Author Topic: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors  (Read 9871 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« on: July 17, 2005, 09:55:11 pm »
We are the world's best when it comes to 'spin', aren't we? Politicians cannot hold a candle to us football fans. We can twist and turn any situation to our club's favour. Or, if we happen to be a fan of 'reverse spin' (no, nothing to do with shining only one side of your balls), turn any situation on its head.

We use spin on each other –– as to why our favourites should play, and those who madden us be taken around the back at Melwood and shot with an elephant tranquilliser dart –– but mostly we use it on rival supporters: to defend our club, and rubbish theirs. As Liverpool fans we might be called into 'spin action' a lot more over the comical-looking Peter Crouch, should he arrive. But ultimately, does it matter a fig what fans of other clubs think?

People are still laughing at Crouch, fresh from scoring 16 league goals in 24 games. Personally, I'd like to see a bit more of that kind of 'ineptness' in front of goal at Liverpool. I'd settle for Laurel and Hardy, or Ike and Tina Turner, or Michelangelo and his dead clay-sculpting monkey as our centre forward pairings if they all notched at that kind of ratio.

We all laughed at Andy Cole at Man Utd, but he scored the goals that won the league and was part of their Champions League-winning team. Was Cole the perfect player? Far from it. Did he do a job? No question.

I recently saw an Evertonian on a Liverpool forum, laughing that the Reds were looking to sign Crouch. Such fun at our expense, less than a month after Steven Gerrard lifted the European Cup. You'd think the Reds had just been relegated to the Conference.

It seems no matter what your team achieves, there will always be someone trying to lessen its significance in football's all-powerful whitewashing, white-lying, fast-spinning washing machine. But hey, none of us are perfect; we're all as bad as each other.

An example of opposition spin is the idea that Liverpool were 'lucky' to win the European Cup this May, despite the remarkable results against Olympiakos and three of the big favourites, Chelsea, Juventus and AC Milan. It's very rare for a fan of a rival club to hold his or her hands up and say "fair dos, you won it fair and square. We bow to your all-round superiority". Frankly, more often than not we start lying to ourselves before we even begin lying to anyone else.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really care much for discussing football online with non-Liverpool fans. Unless they are incredibly well-balanced and open-minded, it ends up being the kind of argument I thought I'd left behind when I graduated from primary school. (And as my dad was was an unusually growth-stunted circus dwarf descended from the Mbuti pygmy people of the Ituri Rainforest, I was always on sticky ground as to whose dad was biggest.)

Too little of it ends up being good natured and good humoured, and instead of clever badinage it just descends into rabid name calling. Banter is all well and good, but what you mostly find on internet fora, when it comes to inter-team discussions, is bile. Football has moved on. We no longer hurl broken seats at one and other; instead we launch catty epithets via our keyboard.

Your striker is a bit rubbish...

Oooo, Meeooww.


The summer of spin

The conclusion to last season provided one of the biggest opportunities for spin seen on Merseyside for 20 years. What happens when the bragging rights get a little blurred in their distinctions, and both parties feel they've won the moral victory? It becomes more confusing than the boxing world's hierarchy of titles, as to who is outright, undisputed champion.

Who is right? Does a fractional gap after 38 domestic games make you a better team, or does winning the European Cup?

Again, I fully expect Evertonians to say the former. And that is their right –– the life raft to which they must doggedly cling, to avoid facing up to the Reds' achievement in Istanbul. (Of course, ask them what they'd prefer: to finish 3 points behind the Reds and win the European Cup, or last season's scenario. If you get an honest answer, it would, I suspect, be the former.)

If you are playing the theoretical game of footballing Top Trumps, then nothing beats The European Cup. Only one of the achievements by Liverpool and Everton will be writ large in the historical archives of the game. Everton won the local skirmish; Liverpool won the World War. (Okay, the European War, but that sounds a bit crap.)

Again, I don't expect Evertonians to agree. But I am happy for them to think what they want, just as they shouldn't lose sleep over anything I have to say –– after all, none of us is impartial, and nor would we wish to be. Ultimately, we don't have to justify anything about our club to any outsiders. And they don't have to justify their club to us.


Managing spin

When opposing fans say something, it's easy for me to ignore; but when their manager has a veiled dig at Liverpool's expense, I become interested.

I was rather intrigued by David Moyes' recent comments about everyone else looking up at a 'big three' of Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd. Now while I disagree with this on the grounds of what happened in Europe, in that I think Liverpool's major success there promotes them to form an elite band of four, I can't spin the Premiership table, in isolation, to make it look any rosier for Liverpool with regards to the points gap between 5th and 3rd.

I can offer the extenuating circumstances of injuries, but the Reds were too far behind the top three for anyone but Liverpool fans to take seriously the excuses behind the league failings. I'd like to think others would, but I wouldn't expect them to.

But the silly part of what Moyes' had to say was the following: how Everton now apparently compete in the transfer market with the likes of Middlesborough, Charlton and yes, you guessed it, Liverpool (the Champions of Europe).

Fair play to Moyes for milking last season's league table. If I were him, I would too. I fully expect Moyes to milk it until the teat is as purple as Alex Ferguson's nose (admittedly, that brings to mind some extremely disturbing imagery, if you picture it too literally). But Moyes was 'spinning' (something I've seen some Reds fans request he go do), because managers, just like fans, are experts in the art. Managers tell the fans of their club what they want to hear. And if he's our leader, we lap it up.

It was, however, a strange time for Moyes to make the comments, having only hours earlier lost out to Liverpool on the signing of the hugely promising Momo Sissoko, who had also apparently tempted Chelsea. It also coincided with Luis Figo pleading to join the Reds, who had also just signed 50+ cap Dutch star Bolo Zenden, Chilean boy-wonder Mark Gonzales, and the in-demand Spanish international 'keeper, Pepe Reina, who turned down Manchester United.

Liverpool, it is clear, are competing with Europe's elite for players (it hasn't always been the case, in recent seasons), and not with the likes of Charlton and Everton. If a club in the list Moyes names makes a move for a player, and Liverpool do likewise, it becomes a mismatch. It happened with Boro's attempts to hang onto 'free agent' Zenden. There was no hesitation on his part. Liverpool still has that pulling power.

Everton had a great season last time out. By their recent standards. But to me –– and here I'm employing my own brand of spin –– it's like a Sinclair C5 (sprayed blue, Chang Beer written one the side) finishing ahead of a beautiful bright red Formula One Ferrari on the grounds that the Ferrari spent too long in the pits, because someone kept puncturing its tyres.

(The tyres in this analogy being Cissé, Gerrard, Alonso and Kewell, not to mention several other reliable all-weather spares that were freakishly burst at various points of the season. Of course, it didn't help that some of the remaining spares were skinny and bald, albeit purely in a metaphorical sense.)

Of course, I have my tongue firmly in my cheek, and I exaggerate for comedic effect.

After all, it's clear to all and sundry that Everton have rarely been good enough to compare even to a Sinclair C5. (Note: this is not spin, but what is more commonly referred to as a 'cheap jibe'.)


Lying

Apparently, "the league table doesn't lie".

To my mind, the table is only "correct" once every team has played one and other home and away. But even then it doesn't take into account exceptional circumstances, such as unprecedented injury lists, and having Mike Riley referee your matches. All things being equal, the table wouldn't lie; but all things are never equal. It's part of the fun of football, but it's also a misleading element.

Look at it this way: Would Mike Tyson, in his prime, have been expected to box with a broken arm? Would he have been as fearful? –– after all, he still had another perfectly good arm, right? But couldn't a mere slogger have stood a far better chance against him, with one of Tyson's arms in a sling? Given the choice, assuming running from the ring wasn't an option, I'd opt to face the incapacitated Tyson every time.

In football, if your best players are injured, there's no postponement to wait for them to be fit again, to make it a 'fair' fight. (Or, for that matter, boxers don't have their place taken by a 'substitute' in the form of a lesser fighter.) That's part of the joy of football –– the selection headaches of the manager –– but also reason for occasional statistical anomalies.

At least that's my spin. But hey, what does it matter?

Ultimately, we'll go on celebrating winning Number Five, and Evertonians will rightly enjoy the summer they spent above Liverpool in the league table down to points won the previous season, and not, for once, solely on alphabetical order for the forthcoming season.

Reds will tease their Manchester rivals about the beautiful ratio 5:2, and United fans will mention their eight Premiership titles; to which Scousers will mention the all-time total of 18, and so on. Arsenal fans will counter Liverpudlian taunts about never having won 'the big one' with their remarkable Premiership record in recent seasons, and as for Chelsea –– well, anything they achieve will be discredited by all and sundry on account of the "throw enough cash at a problem" factor. But will they care? I very much doubt it.

It's all about to start again. Ten months of new spin await...

 ©Paul Tomkins, 2005

Details of how to get my book "Golden Past, Red Future: Liverpool FC Champions of Europe 2005" for £2-4 discount can be found at www.paultomkins.com, along with a list of shops and online stores (including www.amazon.co.uk) now stocking the book.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2005, 09:59:47 pm »

After all, it's clear to all and sundry that Everton have rarely been good enough to compare even to a Sinclair C5. (Note: this is not spin, but what is more commonly referred to as a 'cheap jibe'.)


But what a wonderful jibe!

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2005, 10:08:05 pm »
But what a wonderful jibe!


:P

It's all meant in good humour...

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2005, 10:13:02 pm »
My Dad actually has a Sinclair C5, sadly I never got to drive it as it stayed in the box. Think its going on Ebay.
Incidentally, are you saying that you prefer the hurling of catty epithets to hurling broken seats at each other? If one replaces the other then...meeeaoww. Isnt it half the fun of the forum?
Sticks and stones may break my bones but hastily typed catty epithets will never hurt me...type thing
« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 10:16:03 pm by JamesRed »

Offline Revenge of the Sixth

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2005, 10:18:15 pm »
Thanks for the read Paul.

Offline jfpower

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2005, 10:18:56 pm »
Liverpool are European Champions. A fact that sounds good without any spin.

Good article as always.

Offline lurker

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2005, 10:27:39 pm »

Lying

Apparently, "the league table doesn't lie".

To my mind, the table is only "correct" once every team has played one and other home and away. But even then it doesn't take into account exceptional circumstances, such as unprecedented injury lists, and having Mike Riley referee your matches. All things being equal, the table wouldn't lie; but all things are never equal. It's part of the fun of football, but it's also a misleading element.


I'd add to that (in true spinning fashion) that the league table does lie if one team play 38 games but the other play 38 league games plus a full CL campaign right to the final.... oh, that wondrous, miraculous final... d'ya remember that night Moyesy...great night for football, wasn't it Moyesy....  ;D

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2005, 10:30:09 pm »
I'd add to that (in true spinning fashion) that the league table does lie if one team play 38 games but the other play 38 league games plus a full CL campaign right to the final.... oh, that wondrous, miraculous final... d'ya remember that night Moyesy...great night for football, wasn't it Moyesy....  ;D


That's my gist in "Golden Past, Red Future" on the issue. Difficult to compare when the two teams had radically different demands in between league games.

Of course, it was Liverpool's job to overcome such obstacles...

Offline TheGaffa

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2005, 10:38:02 pm »
See if this article can make it's way on to ITV's website aswell as this one...
http://www.itv-football.co.uk/Features/story_156973.shtml

Unless I'm guessing it's old news. Well done anyway.
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Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2005, 10:38:29 pm »
Great read Paul, and by the way I bought your book the other day, I'm about half way through it, great up to now.

Offline tommyc

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2005, 10:39:11 pm »
How does that theory stand up to the fact that in previous European Cup winning seasons we played in a bigger domestic league, had a smaller squad and lower levels of fitness?  ???

Offline Mad1

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2005, 10:48:13 pm »
Third of your posts I've read enjoyed them all so I've just ordered your book cheers

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2005, 10:56:00 pm »
great read as usual , i didn't know Reina had turned down the Mancs , when did he do that then?
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Offline Red1234

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2005, 11:00:37 pm »
Great read :wellin

i didn't know Reina had turned down the Mancs , when did he do that then?

Me neither

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2005, 11:01:48 pm »
It was rumoured* that Reina turned down the Mans earlier this Summer in order to join the glorious rafalution at the capital of football.






*by Reinas agent.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2005, 11:01:55 pm »
How does that theory stand up to the fact that in previous European Cup winning seasons we played in a bigger domestic league, had a smaller squad and lower levels of fitness?  ???


Game was far less physically demanding back then. No teams used to get more than a few injuries, as there was less over-exertion. Quicker game these days, more mental pressure, more physical pressure. Loads of reasons really, a whole other debate, perhaps.

But we did come 5th in 1981 while winning the European Cup. That was with a more settled, more experienced side managed by a legend in his seventh season in charge.


great read as usual , i didn't know Reina had turned down the Mancs , when did he do that then?


Unless I imagined it, I'm sure I read it the other day. Can't recall where...


Great read Paul, and by the way I bought your book the other day, I'm about half way through it, great up to now.
Third of your posts I've read enjoyed them all so I've just ordered your book cheers


 :wave
« Last Edit: July 17, 2005, 11:04:02 pm by Paul Tomkins »

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2005, 11:02:36 pm »
now that i've spent a bit of time reading posts on RAWK, i feel i can make this qualified observation: great read....  keep em coming!
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2005, 11:03:23 pm »
It was rumoured* that Reina turned down the Mans earlier this Summer in order to join the glorious rafalution at the capital of football.






*by Reinas agent.



That's good enough for me!  ;D

Might just be PR on his agent's part, always looks good if you turned down Man U to join Liverpool. But until they signed van der Saar, Utd were in the hunt for a quality keeper...

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2005, 11:07:18 pm »
But until they signed van der Saar, Utd were in the hunt for a quality keeper...
And have been for a delightful number of years!
Though their spin would be that you can't replace the irreplaceable...

Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2005, 11:08:34 pm »
But until they signed van der Saar, Utd were in the hunt for a quality keeper...

So they still haven't found one...

Offline jfpower

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2005, 11:12:08 pm »
And have been for a delightful number of years!

And will be again in the very near future.

I personally don't rate van der Sar, but regardless he isn't the youngest keeper in the league.

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2005, 11:13:18 pm »
Good article Paul. After reading the 1st paragraph I knew the subject of Peter Crouch wasn't far away  ;)

Offline snez1

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2005, 11:26:00 pm »
Enjoyed that Paul.  Your book was spot on too ;)

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2005, 11:26:49 pm »
Good article (as always)

I have your book Paul, and another recently purchased tome, my lad and I are arguing for reading rights. I am desperate to utilize the long lazy summer afternoons immersing myself in the magical tale of a wizard, battling dark forces, forging a path true and good.............
but he wont give me Golden Past Red future and I'm stuck with bloody Potter.
Great read, keep it up. :wave
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           even better tomorrow.

Offline The Albert Cock

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2005, 11:29:39 pm »
sound that Paul.

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2005, 01:41:59 am »
Great read once again Paul XD
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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2005, 01:42:45 am »
Have just finished reading GPRF last night - liked it very much although some parts were a case of deja vu. Fantastic read, nonetheless. Well done!!

I know you've mentioned Moyes in your attack on the spin doctors but what irks me most are (young & naive) Liverpool supporters discrediting Rafa for wanting to buy players such as Crouch, etc. After all, he'd only just won the biggest prize in European football, the biggest prize in Spain's domestic league twice and the 2nd biggest prize in European football.

It doesn't take much skill and vision to pay top dollars for a player already a big name. However, it is the true master of the game to pick relatively unknown talents, nurture them or harness their talents on the big stage. Xabi Alonso may not be the best example for that amount of money we paid, it's a great, great steal. Let's hope Momo turns out to be another "gem" that Rafa unearths. Or 'Speedy' Gonzalez when he recovers from injury.

Whatever the spin doctors are saying, I believe that Liverpool will make heads turn in the league this season. Rafa's brought in some very good players and our forwards are healthy and raring to go. Bring on season 2005/06!

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2005, 08:02:34 am »
I have your book Paul, and another recently purchased tome, my lad and I are arguing for reading rights. I am desperate to utilize the long lazy summer afternoons immersing myself in the magical tale of a wizard, battling dark forces, forging a path true and good.............
but he wont give me Golden Past Red future and I'm stuck with bloody Potter.


 ;D

 :wave

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2005, 08:17:04 am »
Great read Paul.

Nice to see that your planned sabbatical from crafting these articles was shortlived........or are you still going !
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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2005, 08:34:22 am »
Nice to see that your planned sabbatical from crafting these articles was shortlived........or are you still going !


I wanted to take a break, but with the book finished it's not been too time consuming to knock out an article or two a week.  :wave

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2005, 09:01:04 am »
and if he doesn't we'll release the pictures ;)
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2005, 09:18:46 am »
and if he doesn't we'll release the pictures ;)


Hey, I'm sticking to my story: that the sheep gave its full written consent...

 :-[

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2005, 09:19:03 am »
Moyes was right for claiming that Everton are competing against the likes of Liverpool for top players, its just that he loses every time ;D
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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2005, 09:45:51 am »
This is really funny... I saw this topic up last night- deciding I'd read it today... I didn't know what it was about.

Anyway, so I was on MSN speaking to a friend who is in Canada at the moment. And that's where it started... "Figo's past it" he said- Manure fan that he is.

"What?! So's Keane, Scholes and Giggs"
"Maybe Keane but not Scholes and Giggs"
"Whatever, we've now got a better midfield than yours"
"hahahahahaha- what?! Keane, Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes"
"Yeah and? Gerrard, Alonso, Kewell and Garcia- I'll admit that Ronaldo's good though"

....

"Where did you finish in the league?"
"Where did YOU finish in the Champs league?- Don't tell me you'd rather finish 3rd and win fuck all than come 5th and win the champs league"

- And so the argument was won! Hahaha! Sometimes they like to put a bit of "reverse- spin" and say "well in that case we beat the champions of Europe twice"... To which I counter "So what, at the end of the day you won jack shit... if someone had told me we would win the European Cup but lose to Manure twice- I would have said- Where do I sign?!"

 ;D Nice one Paul- great timing as well...
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2005, 10:45:31 am »
"well in that case we beat the champions of Europe twice"...


I was going to mention that very line of "logic", as it bugs me.

By that reasoning, Birmingham are the best side in Europe.

Man Utd frequently get beat by Bolton; does that make Bolton the better side? Of course not...

Offline fudge

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2005, 10:53:58 am »
Unless I imagined it, I'm sure I read it the other day. Can't recall where...

Oh right more spin then ;D
Rubber Dinghy Rapids....

Offline BazC

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2005, 11:00:43 am »

I was going to mention that very line of "logic", as it bugs me.

By that reasoning, Birmingham are the best side in Europe.

Man Utd frequently get beat by Bolton; does that make Bolton the better side? Of course not...

Lol, it is very stupid- it's like clutching at straw- stupid Mancs!
“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline blurred

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2005, 04:21:06 pm »
Nice to see a return of the dead clay-sculpting monkey, Mr T.

Top stuff as always fella :wave

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2005, 04:31:21 pm »
Nice to see a return of the dead clay-sculpting monkey, Mr T.



I may start writing a TV detective series about an artistic cop and his small, hairy sidekick, with the show called Michelangelo and the Monkey.

Or maybe not...

 :P

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: Discrediting Liverpool - the world's best spin doctors
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2005, 05:33:31 pm »

I may start writing a TV detective series about an artistic cop and his small, hairy sidekick, with the show called Michelangelo and the Monkey.

Or maybe not...

 :P

Yeah, please don't ;D

Good read Paul :wave