Author Topic: We.  (Read 30037 times)

Offline guest

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We.
« on: December 21, 2009, 11:17:51 pm »
“The socialism I believe in is not really politics. It is a way of living. It is humanity. I believe the only way to live and to be truly successful is by collective effort, with everyone working for each other, everyone helping each other, and everyone having a share of the rewards at the end of the day. That might be asking a lot, but it's the way I see football and the way I see life.”

I know what you’re thinking. Not another Bill Shankly quotation. Not another call to arms to the digital masses. Not another series of statements struggling unsuccessfully to penetrate the mind of those who have already made theirs up on our manager, our owners, our support and our football club – for better or for worse.

It isn’t as it seems, though.

I quote Bill Shankly, not because we have just passed the 50th anniversary of his appointment, not because I’m making some convoluted comparison with our current manager, not even because he is our greatest manager ever (arguably).

I quote it because it is the best view on socialism I’ve ever read. It’s perfect. I don’t claim to be a political expert but it is a view I subscribe to. It is people helping other people with collective effort – and it’s doing so in football and life.

It isn’t football I’m really interested in. This brief exploration into the hefty concept socialism isn’t about how Aurelio and Benayoun should be helping each other or how the attitude of our captain needs to change. It’s about the fans. It’s about life.

The socialism Shankly believed in was not just limited to on the pitch. He recognised that vital link between the players and the fans, between the city and the football club. They worked with each other and helped each other. The football club would not have 18 league titles or 5 European Cups if it wasn’t for the city or the fans. The city wouldn’t be what it is now if it wasn’t for the football club. That’s unity, that’s collective effort – that’s Shankly’s socialism.

For me, an attack on our football club is an attack on our city. I listened to Portsmouth fans on Saturday urging the omniscient football deity to feed us and let us know it’s Christmas time. That extends further than football ‘banter’ to me – that’s the people of Portsmouth mocking the people of Liverpool. Years of stereotypes against the city regurgitated through the medium of football. And it’s not just Portsmouth. Newcastle, Aston Villa, Manchester United…all the country’s major cities, trying to shit at us at a great height.

But our away end, no matter what shit we get, shrug it off because we’re Liverpool. We represent our football club and we represent our city.

As far as I can remember – and I’m sure the esteemed older gentleman of yesteryear (hello Chopper) can think back even longer – Liverpool has been a target of ridicule and unfair treatment, both the city and the football club. The media and the mayor of dat der London may pass it off as self-pitying but that’s bollocks. Anyone who says the media doesn’t have an agenda against the city or the football club needs to look harder.

But we, the people of Liverpool and the fans of Liverpool Football Club, have never allowed them to hit that target. We’ve united, we’ve stood up, we’ve fought, clawed, battled and rose up against those who tried to harm us. We are a special breed who looks out for one another. We try our best to uphold our traditions. We go away to European cities as football fans and we treat our hosts with respect because we want the world to know why we are different and why what the media and the rest of the country say is a pile of shite.

We.

We are in the midst of another barrage from the media and the country who believe that their word is gospel. Probably the worst I’ve ever experienced. They are trying to humiliate our football club and humiliate our city. They are trying to humiliate the man who has done his best to understand the link between club and city since he’s been in charge. They are trying to humiliate the captain of our football club and therefore an ambassador of our city. They are trying to humiliate the fans who watch their football club every single week.

It does not matter if you want Rafael Benitez to be our manager because at the moment he is. He is part of Liverpool Football Club, he cares about Liverpool Football Club and therefore he cares about the city and its people. There has to be a collective effort to help him – he is one of us and we look out for our own because he’s not one of them.

It does not matter if you want Steven Gerrard to be our captain because at the moment he is. He is part of Liverpool Football Club, he cares about Liverpool Football Club and therefore he cares about the city and its people. There has to be a collective effort to help him – he is one of us and we look out for our own because he’s not one of them.

We as a football club, and therefore a city, must take this latest bombardment and not let us become an easy target. We’ve always fought against the shit we’ve been given and thrown it back twice as hard because we’re Liverpool.

It’s more than football, it’s a deep rooted agenda against us and I’ll be fucked if we’re going to let them win now.

Show Shanks that it wasn’t asking a lot and that his idea of socialism is still in this football club and it’s still in this city, even though the sport and society has changed a lot since then. At times like these, looking after each other is the only thing we can rely on and no matter what your personal belief is, we’ve won battles against them before with our unity, so stick together and get behind our city, our football club and those who have its best interests at heart.

I’m not saying if we do this we’ll win the title or we’ll win the cup. It’s much more important than that, it’s about upholding our integrity and not letting the bastards win. And to let Shankly’s legacy and hope live on:

“Above all, I would like to be remembered as a man who was selfless, who strove and worried so that others could share the glory, and who built up a family of people who could hold their heads up high and say, 'We're Liverpool'.”

Offline redrockydennis

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Re: We.
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 11:19:48 pm »
is right.
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes,
of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass.
It is terribly simple."

Offline xavidub

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Re: We.
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 11:21:28 pm »
Xavidub likes this
You have to try very hard to see what's going on in front of your face

Offline Promised to never post on RAWK again

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Re: We.
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 11:23:58 pm »

¡No pasarán!
The internet is a bad place - People like Mac Red are on it.

Offline John C

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Re: We.
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 11:25:20 pm »
Good philosophical read that L6.

Offline Una cerveza, por favor

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Re: We.
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 11:25:52 pm »
Brilliant work there L6. Time has come to stand up and be counted.
C'est la vie.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: We.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2009, 11:30:01 pm »
I'm Spartacus!

Excellent post that mate.  Ever considered writing professionally ;)

I agree with every word.  Standing together behind our team, our club, right or wrong.
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Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

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Re: We.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 11:31:46 pm »
Great stuff L6.
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Offline Diomedieocre

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Re: We.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2009, 11:31:58 pm »
Crakin, exactly how i feel at the moment.

the players need to man up, Rafa has to motivate them into a foaming,rabid frenzy, forget the owners for the time being, forget the cocks in the press....but never forget despite the results WE are Liverpool football club.

Offline Linton

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Re: We.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009, 11:32:09 pm »
If I remember correctly you are a writer, right? You are very good and that lifted my spirits a bit. Cheers! :)

Offline smig

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Re: We.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009, 11:32:29 pm »
Very well written and a very clever post. It doesn't change my opinions on Benitez but of course, it doesn't intend to. Posts like this signify a lot more than another rallying cry proclaiming this and that about the manager or certain players.
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Offline The Jackal

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Re: We.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 11:34:18 pm »
Top, top post L6. Agree with pretty much all of that. It's unfortunately a fact though that football has followed the trend of society in general towards monetarism and consumerism that grew out of the instant gratification and utter greed of the Thatcher years and was adapted specifially for football in some dark, foul lab at Sky HQ. Less so at our club perhpas, because of its location, because of its history - social and political. Even so there is that element in our fan-base, who pay lip-service to that collectivist spirit, and who will quote Shankly, but in reality they might as well be mouthing the words because they don't understand what they mean.

There are of course still those among us who still deeply believe in these ideals. Who don't go to the match simply to be 'entertained'. Who understand what it really means to be a part of this club. My hope is that those who do hold those beliefs can stand together and resist the ever-growing onslaught. But resist we must.
Blanco y en botella. Es leche, no?

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: We.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 11:46:12 pm »
Superb.

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Re: We.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 11:54:43 pm »
¡No pasarán!

You really are M_R aren't you?



L6... Merry Christmas.

Offline thegoodfella

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Re: We.
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2009, 12:00:38 am »

Offline robbie96

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Re: We.
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2009, 12:03:55 am »



Shameless BUMP! :wellin

Gripping stuff - very well written ..... we shall overcome ;D
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Re: We.
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2009, 12:03:59 am »
Excellent post, thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
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Re: We.
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2009, 12:05:13 am »
You really are M_R aren't you?

I hope you know the true meaning of what I have posted there.
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Re: We.
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2009, 12:08:45 am »
Quote
It does not matter if you want Rafael Benitez to be our manager because at the moment he is. He is part of Liverpool Football Club, he cares about Liverpool Football Club and therefore he cares about the city and its people. There has to be a collective effort to help him – he is one of us and we look out for our own because he’s not one of them.

It does not matter if you want Steven Gerrard to be our captain because at the moment he is. He is part of Liverpool Football Club, he cares about Liverpool Football Club and therefore he cares about the city and its people. There has to be a collective effort to help him – he is one of us and we look out for our own because he’s not one of them.
 

My favourite bit :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 12:10:18 am by gerrardspetal »
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Offline Master ScouseKnee

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Re: We.
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2009, 12:08:56 am »
Agree totally.
I think we as supporters should be more aware of our political and philosophical heritage. Theoretical ideologies don't get mentioned in mainstream political discussions in the UK and I think thats a shame because there are many flaws in our system. Our city, its history and the legacy of our club symbolise (although the reality maybe somewhat different) an alternative.

But no matter what I think, it is important that "we" stick together. That's the great thing about being associated with this club (and the city) is that feeling of community, that "we".

Bored of manufactured consent

Offline Stussy

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Re: We.
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 12:10:21 am »
For me, an attack on our football club is an attack on our city. I listened to Portsmouth fans on Saturday urging the omniscient football deity to feed us and let us know it’s Christmas time. That extends further than football ‘banter’ to me – that’s the people of Portsmouth mocking the people of Liverpool. Years of stereotypes against the city regurgitated through the medium of football. And it’s not just Portsmouth. Newcastle, Aston Villa, Manchester United…all the country’s major cities, trying to shit at us at a great height.


You understand that, I understand that, WE understand that, but so many of our supporters don't understand that, and that's because so many of our supporters don't know what it means and what it is about, and don't get the visceral truth of what Liverpool versus Everyone Else in England really means, what Liverpudlian identity is all about, and the history of the city for the last 50 years. Shanks understood it innately. Today we are a worldwide brand like coca-cola and all of this is to be put to one side, the emotional heart of what being from Liverpool is all about is a hinderance to shirt sales here there and everywhere.

We are in the midst of another barrage from the media and the country who believe that their word is gospel.

The problem is its not just the usual suspects in the media. The vitriol and contempt that some of our so-called supporters spout for Rafa personally in the media is shameful and disgusting. This is the man who won us the European Cup, took us to the brink of another, a man who has done so much for, and shown so much loyalty to our club. He is a good man, working under pressures that would tear apart most men. If you conclude that we would be better off without him, how you can articulate that without a modicum of respect and sorrow for seeing things that way, I don't know. But on radio phone ins, on various message boards, the snide, sneering comments being made about the man, revelling in the moment, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

Things ain't what they used to be.


"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Mighty Red

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Re: We.
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 12:10:28 am »
Agree 100%, more of this type of attitude please really enjoyable and positive.

We are Liverpool and we're in it together and forever!
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Offline humph77

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Re: We.
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2009, 12:11:36 am »
Great way of relieving the present frustrations when reading and agreeing with excellent post like that. cheers.

Offline KiNki

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Re: We.
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2009, 12:14:31 am »
bloody good read that L6. 

Wasn't another shanklyism "i want players to fight when there's nothing to fight for"? easily extendable to fans as well.     


Offline Alf

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Re: We.
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2009, 12:17:01 am »
Good work Kris.

Offline Squattopee

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Re: We.
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2009, 12:21:27 am »
Exacly what WE needed...

Thanks, great post.
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Offline Koplass

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Re: We.
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2009, 12:21:31 am »
Another well thought out post L6 Red.

I think with the gentrification and globalisation of football it’s clubs like Liverpool that it affects the most. Clubs with a foundation in working-class communities and Liverpool being arguably the most left-leaning city in England, our traditional fan base probably understands the meaning of loyalty, community and equality better than most. This has been stripped away a lot over the years, not just from Liverpool but from the football community at large. This idea that you should be able to just throw money at something and make it successful has gripped our league like a plague, just look to Man City and their treatment of Mark Hughes as an example. Hard-work and patience have been thrown out of the window in favour of glamour, money and the quick-fix.

Loyalty is seen as an archaic quality, someone like Jamie Carragher is considered a ‘throw-back’. Socialism is a concept that probably doesn’t get entertained by most football players or club owners, and less so the fans. We now welcome supporters from places where socialism is sneered at, and our owners are from a country where they are conditioned to believe that socialism is ‘evil’. It’s not just our club, but it’s more apparent at Liverpool than say Chelsea, who have always traditionally been the right-wing, tory boys of English football.

You outline the concept of standing together to affect a change, and I firmly believe that our support understands collective responsibility and power more than any other in this league. Not only has the Kop been held jointly responsible for some of the greatest results in our club’s history, but also lesser known achievements like contributing to Michael Shields’ freedom, removing Steven Cohen and his poison from the American airwaves, the soon to be released Hillsborough documentation, starting English football’s first supporter’s Union and convincing Rafa to stay in his job in the first place. Other fans laugh at us and our campaigns, but we always seem to get results.

Like you said, “We’ve always fought against the shit”, and we’ve been handed more than most, so why change now? It’s what makes us unique, it’s one of the most seductive characteristics of Liverpool (the club and the city), it’s what got us through Istanbul , through Olympiakos, through West Ham in the Cup final, through Hillsborough, through St. Etienne, through Heysel and Athens. Weaker clubs would be curled up in the foetal position right now, begging for mercy, but we’re stronger than that.

Unity, loyalty, fighting against adversity; it’s what we do. In the wake of Shankly’s anniversary we simply cannot give these ideals up.
"If ever a club reflected what made football the biggest sport in the country, it was Liverpool with its ground set in the bosom of the labouring working class being led by a man-of-the-people idealist in Bill Shankly."

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Re: We.
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2009, 12:23:24 am »
 ;)

Offline Jon G

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Re: We.
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2009, 12:24:21 am »
well played
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Offline SalisburyRed

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Re: We.
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2009, 12:44:48 am »
Cracking post L6!

Offline OOT'erConnie

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Re: We.
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2009, 12:51:53 am »
Shit that. :P

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Re: We.
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2009, 12:55:47 am »
Is right mate, fantastic post that.

Apart from one bit of course...yester-fuckin-year! you've made arl get feel even older now, ye bastard.
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Re: We.
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2009, 01:01:26 am »
Loved the post.

But will admit to a chuckle when the cheeky bastards sang 'Feed the Scousers'. :thumbup
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Offline redforlife

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Re: We.
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2009, 01:16:09 am »
Nice one L6, there's enough people out there queueing up to have pops at the club, the manager, the players without us doing the same.  WE will get through this.
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Offline Shankly!Shankly!

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Re: We.
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2009, 01:21:49 am »
beautiful! hope this gets through to the fans who only support LFC becuase they win a lot. with our bad form i have been continuously annoyed with many LFC ' fans' who slate the club. great post
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Re: We.
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2009, 01:57:46 am »
Inspirational read that Kris :wellin
Please take a look at my latest blog for theredmentv "Dispelling the Rodgers/Martinez myth" http://www.theredmentv.com/blog/p/263 All other blogs can be read at www.theredmentv.com/blog Let me know your thoughts

Offline Redwhiteandnotblue

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Re: We.
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2009, 02:21:55 am »
I am not a socialist per se but I could sign up yo your agenda any day.

Substitute Socialism for Christianity and I could preach your words.

When your backs are against the wall, as ours are now, what you need most is Unity. Unity between the fans, the management, the players and the directors. We cannot hope for unity simply between the directors let alone the directors and the rest of us. Yet we, the fans, the players and  the management can stand tall and united against the press, the nay-sayers, the doubters and the fair-weathers. This is our city. This is our club. This is our team. And we will support them, through thick and thin, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part. We will stand up and be counted. We will not cave in.

Offline Crouchy

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Re: We.
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2009, 02:31:16 am »
Brilliant work there L6. Time has come to stand up and be counted.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: We.
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2009, 02:37:38 am »
Great stuff mate.

The problem is it will only resonate with the minority in here.
The majority are more concerened with how the clubs current situation impacts on them personally.

There should be a new section in The Kop dedicated to them.....The dyslexic schizophrenia section.
For all those who firmly believe that there is an 'I' in 'We'
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Re: We.
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2009, 03:27:53 am »
Superb stuff L6