Author Topic: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.  (Read 41929 times)

Offline Beige

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #520 on: September 9, 2013, 10:23:33 am »
With all the signings coming in, anyone figured out the wages they are on.  We managed to move some big wages ie Reina, Carroll, Downing out but if the players we signed are on wages similar to those moved out we are back to square one.

As I like to do these things, here's my estimation of the significant changes to our wage budget this summer. It's based on freely available sources and deduction, so probably contains a lot of errors, and thus only gives a ballpark figure of our savings.

PlayerWages (£k/week)
Kolo Touré60
Iago Aspas25
Luis Alberto15
Simon Mignolet45
Tiago Ilori15
Mamadou Sakho65
Aly Cissokho45
Victor Moses50
Jamie Carragher-100
Peter Gulacsi-20
Andy Carroll-0
Jonjo Shelvey-30
Jay Spearing-0
Stewart Downing-70
Pepe Reina-110
Suso-10
Oussama Assaidi-20
Fabio Borini-40
Total-80


Andy and Jay were on loan last season, so their wages were already mostly off our books.

Offline fewmin' bedwetter

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #521 on: September 9, 2013, 10:34:08 am »
one word

sturridge

Point taken - it does look a lot better if you take January and the summer together, with Sturridge and Coutinho, then Aspas and Moses, especially if the last two can really come to the party.
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Offline swordfishtrombone

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #522 on: September 9, 2013, 10:35:03 am »
It's an interesting transfer in a lot of ways because PSG's price was deliberately set to be above his 'value'. Our initial bid was 8m Euros. Roma's was even lower. We'd previously looked at him sufficiently for him to be fully aware of our interest. So it was hardly a shot in the dark with him. Whoever did the groundwork did a good job though because he was pretty adamant that he wanted to come here. And the price we paid strongly indicates we really wanted what he offers.

Absolutely, that's the really interesting thing about the transfer when we think about how the committee might work, and how they decide on a player's value. Many people's view has been that our search for "value" is little more than an excuse to duck out of signings when the price gets too high. In this case we've paid much much more than anyone else was willing to pay. It shows, as you say, that we're to spend pretty much whatever it takes (within our budget) for the right player if we think they're worth it.

Online Eeyore

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #523 on: September 9, 2013, 11:09:12 am »
Sakho didn't become 'available' til mid-August when he announced he wanted to leave PSG. PSG wanted 20m Euros for him, so it's not much of a saving. The alternative was to wait til January and pay him most of that in wages and signing on fees, and that's if there wasn't other interest. It's an interesting transfer in a lot of ways because PSG's price was deliberately set to be above his 'value'. Our initial bid was 8m Euros. Roma's was even lower. We'd previously looked at him sufficiently for him to be fully aware of our interest. So it was hardly a shot in the dark with him. Whoever did the groundwork did a good job though because he was pretty adamant that he wanted to come here. And the price we paid strongly indicates we really wanted what he offers.

From what Sakho said over the weekend it sounds like it was Sakho who didn't want to move in January though Zeb. He said he wanted to leave on amicable terms and to give something back to PSG. As for us paying over his value if Sakho wasn't prepared to leave it to January and wanted to move this window then I am not so sure that is true.
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Offline swordfishtrombone

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #524 on: September 9, 2013, 11:19:54 am »
We paid what, three or four times what any other suitor was willing to pay? We've clearly paid significantly more than his "market value"..

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #525 on: September 9, 2013, 11:31:19 am »
We paid what, three or four times what any other suitor was willing to pay? We've clearly paid significantly more than his "market value"..

In that case Suarez's market value must of been the initial 25m Arsenal offered because no one else offered anymore. PSG are not short of money and had no immediate need to sell Sakho so it was always going to be a case of meeting their valuation.
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Offline swordfishtrombone

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #526 on: September 9, 2013, 12:01:27 pm »
Yup it was always going to be difficult to strike a deal with PSG because they're loaded. The fact that we did meet that value which was well in excess of what anyone else would pay (the other reported offer was Roma for €5-6m), and for a player who would be available for nothing in a year.

I think now, a good couple of seasons into FSG's ownership, you can at least see some kind of coherent strategy in the transfer market. Yes, there's an emphasis on younger talent with relatively modest starting salaries, but we're prepared to look at older players on the right kind of deal. We're prepared to pay top money to established players when they've earned it. We seem to be looking at transfer fees in a more holistic way - looking at the fee, wage and agent fees and are prepared to walk away if the deal isn't right. We've got someone - the committee presumably - assigning a value to players. Sometimes that'll mean we walk away from deals (Gylfi, Willian), but sometimes it'll mean we're prepared to really push the boat out.

I just don't see how that can be a bad thing.

The headline figure in the OP is nonsense as well of course. While we've cut some big wage earners from the team but we've spent a lot of that on proved contracts and wages for incoming players. I'd guess that we'll see the wage bill creep down a wee bit in the next accounts, but we're still going to be sitting at over £100m. We appear to have a steady transfer kitty of £30m at the minute. The idea that FSG are slashing their way through our wage bill is nonsense. The idea that they're haven't backed their managers with money to spend is nonsense.

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #527 on: September 9, 2013, 02:35:53 pm »
As I like to do these things, here's my estimation of the significant changes to our wage budget this summer. It's based on freely available sources and deduction, so probably contains a lot of errors, and thus only gives a ballpark figure of our savings.

PlayerWages (£k/week)
Kolo Touré60
Iago Aspas25
Luis Alberto15
Simon Mignolet45
Tiago Ilori15
Mamadou Sakho65
Aly Cissokho45
Victor Moses50
Jamie Carragher-100
Peter Gulacsi-20
Andy Carroll-0
Jonjo Shelvey-30
Jay Spearing-0
Stewart Downing-70
Pepe Reina-110
Suso-10
Oussama Assaidi-20
Fabio Borini-40
Total-80


Andy and Jay were on loan last season, so their wages were already mostly off our books.

Thanks for the informative response!

Not so sure Gulasci was on such massive wages and was there a report somewhere that we are actually paying half of Reina's wages on loan

So let me just get the gist of it. Players that moved on were on massive wages and the players coming in were on better wages then they were before in their previous club but still meet our framework.  And also the part where transfer fees are just that.  Wages play a bigger part in where we will end up in the league hopefully. 

Something like the downing deal.  Where we sold him off for ard 5m but the wages we saved on him were quite substantial(as he was on quite a mighty one). 

My guess the only signing on big wages is maybe Sakho but even then then it was mentioned that his contract was renewed pre Qatari investment so the jump may not be as high the wage he would command in January if we were to go for him as his contract was running down and maybe other clubs come into the picture.  Free transfers comes at a price too especially if it is us in it. :butt Joe cole and Jovanovic comes to mind.


Offline B0151?

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #528 on: September 9, 2013, 02:55:27 pm »
PSG are not short of money and had no immediate need to sell Sakho so it was always going to be a case of meeting their valuation.

Not to mention there would be more attractive clubs than us (at this moment of time) that would have jumped ahead of us had we waited until January. Or if we hadn't met PSG valuation, they would have lowered to a point in which these other clubs could come in.

It was do what PSG wanted or not get the lad, an opportunity opened up and we obviously thought he's worth it. I don't see his contract time being all too relevant if it's a case of pay that fee or not get him at all.

Offline dzaek

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #529 on: September 9, 2013, 05:00:20 pm »
Personally, I've seen enough in our three wins to believe we can make the top 4 this year. We have enough skillful players to get a goal and now the players are clued up enough to know how to close a game out. The gradual belief can be seen from the difficulty and nervousness of the Stoke game to the relative ease with which they kept Utd at arms length. Yes there will be trickier games ahead but I honestly think we'll collect a lot of points against teams who don't have the necessary keys to unlock our defensive game.


well, actually, with the great start, the team work and spirit, plus suarez's inclusion, i'm expecting us to aim for top 3 instead.

anything more is a bonus.
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Offline incredibleL4ever

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Re: The bigger picture; £500,000 saved. A WEEK.
« Reply #530 on: September 10, 2013, 03:20:38 pm »
As I like to do these things, here's my estimation of the significant changes to our wage budget this summer. It's based on freely available sources and deduction, so probably contains a lot of errors, and thus only gives a ballpark figure of our savings.

PlayerWages (£k/week)
Kolo Touré60
Iago Aspas25
Luis Alberto15
Simon Mignolet45
Tiago Ilori15
Mamadou Sakho65
Aly Cissokho45
Victor Moses50
Jamie Carragher-100
Peter Gulacsi-20
Andy Carroll-0
Jonjo Shelvey-30
Jay Spearing-0
Stewart Downing-70
Pepe Reina-110
Suso-10
Oussama Assaidi-20
Fabio Borini-40
Total-80


Andy and Jay were on loan last season, so their wages were already mostly off our books.


I think your estimation for the incoming players, especially the first 5, is underestimated.  Toure would be more like 80, Aspas 40, Alberto and Ilori 25 each and Mignolet 60k.  Thats my estimates.  I have no more knowledge than you, but it is that the speculation about savings in wages is just speculation.  My own figures work out at a 15k per week reduction this summer and a 310k reduction since FSG took over.
However they have spent 105m net on transfers in the same period.
The tumours left the club in a really bad position, and it is right and proper that FSG have addressed this.  The increased revenue (new sponsorship + TV) deals, coupled with culling overpaid, underperforming  players means that the future of the club is secure.  Now we are in a position that we can develop from here.