Topic: Round Table Discussion - Young Boys 3-5 Liverpool

[royhendo]

Well, that was delightfully bonkers wasn't it?

Apparently the average age of the team was 15.2 years not including Carragher, Enrique and Downing, and it's possibly fair to say Brendan Rodgers would have been better off doing just that - not including Carragher, Enrique and Downing. As it was, we have some good young players, don't we?

It wasn't a classic, but it was fun. What did you make of it? I hope Suso's confidence starts to grow, and I hope Rodgers really starts to see what Henderson can do from here on. There's some player there if he's developed properly.

[StevenLFC]

I thought the midfield and attacking players played well, we moved the ball nicely and Henderson looked really good. Felt sorry for Pacheco as he was a bit isolated at times as Suso often drifted wide. Enrique looked poor again, which is an issue as it means we will be playing Johnson at left back unless Enrique improves dramatically.

I remember Gerrard coming on against Napoli a few years back and dominating, well Shelvey did a similar job today and he's only 20 years old. He took his two goals really well, especially the second.

[Col]

For all Downing's criticisms, and he gets many, he got two assists today without playing particularly well. Henderson, for all his criticisms, got two assists and had the type of game he often has in the centre of midfield.

The signs are promising for the guys who have a lot to prove. I've lamented Downing's lack of bottle time and time again, but at the end of the day I don't think we can really complain too much if he sets up two goals whilst being pretty much bang average in most other regards.

A lot of eyes will have been on those two, and like them or loathe them, they both produced the goods today.

Overall, it was an entertaining game, made as fun by sloppiness as by talent and ability.

Jose Enrique had an absolute stinker. A real honker. A John-Arne-Riise at his one-footed-worst, rotter of a game. If there is (JAR aside) a more one-footed player in the league, I'd love someone to point him out to me. After a very, very good start, Enrique is quickly heading the way that Riise did in his last two seasons with us - consistently turning in performances that are not good enough. I like the guy, I like the attitude, I like the strength... but something's telling me that his good form upon signing for us was more of a purple patch than his genuine level. I hope I'm wrong.

Jamie Carragher? Next.

Coates looks decent and classy, but doesn't impose himself enough yet. Wisdom and Suso both put in good showings on their debuts, and hopefully they'll be able to kick on from here. Pacheco looked a little lost, but that's to be expected when we persistently hurled in crosses around the two centre backs - he needs balls in to feet to thrive.

Sahin looks a little off the pace still, but I like the way he's willing to get beyond the front line. He's an intelligent player, and a good user of the ball. The early signs are promising.

Shelvey did what Shelvey always tries to do, only today it worked. A good little cameo.

Onwards and upwards.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Right I will get my gripe out of the way early doors.  Sahin is a liability.  The fanboys promised me a Molby-Lite, the Turkish Alonso.  Sorry lads standing on the ball looking cool before spraying inch perfect passes is lovely but if you want to be the quarterback and have all the options laid out in front of you then you have got to read the game and be a defensive enforcer too.

I am hoping that it is in there and Brendan can cajole it out of him because if it ain't then he is fuck all use to us until Lucas comes back.

Pacheco, in fairness to him he never got much support and he worked hard but this particular Lazarus does not look a likely candidate for resurrection just yet.  I hope he gets another chance a bit deeper.  That might be difficult though because Suso occupied that role this evening and showed some very nice flashes indeed.

Glimpses from Assaidi.  Unspectacular but productive from Downing.

Really promising from Wisdom. 

I think the winners this evening were the fringe players though rather than the kids.  We looked much more of a threat as soon as Borini replaced Pacheco.  Shelvey probably cemented his place for Sunday and Henderson was man of the match by a mile for me.  I agree with Roy, there is a real player in there and if Rodgers has anything about him he will bring that out. He needs to because we need him.

[The 5th Benitle]

Enjoyed the game enormously. It was a glimpse into the future, and I like it
 
I won't go through all the players but the two I was watching most closely in Suso and Wisdom didn't disappoint. They played well but what impressed me most was their confidence on the ball.
 
As a confirmed Jordan Henderson fan, I was delighted to see him play so well. He wasn't immaculate but very, very good. An unlucky early booking saw no letup in his harrying of the opposition, he hardly gave the ball away and the two passes to Shelvey late on were excellent. What impressed me most though was his attitude. Although young he was one of the most senior players on the pitch and I think he thrived on it.
 
Borini though changed the game with his clever movement, and I think we have a real prospect there.
 
It's obvious to me that there's a blueprint throughout the club for how we want the first team to play, we haven't got there yet but the youngsters are getting there quickly.
 

[Yorkykopite]

Enjoyed that more than I've enjoyed a Liverpool game in ages. I loved the team selection although it was obvious from the start we'd have to score a hat-ful to win. I said as much as soon as I saw Carragher in the team. He has to defend deep, whatever else happens - and with Sahin, Suso and Henderson in central midfield that was always going to mean that Young Boys would get their chances to run at our defence on a 'big' pitch. As it turned out, Carragher was even worse than we could imagine. He's really not fit enough to play professional football now.  The simple things - the really simple things - now look to be beyond him.

However we did score goals. Loads of 'em. And we also played pretty well. Better than pretty well. I know we've played kids before in the early rounds of the UEFA cup (and the League Cup) but I've never seen a team of kids playing like a team. All of them knew what they were doing. Some did it very well.

The losers tonight (apart from Jamie) were Downing and Enrique. Both worked their socks off. Both came up short. Downing in particular suffered by comparison with Assaidi. Yes, he has pace. He's quick. But he doesn't have quick feet which Assaidi has. A couple of times tonight Assaidi beat his man by offering the ball with a short stab of his left foot before using quick feet to change its direction. He was away! Downing can't do that. 

Enrique suffered. That lack of a right foot is a problem and Rodgers knows it. It's as if he's phobic about using it. Tonight he tried to slice the ball away with is left instead of using his right - something that added a full a second on to his clearance (then it was too late) and which meant he had to use the outside of his boot even while running backwards (no direction, predictably). But the lack of a right foot gets him into little difficulties all the time.

Great stuff from Wisdom and Coates tonight. Promising stuff from Assaidi and Suso. Valiant stuff from Pacheco, playing out of position. And of course grand stuff from Henderson and Shelvey.

Sahin? Kev has a point, no doubt. You can see why Mourinho thought the Premier League might be good for him. He needs to fight his corner. Our worry, as Liverpool fans, is that in the meantime we have to put up with a number of under-powered performances while he learns about team responsibility and sheer hard work. However, he did one or two things on the ball tonight which were sublime. And Suso clearly enjoyed playing with a like-mind.

A lovely night though. The Swiss lads were knackered by 70 minutes. I'm not surprised.

 

[Juan Loco]

I think the winners this evening were the fringe players though rather than the kids.  .

Agreed with this. Did wonder afterwards as well how many of those brought on 'should' be in the 'cup team' this year, if we had that sort of budget. Borini and Shelvey you'd suspect, but we're having to push through players quickly and I don't have a problem with that (at least in the short-term).


My concern going in to todays match was that we'd play nice football but I couldn't see where we'd get goals. We've scored five, but I still feel that way if this is going to be our teams for the cups. I think we played some really nice football, but I don't think we were a threat except for their mistakes, and then when Shelvey and Borini came on. That's fine though, if we can stay in games for 70 minutes then bring on first teamers that might be enough to get us through the group whist giving the kids experience.

I thought Wisdom and Suso did well without being spectacular. Suso showed 2 or 3 moments of real quality, but also why I don't particularly like him in that position. He was uninvolved for most of his time on the pitch and I thought started seeing more of the ball when he moved wider. Whilst there's no doubt the quality when he gets on the ball, I think he struggles to make the space to see enough of it. I would love to see Adorjan get a chance in the same role in the cups, just to see how he does by comparison.

Wisdom was solid, he's a very talented boy, but I'd be wary of going overboard. I see people pushing him ahead of Flanagan. Maybe, but Flanagan's own debut was one of assurance and maturity beyond his years. What happened with Flanagan was that when he became a regular and the novelty wore off, people started expecting some major attacking contribution from right back. We didn't get that from Wisdom (save for the set piece). He was solid and he had a good game, but if that had been his 15th start not his first I can't help but think the same people praising his solidity and assurance at the back would be those lamenting his lack of attacking intent.

I fear this all may read as a bit miserable whe it shouldn't be. I was delighted with tonight. It was the sort of thing I've been wishing we'd do for ages, and I hope it continues through the course of the competition (and maybe the other cups). If we can introduce 2 or 3 players into the squad that can stay there over the coming years then that's how I'm going to measure success in this competition this season, because going all out to win it seems unlikely at this stage (though fingers crossed!)

[Mr Dilkington]

Great fun that.

As soon as the team came out tonight I found myself looking forward to the game. The inclusion of Carra was a wee downside, but there was so much to look forward to. Assaidi's debut, as well as how Suso and Wisdom would get on.

Wisdom was nice and tidy, but he Isn't a full back. Judge him when he moves in one. Nice to see how well he attacked that header - reminiscent of Micah Richards in his early days. Such a great athlete.

It's a shame that 90% of the time Coates gets on the pitch, he has to worry about Carra, rather than concentrating on his own game. Playing Carra is not helping the collective, but it's particularly harming Coates' development.

Enrique is becoming a proper worry now. He still dallies on the ball, even three months after Rodgers arrived. When will he learn? Or will he just not learn at all? There's a good player in there somewhere, but I don't think we're going to see him at Liverpool.

Kev - can definitely see your concerns re: Sahin, but I think there's a few important points to be made in his defence. I think once he settles in beside Lucas and Allen, you'll see a different player. He does need protection, because he's not the most mobile, but tonight wasn't really the best occasion to judge properly. He will do fine in time, it's just handy that we have two young players in Henderson and Shelvey who did their chances no harm tonight to fill in whilst Sahin acclimatises himself. Here is the question I have over Henderson though: can we trust him to put in a similarly assured performance against a higher standard of opposition? It's all well and good doing it against the likes of Young Boys, but we can't afford players to go into their shells against the likes of United on Sunday. Notice how often Rodgers talks about Joe Allen's courage on the ball. Henderson lacks that. If Allen and Henderson were to have a keepy up competition, I'm sure the Englishman would win - but I know who I'd rather have in my team in the heat of battle every week.

Shelvey is just boss. Properly progressing every week and if he can add goals he's a hell of a prospect. Wonder how long it will take for England to call him up. Being what they are, I expect them to continue their project of playing a Man United reserve player in the most important position on the field. Shelvey is so much better than Cleverley. In fact, bar Wilshere, I can't think of any other young English midfielder who is better than our Jonjo.

Loved Suso's performance tonight too. He's such a beautiful player to watch. His hip movements are fantastic, and he can throw defenders off with just that. He is all left foot, but once he gains a wee bit more of a burst of speed then I think he'll become much more complete. Right now, he doesn't have the acceleration to go past players on the inside, so he does cut back outside too often, but he's a natural footballer, and Rodgers clearly likes him.

We will be incredibly lucky to see another Liverpool game as exciting as that was for the remainder of the season.

[royhendo]

So what of Assaidi then? The late input from Borini and Shelvey are rightly lauded as having changed the script, but for me he showed some real promise.

And Henderson - again, the question of his assurance in bigger games, but isn't that largely down to our memory of him in those games while deployed as a stop gap on the right? For me, when he plays in the middle, he can look genuinely imposing. He's all over a midfield like stink on doo doo. And with genuine quality too.

[StevenLFC]

Assaidi did well, he looks to have a bit of pace about him and also looks like he can either beat his man on the outside or by cutting in. He did look knackered when he came off, but that's understandable having not played for some time. We need options in that front three and he's definitely another one.

Henderson can play in the middle in big games, and I think Roy is correct. We judge him on past performances where he's had to fill the gap on the right hand side. He is rightly behind Allen and Shelvey (in my opinion), but if either gets injured or suspended he's more than capable of slotting in.

[No666]

The most interesting thing about that game tonight was seeing a system begin to click, at least with those people with whom clickable is potentially there. Carra - enough said. It's getting tragic, like some Shakespearean play in which the supernatural forces are gathering and there's n'owt our hero can do. But we seem to be at that stage you see when teaching someone to drive - it's all there but it's not automatic, so there's a second's time delay between the moment when something should be executed and the moment when it is.
 
Apart from that the most entertaining thing was the hyperbole on the post-match thread. A promising cameo against a poor Swiss side and Shelvey is compared to Zidane and I'm told he'll score more than Gerrard in his prime. Having said that, I like his attitude. I like glimpses of Suso's attitude. MotM: Henderson.

[Flinstone]

excellent lineup.would have preferred a natural centre forward and sama with coates but still brilliant.

what was surprising was everyone seemed to gel.it wasn't a disjointed performance and we looked a team.the real test will come against anzhi and udinese.i wonder how we will look then.

on suso ,good with the ball at his feet.

to play behind the striker you need to have awareness of space.sometimes you need to play the ball in your first touch and move.he could barely find space to receive the ball when he was there.

when he's playing on the wing he's going to come inside.wisdom did not make the overlapping runs,johnson would.i wonder how that partnership would work out.

he seems to have a classy left foot too,if he develops a defensive side to his game he could possibly play deep too.didn't rodolfo say he needs to listen more?

he's a talent no doubt and he needs games now,perhaps a loan would do him good.

wisdom was class but so hesitant to cross the halfway line.unless he develops rapidly that isn't his position.i think we are going to enjoy the europa league more.robbo and yesil next?

[Red-juvenated]

What Brendan did with playing the youngsters was the best thing. He has been trying to instill his style of play in our first team and the older players take longer to change. The younger players grasp it quicker and we could see that yesterday. It is also good to have the same philosophy through the squad as these players are our future. This was a little sample of what Brendan is trying to do with the first team and it wont be long before we see our senior internationals produce exhilarating performances.

It also became evident that the changes being made are massive, a transformation. The 'old guard' is being replaced by a new younger version, with a new determination and commitment to playing good possession football. The signs of a new ERA are there. Highlighted even more by the weaknesses of 'older' players like veteran Carragher standing out like a sore thumb. His days are numbered and he wont be playing much.

The senior players can learn a lot from this display, and also be aware that if they dont perform, the yougsters are eager to take up their places. This performance is good for everyone and it should lead us to improvements through the season.

Striker crisis? what striker crisis.

[edeyj]

Just a quick point. The lads that came on at 70 mins or so did make the difference but lets not forget that Young Boys looked knackered  by that time.

I was more impressed by the skill and passing in the first 15 minutes when YB had the energy to press hard high up the field. It's a lot easier to come on when the opposition are spent.

Seriously worried for Enrique and Carra - neither looked good enough for this level. Carra is understandable but Enrique? What's happened to him?

[cox3100]

apart from Enrique and Carragher (and possibly Downing) i thought everybody played very well,when you think that Young Boys are half way through there season and played there full strength side against a team mainly made up of kids,that was a very impressive performance(defensive side apart).

Suso,Wisdom,Henderson,Coates were all vying for MOM at times,Assaidi looked assured on his debut although looke shattered when he came off,Sahin looke good in patches although he does need to tighten up when were defending.

thought Pacheco looked lost although he never stopped running.

all in all was very impressed with the performance,we should stick with the kids but should fill the bench with more first team players as a precaution,this kids deserve another game together.

[hollger]

I was really looking forward to this game, hoping we could pick up from our league woes and generate some momentum / feel-good factor for the game on Sunday. I was a little worried when I saw the squad & eventual team - well, worried isn't quite the right word as I suppose I was more nervously excited. I really wanted to see what this experiment (if it's fair to call it that - perhaps calculated risk is more apt) could do.

What a start! A very bizarre own goal but you can't complain going ahead so early. Young Boys did come back at us right away though and caused some panicky moments and although I was concerned the defence should have been doing better than it was, I couldn't help but enjoy the end-to-end nature of the game.

Then came the equaliser. What Enrique was doing I'll never know, but what a mess all round. I thought "ah, here comes the usual deflation from conceding" but it didn't really show (maybe because the 'usual suspects' weren't on the pitch...!?) and a couple of minutes later we're ahead from a corner. Great to see Wisdom score on his debut as he'd been having a decent game. Climbed very well for the header and put it right in the corner - admittedly they should have had people on the line, but that's nothing to do with us. Half time and 2-1 up. Not going too badly is this, I thought.

They started the second half much the better and soon we're 3-2 down. At this point I was trying to convince myself this was always on the cards given the team chosen and mentally preparing for the battering we'd be getting in the press, right before the Utd game. But what was this? A couple of changes and suddenly we're actually going at them, trying to not only equalise but go on and win? A great attitude from the players, none of the 'heads down' bollocks we've seen from some recently and some outstanding performances (Henderson, Shelvey). 5-3, what a game!!

I thought Suso showed us glimpses of what he can be at times. The way he ghosted into the box early on beating 2 or 3 players was lovely. I know it was 'only' Young Boys, but his pace and trickery reminded me of something David Silva might put together. It was a shame he over did it and didn't smash a shot in when he had the chance, but still, it was a delightful move. He also played intelligent passes all night. Shelvey was tremendous when he came on, took his goals superbly (especially the second one) and dragged us to victory in the way a certain captain fantastic has done on numerous occasions over the years. Now I'm not saying he's going to be as good as Stevie, but he certainly has talent and the confidence to pull off the things he tries. Will hopefully develop into a cracking player for us, thanks Rafa!

Borini did well when he came on too. In a way I'm disappointed he couldn't have gotten a touch on Coates' header as the confidence from a goal would definitely help him, but he can be happy with his performance. Henderson was very good, worked hard all night and played some lovely passes. Also involved in Shelvey's first which was a great piece of football. Assaidi looked good in fits and starts, but he was clearly tired when he came off. Once he gains full fitness though he might prove himself to be a shrewd acquisition, as he's clearly talented.

Any disappointments? Well, things didn't really happen for Pacheco, did they? Enrique was hopeless at times. I really hope we can sort it out with him as he's a liability at times. Such a promising start when we signed him, hopefully he can get back to that level and improve. Shahin...? Some excellent touches, superb passing and vision, but he needs to work harder if he's the midfielder who's tasked with holding. Got caught out a few times. Hopefully he's just adapting to our system and re-gaining his full fitness and not just a 'luxury' player, as I don't think we can afford for him to be (unless a fully fit Lucas is in the team). Also I hoped that Yesil would get on, but I suppose the game didn't really go our way until we'd used up our subs. Would have been nice to see him against a lower quality defence. Still, there's a lot more cup games we can use to get him going.

Overall, I'm pleased. Signs that a system is beginning to 'click' with certain players and if we can develop it then we'll really have something. There are obviously some concerns (cough*Carragher*cough) but I'm not going to allow myself to dwell on them, as we've just won 5-3

[WOOLTONIAN]

Complete breath of fresh air.
Seemed like total chaos at times but got me thinking. The Next generation series might well be one to watch.
Wouldn't be right to single out and individual, but Henderson looks like he's prepared to fight for a place in the team.
There is a ray of sunshine on the horizon for the first time in a long time.

[L666KOP]

And Henderson - again, the question of his assurance in bigger games, but isn't that largely down to our memory of him in those games while deployed as a stop gap on the right? For me, when he plays in the middle, he can look genuinely imposing. He's all over a midfield like stink on doo doo. And with genuine quality too.

He looked like he was the only 'senior' if you will that looked like he was trying to earn a place for Sunday. Having to fight for a place in midfield will only do him good, it looks as though Brendan may be giving him the season that Kenny should have give him last season.
Henderson, Coates and Shelvey all stood out as fringe players on the cusp of first teamers. The younger lads all did ok on their early outings, consistency will be the deciding factor in how many progress, Enrique and Carragher played like it was their first game together, Downing was, err Downing. Pacheco will feel a little aggrieved I feel. Suso needs more of the ball than he got. Sahin looks cool, composed and elegant, without really doing a great deal, in fact I'd go as far as to say lazy?

Same again next time please, but let's have a look at Yesil.

[Fat Scouser]

Apparently the average age of the team was 15.2 years

Was it that old?

[Crosby Nick]

That was enjoyable.

Too often in recent years when we have chopped and changed we have seen very disjointed performances. Obviously this was by no means a complete performance given the terrible defending frequently on show but at least the team played well and with purpose. The first goal came ‘from nothing’ but it was the end result of a really good spell of possession which was great to see. The kids played with a real freedom, like we’ve seen them in reserve and youth games over the years.

Henderson’s role in the 4th goal was superb. Watching it back, he was halfway in our half when the ball was given away by them to Borini. 5-10 seconds later (I wasn’t clock watching!) and he’s in their box and has the presence of mind to play the delightful first time pass in to Shelvey. Many other players would have gone themselves or taken a touch before slipping it inside and the chance may have gone. Really good awareness, which after making a lung busting run to get there is no mean feat.

Rhi mentioned it already but Borini’s movement for the 5th was great too. Completely opened up the space for Shelvey. He still had a lot to do and he took it superbly but that sort of unselfish run often goes un-noticed or unrewarded. It might seem unfair on him after that but I agree with the logic from someone on here (can’t remember who now) who said they’d have him as an impact player off the bench for Sunday. If he comes on like that with 20-25 minutes to go his pace, movement and off the ball work could really do some damage I think.

The result and performance can only be good for the squad. Rodgers now knows he can trust a few of the younger kids off the bench or even starting now and again in the League. Our midfield options look strong. Not flawless yet, and it may take some time to work out the best combinations but we have 6 strong options for the 3 midfield slots now.

Oh, and Assaidi was encouraging I thought. Looks like he has a bit of pace and trickery, isn't afraid to try things and just has a bit of a spark. Again, in the short term another good option off the bench if we want to mix things up or be more direct.

[gorgepir]

The thing I enjoyed most about this game was that even though we fell behind, I felt that we would fight back and have a shot at winning, which has been a feeling I have been missing for awhile now watching the first team play.

[Fat Scouser]

It was enjoyable, but it was also very scary. I hope the kids are given a run in all the cups. That can only be good for the club and the future. But I think you get my drift... "Money for a centre forward, Brendan? Don't be silly, why do you need to buy one of them when you've got that Wisdom kid?"

The match itself, well, it's hard to take anything from it except, Carra's legs are gone, but he'll be good to keep around for the youngsters, Enrique needs to stop giving the ball away, Downing is not good enough. Other than that, time will tell.

[WOOLTONIAN]

Now bear with me here, just a quickie on watching match on tv

I love my missus but last night.....
Who's that
Wisdom Love, 
Well who's that
Sahin Love
Who did he say
Suso Love ,
Who's the little lad up front
Thats Pacheco love
(when the next name was mentioned) before she could ask I said
Assaidi Love, FFS Lynn tell me you recognise CARRA !

[scraz]

I personally was very disapointed with Pacheco. He has his chanceto shine and he went missing for large % of the game. I questioned durng the transfer window LFC wanting to offload him. I might be a little harsh but last night I saw why they did.

Suso was good.He is very composed with the bal and not afraid to take people on.

Assaidi made an acceptable debut.He was willing to take people on and looks fast

Carra An Enrique were Poor.Carra was done for pace a few times while Enrique just was unsure

Hedo played well which is nice to see.He was unselfish in the shelvey goal

Coates did well andI think in time to come he will be a good player.

I would have likd to see yessil but sure thts how it goes.

Glad with th win and I think overal its a big 

[Stevo79]

As a lot of posters have already mentioned, Henderson thrived in the central role and that performance must give him a chance of starting regularly now. At least until Lucas is back anyway.

Having him in there alongside Allen would release Allen a little and would allow him to dictate things further up the pitch. Henderson also has such an engine that it means he is dangerous in the attacking third as well, especially later on in games when several other players are tiring.

With a run of games Assaidi looks like he could pose a threat as he has really quick feet and the ability to glide past players. I'd like to see him on the bench for Sunday as he could be a useful sub to bring on later in the game.

Borini continues to impress with the clever forward runs he makes. Playing him centrally on Sunday to make those same runs behind Vidic would work really well and mean Suarez could play from the right hand side where Evra wouldn't be able to cope with him.

[sat]

The defending was comical at times but I thoroughly enjoyed the game, great to see us coming from behind to win for once. Positives were Wisdom and Suso from the youngsters and Jonjo and Hendo. Plus the first team are fully rested for Sunday.

[Zlen]

Good, entertaining game that left me with a rejuvenated smile.
I think some of our senior players like Downing, Enrique and Carragher should have really played better and/or imposed themselves more on the opposition, but it turned out alright in the end. Youth was mostly bright and fought well, some of them looked very assured and signs of a really promising crop steadily developing are all there.

Happy.

[Draex]

What a game, felt like a true rollercoaster.. Even though we conceded a few very weak goals I felt we'd get another and by hook or by crook we did!

I was genuinely excited by the lineup - it had all the ingredients for the scoreline we got and it certainly didn't disappoint.

Negatives first..

Carragher is fast becoming a liability, like Boxer in Animal Farm one should know when ones legs are done and pass over the mantle.. Rodgers should know better than bigging him up in a press conference as the lofty words of praise didn't measure up to the ability in the field. Still his experience is invaluable around the squad, but his playing days should be very limited.

Downing, I'm sorry but the guy just regresses day on day.. It's all well and good getting to the byline and winging in a cross and thinking your job is done if you're an average player.. We had Pachecho in the center - what is the point in aimlessly crossing into the danger area for a striker who thrives with the ball pulled back to his feet? Game intelligence - he takes the safe option and for someone whose been dropped for a 17 year old kid he's shown zero desire and fight when given the chance.

Enrique, dear dear - he certainly needs to follow Dorothy down that yellow brick road to find his brain.

Now the positives as of which there were many..

Henderson - a colossus in the center, he harassed, pressed and ran his heart out (Ball retention was pretty good too!).. His engine is something special, the fact that with 5minutes to go he was still storming the full length of the pitch tells you a lot about the kid.. He is a central midfielder - now we've established that he will grow and grow into a quality player.. Not many players would of passed back to Shelvey, the speed of thought and unselfishness (Some people will still try to use it as a yard stick to call him a bottler) in the 2nd assist was excellent.

Wisdom looked excellent, (I agree with the earlier posters likening to Micah Richards - I can see that) He is a big unit, but has lovely soft feet - think he drew 2/3 fouls with a quick turn or switching the ball to his other foot - once he gets some games at center half you'll see another level as well. Really calm and composed - him and Coates would look really good together.

Assaidi had a good debut, still a way to go with fitness but he will offer us a lot on the right with Sterling on the left.. He glides past opponents and has excellent feet, even if he does run like the hunchback of notre dame at times.

Pachech/Suso - didn't do much, Pacheco was out of position and Suso whilst for some moments of brilliance is a luxury player at times as the game can completely bypass him causing issues for our midfield.

Shelvey - amazing, not much more need be said!

Overall I thought it was brilliant - even if we had lost I would of been happy. One of the main gripes I had from last year - playing old and useless players and still loosing when you've got young hungry kids eager to get in there and have a blast.. If this is really "year zero" then this exposure for the likes of Suso/Wisdom will really put us in good stead for the next 5 years as they are going to be key players.

[Twelfth Man]

Even if we had lost that game 5-3, I think I would have been happy with some of the composed, intelligent, possession from the midfield. The mature build-up leading to the own goal, was exactly how I envision Rodgers teams to play. Slow patient build-up around the back, quick interchanges in midfield, between Hendo, Sahin and Suso, probing down first one wing, without the temptation to cross it, then moving it to the other side. It was wonderful to watch.

Wisdom and Hendo were standout performers. Wisdom looks like he is ready to step-up. The most troubling thing about the transfer window, was the rumour or fact that we tried to offload Jordan Henderson as a makeweight in the Dempsey farce. You would think Hendo would be an ideal Rodgers player, reads the game well, rarely gives the ball away, great attitude, intelligent without being spectacular. In many ways Hendo ticks all the boxes that Rodgers so enthuses over Lucas. BR wants to push Allen a bit further forward, so why has he not tried pairing him with Hendo? He's the closest we have to Lucas. It is the one glaring mistake of his reign so far. I hope he rectifies it.

After the Summer window I was a bit worried about throwing the kids in too early, well if yesterday is anything to go by, quite a few are ready and up for the challenge. Bodes well for the future. And a word for Rafa, the gift that keeps on giving.


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A note about the crowd yesterday, both the neutral sides were filled with local Swizz Reds, and it's the same across all the minor football European countries. Wherever we go across Europe, we always have the support of thousands of passionate local Reds. Only Barca, United can boast something even remotely similar. It is quite uplifting when you experience this abroad.

[memoriesgone]

This was not a typical Liverpool European away performance. Really doesn't matter what the opposition was. We've had far worse performances in places like Haifa,Prague with players who were much older than the ones playing today. What a show by the youngsters. Made me so proud.

I know a lot of people were watching Suso and Wisdom closely as was I. They had very assured debuts. If you watched our youth teams, you'd know they are all very comfortable on the ball so it's no surprise both looked so composed in possession. They were both solid and matured. I felt Suso was struggling to get into the game form the CAM position but showed a few glimpses of brilliance. He's got such great feet. I think we should be playing him on the wide right position though because he looked much more of a threat from there. A Silva, Luis Garcia type winger. As for Wisdom, having watched him for the reserves he can do a good job at right back plus his height might make people wary of playing him at CB. We'll see of course how things pan out for him.

Nobody has touched on it yet but I thought Brad Jones did well and I no longer worry about him coming in as cover for Pepe. The fact that he conceded three goals had a lot to do with some crazy defending from the back four (bar Wisdom). Why didn't Enrique just let Jones deal with the ball. It looked he thought he was in the opposition box the way he was gliding with the ball in front of Jones. Jones made a couple of good saves as well and it was more appreciable because he's hardly played in two years.

I thought the midfield looked much more comfortable in possession but with both Suso and Sahin not pressing enough and helping out in defence it made the game slightly more open. I think if Carra and Enrique didn't have such nervy performances this wouldn't have been a problem. Sahin had some good touches but looked off the pace understandably. His set pieces (corners so far) are a bit amazing. I was very impressed with Henderson. He was dominant in midfield - defending, pressing, tackling, covering for the fullbacks and distributing well. Another important thing that came out of that game was his aggression and leadership. Was not afraid to tell Enrique off when he misplaced a simple pass. And a Fuck off! to the referee towards the end lol. Who would have known Hendo could do that! Didn't have much chance to use the ball with the lack of movement from the likes of Downing but did better when Borini and Shelvey came on.

Assaidi showed some flashes, more to come hopefully. Pacheco is not a central striker, he's a wide forward or an attacking midfielder. I don't get this whole deal with playing players like Suarez and Pacheco as central strikers. I hope he gets a chance on the left next. We looked much better with Borini central and his movement allowed the midfield to use the ball better. I think Borini will definitely come good. We just need to be patient with him. I hope after he settles into the side he will play centrally more. His movement is sublime.

A great cameo from Shelvey who has looked one of the most likely goal scorers this season. Will do his confidence no harm to score those two. Credit to Henderson for two assists for the Shelvey goals, especially Shelvey's first one. Great drive and desire to get into the box and unselfish to play it first time to Shelvey. Good decision making from both and I can't wait to see them playing together in the league in the coming years. Some of our seniors should take note of the way our kids responded to being 3-2 down.

 I hope Enrique can improve on his performance. They've just been going downhill since January. We could have played Robinson there and looked more assured. Strange thing to say that you are better off playing a youngster than a senior player but that is the way it is with our current players. I hope we continue playing our youngsters in the EL and League cup games because they're talented and capable of putting in good performances as has been displayed in the past by Robbo, Flanno, Sterling, Morgan and now with Suso and Wisdom.

And Henderson - again, the question of his assurance in bigger games, but isn't that largely down to our memory of him in those games while deployed as a stop gap on the right? For me, when he plays in the middle, he can look genuinely imposing. He's all over a midfield like stink on doo doo. And with genuine quality too.

Forgive me, I have a bad memory but did he not play in midfield in the 4-1 win against Chelsea and was boss then as well?

[benn25]

For me, it proved our future is bright. For all the mistakes (goals), which was mainly down to the old guard, I thought we totally bossed the game and actually showed some composure in the final 3rd at times. Something we have been incredibly pathetic at recently. To me the kids have taken onboard what BR is trying to instill into the way we play. Don't rush to score. I honestly think everyone had a decent game, except Carra, who unfortunately is just not up to scratch anymore. Its his speed that lets him down and that ultimately gets him in trouble. Enrique. Wow. When he came to Anfield the guy was unbelievable. What the hell has happened? Just launch the fucking ball Jose. If in doubt, PUNT! Have a look at young Coates and see how he does it. Very simple old mucker, very simple. For me the telling moment was when the commentor said Enrique thought he was Puyol in the way he tries to dribble his way out of trouble. Enrique has proved he can do a job. He just needs to be a bit more clever. Know when to dribble, know when to pass and know when to put your fucking foot through it.
I honestly thought Downing had an okay game. Yea he lost the ball at times unnecessarily but at times he showed some good moments.
Even Brad Jones had a good game to be fair. I was reading the comments last night after the game and one poster said he was very nervous about Brad being in goal and doesnt fill him with much confidence. I can see that, as I feel on edge sometimes myself, but I do honestly think, with a few more games behind his belt he could be okay for us. Personally I would play him in this competition all the way to the final if we get there. He looked assured on cross ins. Just need to be a bit more aggressive with his players i think. An example of this for me was the 2nd or 3rd goal when Enrique passed it to one of the Young Boys players for them to score. For me Brad could of got to that if he had been more assertive and sure of what he was gonna do. Its mine! Boom. Slide in, take out your player, but you got the ball.
Pacheco, uum. This is an interesting one. A chance to prove what he's got but unfortunately he's just not a striker. Closed down well and worked hard but fizzled out till he got subbed.
Now Suso. Im probably gonna get lambasted for this, but I honestly thought he wasnt that great. Showed a few touches but never really got into the game.
Everyone else, especially Henderson played extremely well and proved we can do a job.
Overall the thing that impressed me was although we relinquished a lead and a comfortable lead in terms of play and not score, we showed some grit and determination to still and go out and win the game. I honestly think that if our senior squad was out we would of ended up losing that game or drawing.
A long way to go but its definitely time to go the Arsenal route and play our youngsters in this competition and in the Carling () cup for me.
Very pleased indeed.

[wampa1]

Apparently the average age of the team was 15.2 years not including Carragher, Enrique and Downing, and it's possibly fair to say Brendan

Show your workings.

[Upinsmoke]

It was entertaining wasn't it, a mixture of mistakes from either team and little bit of class by ourselves late on provided that.

It's a shame were making one or two mistakes lately that are getting punished continously, sometimes you ride your luck a bit and get away with it but were getting punished and rightly so. Obviously one or two negatives. Its a shame to see carragher decline, a real lack of pace by himself, leads to uncertainty around the other lads, should they cover carragher, should they go with the oppoenent, its difficult and creates confusion.

Enrique is making some strange choices, his decision making, his inability to do the simple defensive things at times is becoming frustrating to watch. He needs to up his game. He has alot to offer but he's being far too complacent.

Thought the two lads in the middle of the park, Sahin and Henderson did a good job. I don't consider either proper protection for the back four and it was important that they retained posession as much as possible, thought they both did that well, composed play. Suso struggled to get into the game first half, when he got the ball, he kept it well and got his head up but often there wasnt much infront of him and he was laying it back into Sahin and Henderson. Showed glimpses of his technical quality though, strong on the ball, never lets it get away from him and always looking to create something for the forwards when its on. Downing and Assaidi did well i thought, the latter always looked like worrying there fullback when he ran at them, decent from him considering its his first game. Downing was decent without being eye-catching.
Felt for pacheco, struggled to get on the ball, came deep looking for it but then was so deep there was nobody ahead of him, when it was played into him he struggled to hold it up, gave his all like, worked hard but just isolated at times and couldn't get into the game.

Thought the manager made good subs, they worked, deffo had an impact. Shelvey caught the eye because of his two goals but borini gave the defense a tough time with his runs, intelligent lad. Sterling didnt do too much but he was always a threat on the counter, meaning Young Boys couldnt go completely for broke because he would have them on the counter.

MOTM for me though was Wisdom, grabbed a goal, looked composed on the ball, powerful in the air both attacking and defensively, never looked out of place. Knew he was a good player but to do what he did in a position that isn't really considered completely natural for him, away from home, in europe and at that age, brilliant.

[saoirse08]

Now bear with me here, just a quickie on watching match on tv

I love my missus but last night.....
Who's that
Wisdom Love, 
Well who's that
Sahin Love
Who did he say
Suso Love ,
Who's the little lad up front
Thats Pacheco love
(when the next name was mentioned) before she could ask I said
Assaidi Love, FFS Lynn tell me you recognise CARRA !

I had the same thing with my missus. But it says a great deal for Shelvey's development because when he came on she said, "Oh I recognise him. He's good."

Like others have said, Henderson was the real star last night. It's been a while since we've had a central midfielder, most times the deepest of the three, bursting late in the box after forty/fifty
yard runs. He was fast, aggressive, his passing was mostly accurate, and bar one or two times when he played an overly 'safe' ball, when he could have moved it forward, he made the correct decisions.
His maturity was most evident when in comparison with a number of the more experience players whose decision making was shockingly poor on occasions.

Really felt sorry for Carra last night. Looked completely out of his depth, especially with Wisdom and Coates looking so assured to his right hand side. Noticeable now how he's never moved to the right CB position, if there's a right footer on the pitch, i.e Skrtel or Coates. Indeed, all Young Boys dangerous attacks seemed to come down our left where Enrique and Carra were positioned. In hindsight, would have liked to have seen Wisdom and Coates as the two centre backs & Robinson at left back. Not sure who could have covered right back, tho. (Flannagan perhaps?) I know that would have meant a very young back four, but if they had conceded 3 goals we would have been able to point to their respective ages. No excuses for how poor Enrique & Carra were, however.

Finally great to see Suso. Doubt we have a more technically gifted player at the club. Some delightful moments and look forward to seeing more of him through the season.

[Timbo's Goals]

Loved it like most everrybody else. From start to finish. From the pinball wizard opener to the Shelvey rasper, I thought the youngsters did amazingly well. Always trying to play football and succeeding for the most part.

Clearly the weak point was Danny Pacheco not being able to carry off the front man role. He tried his best but clearly it's just not a role he has in his locker and you do wonder why Rodgers thought for a minute that he did.

But finding negatives after last night is merely being as churlish as nitpicker manc pundit Strachan and, sadly, our own dear Robbie 'duped' by Strachan's parsimony into ridiculous negativity about the performance which was actually terrific for a young team thrown together against a side with no mean pedigree on their own midden in European football. They may not exactly be Barca but they're more than capable, given a sniff, of punishing a flimsy performance and ours was the opposite - a spirited display from everyone.

I think special mentions merited for Jordan Henderson, the fabulous Jonjo and Andre Wisdom. Least said about Norman Wisdom the better though I must say I do have a soft spot for Jose and I think he will return at some stage to the initial high level he showed when he arrived. I do agree with VDM about sahin. Hope he finds some mobility to complement his technical ability but at present does look a bit of a statue just waiting to be drifted past by anyone in an opposition shirt. Not sure a team in our position of transition can afford such a luxury

[The 5th Benitle]

Clearly the weak point was Danny Pacheco not being able to carry off the front man role. He tried his best but clearly it's just not a role he has in his locker and you do wonder why Rodgers thought for a minute that he did.

That was the one downer of the night for me too. I really like Dani, but seeing him struggle out of position when we could have had Morgan, Yesil or Ngoo there (forgive my ignorance if any of them injured) was disappointing.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't think you can doubt Sahin's quality, it's his motivation that is of more concern.  As said previously, I think he's come on loan here in view of a future place at Real.  The problem Rodgers has is how he gets the best out of Sahin and stop it turning into a transistional year for the player as he moves onto bigger things (at least in his mind).  Unfortunately, that's the position we find ourselves in.  Rodgers is going to have to work hard to ensure he gets every bit of value out of the player.

[koptician]

I personally was very disapointed with Pacheco. He has his chanceto shine and he went missing for large % of the game. I questioned durng the transfer window LFC wanting to offload him. I might be a little harsh but last night I saw why they did.

just to point out the Pacheco bashers the obvious

1) that is not his natural position, he is not at all a lead-the-line forward...he is much better as a wide forward where he can take on people and beat them and deliver a ball/take a shot.

2) He wasn't given any service he could capitalise on...he won't be battering in headers so why keep crossing?

He did a job for the team and ran his bollocks off.  I'm sure Brendan values his contribution to the cause.

[Hank Scorpio]

Just to add, Henderson should be playing in central midfield for us, given Lucas' injury.  If that means upsetting a few egos then so be it.

[Chakan]

That was the one downer of the night for me too. I really like Dani, but seeing him struggle out of position when we could have had Morgan, Yesil or Ngoo there (forgive my ignorance if any of them injured) was disappointing.

Yesil was on the bench. Would rather have him there instead of Dani. Pity that.