Klopp.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 12:00:53 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline leivapool

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #37 on: October 6, 2015, 12:06:56 pm »
I thought this was quite telling from Sterling at the weekend :

 “The tempo, the passing, the two-touch movement in training; it’s really surprised me,” he says of his first few months in Manchester. “It’s really sharp, really good to be involved in.

Telling because I would have expected this type of training from Rodgers sessions but it obviously wasn't happening

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/02/manchester-city-raheem-sterling-tired-england-liverpool

Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #38 on: October 6, 2015, 12:11:23 pm »


 “The tempo, the passing, the two-touch movement in training; it’s really surprised me,” he says of his first few months in Manchester. “It’s really sharp, really good to be involved in.

Telling because I would have expected this type of training from Rodgers sessions but it obviously wasn't happening

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/02/manchester-city-raheem-sterling-tired-england-liverpool



For two touch movement you need talent, big talent.. unfortunately we bought players in summer who would break their legs trying that on a constant basis... Milner, Clyne, Ings, Gomez..

This summer, we definitely made a step backwards in terms of squad policy while spending a fortune on players who are miles from being able to play anything like two touch football.

If Sterling is the player for that sort of football is another question, for sure he is talented enough to learn playing that way while being better in counter attack, offering incredible pace with the ball at his feet. The reason he joined City is probably a question of money and CL football..
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 12:17:05 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #39 on: October 6, 2015, 12:13:26 pm »
Fair points,

I recognize the risk with Klopp & wish they reappointed Rafa on numerous occasions. Ancoletti is the more measured signing, he's intelligent, he's stable & he's very experienced. I just don't know if he is the right fit for now. He probably would have been more suited to inherit Rafa's squad as the team was there, he just needed to mould it a bit.

Despite the risks, Klopp is probably what we need right now, someone who can come in and galvanize the troops (fans and players alike) & inject some energy and passion back into this team. He's also someone that will work under a DOF, depending on who we chose. I think this is a crucial appointment and something we desperately need to get right.

I'd like to see them bring some ex players back into the fold, so we have more experience and heritage throughout the club. They should be given positions that hold some weight, much more than ambassadorial roles.