Author Topic: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation  (Read 8653 times)

Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2013, 06:22:11 pm »
A problem with having a system is you need to have not 11 players but 18 players capable of playing that system to keep the squad fit. Easier for Utd to do as the have a rolling system in place unlike us. Hard for Barca but getting better as they get into that rolling movement.

When you are struggling to compete you need to be more adaptable. The player you can afford wont always suit your system. Especially the back up players. 
Why are you looking past this season?

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2013, 12:38:55 am »
I think its difficult to assess what BR wants to do as opposed to what he's obliged to do given his resources

He's used his players flexibly - Henderson and Downing at fullback, Enrique left mid - is that out of choice - trying to get his experienced players on the pitch - due to form? We dont really know the answers.

Are Allen and Sterling being rested having been run into the floor or simply out of form?

I think its only really going to be possible to understand BR's approach when he has a proper squad to utilise - until recently he didn't even have one player per position let alone two
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2013, 01:00:02 am »
I think its difficult to assess what BR wants to do as opposed to what he's obliged to do given his resources

He's used his players flexibly - Henderson and Downing at fullback, Enrique left mid - is that out of choice - trying to get his experienced players on the pitch - due to form? We dont really know the answers.

Are Allen and Sterling being rested having been run into the floor or simply out of form?

I think its only really going to be possible to understand BR's approach when he has a proper squad to utilise - until recently he didn't even have one player per position let alone two

The surprise for me given we had a run of Arsenal, City and WBA with an international in between was that none of the summer signings Borini, Allen or Assaidi getting a start add in the paucity of minutes given to Sahin and it is pretty hard to have too much sympathy for the manager.

The worrying thing for me is there is a real possibility of no European football next season. Without that what opportunities are there going to be for the younger players and fringe players to get games and to force their way into the side the way Henderson has.
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Offline smig

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2013, 01:13:13 am »
The defence needs to be looked at over the summer for me. We've proven all year long that when we're under sustained pressure we can't hold onto one goal leads or keep clean sheets. The players we have are just too prone to individual errors and lapses in concentration. We need to build from the back again. It was the first issue Houllier addressed when he came in and it ultimately won us a lot of points before things began to unravel towards the end of his reign. I can't remember the last time we held out to earn a scruffy 1-0 away from home.
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Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2013, 01:21:30 am »
The surprise for me given we had a run of Arsenal, City and WBA with an international in between was that none of the summer signings Borini, Allen or Assaidi getting a start add in the paucity of minutes given to Sahin and it is pretty hard to have too much sympathy for the manager.

The worrying thing for me is there is a real possibility of no European football next season. Without that what opportunities are there going to be for the younger players and fringe players to get games and to force their way into the side the way Henderson has.

the younger players can always be loaned out - the U21 league is also improving - we'll still have places in the squad after next summer - hopefully holes we're planning to put our best youngsters into

selection has to be the perogative of the manager - we dont know the performances in training, we dont know the niggles, the virus's , the sleepless nights, family problems, Borini is coming back from injury, Allen's form has deserted him,  Assaidi the jury is out  I've no idea why he's been so little used - Sahin was an odd deal and didn't work out - it happens -

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Offline woof

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2013, 01:40:49 am »
I wrote this somewhere else:

Brendan Rodgers needs to learn from the loss against WBA. Tactically, there was nothing wrong. Where he got wrong was to start players who were coming back from international duties. Fatigue was an important factor here. Because of it, we lacked the crispness and cutting edge in our passing, which is what the Liverpool team is built on. He should have not started Gerrard, Johnson and Suarez... all whom played in meaningless international friendlies.

We need a back up team who can still play Rodgers' style of football and perhaps get a positive result when Team A is 'fatigued'. I think it's a valid concern. Good players don't suddenly play so badly (in the case of Johnson).

Offline DJ_Polly12

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2013, 05:44:03 am »
It wasn't one of Verheijen's, was it?

Nah it wasn't mate.  April Heinrichs, one of the US national team's technical directors and the lass in charge at Arsenal's Womens academy (can't for the life of me remember her name).

But after reading a little more into Verheijen's methods, it would be extremely similarly linked. With the FFA (Football Federation Australia) falling under Han Berger's reign at the moment and the massive dutch influence we had through Guus Hiddink through to the complete restructure of our technical development department, very very similarly linked. I had a slide show dedicated to the ideas and philosophies presented to the 125 of us coach's I will try and get hold of, as I reckon it will mirror some elements in this thread quite well.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2013, 03:05:52 pm »
the younger players can always be loaned out - the U21 league is also improving - we'll still have places in the squad after next summer - hopefully holes we're planning to put our best youngsters into

selection has to be the perogative of the manager - we dont know the performances in training, we dont know the niggles, the virus's , the sleepless nights, family problems, Borini is coming back from injury, Allen's form has deserted him,  Assaidi the jury is out  I've no idea why he's been so little used - Sahin was an odd deal and didn't work out - it happens -



The problems are that we don't have a great track record of loaning out youngsters, Pacheco's U21 performances were probably the best of the bunch yet he was never really given a chance and if we don't have European Football then how many chances are the youngsters going to get. The owners have made it abundantly clear that they want us to bring through our own youngsters, if you look at the two teams that have been able to do that and still compete at the top of the table United and Arsenal they have both rotated pretty heavily.

If you look at the Arsenal, City and WBA games we had unlike the start off the season a high average age and almost exclusively players that we had last season. As a Club we need to decide if we are prepared for a bit of short term pain in return for long term gains down the line. Otherwise the core of the group is going to get older and we are going to be left with very experienced older players who are being run into the ground and a group of stagnating young players who aren't getting games.
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Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2013, 03:37:29 pm »
The problems are that we don't have a great track record of loaning out youngsters, Pacheco's U21 performances were probably the best of the bunch yet he was never really given a chance and if we don't have European Football then how many chances are the youngsters going to get. The owners have made it abundantly clear that they want us to bring through our own youngsters, if you look at the two teams that have been able to do that and still compete at the top of the table United and Arsenal they have both rotated pretty heavily.

If you look at the Arsenal, City and WBA games we had unlike the start off the season a high average age and almost exclusively players that we had last season. As a Club we need to decide if we are prepared for a bit of short term pain in return for long term gains down the line. Otherwise the core of the group is going to get older and we are going to be left with very experienced older players who are being run into the ground and a group of stagnating young players who aren't getting games.

both arsenal and united use the loan system very well - our youngsters haven't quite been good enough for premier league experience but hopefully the new batch coming through will be and that will be of great benefit
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2013, 04:20:51 pm »
both arsenal and united use the loan system very well - our youngsters haven't quite been good enough for premier league experience but hopefully the new batch coming through will be and that will be of great benefit

Isn't it a case of a virtuous circle though mate, Arsenal and United have a history of producing quality players so teams want to loan their players, to keep on loaning their players they have to play them, young players getting games gain experience and become better players and the circle continues.

We haven't got that track record or that incentive for teams to play our loan players.
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Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2013, 05:15:59 pm »
Isn't it a case of a virtuous circle though mate, Arsenal and United have a history of producing quality players so teams want to loan their players, to keep on loaning their players they have to play them, young players getting games gain experience and become better players and the circle continues.

We haven't got that track record or that incentive for teams to play our loan players.

 its a valid point but having given Coates, Suso, Shelvey, Robinson, Flanagan, Wisdom, Sterling some games its more likely a club would want to pick them up - previously we'd have been offering Darby, Spearing, Pacheco players that with all the best will in the world are not top quality - I think its been more about the quality of the player than the status of the club - I've been wrong before though all too often :)

McLoughlin will be interesting next season, I think the lad is special  and Flanagan we just dont have the luxury of 5 right backs - they'll need games. Suso likewise needs game experience but is unlikley to get much for us - Shelvey is going backwards because of lack of time on the pitch - and we have more talent coming through who can fill out squad places like Ibe , Sama etc - we'll need to do something with them all



The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2013, 07:18:59 pm »
its a valid point but having given Coates, Suso, Shelvey, Robinson, Flanagan, Wisdom, Sterling some games its more likely a club would want to pick them up - previously we'd have been offering Darby, Spearing, Pacheco players that with all the best will in the world are not top quality - I think its been more about the quality of the player than the status of the club - I've been wrong before though all too often :)

McLoughlin will be interesting next season, I think the lad is special  and Flanagan we just dont have the luxury of 5 right backs - they'll need games. Suso likewise needs game experience but is unlikley to get much for us - Shelvey is going backwards because of lack of time on the pitch - and we have more talent coming through who can fill out squad places like Ibe , Sama etc - we'll need to do something with them all


A lot of those players are our squad players though who we cannot really afford to loan out, we need to find a way of having enough numbers to cope with injuries but enough game time to keep the squad progressing. For me that is rotating and keeping everyone fit, fresh and motivated. Lower down the system we can let players go out on loan but for me we are still lacking in depth in and around the first team.
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Offline Vulmea

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2013, 08:41:06 pm »
A lot of those players are our squad players though who we cannot really afford to loan out, we need to find a way of having enough numbers to cope with injuries but enough game time to keep the squad progressing. For me that is rotating and keeping everyone fit, fresh and motivated. Lower down the system we can let players go out on loan but for me we are still lacking in depth in and around the first team.

would you think sterling is a squad player? I think he's adding nothing to the side - Shelvey , Suso, etc could all be playing regularly elsewhere and gaining the expereience they need instead of costing us from not having it - but I can see what your saying
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Systems - Rotation Rotation Rotation
« Reply #53 on: March 9, 2013, 12:47:12 pm »
Rafa on the ManU squad today...

"If you analyse the squad they have, they have four strikers and two players in each position that could play for any team. They have a strong squad and even when they make changes they keep the quality," said the Spaniard.

"In attack, they have Chicharito, [Danny] Welbeck, [Wayne] Rooney and [Robin] Van Persie, and they can play any of them.

"If you look at the players they have in wide areas and in the middle, especially if they are winning, in the last 20 minutes they still have players like [Ryan] Giggs and [Paul] Scholes to bring on."


That΄s the most important reason for their ability to stay within top two/three while playing CL every season for such a long time. We could see how much of a difference Sturridge and Coutinho made for our play as well as others. But what if you got only ONE player from this quality around? As a consequence, the performance will suffer..
« Last Edit: March 9, 2013, 12:49:48 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10