Author Topic: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview  (Read 7990 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview
« on: May 1, 2005, 04:00:54 pm »
Tuesday's game, as well as one of the biggest, has to be one of the most fascinating and intriguing in English football history. Both managers are overseas coaches, new to this country, having arrived on the back of domestic and European success in 2004.

   There is so much that surrounds the fixture.

   It is tradition, versus the nouveaux riches. It is a working class northern city against the wealthy heart of the southern capital. It is the quiet, unassuming genius against the arrogant, cocky, über-talented media-whore.

   (Notice how Mourinho yet again left his players to hog the limelight –– but once more doing so in such a way that it ends up generating more press for the manager than had he stayed and celebrated with his players; by removing himself from the limelight, he is drawing everyone's attention away from the players, and towards his absence. This is clearly a very clever man, but one whose vanity makes Narcissus look like a man with low self-esteem.)

   Then there is how delicately balanced the tie is, with Liverpool at home and backed by the raucous Anfield roar, but without an away goal to act as a buffer. Chelsea arrive as newly-crowned Champions (deserving, given their performances), while Liverpool are adrift in the race for 4th spot, with the farcical Uefa ruling hanging over the club, whereby it could be deemed that the Champions of Europe, if it miraculously transpired, are less "champion" than a team who concentrated solely on its league campaign, and who were only marginally less average than their neighbours (who were otherwise occupied and hamstrung by injuries). It is a highly unusual context for a game, and it appears that should the eventuality arise, the FA would rather ignore the precedent set by Spain in 2000.

   Let them. Personally speaking, I'd rather Liverpool won the Champions League and didn't get the chance to defend it, than the possible alternative of failing to win it this time around and yet entering next season by finishing 4th. We cannot hope to have a better chance of winning it for a good two or three years.

   I didn't expect us to get this close to winning either of the 'big two' trophies for another two seasons –– Benítez' third year –– but can you imagine the boost it would give these players, in terms of next season's Premiership performances, to be Champions of Europe? (Or even just to make the final?)

   With just the league to concentrate on –– don't forget, Rafa won the Uefa Cup with a heavily rotated side last year, while resting his stars for La Liga –– I'd expect Liverpool to make a serious (if ultimately unsuccessful) tilt at the title in just twelve months' time. This season's top three will be occupied by the 'big one', while Everton will do well to finish mid-table with all the extra games. Benítez also took charge of a team that, back in 2001, had made the Champions League final, and instantly turned them into the best team in Spain (for the first time in 31 years).

   What Liverpool would lose in money next season, it would more than compensate for with this year's earnings, and added commercial bonuses from being 'the best'. Not to mention the prestige, which, after all, is what it's all about. You try to make money to build the best team in Europe; if Rafa can do that, first time out, without spending money, then where's the problem? I can only foresee delirium. Liverpool FC was founded on winning the biggest trophies, not finishing 4th. I'd happily wait another three years for a major trophy, if 2005 is our year.

   As a game, Tuesday's clash is impossible to call. All you can guarantee is that Anfield will be not so much electric, as nuclear. Should fusion occur on the Kop, the heat and light of a thousand suns will vaporise the Chelsea players. (Although I imagine their manager would merely apply more tanning lotion.)


The two Iberians

While both Mourinho and Benítez share many similarities, comparisons remain difficult. Both are clearly great managers, but their tasks in the last twelve months have been radically different.

   One manager took charge of a team falling short of previous standards, and which had been well off the pace in the title race. This manager –– Rafael Benítez –- spent a little over £24m on his seven new recruits. The league form was pretty much the same, but there were extenuating factors –– although he himself will not accept all of the excuses, and has rightly laid down the gauntlet to his players.

   The other manager inherited an expensive team which had finished 2nd in the Premiership, with 79 points –– a title-winning tally for Manchester United in 1999, and more than Arsenal's in lifting the Premiership trophy in 1998. Chelsea had also reached this precise stage of the Champions League –– and all this with a manager, Claudio Ranieri, who had never taken a team to anything but domestic cups (Italy, Spain) or above 4th in a league table.

   Ranieri took the scatter-gun approach to signings: pay over £10m often enough, and eventually you'll end up with a collection of great players. He purchased Lampard, Duff, Makelele, and even landed Cech and Robben before he departed. He also purchased Veron, Crespo and Mutu –– expensive flops with no heart or desire. Easy come, easy go, when you're dealing with unlimited funds.   

   Even Gérard Houllier, who many still regard as a little 'lacking' at the very top level, won the French league with Paris St Germain in 1986 and, without the aid of a Russian billionaire's limitless funds, completed a remarkable treble with Liverpool –– a year before taking the side to second in the Premiership. He even managed to amass 80 points in 2002, one point more than Ranieri last season.

   Ranieri, in a twist of fate, then succeeded Benítez at Valencia –– inheriting a truly wonderful side –– and promptly proved an unmitigated disaster in his second spell at the Mestalla. He was fired earlier in this year with the team out of all the cups and languishing in mid-table in the Primera Liga.

   Even with a clearly second-rate manager in charge, Chelsea got to within touching distance of success. Why is that? Those who say the money is irrelevant, look at Chelsea under Ranieri pre-Abramovich, and post-Abramovich. Money buys success –– full-stop.

   Mourinho then came along and applied the finishing touches, engendering a fantastic team spirit and some very clever psychology –– getting them from 'very nearly men' to winners. Like his predecessor, he spent heavily, but all of his best players this season –– Terry, Lampard, Makelele, Cech, Duff, Cole and Robben –– were already at the club, or already on their way. He inherited a more 'complete' set-up than Benítez, and unlike his Spanish counterpart, had carte blanche to change things how he desired.

   Of Mourinho's singings, only £20m Ricardo Carvalho has looked anything like good value for money –– and for just £2m more, Benítez procured the three amigos: Xabi Alonso, Luis Garcia and Fernando Morientes. It didn't matter, though, as Mourinho's signings, while arguably 'flops' to a degree, gave them enough numbers to cope, and some variety. And as awful as Drogba has at times looked –– as an individual –– he provides the tactical fulcrum: the outlet for those crude but effective long balls.

   Drogba has been key to their success, as he is an awkward customer –– tall, fast, and clumsy (in a way that makes him hard to mark). He is an example of how Emile Heskey, if he'd been backed by better midfielders in 2002 (Zidane on the left, Figo on the right), and a more adventurous approach, may have played his part in winning the title for Liverpool. Drogba has scored an amount similar to an 'average' Heskey season, but without a Lampard in midfield, and without goal-scoring wingers, Liverpool then needed lots of goals from both its strikers.

   There's no such thing as a player "not good enough to play in a title-winning side". It depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the other ten players. The key is either to get the best out of each individual, or remove them to improve the balance of the side. Many experts think Chelsea need a Shevchenko or Eto'o. It could conceivably improve them, but it would mean they couldn't lump the ball into the 'mixer' –– precisely how they beat Bayern Munich. Chelsea are so good once they win the 'second balls'.

   Between the two of them, Ranieri and Mourinho spent £211m in 18 months. (Gérard Houllier's net expenditure in six years at Liverpool, including Cissé, who arrived after he had left, was approximately one-third that amount.) Mourinho spent almost as much as Benítez' entire outlay on one player: Drogba.

   Look at these facts:

   –– Mourinho didn't have to face losing a single player whom he'd rather had stayed; Benítez had no choice but to sell Michael Owen, his one and only proven Premiership goalscorer, once Real Madrid made their move.

   –– Mourinho didn't have any of his players unsettled by transfer talk; Benítez had Steven Gerrard's head turned and churned, time and time again.

   –– Mourinho had to deal with a number of injuries, but mostly to full-backs (where the brilliant Gallas could step in) and squad players; Benítez lost many of his key men, with the major disruption to the spine of the side.

   –– Mourinho had a super-strong squad; Benítez was working with players many felt were rejects, if not total joke figures. If Joe Cole has improved dramatically under Mourinho, then Igor Biscan is living proof that in fact you can, to counter Keith Richards's quote, "polish a turd". (Not that Igor was literally 'shit', of course, but many could be forgiven for thinking as much during the previous four years.)

   The only way to compare the two managers would have been to see how well Mourinho would have done had he taken charge of Chelsea in 2003, when the club scraped into the Champions League (at Liverpool's expense). Had Mourinho taken over at that point in time, and Abramovich instead purchased an Italian team (for example), then at least some kind of comparison could be made. Oh, but it would have needed Frank Lampard to be sold to Real Madrid, and John Terry's focus to be constantly undermined by the deafening barrage of rumours, speculation, and attacks on his loyalty.


The Game

In the previous four games against Chelsea, Liverpool have played in a variety of ways (brilliant, good, poor) and in a variety of styles (attacking, aggressive, possession-based, negative, counter-attacking). Chelsea, meanwhile, have a more simple game, but one which is very effective.

   Jozef Venglos, who won the European Championship in 1976 with Czechoslovakia, was at the BayArena in March as a Uefa technical observer. He talked effusively of Liverpool's counter-attacking and praised the "nice combinations". Asked to analyse Chelsea's style, he noted, without sarcasm: "Well, their players are running." 

   It was interesting to see Mourinho choose to put out his strongest team at Bolton, a place where he knew his players, to quote the phrase, could have been 'kicked into next Tuesday'. (Images of Frank Lampard landing on the Anfield turf having, three days earlier, been up-ended by Kevin Davies along the M62 spring happily to mind.) Mourinho was clever instead of resting his stars, he wanted his players to arrive on Tuesday as Champions. That relieves a lot of pressure. Psychologically, their players, although bruised and battered by Bolton, will not feel it, as the endorphins soothe their bodies. Winning is a great way to relieve fatigue.

   (Had they lost, then that would have been a different matter. However, to continue the bizarre sequence of ifs and buts, had Bolton won, that would have put more pressure on Liverpool with regards to re-qualifying, especially with Bolton still to face Everton. As it was, the Reds ended up a point better off than their rivals, despite "dropping" two. It now means that that the point could turn out to be worth two –– as Everton's goal difference is so inferior. It puts Liverpool within just one win of overhauling 'that lot', although with only two games remaining to their three, the lot from Goodison Park remain favourites. That it's three points also means that if Everton draw all three games –– not beyond the realms of possibility, given they face three 'tough' games –– Liverpool would need to beat a distracted Arsenal and a poor Aston Villa to finish above them. It's not over yet . . .)

   The flip-side to Chelsea's success is that one or two Chelsea players may take their eye off the ball. Success is new to nearly all of that side. Mourinho will guard against his team –– to use the Ronnie Moran phrase –– playing the game as if 'still on their lap of honour'. But it only needs the smallest amount of complacency to creep in to the performance of a couple of his players, and it could make all the difference. While success may buoy them yet further, you could argue that one or two may rest on their laurels.

   Liverpool are not at the level of Chelsea with regards consistency, but in the big games Liverpool have grown increasingly impressive as the season has progressed. Liverpool's best team –– which Rafa has still been unable to field –– isn't a million miles behind Chelsea's, but it doesn't have quite the right balance.

   Thankfully, Chelsea have fitness issues regarding a number of players, whereas Liverpool are welcoming back most of the squad –– that the club got this far without them was a remarkable achievement. The shame is that while someone like Cissé is 'fit', he is nowhere near 'match fit'. There hasn't been time to give all these players (Cissé, Kewell, Hamann, Alonso) reserve games –– they've just gone straight into the squad, almost from the moment they could run without pain.

   So while it's great to have Cissé back, it's only 60% of the player he will be come next August. Same with Harry Kewell, who has been working hard in Cadiz in Spain to get fit, and who has lost a lot of weight, and finally looks like the Kewell of old (in terms of appearance, alice-band excepted). However, he himself says he's only 80% fit –– but that, for once, it's 80% fit without the pain. Benítez, who rates him so highly he played him at Cardiff and on other key occasions, even when he was only 60% fit, would love a 100% fit Kewell, and next season now promises that. However, he will be glad that Kewell's return at least gives him another option, even if not as a starter.

   Benítez has the luxury that, for a variety of reasons, the majority of his first choice outfield players for Tuesday either didn't play at all at the weekend, or were on the pitch for only half a game or less. While players can make too much of fatigue, it stands to reason that if you have two sets of equally-fit athletes, those who have had a less gruelling week will be in a fresher condition. Players are not cars filled with unlimited gallons of petrol. They are human beings, and even 10% below their normal selves is enough to make a huge difference in the tightest of matches.

   On Tuesday, Liverpool will welcome back six players into the starting XI: Hyypia, Traore, Biscan, Hamann, Luis Garcia and Baros. (While Riise was "rested" in the second half with an easy, if unusual, spell at centre-half.) Unless Chelsea can recall Duff and Robben, they will have much less scope for change. That Joe Cole was the only player rested yesterday perhaps hints at serious concerns over the other two. As good as Cole has been recently, rather him fit than either of the other two.

   Anyway, it's not about fitness, it's about freshness. People talk about the modern players being athletes, and therefore failing to understand how players can't repeat games so quickly. I'd ask anyone to try and play a second game of football –– at Premiership pace –– two hours after a first, and tell me if they feel as fresh. While players get a couple of days, and not a couple of hours, it stands to reason that the more recovery time (up to a week), the better shape the player will be in. Footballers cover up to ten miles in a game. Running ten miles at jogging pace is one thing; doing so with a mix of lung-bursting sprints over 10-to-100 yards, sharp twists and turns, and energetic jumps, while being kicked from all angles (bruising muscles in the process), is something entirely different.

   Chelsea had a tough game against Liverpool on Wednesday, and a gruelling one yesterday. In both they were made to work hard. If they win on Tuesday (without the help of the referee, for once this season against the Reds) they will deserve all the plaudits they will get. Last season Chelsea had the advantage of meeting Arsenal in the quarter-final when the Gunners also had to face, domestically, a gruelling FA Cup encounter with Manchester United, as well as a high-pressure, high-intensity league encounter with those same bitter rivals. Arsenal were visibly shattered by the time they faced Chelsea in the second leg.

   The way the Reds worked Chelsea on Wednesday was the most encouraging aspect. I was pleased to see a comment I made in my post-match analysis of the first leg  –– about how we negated Chelsea's threat by keeping the ball –– backed up by Alan Curbishley in today's Observer.

   I noted that: It is the way I was crying out for the Reds to defend under Houllier: by keeping the ball, where possible, rather than lumping it upfield at every opportunity.  Curbishley said: "They set about stifling Chelsea, but not by kicking them or pressuring them. They did it by keeping the ball. Their three midfield players tended to try to string six, seven, eight passes together. Chelsea were not able to get up a head of steam. They never really got going and neither did the crowd."

   Chelsea tend to play more like Houllier's Reds than Benítez'. Mourinho loves to field a 'narrow' team, with midfielders who tuck inside, while Rafa loves width (just look at Antonio Núñez yesterday, getting to the byline, as did Kewell).

   Of course, Mourinho inherited two of the best wingers in world football (Benítez merely inherited an injury-plagued Harry Kewell). However, the Portuguese has used them more as attacking strikers either side of the target man, than 'touchline huggers'.  When Robben was injured, there was no great change in terms of winning games –– just in terms of how they won them. Like Houllier's Liverpool, Chelsea look to long balls into the channels, or balls lumped up to the big man. The difference is that Chelsea have better collection of players than Houllier ever possessed –– with a little more strength in certain areas, notably pace in defence.
   
   For all Mourinho's attempts at psychology (pathetic in this instance), Rafa can let a Chelsea player do all his motivational speaking. (Not that the players need motivating, but any little extra spur can only be beneficial.) What Chelsea have gained from Gudjohnsen getting Alonso booked, with his scandalous dive, they will lose ten-fold from the galvanising effect it will have on the men in red. That the Icelandic international apparently gloated about the fact will only make it worse for both himself, and his colleagues. An angry Anfield –– cheering on a 'wronged' Liverpool side –– is not a welcoming place.

   A sense of injustice goes a long way in football. For Liverpool, against Chelsea, the list grows ever-longer: the injury to Alonso courtesy of Lampard, followed by the cynical attempt to get the same player removed from the second leg; the outrageous own-goal in Cardiff, and the heavily-deflected Joe Cole winner at Anfield; not to mention four very credible shouts for penalties this season, all turned down. Meanwhile, Dudek played extra-time at the Millennium Stadium with a massive gash in his shin, from another poor –– if not malicious –– tackle, and only then did a Chelsea player put the ball past him.

   All this, without even mentioning Steven Gerrard. Having been hampered by dental surgery on Wednesday he scored his best goal in four years yesterday, to confirm his best-ever goalscoring season. You don't play with your teeth, of course, but a local anaesthetic and antibiotics won't have left him feeling at all well, so it was great to see that out of his system.

   The Kop will be crucial, as will the other three sides of Anfield. Intimidating Chelsea's players with a 'wall of sound' even Phil Spector would have been proud of is important, but intimidating the referee more so. Premiership referees tend to give Liverpool very little at Anfield, for fear of being accused of bowing to the Kop. But European referees are different. Not only are they not used to the unique atmosphere in English grounds, with the fans so close to the pitch, but Anfield is always twice the stadium on European nights. It is rarely intimidating in domestic fixtures, bar the big ones.

   On Tuesday it will be ten times its normal volume. Liverpool fans aren't stupid –– they know the team is still in transition. They know it could be a couple of years before nights like this are back at Anfield, and having missed out on European Cup semi-finals for 20 years, they won't let this one pass quietly by.

   I've heard a lot about Chelsea's defence in the Premiership, and how people can't see them conceding at Anfield. Juventus had conceded two goals in Europe all season –– and just one from open play –– and yet within half an hour they were 2-0 down at Anfield,  shell-shocked and blizted, and heading out. Chelsea, meanwhile, have lost their last three Champions League away games, and conceded plenty of goals in the process.

   They have progressed by putting four past Barcelona and Bayern Munich at Stamford Bridge. They put none past Liverpool, and the only way they'd have had an attempt on target was if a Red headed towards his own goal. (Lightning didn't strike twice, thankfully.) Petr Cech, meanwhile, needs to be given as much chance with shots as Gianluigi Buffon before him –– when Juventus could only draw 0-0 at the Stadio Delle Alpi, but lost at Anfield two two unstoppable strikes.

   In those terms, the European form book suggests Liverpool all the way. The pressure, however, remains on Chelsea.

   I am not one for predicting scores, as doing so is rather random. Apart from those possesed of (or afflicted with) crystal balls, who can tell? But I do sense both teams will score in this game, and I know Liverpool can score more than once –– in fact, I have a 'feeling' the Reds will score three goals, but that's a random feeling, and not a prediction. The worst-case scenario, in terms of nerves, will be a one-goal Liverpool advantage going into the final stages. It will be unbearable, given the away goal rule, and the ordeal of Bayer Leverkusen in 2002, where a late goal changed the situation from 'winning' to 'losing', when normally you need to first go through 'drawing'.

   I can almost certainly guarantee that Liverpool will play extremely well, with a superb tempo and tenacity –– I just hope it turns out to be enough. If it doesn't, at least Liverpool Football Club will finish the game with its pride intact, as the world looks on.

© Paul Tomkins 2005

"Golden Past, Red Future" is available to pre-order at £8.99, £1 cheaper than when it becomes available (late May/early June, dependent on progressing to the Champions League final, seeing as the book will feature a review of the occasion). There are still a few individually numbered copies available from the initial print run, but orders have been brisk of late.

Amongst many other things, the book will include:
   - A review of this season's Premiership, cup and Champions League campaigns, focusing on key games;
   - A look at what went wrong in Gérard Houllier's final seasons, and what led to the exit of Michael Owen, and the near-exit of Steven Gerrard;
   - An analysis of the Rafael Benítez, looking at how he built his success at Valencia,  his methods, and his plans for Liverpool;
   - An in-depth look at the key players in the current squad, as well as the up-and-coming prospects;
   - A look at the projected future of the club, both on and off the field.
Simply go to www.paultomkins.com for details on how to order.
[/b]










« Last Edit: May 2, 2005, 08:40:57 pm by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Yasar

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #1 on: May 1, 2005, 04:30:57 pm »
My favourite article of yours to date. It's pumped me up for Tuesday even more so than before (I didn't think it was possible). You've got a wonderful insight into the game, and your extensive knowledge of things being said in the media also helps. If there was ever a piece of writing to lose your virginity over, it's this.
They proved that if you quit smoking, it will prolong your life. What they haven't proved is that a prolonged life is a good thing. I haven't seen the stats on that yet.
-Bill Hicks

Offline Yasar

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #2 on: May 1, 2005, 04:32:38 pm »
PS: Bring your fucking book out already.
They proved that if you quit smoking, it will prolong your life. What they haven't proved is that a prolonged life is a good thing. I haven't seen the stats on that yet.
-Bill Hicks

Offline hooded claw

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #3 on: May 1, 2005, 04:34:44 pm »
PS: Bring your fucking book out already.

All good things to those who wait, Clarice...  ;)

Offline Yasar

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #4 on: May 1, 2005, 04:42:50 pm »
All good things to those who wait, Clarice...  ;)

Your witty inside jokes are wasted on me, y'know :P

I STILL can't get over how damn good this piece is.
« Last Edit: May 1, 2005, 06:03:50 pm by Yasar »
They proved that if you quit smoking, it will prolong your life. What they haven't proved is that a prolonged life is a good thing. I haven't seen the stats on that yet.
-Bill Hicks

Offline afc tukrish

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #5 on: May 1, 2005, 04:59:53 pm »
in need of a sabbatical indeed... :P
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline hooded claw

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #6 on: May 1, 2005, 05:02:20 pm »
Your witty inside jokes are wasted one me, y'know :P

I STILL can't get over how damn good this piece is.

Lecter to Starling, Silence of the Lambs.
 :wave

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #7 on: May 1, 2005, 05:11:49 pm »
Had just written this in reply, but the post seems to have disappeared?


Chelsea's performance under Ranieri pre-Abramovich and post-Abramovich doesn't prove that money buys success. We'll never know if Ranieri would have won the league this season as Chelsea manager. I suspect maybe not, which would suggest that money alone can not buy success.

As you say, they got to "within touching distance". They didn't actually "buy" any success with Ranieri last year because they didn't have any. A miss is as good as a mile.


I get your drift, but a miss isn't as good as a mile, regarding "relative" success.

Chelsea under Ranieri *before* the money was radically different to after the money. If Chelsea could still *head in the right direction* under a buffoon ( :P ), then it shows how much money altered things.

I describe Mourinho as "uber-talented", I believe? As I sum up elsewhere, management is crucial, but money plays such a large part in their case. Had Mourinho taken over in 2003, without Abramovich's millions, would they be champions now?

As you say, I very much doubt it.



in need of a sabbatical indeed... :P


Well, I wouldn't be here now but for your email yesterday, or Timbo's Goals' IM today...  :P    :wave

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #8 on: May 1, 2005, 06:35:33 pm »
in need of a sabbatical indeed... :P


Well, I wouldn't be here now but for your email yesterday, or Timbo's Goals' IM today...  :P    :wave

compliment, or curse... :P :wave
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline vikas

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #9 on: May 1, 2005, 06:45:25 pm »
Thanks for the read Paul, I enjoy reading your writing.

Slightly off-topic but it could also be said that Abramovich's money bought Mourinho too, hence he is part of the "money buys success" equation.



« Last Edit: May 1, 2005, 06:47:09 pm by vikas »

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #10 on: May 1, 2005, 06:52:41 pm »
My favourite article of yours to date. It's pumped me up for Tuesday even more so than before (I didn't think it was possible). You've got a wonderful insight into the game, and your extensive knowledge of things being said in the media also helps. If there was ever a piece of writing to lose your virginity over, it's this.


Thanks for the compliments, although the last line worries me a little...  :P

Offline Alf

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #11 on: May 1, 2005, 07:05:28 pm »
Superb article.

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #12 on: May 1, 2005, 07:39:15 pm »
Very,Very well in Paul :thumbup
The cheek of that mon, deserves a shlap

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #13 on: May 1, 2005, 07:46:56 pm »
Thanks for that Paul. 

It's got me all excited, and looking forward to Tuesday.  I'm fine now, but know that come Tuesday itself, I'll be pottering around all afternoon once I get in from work.  It's just a way of trying to keep the nerves at bay.  Early tea, beers at the ready.  Then settle down for the big event.

We all know that Anfield will be at it's most beautiful and animated on Tuesday evening.

Come on you red men!!! 
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Offline FinnishRed

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #14 on: May 1, 2005, 07:48:39 pm »
Excellent  :wave

Offline ckkj

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #15 on: May 1, 2005, 08:36:57 pm »
Great read yet again

Offline Obiwon

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #16 on: May 1, 2005, 09:02:17 pm »
I read all your articles Paul and enjoy them so much. I am so lazy that I never post any feedback though. The "Stadium" piece and this one were so good I have to let you know - A real breath of fresh air and a real fillip against the deluge of (generally) negative press  from media about LFC. Thanks m8
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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #17 on: May 1, 2005, 09:05:55 pm »

Jozef Venglos, who won the European Championship in 1976 with Czechoslovakia, was at the BayArena in March as a Uefa technical observer. He talked effusively of Liverpool's counter-attacking and praised the "nice combinations". Asked to analyse Chelsea's style, he noted, without sarcasm: "Well, their players are running." 

Top article - enjoyed reading that.

Might be wrong here, but wasnt that the same Jozef Venglos who managed Villa and was sacked pretty quickly for proving to be inept? It is a good quote and fills ya with confidence re: Rafa, but I think its a bit niave of him to suggest that Chelsea are tactically poor. You dont win the league and reach the semis in Europe if ya dont know what your doing.

Having said all that, I do think Rafa won a tactical battle last Wednesday - its just a damn shame that Part 2 of his plan won't involve Alonso. We're gonna miss him, but heres hoping the 12th man can help even that one out.  ;)
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Offline Lanrmort

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #18 on: May 1, 2005, 09:33:10 pm »
Had just written this in reply, but the post seems to have disappeared?



Yeah, I took it down because I think you cover the point about Mourinho being the difference between Chelsea nearly achieving things last year and actually doing so this year.

Benitez will have achieved so much more than Mourinho if he wins the European Cup this year. Also, Mourinho's achievements, despite his obvious ability, will always come with the caveat of having been achieved in no small part due to Abramovich's billions.
« Last Edit: May 1, 2005, 10:18:19 pm by lanrmort »
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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #19 on: May 1, 2005, 09:41:31 pm »
To quote Jimmy Hill (blessed be his chin name), "if you gave Rafa Benitez 200 million he'd give you the Championship too."

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #20 on: May 1, 2005, 09:48:14 pm »
Nice article - enjoyed reading again...
Paul...
 how about if I will translate your article(into russian) and post it on russian liverpool fc website??  :wave

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #21 on: May 1, 2005, 10:39:05 pm »
Thanks for the comments, folks :wave


Nice article - enjoyed reading again...
Paul...
 how about if I will translate your article(into russian) and post it on russian liverpool fc website??  :wave


Feel free!


Yeah, I took it down because I think you cover the point about Mourinho being the difference between Chelsea nearly achieving things last year and actually doing so this year.


Thought I was going mad!  :D



I read all your articles Paul and enjoy them so much. I am so lazy that I never post any feedback though.


Many thanks - no need to post feedback, but always nice to read  :wave


To quote Jimmy Hill (blessed be his chin name), "if you gave Rafa Benitez 200 million he'd give you the Championship too."


Even super-Manc Steve Curry said the same, on Mr Hill's programme this morning.

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #22 on: May 1, 2005, 10:43:22 pm »
Not bad  ;)

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #23 on: May 1, 2005, 10:54:45 pm »
Not bad  ;)


No more requests, though. Don't want to start a "request-an-article" service...  :P

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #24 on: May 2, 2005, 12:02:09 am »

Curbishley said: "They set about stifling Chelsea, but not by kicking them or pressuring them. They did it by keeping the ball. Their three midfield players tended to try to string six, seven, eight passes together. Chelsea were not able to get up a head of steam. They never really got going and neither did the crowd."

...

I can almost certainly guarantee that Liverpool will play extremely well, with a superb tempo and tenacity –– I just hope it turns out to be enough. If it doesn't, at least Liverpool Football Club will finish the game with its pride intact, as the world looks on.


Yes! It was great to watch us keep the ball. It's been much more of that than the "team bus approach" we've witnessed in recent seasons. That is extremely positive. We now have a defensive game that is constructive and I'm so pleased we've chosen that route.

And we have certainly sent a fine message to the football world with this year's run in the CL. It's not just that we have done well. We have played a more positive brand of football. The neutrals will love that. We haven't "cheated" our way to the Semis with catenaccio football.

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #25 on: May 2, 2005, 07:38:52 am »
It is definitely an attempt to appear to be a balanced article, but in the end I think it struggles to be that. It is yet another exercise of vindicating the fact that Rafael Benitez is our manager, and trying to make Jose Mourinho appear lucky. And somehow, you have to look back at what Mourinho has done at Porto, and although the money at Chelsea has been a massive factor, Mourinho and his men have more than played their part. And there are more flaws in the article.

However I would agree that not going into the Champions' League next year to defend is not all that bad. Still, we have to win the thing first, and all this talk smacks of counting too much of the chickens already. There are still two incredibly difficult games to go, so let's win them first.
« Last Edit: May 2, 2005, 07:42:02 am by HIRA »
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #26 on: May 2, 2005, 09:54:59 am »
It is definitely an attempt to appear to be a balanced article, but in the end I think it struggles to be that. It is yet another exercise of vindicating the fact that Rafael Benitez is our manager, and trying to make Jose Mourinho appear lucky.


You are kind, as ever, sir  :wave

I write from the perspective of a Liverpool fan, and make no bones about that. I try to be balanced, to a degree, but I don't hide my bias.

I think if you read it again I mention, on several occasions, how good a manager Mourinho is. ("Both are clearly great managers, but their tasks in the last twelve months have been radically different" and so on). I'm sure you'll find plenty of sickeningly-effusive praise for Mourinho on Chelsea's websites. Just Google and you'll find some.


And there are more flaws in the article.


Well if you can't even be bothered to read it properly, why should I take you seriously? I don't mind criticism, but I certainly do mind people not even bothering to read what I've written before commenting.

Feel free to write a 2000 word piece, and then let me lazily misread it and pull it apart.   :wave
« Last Edit: May 2, 2005, 10:05:10 am by Paul Tomkins »

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #27 on: May 2, 2005, 09:56:59 am »

You are kind, as ever, sir  :wave

 :lmao

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #28 on: May 2, 2005, 10:28:32 am »
Superb Paul.
I was quietly hoping that a few key players would pick up knocks against bolton.

Anyway....does anybody know why baros was not selected the other day??
I was just wondering wether Benitez is going to unleash Cisse on them

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #29 on: May 2, 2005, 11:39:22 am »
I would assume, given Baros' back injury at Palace, and his importance for Tuesday, that he was rested. Anything else seems like adding 2 + 2 and getting 739...

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #30 on: May 2, 2005, 11:46:42 am »
Quote
I would assume, given Baros' back injury at Palace, and his importance for Tuesday, that he was rested. Anything else seems like adding 2 + 2 and getting 739...


Cheers
Wasnt sure if he was injured, hadnt heard anything.

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #31 on: May 2, 2005, 12:13:16 pm »
If the article wasn't biased, then it would be harder to nit-pick and misread.. But I do see where you come from, although the comparisons between Rafa and Mourinho have been done to death and we have heard it all before, how hard Rafa has it, and how easy Mourinho supposedly has it.
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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions Leauge preview
« Reply #32 on: May 2, 2005, 01:48:00 pm »
If the article wasn't biased, then it would be harder to nit-pick and misread.


Funnily enough, most people respect the lack of bias I tend to show. Having said that, I am a Liverpool supporter writing about Liverpool FC for Liverpool fans on a Liverpool fan site. Work it out for yourself.

I fully respect and acknowledge what Mourinho has achieved, but if you don't think it has been much easier for him than it has for Benitez at Liverpool, a) given he inherited a better squad, b) given he has spent three times as much money, and c) given Chelsea were already very close to the Premiership title and Champions League final last time out, then you clearly have your head very firmly stuck up your own arse  :wave

If it's been said before, all well and good. No one is forcing you to read what I write  :)

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview
« Reply #33 on: May 3, 2005, 07:31:31 am »
A perfect prelude to the game tonight.     

Both Rafa and Mourinho play supremely organised football.  But Rafa's is more subtle while Mourinho's is more direct AND cynical.   The subtext, as we have witnessed, is that Rafa's has a lot of flexibility.  That cannot be said for Chelsea, or is it rather a case that they do not need it?  The question jumps to mind reading your analysis:  is Mourinho's style, quite similar to our treble year, sustainable in the long run?  Has having a "superior" set of players compensated whatever deficiencies it might have?

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview
« Reply #34 on: May 3, 2005, 09:12:12 am »
It is not surprising that underhanded and deceptive techniques have been directed behind the scenes by Mourinho to rid Liverpool of players like alonso, etc. If one read his self-autobiography which he co-authores with Luis Lourenco, he proudly acclaims like a martyr to physically preventing an opposition  player on one occasion from going ahead with a throw-in, just because his players were not back in position and ready. If anyone noticed, in the first leg at Stamford Bridge, the wet and slippery field appeared to affect the reds much, but NOT the blues. Now, in certain tournaments in Asia, it is well known that some teams play better under wet or rainy conditions than others, and it is understood that these teams usually have their home-ground "hosed-down" with water prior to a crucial match with a team that adapts poorly to playing under wet-conditions. Other than water, "flour coloured green" are also used during dry weather to create a slippery surface for the opposition team. I know I am just speculating when it comes to Chelsea, since I do not have the evidence, but they did seem to adapt much, much better to the slippery conditions on their home ground.
Chelsea, and Mourinho especiially, are cunning in that they capitalize on the fact that there are usually jealousy, criticism, allegations, and other forms of insults aimed at popular successful figures or entities - Chelsea uses this fact to indulge in under-handed tactics without fear of being proved guilty. It is a win-win situation for Mourinho, as he claims that it is usual for him or chelsea to be criticized, since they are so successful (in his mind) - so nobody will really investigate (except the American republicans who had so much time on their hands trying to nail clinton). At the same time, the speculations and accusation throughly pleases him, because a look at his tantrums reveals childhood trauma - and therefore a current cry for attention. Oh, he has suffered miscarriages of justice, suffered in the hands of the envious, and he has martyred himself for the sake of one team. Only thing is, its not one team, his lack of loyalty has seen him prostituting himself to one team after another, for which he tries to provide credible valid excuses. For example, he asserts in his book that he found it suspicious that, the person who tried arranging a meeting between him and Liverpool officials, who tried recruiting while he was with Porto, was someone who worked closely with Porto. In other words, he was implying that that were behind-the-scene going-ons because a Liverpool middleman strangely had close-rapport with Porto. Mourinho was laying the foundation to explaining and disguising the last minute choice of Benitez over him, to cover his embarassment. And he tried to simultaneously explain his choice of going to chelsea, so as not to be accused haveing the dollar sterling-pound sign stamped on his forehead. In fact, he admits in his book, that medals are not going to get you favours, money will.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview
« Reply #35 on: May 3, 2005, 09:54:01 am »
I did notice how all our players kept slipping, and made a note of it at half-time. What's worrying is that we didn't change our studs at half-time.

Watering the pitch is commonplace. I don't see that as any kind of crime, but Gudjohnsen's actions were scandalous, as he knew what he was doing, and to whom he was doing.

Offline Templar

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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview
« Reply #36 on: May 3, 2005, 06:36:45 pm »
Watering down the pitch may be common place and not a crime, but if its done with the intent of creating a disadvantage for the opposition team, then it, in fact, can be a crime - if the intent is malicious and opposition players suffer from injury - its called occupiers liability. I am trying to point out that chelsea, or any team under Mourinho, will not hesitate to resort to any measure to get the edge, so we cannot rule out the possibility of our Liverpool players being endangered by those wankers which go undetected to the officials. Whats happened to alonso - twice - is a sign of things to come. The beauty of the Liverpool team is this: Do you realize how every single player has a likable personality whether or not they win or lose? They are such affable lads. Benitez is silently brilliant, while Mourinho figures his psychological tact is untouchable - but Mourinho is in actual fact more of a bullshitter than any manager I know. As Alex Ferguson said, he's a coach, not a manager. Win or lose tonight, Liverpool is to me the best, and will always be. Chelsea may play great football, but Liverpool is a great team. Period.
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Re: Benítez vs Mourinho: in-depth Champions League preview
« Reply #37 on: May 3, 2005, 09:57:31 pm »
Just so that all Liverpool fans will know, the Australian and British hosts of the Asian branch of ESPN are loudly proclaiming the Garcia'a goal to be invalid and controversial. Now the accusations will start, not surprisingly from Mourinho and his chipmunks too, that had it not been for a falso goal, chelsea would have gone through. As I write this, Mourinho is giving an interview saying chelsea was the better team and the inferior team won. What everyone fails to see is that not Manchester United, not the stale Arsenal team, not Everton (well, just to include a flash in the pan performer in the league), no english team has shown chelsea that money cannot buy heart, and that they are not going to earn anyone's respect just for being a dream-team. Chelsea is far from a dream team, unlike Liverpool; and I dare say Liverpool is a dream team because they are the underdogs who showed the Blues what football is all about. Somehow I find the loud protests of the Australian ESPN staff on television unforgivable, but cant help understanding as well that if they had any knowledge of football equivalent to their British counterparts, they would not be in Asia.
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