Author Topic: Jonjo - if the cap fits, wear it (Read 16785 times)

Hank Scorpio · « **Reply #40 on:** October 16, 2012, 12:21:24 pm »

Quote from: L6 Red on October 16, 2012, 11:15:55 am

I never said Shelvey is the next Gerrard. If Rodgers gets his way, there won't be a need for one anyway.

For all his talent and achievements in a Liverpool shirt, the Gerrard effect has not been good for the club overall. This is not Gerrard's fault and in no way am I trying to lay blame at his feet. There have been a number of factors which have paved the way for this situation to develop. But the fact of the matter is that great teams are not built around the one player that does it all. You need these top class players but you also need other vital components which make up a consistent, trophy winning side. We cannot expect all that to be embodied in one player.

tax_man · « **Reply #41 on:** October 16, 2012, 12:31:48 pm »

Good read as usual L6. I like that I had to consult an online dictionary by word 3, I get to read about football and feel like it's productive at the same time

Sangria · « **Reply #42 on:** October 16, 2012, 02:08:38 pm »

Quote from: Hank Scorpio on October 16, 2012, 12:21:24 pm

For all his talent and achievements in a Liverpool shirt, the Gerrard effect has not been good for the club overall. This is not Gerrard's fault and in no way am I trying to lay blame at his feet. There have been a number of factors which have paved the way for this situation to develop. But the fact of the matter is that great teams are not built around the one player that does it all. You need these top class players but you also need other vital components which make up a consistent, trophy winning side. We cannot expect all that to be embodied in one player.

School teams are based around star players who do it all all over the pitch. That's what the English mentality is based on. At higher levels, that's just not possible, as a well organised team will pull an individualised XI apart. You need players to concentrate on their part of the tactical setup, and trust the others to do their part as well.

GrkStav · « **Reply #43 on:** October 16, 2012, 04:08:18 pm »

Quote from: pumblechookian on October 15, 2012, 05:26:25 pm

It's a matter of opinion, mate. I actually think he'd be good in that role, for reasons which I tried to explain.

And in answer to your questions - a) yes, and b)the Mascherano comparison was a reference to his versatility, rather than me saying "Jonjo is like Mascherano".

How is it a matter of opinion, though? If I said that Sterling would be a great NBA center or power-forward, "he's got the body-type, height, and muscle for it", it wouldn't be just an opinion, but a demonstrably false statement of fact. Likewise, to argue that Jonjo Shelvey is in any way 'suited' for the defensive duties of the DM or withdrawn midfielder is, at the very most, a big, big stretch.

As for Jonjo's versatility, I agree, only it doesn't involve 'defensive' positions, imho.

Malaysian Kopite · « **Reply #44 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:03:15 pm »

About that lash out at Ferguson, did Ferguson provoke him first?

OOS · « **Reply #45 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:06:16 pm »

Good read, thanks

I am looking forward to seeing Jonjo develop as player, and hopefully he will kick on from this as he just got his first international cap, and the trust that Rodgers has put in him so far this season being a regular starter in the team.

UntouchableLuis · « **Reply #46 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:06:44 pm »

Can't see both him and Henderson making it here for the long term - will be either or IMO. Depends who takes their chances more but Shelvey looking more in favour under Rodgers so far.

Mrs Slocombes Pussy · « **Reply #47 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:24:42 pm »

Quote from: rossipersempre on October 16, 2012, 11:35:04 am

Went seriously up in my estimation when he gave it back to the Govan Tramp as he left the pitch.

He could be thought of as the next Igor Biscan for all I care, but for that Masch-like demonstration of controlled temper and cajones, he'll always get my support.

That's it for me right there. Has great ability on the ball and really good range in his passing but showing the bottle (some would say immaturity), to have a pop at you know who after he contributed to getting him sent off with his touchline theatrics makes him a definite star of the future. If he progresses no more, (which he will) he's a very good footballer with his heart and allegiances in totally the right place.

Draex · « **Reply #48 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:28:05 pm »

Quote from: UntouchableLuis on October 16, 2012, 05:06:44 pm

Can't see both him and Henderson making it here for the long term - will be either or IMO. Depends who takes their chances more but Shelvey looking more in favour under Rodgers so far.

Completly disagree. Henderson is 22, it's not like he is an old man. Gerrard is winding down - we will need 4-5 top class midfielders once we get into the CL, Henderson and Shelvey aren't mutually exclusive - when they play together they actually compliment eachother. All Henderson really needs to learn is how to recieve the pass and turn in 1 movement and move forward - once he has that he'll add the extra dimension he currently lacks and you'll see a lot fewer of the "safety" balls backwards or out to the wings.

Lucas/Allen/Shelvey/Henderson - you'd want Sahin but that's only a possibility. So we have 4 out of our 6 for the next 5 years.

Funky_Gibbons · « **Reply #49 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:48:15 pm »

Quote from: UntouchableLuis on October 16, 2012, 05:06:44 pm

Can't see both him and Henderson making it here for the long term - will be either or IMO. Depends who takes their chances more but Shelvey looking more in favour under Rodgers so far.

The only way I can see either of Henderson or Shelvey leaving is if Rodger's needs to raise money to sign other players.

However, this would be extremely short sited of the owners given that if we can keep our current squad, our midfield is pretty much sorted for the next four or five years.

Mumm-Ra · « **Reply #50 on:** October 16, 2012, 05:58:54 pm »

Shouldn't it be "once-ebullient" - if they are currently ebullient they wouldn't be creaking.

Also:

Quote from: L6 Red on October 14, 2012, 10:12:37 pm

the crossfire's currently sighted on Jonjo Shelvey

it's "crosshairs" - Jonjo is "in the crosshairs"

Thog · « **Reply #51 on:** October 16, 2012, 07:32:30 pm »

Quote from: Fuzion6 on October 15, 2012, 11:19:04 pm

I remember kenny bought jonjo on all the time during his caretaker period in charge and would say he wasn't sure what his best position was but he had so much talent. I think he will end up being best as a riquelme type no10...for me he has that languid classy style of play...though riquelme would never go into sliding challenges the way jonjo does!

I think for now he's best as a deep lying midfielder where he can get on the ball a lot - when he gets older i reckon he will develop into an excellent attacking midfielder. Similar to gerrard really. The only problem with him in central midfield, i don't think he has that midfield presence, and it's why gerrard is being utilised deeper in the absence of lucas rather than sahin, who suffers from a similar problem - as we found out against arsenal and stoke, just isn't up for a graft and fight but his lack of mobility means playing no.10 doesn't suit him at all. He should be the link between allen and gerrard, running into the box late ala norwich and west brom.

guest · « **Reply #52 on:** October 16, 2012, 10:48:17 pm »

Quote from: Mumm-Ra on October 16, 2012, 05:58:54 pm

Shouldn't it be "once-ebullient" - if they are currently ebullient they wouldn't be creaking.

No. You can still be energised and creak. It just shows there's a regression in the ebullience. I also used that word because of the pun, as in, he's not human; he's a robot, his limbs are creaking, striking oil - oil the limbs.

Quote

it's "crosshairs" - Jonjo is "in the crosshairs"

No, because the accusations of being the next Gerrard have already been fired - people are throwing out names in a scattergun approach and he's been caught from all angles.

Anything else, Sir?

The 5th Benitle · « **Reply #53 on:** October 16, 2012, 10:52:38 pm »

Quote from: L6 Red on October 16, 2012, 10:48:17 pm

Anything else, Sir?

okabandai · « **Reply #54 on:** October 17, 2012, 01:45:05 am »

I just love his celebration.

idontknow · « **Reply #55 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:23:45 am »

Great article, L6, and I think Jonjo's going to be a cracking player for us, in a superb young midfield unit, himself, Lucas, Allen, Henderson. If Sahin does not want to stay and be a part of that, so be it, but the season's still young, and young men can change their minds.

I'm sure Jonjo will start scoring goals for us, and he does not necessarily need to score that many, just provide the threat that opens up the field a little for other players.

I didn't know his grandmother was a Scot, but given the way the national team is at the moment, unless Raheem, Suso, Wisdom, Henderson and a goalkeeper were going to declare allegiance, I can understand his decision.

As for the loan thing, it is a very awkward point that he seems none the worse from going on loan whereas nearly every other player since - I can't remember - has pretty much disappeared, as you say. Jonjo just seems to benefit from playing football, but it does seem a bit strange that other players wouldn't.

Very good article, and I'm keeping my hair crossed and my toes ebullient that he turns out as good as we believe he can be.

Dentron · « **Reply #56 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:42:11 am »

Quote from: L6 Red on October 16, 2012, 10:48:17 pm

No. You can still be energised and creak. It just shows there's a regression in the ebullience. I also used that word because of the pun, as in, he's not human; he's a robot, his limbs are creaking, striking oil - oil the limbs.

No, because the accusations of being the next Gerrard have already been fired - people are throwing out names in a scattergun approach and he's been caught from all angles.

Anything else, Sir?

I think you may have been a bit too clever for your own good with your ebullience pun.

And he's right, "crossfire" reads as a colloquialism turned malapropism in that context.

KirkVanHouten · « **Reply #57 on:** October 17, 2012, 07:19:20 am »

Quote from: PanchDeBurca on October 15, 2012, 02:48:57 pm

I think Allen is probably going to be more important to the team in the next 5-7 years than Hendo and Shelvey - although i think both are potentially very good players

Shelvey is really raw at the moment for me - but he is very young so not expecting anything else.

I do think Shelvey is being a little over hyped to be honest

also i don't want another Gerrard or Gerrard type player - for me the era of the swashbuckling i can do everything type midfielder is over - discipline and control are going to be the key for the Rodgers (and beyond) era (hopefully at least)

Edit: Another well written piece L6

This is actually an absurd thing to say, you don't want another Steven Gerrard? Do you seriously believe that Gerrard in his prime couldn't play in this system?

rossipersempre · « **Reply #58 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:28:20 am »

Noticed the couple comments above on Henderson.

People do realise Rodgers was trying to part-ex him at the end of August don't they?

Meanwhile Brentdan clearly has a thing for Jonjo judging by a certain tv programme.

gollne · « **Reply #59 on:** October 17, 2012, 01:42:13 pm »

Love this from him:

Jonjo Shelvey

‏@shelveyJ“@wes_foderingham: Voldemort on for England” league 2s alright still

https://twitter.com/shelveyJ/status/258546119016058882

Mumm-Ra · « **Reply #60 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:51:09 pm »

Quote from: L6 Red on October 16, 2012, 10:48:17 pm

No. You can still be energised and creak. It just shows there's a regression in the ebullience. I also used that word because of the pun, as in, he's not human; he's a robot, his limbs are creaking, striking oil - oil the limbs.

No, because the accusations of being the next Gerrard have already been fired - people are throwing out names in a scattergun approach and he's been caught from all angles.

Anything else, Sir?

1) OK, still think it's confusing to say something is at once ebullient and creaking

2) "the crossfire's currently sighted on Jonjo Shelvey" - I really think you meant crosshairs. Crossfire wouldn't be sighted on him - he would be "caught in the crossfire" between two or more opposing sides who were aiming at each other, which still doesn't really make sense.

Just advice, take it or leave it, but if you're trying to be a professional writer I'd just keep it simple and to the point.

B0151? · « **Reply #61 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:15:50 pm »

jonjo is more lex luther than voldy imo

paddysour · « **Reply #62 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:58:40 pm »

Quote from: gollne on October 17, 2012, 01:42:13 pm

Love this from him:

Jonjo Shelvey

‏@shelveyJ“@wes_foderingham: Voldemort on for England” league 2s alright still

https://twitter.com/shelveyJ/status/258546119016058882

That lads banter is shocking lol.

GBF · « **Reply #63 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:26:57 pm »

I hope he doesnt get into trouble with FA with his match related twit 2 hours before the game

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19975281

PhilV · « **Reply #64 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:30:40 pm »

Quote from: GBF on October 17, 2012, 04:26:57 pm

I hope he doesnt get into trouble with FA with his match related twit 2 hours before the game

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19975281

Says in that linked article that the new Code Of Conduct only comes into effect in November

GBF · « **Reply #65 on:** October 17, 2012, 04:33:56 pm »

Quote from: PhilV on October 17, 2012, 04:30:40 pm

Says in that linked article that the new Code Of Conduct only comes into effect in November

doh! :/

guest · « **Reply #66 on:** October 17, 2012, 11:12:20 pm »

Quote from: Mumm-Ra on October 17, 2012, 02:51:09 pm

1) OK, still think it's confusing to say something is at once ebullient and creaking

2) "the crossfire's currently sighted on Jonjo Shelvey" - I really think you meant crosshairs. Crossfire wouldn't be sighted on him - he would be "caught in the crossfire" between two or more opposing sides who were aiming at each other, which still doesn't really make sense.

Just advice, take it or leave it, but if you're trying to be a professional writer I'd just keep it simple and to the point.

Thanks for the advice.

ryan125 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 17, 2012, 11:20:00 pm »

Quote from: PanchDeBurca on October 15, 2012, 02:48:57 pm

I think Allen is probably going to be more important to the team in the next 5-7 years than Hendo and Shelvey - although i think both are potentially very good players

Shelvey is really raw at the moment for me - but he is very young so not expecting anything else.

I do think Shelvey is being a little over hyped to be honest

also i don't want another Gerrard or Gerrard type player - for me the era of the swashbuckling i can do everything type midfielder is over - discipline and control are going to be the key for the Rodgers (and beyond) era (hopefully at least)

Edit: Another well written piece L6

Agree with all this. I like Shelvey more now than I did as I wasn't the biggest fan last year to be honest. I feel much more confident in him now that it seems Rodgers thinks he can get more out of him.

fowlermagic · « **Reply #68 on:** October 18, 2012, 12:18:18 am »

I like the lad a lot as unlike some others we have he does not get a nose bleed when he ventures towards the box. Balance is the kep especially with a side who likes to play a lot of the ball outside thefinal third so any player like Shelvey Suso and co who look capable of finishing moves are the icing on the cake I hope.

Eeyore · « **Reply #69 on:** October 18, 2012, 12:43:31 am »

Really good piece that Kris especially the bit about Rodgers believing in a system over a star. Ged's Liverpool were a largely functional side which desperately needed a talismanic creative genius like Gerrard. Rodgers Liverpool shares the burden of creativity throughout put the team.

Shelvey can be a cog in a well oiled machine and hopefully won't have to try and be the machine the way Gerrard had to be at times.

B0151? · « **Reply #70 on:** October 18, 2012, 12:50:32 am »

really excited by shelvey. i know someone has stated the example of gerrard but you have to consider why gerrard plays like he does. he was the catalyst for most of his liverpool career, the man we needed to perform the exceptional - so he did, but you can't do the exceptional without trying the exceptional. with shelvey, it's different, he's only 20, he really is a ball of dough, we can make out of him what we want to really. i mean remember 2 seasons ago (can't believe it's that long), kenny trying him as a 'roberto carlos' wingback? compare his pre-season games to his performance against man city, different style. i do believe he's a gamechanger though. going to pop up with important goals this lad, so much confidence.

Kovai Red · « **Reply #71 on:** October 18, 2012, 08:01:20 am »

I can see him becoming a key player in our team in the next 2 to 3 years. Him, Suso, Sterling and Suarez will form the most potent attacking unit in the premier league

fowlermagic · « **Reply #72 on:** October 18, 2012, 08:28:41 am »

Is he already one of the larger cogs when SG does not play as who else will get a strike on goal or force the issue esp from a CM of Allen Lucas and himself? Sahin may be long gone next season and even now you see the lad trying to taise the game tempo when required. Lot to expect from a 20 year old and I would hope Lucas esp will step up in regards to his late runs into the box in the manner he use to do as he could be the one to share the goal load of CM with Shelvey.

Sangria · « **Reply #73 on:** October 18, 2012, 09:27:14 am »

Quote from: fowlermagic on October 18, 2012, 08:28:41 am

Is he already one of the larger cogs when SG does not play as who else will get a strike on goal or force the issue esp from a CM of Allen Lucas and himself? Sahin may be long gone next season and even now you see the lad trying to taise the game tempo when required. Lot to expect from a 20 year old and I would hope Lucas esp will step up in regards to his late runs into the box in the manner he use to do as he could be the one to share the goal load of CM with Shelvey.

Lucas used to have Mascherano covering for him. Nowadays he has to cover for everyone else.

fowlermagic · « **Reply #74 on:** October 18, 2012, 10:26:37 am »

Not sure how the CM cog works ideally but woud love to see either 2 of the 3 CMs capable of thrusting forward when required. One at a time or even 2 if we are all over a side. Right now based on availability / experience etc those two are SG and Sahin perhaps with Allen sitting and when we need t defend SG falls back more I guess (all debatable but one of those 2 if not both should be able to defend when called upon). Anyhow I think the current CM preference may be Lucas Allen and SG when all fit and I dont see a true balance in those 3 unless one of the holding 2 gets forward more often to support SG when we are banging down teams doors. Lucas looks the most likely there but on the downside his barn door has not been hit for a while.