Author Topic: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.  (Read 7243 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« on: January 16, 2005, 04:53:33 pm »
It's difficult to pick yourself up after losing at home to United; all the more annoying as this narrow defeat came on the back of definite improvements in recent weeks and great performances in the big games at Anfield this season –– somehow it was set up for us to win, and we flunked it.

Many have said it was a great chance to beat United, given their absentees; of course, I'd have preferred to be playing them with Alonso, Kewell, Finnan, Kirkland, Smicer and Cisse in our 16; and with a fully match-fit Pellegrino and Morientes. Ultimately it came down to superior experience and depth in the United squad, and on their part, a huge slice of luck.

Of course, from our point of view it's not bad luck when your keeper fails to save an easy shot –– although as a manager you cannot legislate for such sloppiness. (And with just an untested rookie in reserve, you cannot easily make changes. You grin, through gritted teeth, and bear it). While you expect your keeper to make such a basic save, Dudek is not the first to miss a tame shot; even the great Ray Clemence let Kenny Dalglish's mishit shot slip through his grasp, when England played Scotland in 1978.

Having said that, when Manchester United's keeper did that that very thing –– failing to catch an easy shot –– in their previous league game, they were rescued by the officals completely missing the clear goal. So they came to Anfield unbeaten and having not conceded in six games; when they should have lost to that late Spurs 'goal'. 'Thems the breaks'; somehow United seem to get them. I'm looking forward to seeing a few go out way.

It was the same with Phillip Neville's handball for yet another 'non' penalty for us in a big match (all of the big three have now got away with a blatant penalty offence at Anfield). Much was made of the ball striking Carra's hand against Norwich, but Carra's hands never moved and were by his side. Although Neville didn't intentionally handle the ball, he did jump to block a cross with his hands positioned high up in the air like a goalkeeper. Surely this is not a natural way to defend, and raising hands like that is obviously going to help stop the cross?

Anyway, in light of the ones we've not being given this season, this seems like a tame call, however legitimate. We didn't deserve to win, after all; however, I didn't feel we deserved to lose either. If ever a game had 0-0 written all over it, it was this; until Jerzy's intervention (or rather, failure to intervene when a slow shot crawled his way). Whatever happens with Dudek in the future, this fixture haunts him, and must give him the most terrifying nightmares; it does me . . .

Losing against both Everton and Manchester United (care of an ex-Blue) in recent weeks, both to tame shots, is not easy to take. Having already outplayed Arsenal and Chelsea at Anfield, it was disappointing to be so lacking in cutting edge in this game. But the type of football Rafa wants us to play ensures this won't remain a problem. I wasn't our day; extremely annoying, but it doesn't mean we're on the wrong tracks.

Perhaps Rafa will regret changing from the formation that had done so well against the two big London teams: 4-5-1 being replaced with 4-4-2. On this occasion, it meant Gerrard and Hamann were outnumbered in midfield, losing out to Keane, Scholes and Fletcher; United doing to us what Houllier often did to them at Old Trafford: men behind the ball, five in midfield, and scoring with their only meaningful attempt on goal. (And even that shouldn't have been meaningful, but an embarrassment to the moronic Rooney; instead Dudek was blushing as he writhed around on the floor like an old whore).

Benitez was right to not publicly castigate Jerzy Dudek in the aftermath, but inside he would have been fuming at the Pole missing such an easy shot in such a big game. As a manager you can pick a system, and be happily watching your team have the better of the opening exchanges; but one monumental error and even the best laid plans are shredded.

It's not just the fact of losing a goal and going behind in the kind of game where the first goal is invariably the most crucial, but the soul-destroying manner in which a goal like that is conceded. The goalkeeper's confidence disappears, and with it his teams'. It is the kind of goal that takes the stuffing out of a team.

4-4-2 is the formation almost everyone wants to see, and yet in this case it didn't help us. But the temptation to play Morientes was always going to be great; and to pair him with Baros made a lot of sense, as the two will be a great combination.

The need to put out the eleven best players was always going to be Rafa's primary concern, with Alonso, Kewell, Cisse and Finnan, amongst others, all missing. Tactics are one thing, but sometimes you just need to put out your best players, and hope quality counts. United missed key players too, but Ferguson has a larger squad to choose from, considering he has spent the last decade assembling it. He had more options to shuffle his pack.

El Moro showed some very fine touches, but it was a gamble by Rafa that didn't pay off. Milan Baros buzzed around 'Nando, with the Czech drifting wide, but the two cannot be expected to gel 24 hours after first meeting; it just doesn't happen. Morientes played some lovely flicks into Baros' path, but getting the return pass is never straightforward with Milan. Both players worked hard, and they are the kind of players where just one decent chance each and you're two goals to the good.

Although 4-4-2 allowed United to outnumber us in midfield on this occasion, 4-4-2 will ensure we can pick up lots of wins in the remaining games. Few midfields –– even with three in the centre –– will outdo Gerrard and whoever partners him (if Didi, hopefully not the pale shadow we saw yesterday –– with Igor looking far better in his brief cameo); although, of course, if it was Alonso alongside Stevie G, we'd fare far better. Xabi is our metronome, our pace-setter, our key passer. You cannot afford to lose players of his calibre at the best of times; less so when you have a thin squad.

One thing I felt Rafa might differently –– with hindsight –– would be to have played Nunez. This was arguably a game crying out less for Luis Garcia's trickery (which is proving less effective by the week), and more for the bigger, stronger and quicker Nunez's more basic playing style of trying to beat his man as directly as possible in order to whip crosses in. (Nunez also put in the second-best block tackle when he came on; the best being Carra's on Heinze, who screamed like a girl).

Morientes would have appreciated the kind of service Nunez put in against Watford, and yet again –– as a late sub –– Nunez produced the cross of the match; by then Morientes was off (looking understandably exhausted). The chance fell to Luis Garcia, who sliced the shot wide. I feel Nunez and Morientes –– who know each other from Real Madrid –– will prove a key element to the Benitez era; as an individual many will still refuse to see Nunez's merits (and he was poor in his first few games), but what he can offer the team will become ever-more apparent. (At least I believe so; I am not expecting others to see it just yet). Whipped-in early crosses are what Morientes feeds on.

Two plusses were that Pellegrino and Morientes both made promising debuts –– especially as neither had started a La Liga game all season, and taking into account how recently they'd arrived in England. (Admittedly Morientes did start in Real Madrid's 'seven minute match', when a game abandoned with seven minutes to go was later concluded; seven minutes being an amount similar to his substitute appearances, none of which were going to leave him match fit). Fortunately, his general condition on arriving was good, so it might be just two or three more games before we see him at his sharpest.

Pellegrino had a couple of shaky moments, but he and the outstanding Hyypia weren't given too many scares. Although Carra isn't the best at attacking from right back, I sense we could see this defence become the regular four (with perhaps Traore and Riise rotating), as yet again Carra showed his brilliance anywhere across the back four –– and now uses the ball better than in seasons gone by. It is a gigantic back four (and will be even bigger as a 'five' when Kirkland returns).

One of Rafa's first concerns has to be to start keeping regular clean sheets; but for Dudek erring, this would have been a rare one. I feel this is a back four that won't be remarkable going forward, but one which can do the basics of 'shutting up shop'. Now we have more attacking quality in the side –– and with the midfield given licence to get forward instead of protecting the back four the entire time –– the need for attacking full-backs is reduced. (Ideally they'd both defend and attack brilliantly, but there aren't many of those around).

Rooney and Saha tried to use their pace to get around our super-large (super-slow) centre backs, but in order to do so they had to knock the ball into space to run onto it (knowing that in tight one-on-ones both Sami and Pellegrino are great tacklers); but once they did this, the other read it well, and mopped up. Pace at the heart of a defence is essential unless you have two brilliant readers of the game, and we do; so long as it doesn't lead to us dropping too deep, as we did when Henchoz played, we'll be okay; I sense Pellegrino has far more leadership qualities than Henchoz, and that Benitez wants the Argentinian in the side to make this defence think the way the Valencia one did (and after all, they never defended deep, did they?).

The more I think about it, the more I believe Pellegrino hasn't been purchased as mere cover, but in order to use his vast experience and wonderful organizational skills almost week-in, week-out. Time will tell . . .

No-one has scored more than two goals against us all season; and only rarely have we conceded more than one. No-one has beaten us out of sight. Tighten up at the back that fraction more, and we'll have the firepower to win games. Especially from set-pieces: if we can get the delivery right, we've got some fantastic headers of the ball now in the team. We'll continue to have set-backs, and we won't be the finished article by May; but the foundations for this side to become a great one are definitely being laid.


As ever, to register a (purely provisional) interest in purchasing my book on LFC when it is published this summer, please email tomkins_lfcbook@btinternet.com.

© Paul Tomkins 2005
« Last Edit: January 16, 2005, 05:42:27 pm by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Life

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2005, 05:34:56 pm »
Good article Paul, and a few thought-provokers - as usual.

I'd disagree on the "everyone wants to see 4-4-2" line though.  I don't.  I want either 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1 or whatever will allow us to boss midfield - especially against the better teams.
Against the Mancs, with the pie-man sure to play and sure to keep dropping deep, we were always going to be over-run - as it happened, they also had Fletcher, Ronaldo and even Saha dropping back to join Scholes and Keane.
Bad call for Rafa I think.  And a big mistake throwing Morientes in from the start - asking too much, and he would have better coming on to a huge applause with 30 minutes left and having had the chance to gauge the game.


Worrying that Pellegrino couldn't step into Jamie's position - leaving Hyppia being out of position on the right cb slot.  I thought he was cover for both - now it seems he's cover for Sami - which is where Traore also plays.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2005, 05:44:27 pm »
Changed to 'almost everyone' as it was silly to say 'everyone' !

Agree that might have been the best idea with El Moro - but had he gone on the end of a couple of corners, he would have been a hero. It's a judgement call that, of course, is easier after the event. Most fans would have wanted to see him from the start, and he could have given us a huge boost by being out there from the start...

Offline hooded claw

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2005, 05:46:26 pm »
You do realise that you have forever tainted Dudek's image in my eyes, by your graphic simile?

Offline Kanonkop

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2005, 05:46:56 pm »
Another excellent and straight to the point analysis of both the match and the current state of play.

I am not, however, sure that Kirkland is the goalkeeping answer either.  Some like him, others don't and I am one of those.  A stronger keeper would not only make fewer mistakes (thereby tightening up our already solid defense even further) but also instill that extra bit of confidence which filters through all the way up the pitch to the forwards.  Thus I think neither Kirkland or Dudek are good enough for the future and the former should be sold in the summer whilst he still has this reputation as 'England's next keeper'

Our hardest games (bar Arsenal away) are now behind us and we should have the squad to ensure 4th place without further acquisitions.  This assumes no more serious injuries of course.  Granted we could use another top class forward for the rest of this season, especially with a mind to the Champions League but is that really where we need to spend funds with a view to next season and beyond?  If we can sign a keeper of Cudicini or Cesar's standing then that would Eb positive, otherwise I think the best tactic would be to safeguard funds for the summer and allow Benitez to buy / sell players then with the max funds available.


Finally, a lot of people are writing of this season given that we are not going to win the league.  This is wrong, there is plenty of excitement and enjoyment to be gained from seeing how we develop week-on-week, month-on-month with a view to how we will do next year and there are always the three cups....
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Offline docker

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2005, 05:56:58 pm »
good read that Paul, i personally feel baros is impossible to partner, even for the chech republic koller is a foil, not a partnership, Rafa had the option of 4-5-1, but baros would of been on the bench, my opinion. Nunez an kewell are vital for a player like morientes, ones unproven, the other well, lives of a season some years ago, and were still waiting to reproduce. lastly look at the line ups yesterday and count how many defensive players we had on the pitch, and compare it with united.
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Offline bigal

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2005, 05:57:03 pm »
You make some telling points about the formation and the choices of Moro and Garcia.
I do think you have to remember that Dudek has now made mistakes consistently. It's a relief at the end of games when he hasn't - not good enough for a Liverpool goalkeeper. You have more faith in Kirkland than I have after this year.
And I hate to say so but we can't just use injuries as if only we'd had... They were missing Horseface, Ferdinand, Neville the elder and others. They played better than us, passed the ball better and they did hit the bar, so it wasn't their only worthwhile effort.
A bit of luck didn't come our way but generally, I hate to say, we were beaten fair and square.

Offline cochyn

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2005, 07:22:16 pm »
Yesterday was typical of the games we have lost this season: Indecision (nerves?) turning into a lack of desire to win as the game went on. I find it strange how we can look so confident and assured one match and then look like eleven frightened rookies the next. But back to yesterdays game: I just think there was a collective lack of desire on our part that infected more of our players as the clock counted down; in short United wanted it more than us, and put in more gutsy tackles to prove it.

Allied to this was the inclusion of two debutants in a team that begged for steel and experience. Morientes and Pelle are, IMO, fantastic players and will go on serve this club very well indeed. I just think Rafa put them in to try and out-finesse the mancs and you're never going to do that when we're missing the 'quality' players who can get the most out of our new aquisitions, and the mancs are relying on their scrappers to cover for injured players. It was allways going to be a hard-fought game, and in hindsight a five-man midfield with Biscan and Nunez from the off could have been the answer, but hindsight's like that isn't it?

I agree with your assesment of where we stand: that we boast Alonso, Morientes and Pellegrino is tribute to Rafa's reputation, and the standing of our club (IIRC didn't Morientes turn Chelsea down last summer?) We're playing some sublime football again, and when we lose, we lose by the narrowest of margins. All very encouraging. We won't come near to winning the league this year (although I feel a cup will wing it's way to Anfield come May...) but watching the emergence of Rafa's Liverpool is fascinating viewing, and I'm delighted to be along for the ride.

Oh the heavy water how it enfolds. The salt, the spray, the gorgeous undertow.

Offline Kop4

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2005, 07:29:26 pm »
I could have almost written that article word for word myself. :P

Many points are mentioned which I brought up before the game.  4-5-1 should have been used against a team bang in form.  Especially given that SG apparently needed an injection to play, due to a groin strain.

Morientes was clearly unfit, as was Pellegrino.  But it is easier to get away with less fitness at centre back.

Morientes will be a star for us and I agree that Pellegrino will probably feature more rather than less, to help get Rafa's defensive ideas across on the pitch.

Igor should have started, and did well in the few minutes he was on -- one header and pass 'n move type stuff.  I wish I could say Didi had a rare poor game, but yesterdays shocker (save one meaty tackle) is becoming more regular.  Playing a purely holding role as he does it was galling to see Manure win so many second balls between our defence and midfield with Hamann nowhere in sight.

Rafa's other strange decision was to bring on Sinama ahead of Nunez.  Morientes should have been given 10 mins to goalhang waiting for a Nunez cross, before being replaced by a forward.

As mentioned by Andy Gray, we should have been a great threat from set-pieces.  If Igor and Nunez had started, that could well have qualified as the Premier League's tallest ever team!

Ah well, onwards and upwards.  At least the bluenoses  could only draw.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2005, 08:39:08 pm »
At least the bluenoses  could only draw.


Indeed. And so too could Boro!  ;)

Spurs also lost, so it was day in which we didn't really *suffer* too much in terms of league position. We've now played all the 'big three' home, plus Chelsea and Man U away - five of the six toughest games (leaving Arsenal at Highbury) played by mid-January, as well as Everton away gotten out of the way as well.

So if you include Everton as the other really tough game (given it's a derby), that's six of the eight toughest fixtures out of the way, plus we've gone to Spurs and Boro.

The run-in is hardly easy, but it should provide less testing games.

Offline Alf

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2005, 08:48:46 pm »
Good article Paul. I for one was mystified that Rafa didn't play Nunez on the right wing with Morientes playing up front and am expecting us to reap the rewards of these two playing in tandem.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2005, 08:58:02 pm »
Man Utd, Fulham, Blackburn, Crystal Palace and Middlesboro have all scored 2 against us. I think we've kept 5 clean sheets in the Premiership out of 23 games which ain't too good either.

Felt for Pellegrino yesterday bunged into that match ain't didn't look confident at all - is there anything more annoying that having a centre back with no pressure on him whatsoever to hoof the ball high and wide and missing his target area by 30 yards? He did this a couple of times.

Morientes looked very very bright tho from his first touch and he will be a key player in the league for our next 15 games. A truly great signing I reckon.

Too much tho has been written about Dudek's 'howler' and not enough about Garcia's reluctance to pass to Morientes earlier on in the game. We could have been 1 up early on and perhaps looking at a very different game... i.e one that could have built a foundation for a win and a realistic chance of 3rd. It's that clinical edge to our game which is missing, and some of our players need to learn the joy of setting up goals instead of the glory of going out to get them.

It'll click tho - an injury free run and regular faces on the pitch would be nice - Gerrard and Alonso behind Morientes and Baros... we get that going and we can go places.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2005, 09:04:30 pm »
Good read Paul, although on the non-penalty incident.. I think we had a better claim the other end when Heinze brought Mori down. Looked like a great tackle at the game yesterday, but I was sitting near the Anny road end. However, seeing it again on the highlights, it was a foul and should have been a pen IMO.

Yes, Heinze took the ball, but only after he wrapped both legs around mori's and took the player down first.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2005, 09:20:23 pm »
Totally agree. We may have lost, but we'll come back stronger.  Believe.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2005, 09:36:51 pm »
Good read Paul, although on the non-penalty incident.. I think we had a better claim the other end when Heinze brought Mori down. Looked like a great tackle at the game yesterday, but I was sitting near the Anny road end. However, seeing it again on the highlights, it was a foul and should have been a pen IMO.

Yes, Heinze took the ball, but only after he wrapped both legs around mori's and took the player down first.

I thought it was a fantastic tackle by a very very good full back. He got to the ball, everything else is irrelevant. Ref had a good game really except for the odd excessive punishment.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2005, 09:38:58 pm »
Yes, Heinze took the ball, but only after he wrapped both legs around mori's and took the player down first.


Agree with that to a degree, although once a player gets the ball that gives the ref a chance to bottle it. It was a very tough tackle, although if Carra had done it and a penalty was given, I'd be disappointed.


Man Utd, Fulham, Blackburn, Crystal Palace and Middlesboro have all scored 2 against us. I think we've kept 5 clean sheets in the Premiership out of 23 games which ain't too good either.


In 30+ games this season in all competitions, five teams scoring two against us isn't too bad. But as I said, the lack of clean sheets is the worry - it's the one goal defeats and draws that are costing us.

Saw a few poor passes from Pellegrino, but I liked what I saw. If that's his first game in England, not fully fit, in a high-tempo 'battle', I don't think he'll go far wrong. That said, plenty of players have started well and got worse, just as players have started slowly and got better.

As for LG, yeah, he should have passed. But I like the way he is always looking to score. But he's not playing that well at the moment.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2005, 09:43:14 pm »

In 30+ games this season in all competitions, five teams scoring two against us isn't too bad. But as I said, the lack of clean sheets is the worry - it's the one goal defeats and draws that are costing us.

I was thinking about this earler, watching the Everton/Boro game. The blue defence has been excellent this season, with lots of 1-0 wins. We don't seem to kep clean sheets- but we never get battered, even as an anomaly, as they have done on a  few occasions.  UIt's rare for us to concede more than one- two seldom, never more than that.
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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2005, 09:48:21 pm »
Very insightful report.
You mentioned the midfield and obviously thats where it was won. For whatever reason, Gerrard had his worst game this season. Keane was too much for him only because Keane had so much time and space and so many options when in posession. Not only did we miss Alonso for obvious creative purposes, but they had rested Keane for 11 days just for this match, and with Pie boy and Saha dropping back they always wanted to flood the midfield, Alonso just being a hard fighting midfielder was gonna be missed. Didi was almost playing right back, we were all over the place being dragged wide to whichever side they wanted us. I think this was because their 5 man midfield was really only against a 3 man with us. Garcia was too lightweight as ever. Pongolle playing like against Arsenal and Olympiakos would have given them no time on the ball and our right  side wouldnt have been over-ran.
Also, Carra and Hyypia is so solid i dont think Pie boy wouldhave got anything. Although Pelle did well under the circumstances.
I think now we need to go out and for a mil or two get a hard tackling fighter midfielder, early thirties if need be, or a young one, maybe use John Welsh. Gary Mac number 2, but they are obviously hard to come by.
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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2005, 10:00:47 pm »
Porto won the Champions league , Valencia the spanish leagure, the greeks won euro 04 , all with out "gallacticos" (sounds a bit like a cough misture) ...our manager is mostly doing the right things, and although It was bitter to lose yesterday, it was , to me, mainly because we let our passion take us over , and failed to play the sort of game we did against Arsenal, Charlton, and Monaco (at home) and in the second half v Olympiacos and also MU played a similar game to Watford, didnt let us settle , kicked anything that moved and got a lucky goal leaving us chasing the game; personally i would have put Mellor on in the first half, told him, a) go out and stuff the team you hate and b) your replacement is sitting on the bench, prove to me that you are worthy of the shirt...
then I would have put Morientes on with Nunez when both fresh in the second half (early , as rafa did v Olympiacos with Flo)
...Rafa was also perhaps caught up in the passion, going for or "luck" yesterday , i feel he was hoping that nando would continue his trend of debut goals , however CHEER up; I have a feeling that we could meet both Chelsea and MU in the remaining cup competitiions and get a chance for sweet revenge.. as for the premiereship, where are your positive waves man? of course we can , with a full squad we are good enough, even with the ocassional error from Dudek or Kirky ...have some faith lads ...BELIEVE 
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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2005, 10:05:14 pm »
Nunez also put in the second-best block tackle when he came on; the best being Carra's on Heinze, who screamed like a girl



Haha. Great line.  ;D

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2005, 10:09:54 pm »
In 30+ games this season in all competitions, five teams scoring two against us isn't too bad. But as I said, the lack of clean sheets is the worry - it's the one goal defeats and draws that are costing us.

Agreed. In two of the games which saw us leak 2 goals we won. Win 3-2 every game and you'd have to say it ain't going to bad. We've had our bad luck with goals, ruled offside/but wasn't ... penalties, you name it - we've had it.

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Saw a few poor passes from Pellegrino, but I liked what I saw. If that's his first game in England, not fully fit, in a high-tempo 'battle', I don't think he'll go far wrong. That said, plenty of players have started well and got worse, just as players have started slowly and got better.

So sitting on the fence for this one? ;D Nobody can judge - for a first performance he gets a plus, and you can't ask anymore than that.

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As for LG, yeah, he should have passed. But I like the way he is always looking to score. But he's not playing that well at the moment.


I love Garcia - if somebody pinned me down and asked me to pick a favourite player :boring ;D.. I'd pick Garcia. I love the fact he has a go. Miles off much of the time but has buried a few (some dissallowed) - he just HAS to learn when to pass and when to shoot - but he could be a great player. We've got a really bloody good team!

Offline pngfan

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2005, 10:45:29 pm »
Another fantastic article Paul.

A question for you - is Cesar the answer to our goalkeeping woes, at least short term.  He's available presumably on a free, and he's been reported as saying that he's interested in a move to Anfield. 

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2005, 10:45:57 pm »
Maybe it was because I was so looking forward to this game, but I was gutted.

I also expected Nunez to playfor his crossing ability and for the first time was a little disappointed by Rafa's decisions. I would never try and put myself forward as a manager, but I was surprised by some of his decisions, particularly the substitutes. I know he was stuffed, but couldn't Moro have played 10 min. with Nunez on the field. The first time we had a player looking to cross we had the forward line of FSP and Baros. Hardly likely to worry the already set Utd defense.
Far to many times we saw Sami and Pello carring the ball into Utd's half. Where were our midfield? We carried the ball into areas already flooded with players. They dropped everyone behind the ball and said "come and get us" and we couldn't do it. I think we really missed Alonso. His style of passing would have at least stretched their defence, and by his own standards Gerrard played,at best, average would have said both Keane and Scholes had better games.
I try to be a "Glass half full"  supporter and the result itself I can live with, but I was disappointed by the way we played.
Roll on next game so I can put this out of my mind

Offline Kop4

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2005, 11:19:21 pm »
5 games now against the 'big 3' and only one last kick victory.  Not good.

However, at no stage except maybe the first half at MU were we overwhelmed.  Never beaten by more than the odd scrappy / lucky goal.  That is important in terms of belief.  We are clearly not there yet, but not too far behind also.

A win yesterday and we would have been 4 behind MU / Everton and 8 behind Arsenal.  Given all that has gone before, that would not have been too bad.

We must keep the faith.  We are slightly behind the big 3 in quality and composure, but way ahead of the rest of the chaff.
A travesty of a sham of a mockery.

Offline kira

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2005, 02:52:16 am »
Paul,

always on the lookout for your writeouts, it takes away the dissapointment of losing to manc
defeat is always hard to stomach

anyway, do you think that there will be more players brought in this transfer period?
 


« Last Edit: January 17, 2005, 02:56:16 am by kira »

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2005, 09:28:16 am »
anyway, do you think that there will be more players brought in this transfer period?


Can't see more money being shelled out, although maybe someone out of contract might come our way. I am still interested in the Pennant situation at Arsenal, and maybe Rafa will make a move for Cesar. But I expect more activity in the summer, when we know who's fit and capable for next season.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2005, 10:41:59 am »
A very good post, I had my own views while watching and although I would never question rafa I thought he should have brought on Igor for Hamann a lot earlier than he did, and think Riise should have been left on as I feel he's more of a goal threat than Traore.

What was sickening was that we lost to their only shot on target (although they did hit the bar). They did have players missing but their strikers even minus Van Needleprick cost a total of nearly £45m and hardly carried that much of a goal threat, and as well as the Man Utd played, they played well defensively and are not a patch on previous teams that turned up. No way did we deserve to win, but we didn't deserve to lose.

Gerrard was a tad dissapointing, but thats because he's been setting such high standards and was outnumbered in centre mid, and hamann was nowhere his usual standards either.

At the end of the day, we may have lost 8 games, but 6 of those have been against other teams in the top 6, and Arsenal away aside our toughest games are behind us. If we can get Baros & Moro firing 4th place should be ours, then we can strengthen in the summer and mount a proper title challenge next season and get back to where we belong. 
I wish I'd be a bit more spontaneous. Sometimes I feel like going out, stealing a traffic cone, putting it on my head and saying, "Look at me, I'm a giant witch."

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2005, 10:44:54 am »
What was sickening was that we lost to their only shot on target (although they did hit the bar).


Agree with what you've said in your post - although of course, it still remained their only shot on target, as hitting the bar and coming out is not on target. Funny they should hit the bar with a great shot, and score from a rubbish one...

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2005, 10:50:58 am »
anyway, do you think that there will be more players brought in this transfer period?
We can only hope for a better keeper. Dudek and Kirkland just don't cut it and if a new keeper doesn't come in this January then he'll be here this summer. What we've got just ain't good enough.
Not blaming Dudek entirely for the result - we had plenty of time to rectify, but just what the hell has gone wrong with him? Anyone remember just how good he was when he first joined. Compare that to what he is today. You have to wonder what they're doing in training... :o

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2005, 10:55:48 am »
Agree with what you've said in your post - although of course, it still remained their only shot on target, as hitting the bar and coming out is not on target. Funny they should hit the bar with a great shot, and score from a rubbish one...
Just how many shots did we have... We were playing at home after all. I really can't remember the midfield having a single shot worth mentioning. Just read that Riise claims that Benitez wants him to shoot more. Well not much evidence of that on Saturday.

I think only Carrager came closest with his long range effort and I think that was the only save Carroll had to make all game.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2005, 12:10:33 pm »
Anyone remember just how good he was when he first joined. Compare that to what he is today. You have to wonder what they're doing in training... :o


Nothing to do with training whatsoever.

It's to do with confidence - Jerzy lost his in 2002, and once you make serious errors, they play on your mind.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2005, 12:47:58 pm »
I'd like to believe that, but considering that every keeper we've had the last 10 years or so has gone down the drain after some time at Melwood. You have to wonder...  :-X

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2005, 01:27:15 pm »
I'd like to believe that, but considering that every keeper we've had the last 10 years or so has gone down the drain after some time at Melwood. You have to wonder...  :-X


It's the pressure of playing at a top club. It's down to the keeper to be able to handle it, not the coach.

Look at Man U - since the superb Schmiechel retired, they've got through TEN goalkeepers. Same manager at OT, same coaches, but keepers at big clubs make mistakes and get ripped to pieces, and then they lose their confidence.

Kirkland had a slightly dodgy phase, but he's hardly made any massive errors. He's 23 and he will prove good enough and mentally strong enough, but maybe not for a year or two.

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Re: Depressing, but light beyond every dark cloud.
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2005, 06:11:58 am »
from now on  i must refrain from going out of town when we have "big" matches as they have never come good :'(

excellent article as always.  Felt we lost the battle in the middle of the park -  Didi beginning to show his age and Gerrard not been playing up to his standard since injuries - and should have played Nunez ahead of Garcia if 4-4-2 was the plan.  But knowing Rafa, he's never afraid to take risk and put in new players straight away.  And perhaps he just wanted to play in his best healthy 11 for this match. 

The point on Alonso is spot on.  We are really missing him, A LOT, to the extent that might be as much as we would have if it was Gerrard not playing.   

It's OK though, as the weeks' league results did not hurt us  :-\    Though secretly hoping Rafa would do a Valencia with us  ;D this has always been a transition year in reality.   The most important thing is that we are on the right track and keep improving.