Author Topic: Players signed by Rafael Benitez  (Read 164378 times)

Offline Yellow Tarmac

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #120 on: November 2, 2009, 02:14:17 pm »
actually loosing to fulham is ok due to our injury crisis. like someone else said, its the earlier matches with our full squad (bar agger) that is coming to haunt rafa. tough luck in a tough league.

Add the screw ball snakeoil salesman at the helm, we might as well get drunk before attending matches in future.

Offline bathoz

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #121 on: November 2, 2009, 02:17:44 pm »
If I recall correctly, it was 1 million for ALT. Though I have no idea how that happened.

I'm at once shocked at how much money we spent that first season the Yanks were here, and similarly horrified at how little we've actually spent since.

Good post (if lazy on the formatting).
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Offline Classic goal

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #122 on: November 2, 2009, 02:19:06 pm »
The same people who moaned about having too much of a squad and not enough quality are now the ones berating the depth of the squad.

With no extra investment into the squad in the last two years he's made his decision to replace players going out and buy in quality, hence johnson and aqualani. He could have quite well spent the Alonso money on fillers and you'd still complain. Added that he expected to be able to spend on another attacker and a centre back and that money was robbed from him, what is he meant to do? Most people would have walked, at least he has the balls to carry on when there's enough clubs who'd gladly have him.

Offline Classic goal

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #123 on: November 2, 2009, 02:20:36 pm »
Add the screw ball snakeoil salesman at the helm, we might as well get drunk before attending matches in future.

We do :D

Offline theparrot

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #124 on: November 2, 2009, 02:24:57 pm »
I'm a Rafa fan and i hope he stays. However, when you are manager of this club you have pretty much got to get ever transfer right to be able to compete with the top sides. Generally he's done pretty well but players like Babel, Dossena, and to a certain extent Pennant and Keane have been pretty awful. If he had got these right we may well be in a different predictament now and he has to be held responsible to a certain extent. Every manager makes mistakes and I'll let him off for early errors like Morientes but he needs to get it right from now on. I'm hoping, perhaps naively, that now he has full control things will improve and  there will be no more Babels or Dossenas joining. Hopefully he'll be with us for many transfer windows yet.   

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #125 on: November 2, 2009, 02:26:10 pm »
So we're not blaming it on the Sunshine, wooo.... Moonlight wooo... Good times wooo....or even the Boogie.

We're blaming it on the Finance, woo!....Them Yanks, woo!....Rick Parry, woo!..... Doug Rougvie!
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #126 on: November 2, 2009, 02:26:17 pm »
. Every manager makes mistakes and I'll let him off for early errors like Morientes but he needs to get it right from now on.

Thats nice of you   ::)

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #127 on: November 2, 2009, 02:27:53 pm »
One question in regards to squad cost, wages etc……why was it barely a blip on the excuse radar last season?
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #128 on: November 2, 2009, 02:28:50 pm »
when he goes, more people will realise how important he was than they realise now

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #129 on: November 2, 2009, 02:29:55 pm »
One question in regards to squad cost, wages etc……why was it barely a blip on the excuse radar last season?
It isn't an excuse. Last season we punched above our weight and were much luckier with injuries, bar Agger.

Offline thegoodfella

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #130 on: November 2, 2009, 02:37:58 pm »
To me, Liverpool is more of a mom-and-pop store trying to compete with the super stores that have opened up around it. We were doing great when we competed with other mom-n-pop stores but this financial difference is breaking our back. ManCity is banging on the door now, it took them one year to stitch together an all star team and everyone knows that they will be more then happy to spend another 100 or so million over the next two transfer windows. They've got Adebayor, Tevez, Robinho, Santa Cruz and Bellamy (all mercenary twats in my opinion but talented twats nonetheless), and we got just one Torres. We cannot have the luxury of 30million players on the bench.

People think I've got my head in the sand when I say that we can't compete with the scum over the long run. Look at last year they say, we almost caught them. I know for sure that if we were ahead come this January, they would've opened their wallets and throw some cash around to stack up the odds against us. I was cartwheeling when Chelsea got the transfer ban, I thought with them out of the money spender list and an ageing team, we wouldn't suffer too much, but they've got the ban suspended since.

The best we can do is to stay in top four in my honest and frank opinion. In my opinion, it is better then having a sugardaddy owner that spends millions on mercenaries, at least this way, we keep our souls.

Offline TommySmithsLiver

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #131 on: November 2, 2009, 02:39:33 pm »
It isn't an excuse. Last season we punched above our weight and were much luckier with injuries, bar Agger.

Sadly this season does make that look like that's true, didn't carra say in an interview the last year that this was the first time he could remember when we were actually in the title race towards the end of the season since Roy Evans was managing him?  We are better now and that is thanks to Rafa but has last season given us unrealistically high expectance?  Is the "wenger style patence" thread raising a very good point?

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #132 on: November 2, 2009, 02:39:55 pm »
Punched above our weight? This squad has been in the hands of one of the best coaches in the world, spent our money pretty wisely, started off about 3rd or 4th best in the league in 04/05 so if our aim was to progress a little every year I can hardly think 5 years later, finishing 2nd or even 3rd is punching above our weight.

Our current form is just a blip on an otherwise great term of leadership at the club. There is so many intangibles at this club that explain why 2nd place last year was not punching above our weight. Unless you are an accountant and only place value on the bottom line when in fact what makes a great club often can be found in the foundations built at this place years before any Arab feck found his wallet. That foundation is priceless.
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Offline SeanF

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #133 on: November 2, 2009, 02:39:58 pm »
Superb post. 

Absolutely spot on and agree with everything you say. 

Look back to 2004, if Chelsea had got Rafa, and we had got Mourinho.  None of our great memories of last 5 seasons would of happened.
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #134 on: November 2, 2009, 02:43:28 pm »
One question in regards to squad cost, wages etc……why was it barely a blip on the excuse radar last season?
It wasn't and still isn't imo ..... 
It isn't an excuse. Last season we punched above our weight and were much luckier with injuries, bar Agger.
Can't agree we punched over our weight ... unlucky imo not to win it.

Offline TommySmithsLiver

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #135 on: November 2, 2009, 02:45:05 pm »
Superb post. 

Absolutely spot on and agree with everything you say. 

Look back to 2004, if Chelsea had got Rafa, and we had got Mourinho.  None of our great memories of last 5 seasons would of happened.

Disagree, Jose might not have won the champs league with us but he is a top rate manager and I fancy there would have been more domestic glory.

Offline Old No7

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #136 on: November 2, 2009, 02:45:34 pm »
It isn't an excuse. Last season we punched above our weight and were much luckier with injuries, bar Agger.

in financial terms last season we punched above our weight, in financial terms this year we should be about 5th

Offline Paul JH

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #137 on: November 2, 2009, 02:46:45 pm »
Every manager makes mistakes and I'll let him off for early errors like Morientes but he needs to get it right from now on.

How kind, I'm sure he'll be delighted ...

Is this Morientes who was one of the best strikers in Europe at the time and every man woman and child was excited about us signing?
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Offline McManamanamanaman

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #138 on: November 2, 2009, 02:48:26 pm »
It isn't an excuse. Last season we punched above our weight and were much luckier with injuries, bar Agger.

Funny that. I seemed to remember Torres and Gerrard both missing a fair few games. Oh yes here we are - - stats - they only played together in 12 league games last season.

As for punching above our weight. What justification do you have for that? The way I saw it, we were a couple of sloppy draws away from winning the league and so therefore underachieved.

Offline SquirmyRooter

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #139 on: November 2, 2009, 02:48:50 pm »
All this 'lack of funds to compete' shite would carry more weight if the 6 teams we'd lost to in the last 7 had spent more than us and the one team we beat (comfortably) had spent less.

Some questions need to be asked as to how the same group of players that performed so abjectly at Sunderland and Fulham can manage to pull their finger out for the United game.

As it is we gat the same old faces using the same tired old arguments to defend a manager they decided was a genius long before he'd deserved the mantle.
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Offline Paul JH

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #140 on: November 2, 2009, 02:50:40 pm »
Some questions need to be asked as to how the same group of players that performed so abjectly at Sunderland and Fulham can manage to pull their finger out for the United game.

To be fair, the same team that played against United wasn't on the pitch against Fulham.
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Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #141 on: November 2, 2009, 02:53:29 pm »
when he goes, more people will realise how important he was than they realise now
If or when he goes, who will make that decision? as owners there relationship is at best frosty how could they sit across a table and agree on anything and would it be fan influenced? from what I've read
from people they don't listen to us fans. Who or what will cause him to go?
For the record i do want him to stay, I'm just not as black or white regarding the Boss.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #142 on: November 2, 2009, 02:55:00 pm »
Punched above our weight? This squad has been in the hands of one of the best coaches in the world, spent our money pretty wisely, started off about 3rd or 4th best in the league in 04/05 so if our aim was to progress a little every year I can hardly think 5 years later, finishing 2nd or even 3rd is punching above our weight.

Our current form is just a blip on an otherwise great term of leadership at the club. There is so many intangibles at this club that explain why 2nd place last year was not punching above our weight. Unless you are an accountant and only place value on the bottom line when in fact what makes a great club often can be found in the foundations built at this place years before any Arab feck found his wallet. That foundation is priceless.
By punching above our weight, I mean that we managed to finish second despite being unable to compete with our rivals on the transfer front and despite the fucking circus that comes with our ownership. That's all, and I don't disagree with anything you've said just now.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #143 on: November 2, 2009, 02:55:48 pm »
It wasn't and still isn't imo .....  Can't agree we punched over our weight ... unlucky imo not to win it.
Yep I agree. And that's despite the issues we have, which is all I meant.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #144 on: November 2, 2009, 02:58:18 pm »

Why wasn't money an issue in Spain?
87:13

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #145 on: November 2, 2009, 02:58:27 pm »
As for punching above our weight. What justification do you have for that? The way I saw it, we were a couple of sloppy draws away from winning the league and so therefore underachieved.
Please see my explanations above...I only mean that we achieved second place despite the problems we had behind the scenes and a lack of money. Good point re Gerrard and Torres injuries by the way.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #146 on: November 2, 2009, 02:59:25 pm »
Why wasn't money an issue in Spain?
Rafa at Valencia? It was...I have a feeling I'm whoooooshing myself here.....

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #147 on: November 2, 2009, 03:03:27 pm »
Yep I agree. And that's despite the issues we have, which is all I meant.

;)

The issues last season to me was the amount of times Gerrard and Torres played together and all the draws ..... im one who just likes to look at our squad and say can we do it .... i said yes last season and yes this season if we could keep close to utd and get Nemo up and running by then with Torres and Gerrard both fit and playing as much as possible together ...
One or two more quality additions imo would have made it certs .... but still think 28-1 is great value .. if we can get our team back together after the international break after beating the brummies Monday night .

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #148 on: November 2, 2009, 03:04:31 pm »
Calling posters names etc shows you up.

Bladder all day long..the squad is weak and there are serious problems in almost every area of the squad.

None of the arguments put foreward excuses the weakness of the squad.

OK. Without spending any more money than Rafa has, how would you have done things differently? There are weaknesses in the squad because the very finite resources have been funnelled into vital areas.

Retrospection allows you to nix certain transfers - no manager does not make some transfer mistakes. But the general squad balances are fairly easily defensible.

Offline thegoodfella

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #149 on: November 2, 2009, 03:05:01 pm »
;)

The issues last season to me was the amount of times Gerrard and Torres played together and all the draws ..... im one who just likes to look at our squad and say can we do it .... i said yes last season and yes this season if we could keep close to utd and get Nemo up and running by then with Torres and Gerrard both fit and playing as much as possible together ...
One or two more quality additions imo would have made it certs .... but still think 28-1 is great value .. if we can get our team back together after the international break after beating the brummies Monday night .

Amen to that my friend, Amen!

Offline i6uuaq

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #150 on: November 2, 2009, 03:08:06 pm »
Calling posters names etc shows you up.

Bladder all day long..the squad is weak and there are serious problems in almost every area of the squad.

None of the arguments put foreward excuses the weakness of the squad.



because, obviously, there's no one to blame besides the manager.

because, obviously, you've compared our manager on quantifiable deliverables against other managers around, taking into account their respective starting positions.

because, no doubt, SAF or Jose Mourinho would have been able to take a team boasting the likes of Djimi Traore, Igor Biscan, and Milan Baros as first choice starters, and transform it into a team boasting the likes of Glen Johnson, Mascherano, and Torres within 5 years on a shoestring budget.




no one is arguing with you that the squad isn't good enough. but for you to blame the manager without refuting all the points which others have brought forward....

you claim to have refuted them, but the sum of your argument is "That's no excuse." Honestly. Perhaps I shall go and write my honours thesis exploring the surface electronic states of some exotic semiconductor material by saying "God made it so", as my geography teacher used to do.

Congratulations for winning the argument.
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Offline keeno8

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #151 on: November 2, 2009, 03:10:19 pm »
Regardless of what he has spent his distribution of the the money throughout the squad has been poor, to let Bellamy and Crouch (picking those as the 2 best & most established strikers we've had through the doors recently) go based on the formation you play is a poor decision. Torres is our only recognised striker now and its a long way until next summer (Liverpool dont get money in January)

Im a Rafa fan bottom line and fair enough he's had to deal with a lot of ownership issues, but his mistakes are what we're paying for now. As good a player as our new no.2 is, did we really need a £17m right back? why didn't that money go on trying to get David Villa or Juan Mata? that's my issue at the minute.
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Offline i6uuaq

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #152 on: November 2, 2009, 03:14:50 pm »
Calling posters names etc shows you up.

Bladder all day long..the squad is weak and there are serious problems in almost every area of the squad.

None of the arguments put foreward excuses the weakness of the squad.



bladder all day long... your argument is weak and there are serious problems in almost every area of your post.

none of the arguments put forth excuse the weakness of your posts.



I am trying to make a point here using irony - making such posts and comments are nigh on useless, contribute nothing to the discussion, and do not show the slightest hint of intellect or reasoned thought behind it. In stark contrast to the OP, which was painstakingly-researched, and the other RAWKites here who are actually trying to get comparative data from Chelsea and Manc fans to see if Benitez has really done that badly.

I bet you slag me off saying that statistics can prove anything, and that we do too much blabbering about when the problem is clearly the manager. But I honestly hope you prove me wrong.
"I've not seen it and I'm not being Arsene Wenger," Dalglish said. "If there's something untoward then I am sure the governing body will act appropriately."

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #153 on: November 2, 2009, 03:15:16 pm »
Regardless of what he has spent his distribution of the the money throughout the squad has been poor, to let Bellamy and Crouch (picking those as the 2 best & most established strikers we've had through the doors recently) go based on the formation you play is a poor decision. Torres is our only recognised striker now and its a long way until next summer (Liverpool dont get money in January)

Im a Rafa fan bottom line and fair enough he's had to deal with a lot of ownership issues, but his mistakes are what we're paying for now. As good a player as our new no.2 is, did we really need a £17m right back? why didn't that money go on trying to get David Villa or Juan Mata? that's my issue at the minute.

because when he made those decisions he didnt think his transfer budget this summer would be fucking zero

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #154 on: November 2, 2009, 03:17:43 pm »
Regardless of what he has spent his distribution of the the money throughout the squad has been poor, to let Bellamy and Crouch (picking those as the 2 best & most established strikers we've had through the doors recently) go based on the formation you play is a poor decision. Torres is our only recognised striker now and its a long way until next summer (Liverpool dont get money in January)

Im a Rafa fan bottom line and fair enough he's had to deal with a lot of ownership issues, but his mistakes are what we're paying for now. As good a player as our new no.2 is, did we really need a £17m right back? why didn't that money go on trying to get David Villa or Juan Mata? that's my issue at the minute.

as has been mentioned umpteenth times, Crouch wanted to go. If we had hung on to him, he would have run his contract down a la Pennant and we'd have lost him for nothing.

Bellamy looks good now, but most of us were glad to be rid of him for a profit.

As has been mentioned previously, we only managed to get Johnson because we had some leverage with Portsmouth with cash they owed us - this was not the case for any other club. Quite likely we didn't have enough cash upfront, and so had to use the loan for a bargaining tool
"I've not seen it and I'm not being Arsene Wenger," Dalglish said. "If there's something untoward then I am sure the governing body will act appropriately."

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #155 on: November 2, 2009, 03:18:11 pm »
wise up keano ffs.
common knowledge he bought johnson thinking more money was available.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #156 on: November 2, 2009, 03:20:08 pm »
Regardless of what he has spent his distribution of the the money throughout the squad has been poor, to let Bellamy and Crouch (picking those as the 2 best & most established strikers we've had through the doors recently) go based on the formation you play is a poor decision. Torres is our only recognised striker now and its a long way until next summer (Liverpool dont get money in January)
Hello? If we didn't sell Bellamy we couldn't have afforded Torres. It was an upgrade, nothing to do with formation. Crouch was not prepared to stay, fuck all we could do about that.
Given your username I'm surprised you didn't concentrate on Keane. Bought, flapped about, missed sitters and moaned to the press, was sold and then we didn't get to use the £16m for a replacement. Fuck all we could do about that too, bar possibly not buy Keane in the first place...

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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #157 on: November 2, 2009, 03:22:27 pm »
And the fact we needed up our 'home grown' quota. Neither Mata or Villa are home grown.
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #158 on: November 2, 2009, 03:22:55 pm »
Disagree, Jose might not have won the champs league with us but he is a top rate manager and I fancy there would have been more domestic glory.

there would have been no open chequebook here though.
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Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #159 on: November 2, 2009, 03:29:09 pm »
Why wasn't money an issue in Spain?


Rafa took over from Hector Cuper who had built a fantastic squad and he was effectively starting from scratch with a few exceptions when he took over the reigns here.