Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 265158 times)

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1120 on: January 14, 2011, 08:08:16 pm »
Has his son been born yet?
Not yet, as far as I know

Offline thegoodfella

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1121 on: January 14, 2011, 08:10:00 pm »
Not yet, as far as I know

Mrs. Lucas, is that you? ;D

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1122 on: January 14, 2011, 08:11:45 pm »
we accept he's Lucas Leiva, and focus on what he does bring our side?
That's just it though. Many people don't understand what he does bring to the side. Then when people try to explain it to them, they don't understand it. Because they only judge midfielders on goals and assists. So they go off scratching their heads thinking we're all weirdos for rating a player who is doing his job bloody well.

Offline Supernatural

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1123 on: January 14, 2011, 08:12:11 pm »
Poulsen all the way!

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1124 on: January 14, 2011, 08:13:50 pm »
Lucas with a great response to a moron:

Quote
@LucasLeiva87 your in OUR country so speak OUR language.

Quote
@Chels_EFC what do you want to know??

 ;D

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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1125 on: January 14, 2011, 08:18:02 pm »
He did another funny reply today.  I really think he is a good lad.

He gets this tweet:
 from Ateekster

@LucasLeiva87 Lucas :) dear dear Lucas... Please SHOOT! Lol try to shoot more! You will be GREAT! Just shoot :D

He replies:
@ateekster OK

Made me smile!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1126 on: January 14, 2011, 08:19:14 pm »
He did another funny reply today.  I really think he is a good lad.

He gets this tweet:
 from Ateekster

@LucasLeiva87 Lucas :) dear dear Lucas... Please SHOOT! Lol try to shoot more! You will be GREAT! Just shoot :D

He replies:
@ateekster OK

Made me smile!
Haha I love that.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1127 on: January 14, 2011, 08:20:19 pm »
Poulsen all the way!
Oh what fun it is to run
Like an old man going grey

Online Adeemo

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1128 on: January 14, 2011, 08:35:21 pm »
He did another funny reply today.  I really think he is a good lad.

He gets this tweet:
 from Ateekster

@LucasLeiva87 Lucas :) dear dear Lucas... Please SHOOT! Lol try to shoot more! You will be GREAT! Just shoot :D

He replies:
@ateekster OK

Made me smile!


A Lucas 25 yarder on Sunday would do nicely.
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Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1129 on: January 14, 2011, 08:35:45 pm »
Blimmin heck, that's Lucas' real Twitter? (http://twitter.com/lucasleiva87)

17 Tweets in the last 3 hours! Seems he spends a lot of time online. He must be posting under several aliases in this thread - would explain some people's bad English too. ;D

(Note: That's a joke. You don't have to attack it.)

Think I've said all I've wanted to say in this thread now.

AnnieRoadFaithful - Talks sense and makes reasonable, coherent arguments which are factually accurate.
leivapool - A Lucas lover who can actually accept other people's opinions. Well done.
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The 5th Benitle - Craziest guy I've ever seen on an internet forum, and I've seen some. Freud would have a field day. ;D

I don't mean to be offensive, I really don't - Just saying it how I see it. ;D

Offline deadlybuzz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1130 on: January 14, 2011, 08:38:08 pm »
Who are they then? His brilliant partner Meireles? Torres? Gerrard? Kuyt?

I'm not trying to slag them all off, but this whole thing of Lucas being immune from criticism, and the over the top adoration...it's ungrounded.

Yes actually who you've named. They've all had a part in not playing well, probably due to tactics from the previous regime but they still haven't looked remotely at the level we know they should be at. Meireles hasn't been himself for the past few games and has chickened out of tackles, Torres has missed chances he should have put in the back of the net, Kuyt has not been good enough this season and Gerrard is awful in CM regardless of who's playing beside him. Add Carra who by-passes the option to pass to Lucas in open space with his hoofs. The team in general hasn't been playing well.

As 5th Benitle said nobody's creaming themselves going on about how he's worth ££££ and would beat Fabregas into the Barcelona team or would automatically step into Alonso's place in the Real Madrid squad. I just don't understand how the message gets somehow lost in translation when people who don't favour the lad for whatever reason bash others who do like him by going on about how much money he should be worth in their eyes and because he's Brazilian he should be fucking Kaka. We're not the ones word-vomiting fabricated bollocks about him.

I just like Lucas as a player and enjoy watching his football, I praise him and I mark his mistakes. He makes them, he's no angelic criticism-free person. We're all saying he needs to improve in attack and contribute to assists and goals more. But he has upped his game big time when Alonso left and has continued to do so, especially when he's the most senior player in CM/DM playing alongside Meireles, Poulsen or Spearing and that he's had to practically mind the midfield by himself when Gerrard goes roaming. I still remember him 3 years ago being the rough tackler and usually conceded free-kicks all over the pitch. He has grown as a player and he deserves praise in how much improvement he has made since then.


That instantly dispels, along with his lack of a World Cup call-up, the myth that he's this integral player for them.

He clearly isn't. Nor is he for us.

He could be for both one day, but it's not happening right now.

Eh, he clearly is if he's appearing in every game possible for us right now.
Ahh, pressing refresh and waiting for news... just like the bad old days.

Liverpool porn, this.

anyone who's negative can fuck off

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1131 on: January 14, 2011, 08:43:08 pm »
Quote
Eh, he clearly is if he's appearing in every game possible for us right now.

But that doesn't mean that he will be an integral player going forward.

Sure he's a consistent player, at his standards, for us but we are currently 13th in the Premiership and four points off the drop zone and five off the bottom.

If we want to move forward we need improvements all over the pitch and defensive midfield is position included in that.
"It's there to remind our lads who they're playing for, and to remind the opposition who they're playing against."

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1132 on: January 14, 2011, 08:43:36 pm »
AnnieRoadFaithful - Talks sense and makes reasonable, coherent arguments which are factually accurate.

Cheers bud.
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Offline simesy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1133 on: January 14, 2011, 08:50:32 pm »
Who are they then? His brilliant partner Meireles? Torres? Gerrard? Kuyt?

I'm not trying to slag them all off, but this whole thing of Lucas being immune from criticism, and the over the top adoration...it's ungrounded.
Watch the last match when gerrard partnered him in the centre.Everytime an attack broke down,through stevie or anyone else for that matter,lucas was the one doing all the work while stevie jogged back 90% of the time.
When you're in the penalty area & dont know what to do with the ball, stick it in the net & we'll discuss the options later"  Bob Paisley

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1134 on: January 14, 2011, 08:58:54 pm »
Watch the last match when gerrard partnered him in the centre.Everytime an attack broke down,through stevie or anyone else for that matter,lucas was the one doing all the work while stevie jogged back 90% of the time.
Absolutely correct.
Sadly though, we'll now be tarred as Stevie haters by the zombies.

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1135 on: January 14, 2011, 09:17:34 pm »
Gerrard should be played behind Torres, as before, with Lucas and Meireles sitting deeper occupying the Mascherano and Alonso roles...

________Lucas___Meireles________

Kuyt________Gerrard_________Maxi

____________Torres______________


I think that suits all the strengths of the midfield trio and reunites Torres and Gerrard, who seem to have lost their understanding this season on the main part.

We definitely need to improve the wings though. Pace and flair are needed.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1136 on: January 14, 2011, 09:25:39 pm »
Gerrard should be played behind Torres, as before, with Lucas and Meireles sitting deeper occupying the Mascherano and Alonso roles...

________Lucas___Meireles________

Kuyt________Gerrard_________Maxi

____________Torres______________


I think that suits all the strengths of the midfield trio and reunites Torres and Gerrard, who seem to have lost their understanding this season on the main part.

We definitely need to improve the wings though. Pace and flair are needed.
I feel a bit bad now after you bore the brunt of my frustration at the other fellers.

Agree with every word of that post mate.

Offline simesy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1137 on: January 14, 2011, 09:27:39 pm »
Gerrard should be played behind Torres, as before, with Lucas and Meireles sitting deeper occupying the Mascherano and Alonso roles...

________Lucas___Meireles________

Kuyt________Gerrard_________Maxi

____________Torres______________


I think that suits all the strengths of the midfield trio and reunites Torres and Gerrard, who seem to have lost their understanding this season on the main part.

We definitely need to improve the wings though. Pace and flair are needed.
would agree with that i'd persist with maxi cause he's played quite well,not sure on dirk though we could give glen a go in rm if that doesn't work we defo need a top rw.Stevies position behind nando would be his best position but lucas and raul would HAVE to perform otherwise stevie just drifts deeper and nando definately needs someone behind him.
When you're in the penalty area & dont know what to do with the ball, stick it in the net & we'll discuss the options later"  Bob Paisley

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1138 on: January 14, 2011, 09:27:46 pm »
I feel a bit bad now after you bore the brunt of my frustration at the other fellers.

Agree with every word of that post mate.

No worries bud.

I just wish we would setup like that. It would surely bring out the best in all the players in the midfield.

Lucas and Meireles could form a partnership akin to Mascherano and Alonso, with Gerrard pushing back forward to where he scored more goals - and also Torres get better, and more intelligent, support from the midfield.

This season has shown that 4-4-2 just doesn't suit the personnel we have - and it wouldn't being that the vast majority were signed by Benitez, who preferred the 4-2-3-1 formation.
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Offline LiamG

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1139 on: January 14, 2011, 09:29:00 pm »
Think he needs to step it up that extra gear now and show that he can dominate games in midfield on a consistent basis

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1140 on: January 14, 2011, 09:30:44 pm »
would agree with that i'd persist with maxi cause he's played quite well,not sure on dirk though we could give glen a go in rm if that doesn't work we defo need a top rw.Stevies position behind nando would be his best position but lucas and raul would HAVE to perform otherwise stevie just drifts deeper and nando definately needs someone behind him.

Kuyt has done more for the club, relatively speaking, in his time here but hasn't looked the better player of the two this season.

If Maxi were not past his peak and had signed when we were first looking at him five or so years ago, he'd be a real player for us. But he looks quite hit and miss these days. He is capable of some great stuff, but his penchant for rounding the keeper and then diving after overhitting the ball is irritating as hell.

I think we need fresh, young talent on the wings and I would love to see Hazard sign. He looks fast, tricky and powerful.

Romelu Lukaku would be an excellent foil for Torres - but who doesn't want him?

We've got Raheem Sterling though, and he looks a hot prospect.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1141 on: January 14, 2011, 09:31:06 pm »
No worries bud.

I just wish we would setup like that. It would surely bring out the best in all the players in the midfield.

Lucas and Meireles could form a partnership akin to Mascherano and Alonso, with Gerrard pushing back forward to where he scored more goals - and also Torres get better, and more intelligent, support from the midfield.

This season has shown that 4-4-2 just doesn't suit the personnel we have - and it wouldn't being that the vast majority were signed by Benitez, who preferred the 4-2-3-1 formation.
Your last sentence is absolutely bang on there. Players particularly not suited to a 442 - Johnson (unless he played as a right winger), Gerrard (unless he played on the right), Torres, Maxi (as a wide man) Dirk (as a wide man) Cole (as a wide man)

It pains me that people slate the wide men we have when it's painfully obvious that our squad is not set up for a 4-42, 4-1-4-1, basically anything that doesn't rely on two midfielders and the width coming from the fullbacks.

We can't change that in January, we might over the summer. We need to play to the players strengths from now until the end of the season or we are in trouble.

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1142 on: January 14, 2011, 09:32:38 pm »
Think he needs to step it up that extra gear now and show that he can dominate games in midfield on a consistent basis

That is definitely the next phase in his progression - if he's capable of it.

He's hitting that age range where a midfielder that wants to boss the middle of the park can really max out to his peak.

He's got a great boss and first-team coach to bring him on. I hope he can really push on and become a top midfield player for us. Would be fantastic for him on a personal level after a tough start at the club.

He'd be a real cult hero if he stamped his mark on games and, subsequently, the club.
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1143 on: January 14, 2011, 09:39:23 pm »


I am not gloating over the above, I am agreeing that he isn't bossing midfields and that we need someone who can - a la the midfielders we've lost in the past few years.


Cos he's playing with knobheads, he'd be fucking boss alongside Alonso.
Poulsen, Meireles, Gerrard, too shit, chicken,no discipline.
I'd love to see him alongside Souey.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1144 on: January 14, 2011, 09:41:22 pm »
Your last sentence is absolutely bang on there. Players particularly not suited to a 442 - Johnson (unless he played as a right winger), Gerrard (unless he played on the right), Torres, Maxi (as a wide man) Dirk (as a wide man) Cole (as a wide man)

It pains me that people slate the wide men we have when it's painfully obvious that our squad is not set up for a 4-42, 4-1-4-1, basically anything that doesn't rely on two midfielders and the width coming from the fullbacks.

We can't change that in January, we might over the summer. We need to play to the players strengths from now until the end of the season or we are in trouble.

Agreed.

The midfield is often where the game is won and lost - and ours isn't functioning well at the moment. But I think it would bring out the best in Lucas, Meireles and Gerrard if we reverted to the formation outlined above.

We desperately need reinforcements on the flanks and to backup Torres. Ngog isn't ready, and perhaps never will be, to come in and cover for Torres. Ok, so the Spaniard is having a stinking season but we know what he's capable of, whereas Ngog hasn't shown anything like that level. He's still young, but when you think back to world-class strikers at his age, they had already shown that they'd be a force to be reckoned with.

Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, Ian Rush and Fernando Torres all spring to mind for us, while a lot of other strikers for other clubs fit that that description. Ngog may be a slow burner, but I've not seen enough from him to suggest that he'll become a top striker.

In recent years we've had better all-round options upfront than we have at present, and also in most other positions, but we really lack a foil/backup for Torres. We've had a lot of decent strikers in recent years but no frontline, premier goalscorer. While we had a selection of good strikers in Baros, Bellamy, Cissé, Crouch, Fowler, Morientes etc in recent memory, we haven't had a 'Torres'. We need a balance. Having Torres supported by players of similar ability  to those above (as they were back then), along with Ngog, would provide us with more experienced and able options.

The midfield is less of a concern that the front positions and left-back, for me. If we reshape them into the formation outlined above we'd have the right formula with the ingredients we have.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 09:44:09 pm by AnnieRoadFaithful »
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Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1145 on: January 14, 2011, 09:42:49 pm »
Cos he's playing with knobheads, he'd be fucking boss alongside Alonso.
Poulsen, Meireles, Gerrard, too shit, chicken,no discipline.
I'd love to see him alongside Souey.

I think he has shoulder a fair percentage of the responsibility also.

If they were setup as I say above, then it would suit them all down to the ground as a trio.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1146 on: January 14, 2011, 09:44:34 pm »
Gerrard should be played behind Torres, as before, with Lucas and Meireles sitting deeper occupying the Mascherano and Alonso roles...

________Lucas___Meireles________

Kuyt________Gerrard_________Maxi

____________Torres______________


I think that suits all the strengths of the midfield trio and reunites Torres and Gerrard, who seem to have lost their understanding this season on the main part.

We definitely need to improve the wings though. Pace and flair are needed.


Is that you Rafa....?





 8)


Kenny will have them play completely different though which I like either.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 09:46:17 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1147 on: January 14, 2011, 09:45:34 pm »

Is that you Rafa....?


They are mostly his players, after all!
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Offline Cadno

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1148 on: January 14, 2011, 09:52:53 pm »
Annie. The problem in this country that the only time people will accept that he stamps his mark is if he scores a load of goals or does amazing sliding tackles all over the place.  The game against chelsea is far more likely the way he is going to do well for us but then people don't see those performances as being good enough unless Martin Tyler's Monkey tells them it is.   It's the shame about Lucas that the way he plays is not common in this league and if you  compare his style to someone like Busquets then people who never even watch Barca play will jump all over it saying that he is never as good as Busquets even though its thee style that is compared
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 09:55:59 pm by Cadno »
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1149 on: January 14, 2011, 09:54:38 pm »
Annie. The problem in this country that the only time people will accept that he stamps his mark is if he scores a load of goals or does amazing sliding tackles all over the place.  The game against chelsea is far more likely the way he is going to do well for us but then people don't see those performances as being good enough unless Martin Tyler's Monkey tells them it is.   It's the shame about Lucas that the way he plays is not common in this league and if you  compare his style to someone like Busquets then people who never even watch Barca play will jump application over it saying that he is never as good as Busquets even though its the style that is compared
Good summary of any Lucas thread on here over the last few years, that.

Ever wonder, in a 'Sliding Doors' way what would have happened if Phil Neville hadn't handled on the line and Lucas had scored against Everton when he replaced Stevie?

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1150 on: January 14, 2011, 09:57:52 pm »
Good summary of any Lucas thread on here over the last few years, that.

Ever wonder, in a 'Sliding Doors' way what would have happened if Phil Neville hadn't handled on the line and Lucas had scored against Everton when he replaced Stevie?

That's cheating mate  :P
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1151 on: January 14, 2011, 10:08:57 pm »
That's cheating mate  :P
Seriously, though? He could have been an instant cult hero.

Months later he was booed.

I wonder about these sorts of things a lot.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1152 on: January 14, 2011, 10:12:57 pm »

Ever wonder, in a 'Sliding Doors' way what would have happened if Phil Neville hadn't handled on the line and Lucas had scored against Everton when he replaced Stevie?

In all seriousnous though buddy, I reckon if you give Lucas the ideal partner/platform he'll shine like the northern star.
His partner? Ever Banega, pay Valencia what they want, and I mean City money. Brazil's holding midfielder needs a PROPER player playing just off him. He's got better spatial awareness than Mash, so wouldn't need Mashs' pace, or ability to try and 'time' a sliding tackle.
Lucas is a gem, we need to build around him, like we should have built a proper team around our number eight.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline Garry_LFC

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1153 on: January 14, 2011, 10:16:42 pm »
I think he's solid without being spectacular. Okay he hasn't got the skill and vision of Alonso nor the pace an ferocity of Mascherano. But he's a good player to have, he get's stuck in and gives 100% and that's all we can ask for.

Offline steve10

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1154 on: January 14, 2011, 10:21:19 pm »
Ask yourself the question- would he get into the first team at UTd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or City and the answer is no. If we are aiming to be in that bracket why chance have we got with players like him of achieving that goal. In the game against Everton I would rather have spearing than him.

Offline 007.lankyguy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1155 on: January 14, 2011, 10:21:28 pm »
I honestly think that in the right system, in the right position with a good team around him, that Lucas can develop into a very good player. This season I've seen flashes of the player that I really want to see him become. The game against Chelsea is the obvious one; he was brilliant that day and completely dominated their midfield. I really think that he can become a very good player.
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Offline 007.lankyguy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1156 on: January 14, 2011, 10:22:56 pm »
Ask yourself the question- would he get into the first team at UTd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or City and the answer is no. If we are aiming to be in that bracket why chance have we got with players like him of achieving that goal. In the game against Everton I would rather have spearing than him.
Why? I'm not saying that Spearing is bad but Lucas has been our best player so far this season in my opinion and Spearing is a kid.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1157 on: January 14, 2011, 10:24:57 pm »
Ask yourself the question- would he get into the first team at UTd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or City and the answer is no. If we are aiming to be in that bracket why chance have we got with players like him of achieving that goal. In the game against Everton I would rather have spearing than him.
And we go back to square one. Miserable, miserable post.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1158 on: January 14, 2011, 10:28:44 pm »
Why? I'm not saying that Spearing is bad but Lucas has been our best player so far this season in my opinion and Spearing is a kid.

Note that some people are also saying that Lucas is a kid and needs to be given another few years to reach his potential... (despite being 24)

Offline steve10

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1159 on: January 14, 2011, 10:31:02 pm »
I have no axe to grind with players like Lucas and Kuyt. Like in any business it is the manager who decides what is good for the team. At the end of the day as supporters we should back our players. However having watched Liverpool for a few decades it is clear that the above mentioned players along with the likes of Poulsen, Konseky, Jovanic etc are not Liverpool quality players and we are not going to progress or win anything with them in the first team or even the squad.