Author Topic: It's just a battle for the order of the first 4 spots now between 5 teams...  (Read 554889 times)

Offline goalspaytherent

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2600 on: February 24, 2014, 10:02:19 am »
There is such a long way to go .....we have some really tricky away games coming up that could seriously derail our current aspirations .....I hate saying it over and over but it really is one game at a time. The others have some tough games as well , and by that I mean spurs , Man U and everton , so should we drop points one weekend then it is quite feasible that it will be a case of " as you were " the weekend after. Enjoying being up there , just hope we can keep the momentum going ....and Suarez is due a goal in the next week or two !

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2601 on: February 24, 2014, 10:02:34 am »
Ive got chelsea imo our biggest threat to 6 4 1 from the last 11 games,  that leaves us needing 26 points to win it!   8  2 1  will do it, got city 2 points behind  chelsea,  i was being positive with chelsea  results,  lets call it  9 1 1 (a tall order)  and its ours....

I still think Man City will be the biggest threat. They have Aguero returning, Nasri and Fernandinho have returned, probably will have the confidence of winning the Carling Cup and most likely no Champions League to worry about.

Offline Hayer

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2602 on: February 24, 2014, 10:03:57 am »
I'll never rule out United, nobody should. It's been fantastic laughing at them and their manager since August, but this season isn't over. I'll celebrate for real when they're mathematically out of the race for fourth as well as out of the Champions League.

Give yourself a break. They're gone.

It's reached a point where i'm hoping they win enough to make sure Moyes stays next season. I'm really hoping they can get 5th with a points total in the mid 60s. That should not panic Ferguson and his cronies too much, you would hope.

Offline incredibleL4ever

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2603 on: February 24, 2014, 10:09:01 am »
I still think Man City will be the biggest threat. They have Aguero returning, Nasri and Fernandinho have returned, probably will have the confidence of winning the Carling Cup and most likely no Champions League to worry about.

City have to play 4 games away against top 7 opposition.  Arsenal have to play 3 similar away games and 1 at home.  Chelsea only have 1 away (us) and 2 at home.  We have 3 at home and 1 away.  As these are the games teams are most likely to lose points, I think its advantage Chelsea and we should end up 2nd or 3rd.
p.s. Chelsea will also be involved in the Champions League which might just tilt the balance in our favour.

Offline Miro

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2604 on: February 24, 2014, 10:11:40 am »
"In game" tactics could change though, depending on targets. He might be less inclined to really go for the throat if drawing late on against United and Spurs if they were close to us, but if 4th is nailed on, opening up and really trying to chase the top 3 might be a risk worth taking.

Spot on.

Offline youll never walk alone it

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2605 on: February 24, 2014, 10:12:13 am »
First  killer heals? yes likely  to win it  but? wonder how important that first cup is to them?  sunderland do have a  genuine chance i feel  and if they did lose it and go out to barcelona it really cranks up the perssure,  just think chelsea  have better  run in AND  a real winning mentallity.
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Offline I-was-watching-it-on-Sky

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2606 on: February 24, 2014, 10:13:32 am »
Very naive.

There's also a lot of positive post saying 4th's in the bag...is it really..cos there's still 33 points to play for.

Having a little "fear" isn't always a bad thing (especially for our defence at the mo). It makes you make better decisions, tells you when something is wrong and not always be brave and have a little self control, which probably means we'd be a bit further up the table, as we'd have at least 2 more points...Kolo certainly wouldn't have tried to play that ball v West Brom and a few Mignolet mistakes for goals would have been wiped out too.
Fear can also make you play better and give you more desire to win. That's one of the reasons why we switch on and prepare for the next game immediately after the last game.

Very naive...

Thank you for the lesson in game play pschycology very interesting.

However, the fans posting their 'fear' isn't the same thing as the players being mentally atuned to the in-game situations.

I fail to see how you make the connection between fans posting their 'fear' on here and us being two points further up the table or Mignolet making less mistakes.

You're making thee assumption that "a little fear" is always a good thing...it also brings tension and indecision...which is not good in game play situations.

Have a look-see of some of the threads which deal with calculations of 'form'...there are some clever people on them who can work out the realistic probabilities of the various situations.

One of which is whether United will overhaul us...you don't need to be a boffin to answer that one...they won't and no amount of pretend fear will change that.

It's been shown that over the last 1/3rd of the season the PPG form of sides doesn't change very much [usual range is up to +0.1 PPG].

United are currently 45pts from 27 games = 1.67 PPG. If they improve by the 10% they'd have 1.83 PPG over their last 11 games, they'd get 20pts and finish with a total of 65pts.

Liverpool are currently 56pts from 27 games = 2.07 PPG. If we reduce by the 10% we'd have 1.87 PPG over our last 11 games, we'd get 20pts and finish on 76pts.

Now...tell me how fans projecting their pessimistic attitude without any form of analysis is benefitting anyone...?

Those who are more positive of mind aren't the ones ignoring the 'realities'...they're the ones paying attention to the probabilities.

When considering the way things may turn out it's only half of the assessment if you're projecting the pessimistic view...not a call to realism.
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Offline Paul JH

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2607 on: February 24, 2014, 10:13:57 am »
Wouldn't be too cocky about beating Southampton, they have only lost one of their last 7 matches.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2608 on: February 24, 2014, 10:15:38 am »
Let's just keep winning.
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Offline LFCDynamic

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2609 on: February 24, 2014, 10:20:09 am »
Southampton are a good team and Liverpool's away form is patchy.
Manu will always raise their game for us.

Now is not the time to be over confident or arrogant and I'm sure Brendan wont approach the game in such a manner.

Why is every single post of yours so pessimistic?!
I've read about 300 of yours posts since I've been on here and all of them are soo pessimistic. Never a positive prediction or view without a drawback that has to be given significant attention to. Regardless of whether its due or undue attention. We're sitting at 4th, closer to 1st than 5th going into march, and you're still putting optimists off?

If you don't want to dream, don't. Stop stopping others.
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2610 on: February 24, 2014, 10:20:36 am »
Wouldn't be too cocky about beating Southampton, they have only lost one of their last 7 matches.

And they really should have beaten Arsenal.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2611 on: February 24, 2014, 10:21:37 am »
Why is every single post of yours so pessimistic?!
I've read about 300 of yours posts since I've been on here and all of them are soo pessimistic. Never a positive prediction or view without a drawback that has to be given significant attention to. Regardless of whether its due or undue attention. We're sitting at 4th, closer to 1st than 5th going into march, and you're still putting optimists off?

If you don't want to dream, don't. Stop stopping others.

Don't mistake caution for pessimism.

Offline youll never walk alone it

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2612 on: February 24, 2014, 10:33:48 am »
To be honest and it may have just been me but even during our hay day  i was always pessimistic  before games, apart from 1 game i thought there was only 1 winner an that was going to be us, we got beat by wimbledon in the cup final!   Lets make no mistake here  3 points v southampton  would be potentially huge for us...
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when shanks was asked  how he relaxed,  he said  he looks at the league table and checks where everton are...

Offline LFCDynamic

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2613 on: February 24, 2014, 10:33:50 am »
Don't mistake caution for pessimism.

Cautious in what sense? The fans being cautious isn't going to change the result in any way. On the other hand being overly cautious doesn't let you feel the sorrows of a loss or the joys of a win. It acts as an emotion regulator which only suppresses your love for the sport and the club.

To support a team in success is easy. But, to support a team even during bad times shows real character.

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2614 on: February 24, 2014, 10:36:12 am »
Bet Howard Webb will ref the game against Man United, and bet he'll fuck us over, again.

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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2615 on: February 24, 2014, 10:36:15 am »
Bit odd to change the thread title, some really difficult games coming up now - still a while before we can start popping open the champagne with regard to Champions League qualification.
What about this current thread title says we're guaranteed 4th? I take it maths isn't your strong point...

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2616 on: February 24, 2014, 10:38:54 am »
Are the Mancs capable of that? 

without a shadow of a doubt, yes they are..
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline owens_2k

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2617 on: February 24, 2014, 10:40:54 am »
Don't mistake caution for pessimism.
Exactly. People on here are quick to moan at those of us who don't conform with the posters who say "We are gonna smash these 5-0" with no basis. Remember players could play a worldy under Benitez but he would say "why didnt you use your left foot for that pass in the 56th minute".

We should strive for perfection!

Offline Macedonian Red Reborn

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2618 on: February 24, 2014, 10:44:04 am »

I can understand the manager being cautious and cold headed. I can also understand players being cautious and cold headed. I will never understand football supporters being cautious and cold headed. What is the point of that?
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Offline Cusamano

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2619 on: February 24, 2014, 10:48:10 am »
stupid question but what if the manc city or Chelsea win the CL?

Do we still keep 4 CL places?
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2620 on: February 24, 2014, 10:50:28 am »
I can understand the manager being cautious and cold headed. I can also understand players being cautious and cold headed. I will never understand football supporters being cautious and cold headed. What is the point of that?


Because there have been so many false dawns. 20 plus years, how many 'genuine' league challenges? 3? I would have thought caution was understandable.

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2621 on: February 24, 2014, 10:51:17 am »
stupid question but what if the manc city or Chelsea win the CL?

Do we still keep 4 CL places?

Yes.

The only way that 4th doesn't get at least a CL qualifier is if United win the CL and finish outside the Top 4.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2622 on: February 24, 2014, 10:51:29 am »
I'll never rule out United, nobody should. It's been fantastic laughing at them and their manager since August, but this season isn't over. I'll celebrate for real when they're mathematically out of the race for fourth as well as out of the Champions League.
For United to catch us they have to gain 12 points on us in 11 games (assuming they don't catch goal difference). That is the reality of the situation.

That means they have to win four when we lose, and do no worse than us in the remaining 7.

That is a very, very tall order even if they do beat us at Old Trafford, which is far from a given. They have the following fixtures which appear difficult: WBA a (after Olympiacos a), WHU a (3 days after Olympiacos h) City h, Newcastle, Everton, Southampton all a.

If we can win, say, 5 of our remaining 11, United have to beat us and not drop points in all bar about 2 or 3 of those. They have shown absolutely no sign of putting together that sort of run, and nor have we. I think them catching us is highly, highly unlikely.

In fact, I think they are more likely to scupper the top 4 by winning the European Cup, but with Bayern, Barca, Madrid, PSG, Dortmund, Atleti and Chelsea in there, I'm not planning to lose sleep over that eventuality.
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2623 on: February 24, 2014, 10:51:50 am »
stupid question but what if the manc city or Chelsea win the CL?

Do we still keep 4 CL places?

4th CL place is only lost when a team who finish outside the top 4 win the CL. So be very afraid until Manu are booted out.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2624 on: February 24, 2014, 10:54:07 am »
Because there have been so many false dawns. 20 plus years, how many 'genuine' league challenges? 3? I would have thought caution was understandable.
Caution's not done us any favours, so you might as well look up the table as down it.

Me, I think the best thing is not worry about where we finish. The football's so good I am happy to just enjoy watching and try not to concern myself too much with the possibilities.
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2625 on: February 24, 2014, 10:55:09 am »
4th CL place is only lost when a team who finish outside the top 4 win the CL. So be very afraid until Manu are booted out.
That is their best chance, but they are so much worse than a good 6 or 7 sides left in it, it is somewhat unlikely.
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Macedonian Red Reborn

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2626 on: February 24, 2014, 10:59:18 am »
Because there have been so many false dawns. 20 plus years, how many 'genuine' league challenges? 3? I would have thought caution was understandable.

I still don't understand the logic. Just because we haven't won the league title in the past 23 seasons, it doesn't means that we won't win it this season. What is the point of supporting a football club, if you are not expecting the best possible outcome?
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Offline northern Monkey

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2627 on: February 24, 2014, 11:00:45 am »
I don't for one second see us losing both of the next two games.  I'd say maintaining our 2ppg average is entirely doable.  Not guaranteed or a foregone conclusion but absolutely doable. 

What someone has said a few posts back is I think spot on.  Dare to dream, let yourself believe.  Feel the highs or what's the point.  Yes it means the lows kick you in the nuts, as a grown man I've been know to have actual tears over football.  I don't cry for personal setbacks but for some reason my club can do it to me. 

You know what though, my club has also brought me some of the most amazing highs.  Sitting on the pavement of an airport in Turkey not so very long ago just grinning like a loon at having seen the impossible.  I stayed at half time.  I joined in the singing when we were dead and buried.  I didn't start the singing but as soon as it started, I allowed myself to believe maybe, just maybe.

We ARE finishing no lower than 4th as far as I'm concerned.  It's simply not an option or a possibility. spurs are the only shower in with a shout and well, they are a shower.  United or Everton? Please that's not caution, it's pure pessimism and fear.  If our players had that same level of mental belief we'd be in the shit.

I don't care how many people want to try and shoot my belief down, it's bulletproof.  Top is ours.  Anymore thinks they can take it, just let them try, none of the chasing teams have what it takes.  The fight is for where in that top 4 we finish.  I don't think we have a high chance of overhauling all three teams to take the title, but I do entirely believe there is more chance of that than of us not securing our present position at the very least.

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2628 on: February 24, 2014, 11:03:51 am »
that's not caution, it's pure pessimism and fear. 

Or experience and thinking the Liverpool way....depending on your point of view
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Offline northern Monkey

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2629 on: February 24, 2014, 11:08:09 am »
It's not the Liverpool way to believe we will fail though.

That's precisely why we have so many false dawns.  Because we let ourselves believe.  For me believing we can achieve is part of supporting my club.  If the great man can say it about setting our sights high, I'm happy to be in good company doing the same. :)

Offline GG8

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2630 on: February 24, 2014, 11:10:02 am »
Given all the talk of Arsenal's crazy period of games on the horizon, I didnt realise that Liverpool actually have a very tough run of games around the corner.

Southampton (A)
United (A)
Cardiff (A)
Tottenham (H)
West Ham (A)
City (H)
Norwich (A)
Chelsea (H)

That is a tough run of games, 4 of the top 6 (albiet 3 at home), 2 visits to relegation scrapping teams and 2 visits to Southampton who we all know can turn it on when needed and West Ham who have seemingly turned a corner.

Compareed to Arsenal's over the same period:

Stoke (A)
Spurs (A)
Chelsea(A)
City (H)
Everton (A)
West Ham (H)
Hull (A)
Newcastle (H)

Now that 4 (5 if you want to include Mordor, sorry I mean Stoke) game run is daunting. Add the pressure of a least 1 more CL game and FA cup game and the fact we play a lot of the big guns away from home, and there is a definite advantage to Liverpool. Just surprised me when you look at the teams to be played that over the same 8 game period their isnt THAT much between them.


Offline Carlito Roberto

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2631 on: February 24, 2014, 11:12:00 am »
What about this current thread title says we're guaranteed 4th? I take it maths isn't your strong point...
It's not as it goes, only managed a C at GCSE level. Bet you were good at drama though eh, what with all these crazy attention seeking thread title changes. Looking forward to the next one already...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 11:13:47 am by Carlito Roberto »

Offline MichaelA

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2632 on: February 24, 2014, 11:12:43 am »
Because there have been so many false dawns.

At least you get a brief glimmer of sunshine with a false dawn. :wave

Offline kopite17

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2633 on: February 24, 2014, 11:12:54 am »
I think 4th is as good as done now, as people have said time and time again, spurs should have faded by the end of march due to their tough schedule. Before the season, I thought 4th was quite unlikely, but now it seems almost a certainty in my opinion. I know we have 2 tough games next but if we get through them with 3/4 points, we're still able to battle for the places above us.

The next 2 games are vital, with chelsea playing arsenal, if we can get through ours, i honestly think we can start to believe. But until then, im delighted if we get 4th.

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2634 on: February 24, 2014, 11:13:00 am »
If we go to St Mary's and win, I'll believe the title is ours.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2635 on: February 24, 2014, 11:30:04 am »
It's not as it goes, only managed a C at GCSE level. Bet you were good at drama though eh, what with all these crazy attention seeking thread title changes. Looking forward to the next one already...
Er, it has absolutely nothing to do with attention seeking, in fact I was asked to change it by quite a few people. What a bizarre response that is, I can only assume you're feeling silly as you din't realise that the current thread title doesn't assume 4th at all.

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2636 on: February 24, 2014, 11:31:14 am »
When we go to St Mary's and win, I'll believe the title is ours.
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Offline Hayer

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2637 on: February 24, 2014, 11:35:26 am »
Given all the talk of Arsenal's crazy period of games on the horizon, I didnt realise that Liverpool actually have a very tough run of games around the corner.

Southampton (A)
United (A)
Cardiff (A)
Tottenham (H)
West Ham (A)
City (H)
Norwich (A)
Chelsea (H)

That is a tough run of games, 4 of the top 6 (albiet 3 at home), 2 visits to relegation scrapping teams and 2 visits to Southampton who we all know can turn it on when needed and West Ham who have seemingly turned a corner.

Compareed to Arsenal's over the same period:

Stoke (A)
Spurs (A)
Chelsea(A)
City (H)
Everton (A)
West Ham (H)
Hull (A)
Newcastle (H)

Now that 4 (5 if you want to include Mordor, sorry I mean Stoke) game run is daunting. Add the pressure of a least 1 more CL game and FA cup game and the fact we play a lot of the big guns away from home, and there is a definite advantage to Liverpool. Just surprised me when you look at the teams to be played that over the same 8 game period their isnt THAT much between them.



We certainly have no gimme games but they are certainly winnabe. Cardiff away does look easier now compared to when Mackay was in charge. Soton away is of course a toughie, but i get the feeling they are running out of steam now. They have conceded 2 or more goals at home in 5 of their last 7 games. So you'll have us down for 2 goals there. Then it's up to our defence to step it up like it did against yourselves and Everton, and i think it will. Utd away is always tough. Do have a bad feeling about that one in all honesty. We're a bit like yourselves when we go there, we wilt more often than not there. Spurs at home, for me that is going to be a canter. West Ham away will be tough but it's hardly daunting - i think we'll have just about enough to win there.

Looking at your next 5 games, im stunned how bad it looks. The schedule computer sure screwed you over there. 4 out of 5 are away games, and there all tough as anything. Then your one home game is against City. If i was an Arsenal fan, i'd get a headache just staring at that fixture run!

I'd be dissapointed if we aren't 3 points by the end of this next 5 game span, and then i believe we should be able to consolidate that advantage till the end of the season.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 11:38:11 am by Hayer »

Offline Byrnee

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2638 on: February 24, 2014, 11:39:50 am »
If we go to St Mary's and win, I'll believe the title is ours.

If we do this we'll be at least third on Saturday night (as Manchester City are playing League Cup Final) and could go second if Arsenal slip up at Stoke. Which we'll know about by the time we kick off at St Marys.

COME ON REDMEN!

Oh and Chelsea have been known to slip up at Fulham before now too... Could be a brilliant weekend for us
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 11:41:50 am by Byrnee »
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Offline stevied

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2639 on: February 24, 2014, 11:45:50 am »
Big test coming up 3 away games on the bounce, if we get 7-9 points then i will start dreaming of a week on the piss in May, Southampton away tricky Utd away tricky Cardiff away easy, we have put to bed some of our hoodoo aways this season no reason why we cant continue, keep loading the bullets for the our front boys and hopefully we can continue scoring the goals
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