Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1  (Read 10222 times)

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2014, 12:43:09 pm »
Not to turn this into a Gerrard argument but Timbo is absolutely right. Gerrard he didn't have a good game. Actually far from it. So many misplaced passes, lack of understanding with the rest of the players like he was his 1st game with the club.

I agrree. the man has been far too great and pivotal a servant. But i simply could not believe his performance for that opening 60/70 minutes but especially the first half. I was beseeching him to get hold of the ball and show he was the captain, the leader - both to his team-mates and the fans. To at least once drive forward and show some determination to lift the team and the crowd. Instead I lost count of the 'pass the buck' first-time passes 90% of which either went backwards or sidewards or else squandered possession.

His own tackle in the second half on the Kemlyn road touchline seemed to lift him. And his teammates and the crowd. It showed what might have been had he done it 40 minutes earlier.

Maybe though he's sick of carrying the team after a decade or more doing it [save for last seson and the post Chrimbo ru-in of the one before that]

Offline TSC

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2014, 01:00:57 pm »
Does anyone else think that Glen Johnson looked solid in a back three when we went with that after the red card?




To be fair thought Basel sat back and didn't press the way they had been.  Even then through our gung-ho approach near the end they still sliced through us on the break on a number of occasions.

Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2014, 01:30:46 pm »
The old adage that "you only play as well as the other team lets you" springs to mind.

Basel pressed us all over the pitch for almost all the game. They were also technically better and quicker than us in body and thought. The only exceptions on our side being Gerrard, Sterling and Moreno when he came on, in my opinion.

Give Basel some credit, lads.


Agree first half Basel pressed very well and Lucas and even Allen one of our best players in possession struggled. I'm not sure Lucas was needed personally and I thought Brendan should have been braver with his team selection by possibly reverting back to Gerrard as regista and a Coutinho Allen midfield.

We played long for a lot of the first half, lost Ricky second half and didn't really show up as a side until 80mins. Not much else to say to be honest but we've been poor this season, the whole thing is a shambles. Rodgers is inexperienced and no surprise he's failed in Europe in his first crack at it but even at that we should have got through that group with the side we have no two ways about it.

Starting to feel we may as well right this season off, develop what we have (Markovic, Manquilo, Moreno, Can etc) and add the missing links this summer (GK, pacey mobile striker). Not worrying about a poor season, its not the end of the world but with one FSG with their track record will likely sack Rodgers and I'm not looking forward to ANOTHER season of transition. Not only that though I think Rodgers deserves another season because of what we achieved (almost achieved) last season. Wouldn't rule out a cup this season either, not that that'll help his cause.
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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2014, 03:19:35 pm »
I agrree. the man has been far too great and pivotal a servant. But i simply could not believe his performance for that opening 60/70 minutes but especially the first half. I was beseeching him to get hold of the ball and show he was the captain, the leader - both to his team-mates and the fans. To at least once drive forward and show some determination to lift the team and the crowd. Instead I lost count of the 'pass the buck' first-time passes 90% of which either went backwards or sidewards or else squandered possession.

His own tackle in the second half on the Kemlyn road touchline seemed to lift him. And his teammates and the crowd. It showed what might have been had he done it 40 minutes earlier.

Maybe though he's sick of carrying the team after a decade or more doing it [save for last seson and the post Chrimbo ru-in of the one before that]
I just thought nhis performance was spectacularly thoughtless.: playing through balls to no one (as if Suarez and Sturridge were still on the pitch) demanding the ball in poor positions and berating players who elected instead to shoot/misplaced a difficult pass to him. He also was trying to score long rangers from early on, that was also misguided.
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline storkfoot

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2014, 05:13:38 pm »
Please tell me you put that in out of grudging polite respect for such a wonderful club servant and not because you felt he merited it on his night's quite shocking overall performance [free kick and one run apart]

I do disagree. I think Gerrard was one of our better players on the night but lets put it another way.

No Liverpool player played especially well on the night. I'd probably give Sterling 6/10 as our best player over the 90 minutes. The reason none played well is (i) Basel stopped us playing with their pressing and (ii) when we got the ball we couldn't keep hold of it let alone work many scoring chances. That is symptomatic of the malaise of our play for the last 2 months.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that, on the night, if I was Basel manager looking at our team, the only Liverpool players who showed enough athleticism, technique and "will to win" to even warrant being considered good enough to get in the Basel side, were Sterling, Gerrard and Moreno.

Before you think I am blind to Gerrard's shortcomings, I wasn't happy with him at all in the first half when he berated Lambert and Sterling for having the temerity to not be on the end of a couple of his slightly wayward passes. In my opinion, this has been a defect in his captaincy for years. He only ever berates the perceived "weaker" members of the team. 

Offline zanwalk

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2014, 10:59:01 pm »
<snip>

<snip>

I know I am not adding anything to the debate here, but felt compelled to thank the above posters for their excellent contributions to this thread. I regularly read the 'round table' threads because I find them fascinating, unfortunately I don't posess the necessary analytical skills to contribute anything.

Offline Robinred

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2014, 11:50:54 pm »
Gerrard and Lambert have little to no pace, Henderson and Sterling do. If the former found the latter effectively then we would have our pace and therefore our first step to victory. No doubt that was the plan for Brendan.

Lucas and Allen mop up loose balls and recycle to Gerrard/Lambert to start off that process. It all sounds pretty reasonable but there was a massive flaw with that last night and it was that Lambert and Gerrard, collectively, created bugger all space in the centre of the pitch. They didn't pull wide to give room for runs inside.

I thought that was the major flaw in our attacking play and it will continue to be the major flaw in our attacking play whilst we carry two older sets of legs. For all the criticism hurled at the feet of Borini, if you put him there instead of Lambert we might have had a bit of space to attack. We took Lambert off and brought on someone with pace and we got a little better. Simple rule to keep in mind for future games.

Gerrard is gorgeous with pace around him, but without it he increases our attacking problems - ditto Lambert.

I suggest those who haven't read Kristian Walsh in the Echo - give it a go.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-brendan-rodgers-must-turn-8263580

Promoting a youth player is not a bad idea, but a key point KWALSH makes is that we need to reintroduce pace to our team. As ever he's spot on. Brendan will figure it out if we give him time, he deserves at least this season and the next should we not finish lower than 6th in either.

Anyone calling Rogers a 'Fraud', 'PR Man' or 'Charlatan' should be shot on the spot for being a) daft as a brush and, b) entirely unimaginative.


I am old, and thus able to apply a little "give and take" to the debate about Brendan's culpability in our current malaise.

But this is, frankly, crap.

"...Brendan will figure it out, given time"?


He (Brendan), unlike you and me, gets very handsomely paid to supervise training, prepare for matchdays, watch at first-hand the goings on on the training pitch and then the matchday pitch, and as a consequence actually make the decisions about how to affect what he sees happening on said pitch.

So you are suggesting that he needs MORE time to see what everyone and his dog - without the aforementioned advantages of the best seat in the house and the added perk of actually having  the major say in the selection process to begin with (being manager and all) - can see?

What happened to accountability?

« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 12:06:47 am by Robinred »
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2014, 10:57:29 am »
I agrree. the man has been far too great and pivotal a servant. But i simply could not believe his performance for that opening 60/70 minutes but especially the first half. I was beseeching him to get hold of the ball and show he was the captain, the leader - both to his team-mates and the fans. To at least once drive forward and show some determination to lift the team and the crowd. Instead I lost count of the 'pass the buck' first-time passes 90% of which either went backwards or sidewards or else squandered possession.

His own tackle in the second half on the Kemlyn road touchline seemed to lift him. And his teammates and the crowd. It showed what might have been had he done it 40 minutes earlier.

Maybe though he's sick of carrying the team after a decade or more doing it [save for last seson and the post Chrimbo ru-in of the one before that]

When exactly did Gerrard last carry the team? As you said not this season, not last season or the one before. He was injured for most of the one before that, the one before that they were all hopeless under Hodgson and then he got injured. The year before that he was a key part of a great team in 08/09. We have had other quality players.

We need to remember with Gerrard that Rodgers moved him deeper over two years ago at 32 from that forward position because he didn't have the legs and energy. Now he's moved him back because he can't play the deeper role, or specifically can't do the defensive work and offensively it's pointless with our attack. He's got less legs and energy now so he will have to heavily pace himself over 90 minutes and is an impact player now rather than someone who can dominate a game in the thick of the action. He's a player of moments and in the absence of S&S he's the only available player likely to produce a moment now and did on Tuesday night. I thought before and during the game I could only see Gerrard scoring in that team.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 11:00:22 am by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline b_joseph

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2014, 11:43:29 am »
I'm not sure too many people feel like we had a right to qualify. The anger or crush toons comes from continued poor performances more than it does poor results.

I think some folks lost their mind a bit when talking about how we should have attacked fast and early. Especially when you consider that we haven't scored goals all season and whenever we stretch a game out, we usually look vulnerable.
So the idea to keel it at 0-0 and then try to win it from your bench wasn't a bad plan. But that probably with defending rendered it useless after their goal..equal parts terrible from us and wonderful from them once they retrieved the ball.

Ultimately, it was a bit silly to just assume or even hope that we would suddenly go from being pretty poor since August to playing the game of our season against Basel.


Funny how it usually comes back to Gerrard though. A game where many were worse than he was but still, comes right back to him.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 11:45:56 am by b_joseph »

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2014, 04:39:52 pm »
How does IT come back to Gerrard?

What is the legitimate basis for the accusation that people inappropriately and gratuitously single-out Gerrard for critique?

A poster, on the basis of not a whole lot, decides to claim that it was only, or primarily Gerrard who played well, showed heart, showed some fight, etc.

If it's pointed out that there's basically nothing to support such a claim, is it a case of "it always comes back to Gerrard, doesn't it?".
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Offline storkfoot

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Basle 1
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2014, 10:29:21 pm »
How does IT come back to Gerrard?

What is the legitimate basis for the accusation that people inappropriately and gratuitously single-out Gerrard for critique?

A poster, on the basis of not a whole lot, decides to claim that it was only, or primarily Gerrard who played well, showed heart, showed some fight, etc.

If it's pointed out that there's basically nothing to support such a claim, is it a case of "it always comes back to Gerrard, doesn't it?".

I must make a mental note to review all your "opinions" as to who plays well and who doesn't
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 10:33:19 pm by storkfoot »