Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 266404 times)

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1000 on: January 13, 2011, 09:53:44 am »
Unfortunately there seems to be some right beauts commenting on the above story though

"Lucas is nowhere compared to even Charlie Adams"

"Lucas first? No way! Not top 3 yesterday at least. Raul M. did decent yesterday, and Torres played pretty well. Lucas was sloppy and is never consistent with his performances"

I really can't believe how many people still don't rate this lad  :butt

Just awful, inaccurate to the max, both of them.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1001 on: January 13, 2011, 11:49:27 am »
Right after the game he looked very gutted, kicked the ball away, very annoyed. He was one of the few taking responsibilty yesterday.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline MaschHead

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1002 on: January 13, 2011, 11:52:10 am »
Just awful, inaccurate to the max, both of them.

Our 'fan-base' (hate this word) needs as much as an overhaul as our squad.

Offline hedger

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1003 on: January 13, 2011, 12:00:37 pm »
What? How exactly is Lucas 'the same kind of player' as Meireles? And how on earth are either or both of them 'the same kind of player' as Poulsen?

not the same players but as a partnership in CM not good or strong enough for the top level in the EPL. That is a fact and until we realise this we will continue to get chinned by teams like Blackpool.
Lucas is a good lad - has developed into a far better player than he was BUT in all honesty he will not worry any team in the EPL. Decent squad player
Meireles - again a decent enough player but doesnt hurt teams imo
Poulsen - well it doesnt need to be said

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1004 on: January 14, 2011, 02:23:46 am »
I think  that it is time to close this thread. When I opened it I hoped it will not turn like the last pages. 

But you  have made your verdict,  heaven helps us all 
I rest my case

Offline Gedis

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1005 on: January 14, 2011, 02:28:24 am »
When I think about our squad, Lucas somehow is on the positive side of our players. IMO we should keep these kind of players and release all those don't give a f**kers and replace them with perspective 20-23 aged footballers.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1006 on: January 14, 2011, 11:35:05 am »
When I think about our squad, Lucas somehow is on the positive side of our players. IMO we should keep these kind of players and release all those don't give a f**kers and replace them with perspective 20-23 aged footballers.
Interested to know why you felt the need for the word 'somehow'?

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1007 on: January 14, 2011, 11:43:57 am »
Lucas is a good lad - has developed into a far better player than he was BUT in all honesty he will not worry any team in the EPL. Decent squad player

That's how I see him. I don't think he's up to being a long-term option in midfield.

Despite him being one of the Liverpool players to receive the most flak in the past, now he's suddenly flavour of the month and can do no wrong and any criticism, no matter how small or remote, ends in those offering that opinion being slated.

Why is this? Why has he suddenly gone full circle?

Are people feeling guilty for slagging him so much now that he looks decent?
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Offline Roy of the rovers

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1008 on: January 14, 2011, 11:55:51 am »
If we keep Lucas, then we cant keep miereless or poulson. All of them are exactly the same kind of player, decent defense (lucas wins), decent attack(raul wins), one paced, no real power or drive.

I think we'll lose Poulsen at any price if we can find anyone who will pay his wages

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1009 on: January 14, 2011, 11:58:54 am »
Why is this? Why has he suddenly gone full circle?

Are people feeling guilty for slagging him so much now that he looks decent?
For most of us it hasn't. Many of him rated him from the start, so no volte face there.

Others have slowly come to appreciate the improvement in him, and admit they were wrong to write him off.

No-one is saying he is world class. This is the biggest frustration about Lucas threads, the detractors go completely over the top about praise for the player, when in fact all anyone has said is that he's starting to play well, improve etc, and that he's highly rated by the Brazil manager, is the right age, has the right attitude. For some reason the detractors read these quite reasonable opinions as 'Lucas is world class and the bestest player ever ever' and start laying into people for something they never said.

It then descends into pointless discussion of which other teams he might get into, which is the absolute definition of stupidity and a genuine sign that someone doesn't understand football.

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1010 on: January 14, 2011, 12:04:47 pm »
I would take 15m for Lucas.

Offline Cadno

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1011 on: January 14, 2011, 12:17:52 pm »
I would take 15m for Lucas.
But why get rid of a 15m player when we are cronically lacking quality squad depth?? IMO he should not be for sale at all.  He is one of the only players to come out of the last 18 months with any credit at all in terms of performance and attitude
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Offline saintslfc13

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1012 on: January 14, 2011, 12:22:05 pm »
I would take 15m for Lucas.

15m is a fair valuation for him right now but he's exactly the type of player we shouldn't be selling. He's come through a lot to finally have the respect some denied him at first. Never hides, and is our best performer this season. (arguably last season as well) The man also keeps getting better, if we had any type of stability this season then I think everyone would be surprised (even those of us who have always rated him, like myself) at what he can do. Unfortunately for us and him we got shot of Rafa (which is an issue that doesn't need to be discussed here), hired Roy who changed everything about the way we played, then when him and Meireles looked like clicking at CM it was fucked off at first chance by Roy. Then Raul got hurt and consequently his form has dipped, leaving Lucas to do more to make our team work, without a partner firing on all cylinders. Now we have Kenny, who I think will encourage him to attack more and gain confidence, but also employs yet another new system.

Lucas is the quintessential "Liverpool player", works hard, does pretty much everything well (finishing excepted but that will come with confidence), and doesn't bitch about anything. I stated in another thread that if there is an outfield player in our squad that deserves to take the armband off of Gerrard, it's not Carra, Agger, Kuyt or Torres. It's Lucas. He rarely looks uncomfortable, almost always makes the right decision and reads the game exceptionally well. The only other player who's been like him in our team this season is Reina, in terms of always doing the most he can to help us win. When you add the fact that his age means he'll keep improving and probably won't come close to his full potential for another 2-4 years then I think you'd have be insane to let him go.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1013 on: January 14, 2011, 12:32:30 pm »
One thing in all this is that all players make mistakes.  If Lucas made one it was blown out of porportion.  That kind of criticism has lessened but not because mistakes have dissapeared, it has more to do with having a new scapegoat.
Absolutely. Whether it's in a pub or at the ground, on here, twitter, wherever, there are many people who greet a misplaced pass from, say, Gerrard in a very different way to the exact same from Lucas.

'Unlucky Stevie' vs. 'For fuck's sake Lucas'.

Drives me insane.

Offline ScouseinDK

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1014 on: January 14, 2011, 12:51:30 pm »
Poulsen out, Stevie behind Torres, Cole on the left, Kuyt on the right  and LUCAS and Mierles in mf. Jesus H christ, it´s just that simple. Lucas and Mierles proved themselves to be a good partnership before stevie got back from injury, why not use it again now while he´s out again?? Unless Kenny was putting Poulsen in the shop window the other night, I just dont understand what the hell the useless gimp was doing there. Lucas was doing a fairly decent job, making himself available, running back in defence, getting in on the attack when he could. I for one think we should keep the fella, and not as a squad player, but as part of a revamped midfield- the only question for me, is who should partner Lucas? Mierles or someone who doesnt throw the ball away all the time?

Offline myrlas

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1015 on: January 14, 2011, 12:57:50 pm »
Absolutely. Whether it's in a pub or at the ground, on here, twitter, wherever, there are many people who greet a misplaced pass from, say, Gerrard in a very different way to the exact same from Lucas.

'Unlucky Stevie' vs. 'For fuck's sake Lucas'.

Drives me insane.

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Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1016 on: January 14, 2011, 01:00:00 pm »
Interesting that at our lowest ebb in fucking ages the two most popular threads are the Lucas and Kuyt ones.

What have those two bastard owners done to our support.

From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1017 on: January 14, 2011, 01:39:02 pm »
Nobody would pay £15m for Lucas though.

That's not to say he isn't worth that, which I personally don't believe he is, but other teams are more likely to pay around £6m-£8m.

He still clearly divides opinion though, so I don't think it's fair for those that claim people are wrong not to have full belief and faith in him.

I am delighted that he's improved and hope he keeps doing so, but I don't think he's close to Mascherano, Alonso or Hamann - and that is the standard we have become used to in recent years.
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Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1018 on: January 14, 2011, 01:40:41 pm »
Absolutely. Whether it's in a pub or at the ground, on here, twitter, wherever, there are many people who greet a misplaced pass from, say, Gerrard in a very different way to the exact same from Lucas.

'Unlucky Stevie' vs. 'For fuck's sake Lucas'.

Drives me insane.

Gerrard has been a major component in us winning several trophies. He has scored incredibly crucial and important goals during his time with us.

Lucas has no such achievements to fall back on.

So people are always going to be willing to make allowances for the achiever and hero rather than the guy who has struggled to perform until the last year or so.
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Offline Roger Federer

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1019 on: January 14, 2011, 01:55:18 pm »
Interesting that at our lowest ebb in fucking ages the two most popular threads are the Lucas and Kuyt ones.

What have those two bastard owners done to our support.
You're probably right when it comes to Kuyt, but I think the threads on Skrtel, Poulsen, Johnson, and Jovanovic, among others, has seen more activity, and negativity, than this one. Edit: Atleast since our last game (but maybe you meant overall? You're perhaps right after all then)

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1020 on: January 14, 2011, 02:14:27 pm »
Gerrard has been a major component in us winning several trophies. He has scored incredibly crucial and important goals during his time with us.

Lucas has no such achievements to fall back on.

So people are always going to be willing to make allowances for the achiever and hero rather than the guy who has struggled to perform until the last year or so.
And therein lies the problem. Well summarised. Whatever the motivation for excusing a player's mistakes while castigating another player for the same mistake, it's counter-productive. Extremely so.

I don't mean Gerrard should be criticised for his mistakes - I mean Lucas shouldn't be. Especially since they are rare occurrences.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1021 on: January 14, 2011, 02:22:38 pm »
Interesting that at our lowest ebb in fucking ages the two most popular threads are the Lucas and Kuyt ones.

What have those two bastard owners done to our support.


Why do I feel like this a cheeky attempt to hitch the clapped-out Kuyt cart to the majestic Lucas horse? 
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Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1022 on: January 14, 2011, 02:27:03 pm »
Nobody would pay £15m for Lucas though.

That's not to say he isn't worth that, which I personally don't believe he is, but other teams are more likely to pay around £6m-£8m.

He still clearly divides opinion though, so I don't think it's fair for those that claim people are wrong not to have full belief and faith in him.

I am delighted that he's improved and hope he keeps doing so, but I don't think he's close to Mascherano, Alonso or Hamann - and that is the standard we have become used to in recent years.

I agree with the improvement part. I think we have begun to take Lucas' standard as 'very good', which in all honesty is a little worrying. Credit to the guy for improving and all that, his good games are decent, but i've never seen him have a major impact, nor have i seen him have a really excellent game. Maybe it's to do with his position, but i just think we should have a 'really great' player to put there as a permanent fixture.

Offline Lark

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1023 on: January 14, 2011, 02:33:15 pm »
I agree with the improvement part. I think we have begun to take Lucas' standard as 'very good', which in all honesty is a little worrying. Credit to the guy for improving and all that, his good games are decent, but i've never seen him have a major impact, nor have i seen him have a really excellent game. Maybe it's to do with his position, but i just think we should have a 'really great' player to put there as a permanent fixture.

Well, he was great against Chelsea and during the last 18 months he's been having some very good games against the top 4 clubs. I also think he was great against Blackpool but unfortunately the rest of the middfield had quite a poor day.

The thing is, he plays holding midfiled. If he's having a great day we shouldn't see it.

Offline AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1024 on: January 14, 2011, 02:36:56 pm »
And therein lies the problem. Well summarised. Whatever the motivation for excusing a player's mistakes while castigating another player for the same mistake, it's counter-productive. Extremely so.

I don't mean Gerrard should be criticised for his mistakes - I mean Lucas shouldn't be. Especially since they are rare occurrences.

Also, some people just follow whatever the media say.

Personally, I just don't think Lucas is that good. I think he's improved and has been one of our most consistent and better players this season. But for his ability, he should be one of our 'lesser' players with superior talents around him. But our standards on the pitch have slipped and he has become one of the more admirable performers.

He's got no competition for his place from Poulsen though!
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1025 on: January 14, 2011, 02:39:17 pm »
Also, some people just follow whatever the media say.

Personally, I just don't think Lucas is that good.
An ironic juxtaposition if ever I saw one. ;)

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1026 on: January 14, 2011, 02:41:36 pm »
Well, he was great against Chelsea and during the last 18 months he's been having some very good games against the top 4 clubs. I also think he was great against Blackpool but unfortunately the rest of the middfield had quite a poor day.

The thing is, he plays holding midfiled. If he's having a great day we shouldn't see it.

Our midfield has hardly been a defensive bastion this year, despite playing defensively under Hodgson. From my understanding holding midfields are supposed to be the point of distribution from deep areas, and frankly thats been pretty sub-par this season.

But new manager, new tactics, so lets see how he does under a more attacking midfield.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1027 on: January 14, 2011, 02:43:07 pm »
From my understanding holding midfields are supposed to be the point of distribution from deep areas, and frankly thats been pretty sub-par this season.
Disagree. Distribution has been fine, what has happened next has not been up to scratch.

Offline thegoodfella

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1028 on: January 14, 2011, 02:43:59 pm »
Personally, I just don't think Lucas is that good.

Good to know you have made up your mind, now stick to your opinion and stop posting in this thread.

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1029 on: January 14, 2011, 02:46:26 pm »
Disagree. Distribution has been fine, what has happened next has not been up to scratch.

I'm not so sure. Whenever we're under a bit of pressure, we really struggle to get it out our half.

Offline Lark

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1030 on: January 14, 2011, 02:53:38 pm »
I'm not so sure. Whenever we're under a bit of pressure, we really struggle to get it out our half.

That has mainly been beacuse of the lack of movment in the team. Distrubition is fine, offensive creativity off the ball isn't.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1031 on: January 14, 2011, 03:20:55 pm »
I agree with the improvement part. I think we have begun to take Lucas' standard as 'very good', which in all honesty is a little worrying. Credit to the guy for improving and all that, his good games are decent, but i've never seen him have a major impact, nor have i seen him have a really excellent game. Maybe it's to do with his position, but i just think we should have a 'really great' player to put there as a permanent fixture.

When an assessment of a player only goes as far as to deem him good, good enough, not good enough, really great, there isn't really much to discuss. By the way, a universally acclaimed Liverpool great was 4th choice CM in the 87-88 season.
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Offline Dabudah

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1032 on: January 14, 2011, 03:36:25 pm »
I've never been a fan of Lucas but saying that, all through the hardest times of the club with the Owners changing and Roy coming in, he has always kept his head down and worked hard, and I dare say, improved.  It could have been due to the fact that everyones attention and anger was diverted to the owners and manager, but he's been able to concentrate on his game and gradually improve as time has progressed without fear of being booed and slated at every turn. 

His performance against Blackpool was back to his old self, getting the ball unmarked and then panicking to lay it off to someone marked 5 yards away, and still putting it 3 yards short.  He lacked confidence and didn't seem to know where to put himself during the game.  Could be due to the change in tactics, from all out defensive under Hodgson to more attacking play under Kenny, or it could be that he knows focus is solely on the players now and possibly tried too hard to impress.  Either way, no one really performed well at Blackpool so I'ts hard to judge on this alone.

Realistically though, I don't think he is good enough for the squad of the future unless there is a dramatic improvement in his game, but you have to admire his persistence and resillience to the abuse he's had while at LFC, and all through this he has pulled on the shirt and worked his arse off, not always effectively, but, he always puts in the effort, which at times like these you need.

So as for selling him, yes definately, but not until the summer at the very earliest, possibly give him one more season under stable management and see if he can settle and improve.  If he doesn't then fair enough, we should be able to add an extra £1m - £2m to his price with a semi decent season and part ways, or with some stability then we may see him develop true brazillian flair and he may flourish and be a diamond in the rough.  Either way, there are other players in the squad that are equally as bad, some slightly better than Lucas, but very few have the same drive and determination to become a regular in the squad and will give all for that place. 

Lucas has shown the desire and passion to pull on that shirt for every game he has played, knowing full well he will take a load of abuse if he doesn't astound, but he keeps coming back, he doesn't let up and has shown true determination not only to improve and make himself a regular within the squad but to also try and win over the fans regardless how much abuse he has taken.  This for me makes him a true LFC player as I can't imagine many others in the squad that could take the same abuse and still look forward to pulling on the shirt each game.  I am still not his biggest fan on the pitch, I feel he does need to improve drastically and become far more consistent in his performance, but this may change with confidence and stability.
Previously I was quick to slate Lucas each and every game but there are some players I would prefer to be sold way before him, soley due to his work rate and passion for the club.  Due to this I'm gonna lay off the lad for a few months at least (well see what happens if the red mist falls again while playing shit :P), give him some time to develop and hopefully he can prove me and many others wrong.

Poulsen on the other hand I'd sell for an expired McNasty's voucher.

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1033 on: January 14, 2011, 03:37:15 pm »
Why do I feel like this a cheeky attempt to hitch the clapped-out Kuyt cart to the majestic Lucas horse? 

Rumbled... :)
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1034 on: January 14, 2011, 04:16:18 pm »
If we keep Lucas, then we cant keep miereless or poulson. All of them are exactly the same kind of player, decent defense (lucas wins), decent attack(raul wins), one paced, no real power or drive.

fuck if thats true i need some specs
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1035 on: January 14, 2011, 04:23:46 pm »
If we keep Lucas, then we cant keep miereless or poulson. All of them are exactly the same kind of player
What the hell.

Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1036 on: January 14, 2011, 04:25:17 pm »
What the hell.

look at the nickname mate.

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1037 on: January 14, 2011, 04:26:36 pm »
When an assessment of a player only goes as far as to deem him good, good enough, not good enough, really great, there isn't really much to discuss. By the way, a universally acclaimed Liverpool great was 4th choice CM in the 87-88 season.

I'm not quite sure i understand your point?

Offline lafuriaroja

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1038 on: January 14, 2011, 04:28:13 pm »
Why should we keep Lucas? Because he's fucking boss. End of.

Oh, and he'll be one of the top midfielders in football by the next world cup.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1039 on: January 14, 2011, 04:32:27 pm »
I'm not quite sure i understand your point?

Exactly.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258