Topic: Arsenal

[Cliff Bastin]

So did Man United before Ferguson.

Ferguson was winning league titles in abundance before he left and so the next man coming in was on the end of a beating regardless. Not the case with Wenger. The comparison between Ferguson and Wenger doesn't add up except the years in charge.

[Nessy76]

I wouldn't go overboard. We did exist prior to 1996. We actually achieved a hell of a lot in English football before Wenger turned up at Arsenal too.

Where is Bruce Rioch these days?

[thelinnen]

Ferguson was winning league titles in abundance before he left and so the next man coming in was on the end of a beating regardless. Not the case with Wenger. The comparison between Ferguson and Wenger doesn't add up except the years in charge.

The years in charge are precisely why the comparison is apt. Everything at the club has been done Wenger's way for over 20 years. If him leaving doesn't have an adverse effect on the club in the short term I'd be amazed.

[Cliff Bastin]

The years in charge are precisely why the comparison is apt. Everything at the club has been done Wenger's way for over 20 years. If him leaving doesn't have an adverse effect on the club in the short term I'd be amazed.

It will have an affect but that doesn't mean negative. It can have a great positive, like winning the league again. You can't just keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, that is madness.

[zero zero]

I wouldn't go overboard. We did exist prior to 1996. We actually achieved a hell of a lot in English football before Wenger turned up at Arsenal too.

Yes, you were boring, boring Arsenal and revelled in your 1-0 wins.

It's a shame to read how little you appreciate what he's done for your club.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Yes, you were boring, boring Arsenal and revelled in your 1-0 wins.

It's a shame to read how little you appreciate what he's done for your club.

To be fair, I haven't seen any Gooner on here (or anywhere for that matter) not appreciate what Wenger's done for the club. They're perfectly entitled to want a change and shouldn't have to keep him as manager forever just because he used to be very good.

Cliff's not wrong either in saying Arsenal achieved a lot before he arrived. They were the 3rd biggest club in England when he arrived, not some lower league strugglers.

[PaulF]

Peak Rafa vs peak Wenger?
(steps back to watch the fireworks)

[ElCapo]

I think Massimo Allegri might be available in the summer, and not a bad option for Arsenal.  Has won leagues with Milan and Juve, taken the latter to the CL final, so he's got a good CV.  Not sure how good English is, but then again it doesn't seem to hinder Conte that much.

Plus with the recent tradition of Italian coaches winning the league, it'd be a smart bet

[Xabi Gerrard]

Peak Rafa vs peak Wenger?
(steps back to watch the fireworks)

Peak Rafa won 2 league titles (beating 2 financial giants) and the Champions League with Traore and Baros in the team.

Peak Wenger won 3 league titles (beating 1 financial giant for the first 2 and 2 financial giants for the third).

I'll save you a lot of bother. We'll all go with Rafa. Gooners will all go with Wenger.

[CHOPPER]

Peak Rafa vs peak Wenger?
(steps back to watch the fireworks)

Wafa Renger

[Dim Glas]

Wenger can't overcome that little problem that he's got such an underwhelming record in Europe. All those champions league apperances, and only one final, and one other semi final to show for it.

[CHOPPER]

Wenger can't overcome that little problem that he's got such an underwhelming record in Europe. All those champions league apperances, and only one final, and one other semi final to show for it.

He's the European version of the fat kid at the disco who can't get a slowy or a neck. 

[PaulF]

Peak Wenger won 3 league titles (beating 1 financial giant for the first 2 and 2 financial giants for the third).

No pot for it, but a place in history for the Invincibles.

It was a daft question from me really, but I do wonder what we'd have achieved if he'd come here instead. (And would we be split on wanting him to stay)

[Cliff Bastin]

Well he certainly would have stopped Liverpool's title drought by bringing in all those world class players he had sign for Arsenal.

[Cliff Bastin]

Yes, you were boring, boring Arsenal and revelled in your 1-0 wins.

It's a shame to read how little you appreciate what he's done for your club.

I love what Wenger has done for Arsenal and the evolution of the club is great. But he has been in the job for 20 years now. It is now stale for me and I think he needs to just give it up now. If he can't win the league for Arsenal, he should not be the manager anymore.

[MagicHat]

I really disagree that Arsenal should indulge in nepotism and reckless behaviour by appointing to such a key role that could set the club back decades people who have never managed becuase they could kick a ball a bit.

Yes, you were boring, boring Arsenal and revelled in your 1-0 wins.

It's a shame to read how little you appreciate what he's done for your club.

We were the club of Chapman, Highbury, Bastin, Alex James, Mee, George Graham, Brady, we won Fa Cups, leagues, even in Europe before Wenger came along. Sure, that included 1-0 wins and that made a lot of fans happy.

Wenger will always always be a legend for Arsenal, one of and arguably the greatest figure in our history. However We had a proud (and sometimes not so proud ) history before him and I think it is extremely disrespectful to those that came before to dismiss that.

[Nessy76]

I really disagree that Arsenal should indulge in nepotism and reckless behaviour by appointing to such a key role that could set the club back decades people who have never managed becuase they could kick a ball a bit.


We were the club of Chapman, Highbury, Bastin, Alex James, Mee, George Graham, Brady, we won Fa Cups, leagues, even in Europe before Wenger came along. Sure, that included 1-0 wins and that made a lot of fans happy.

Wenger will always always be a legend for Arsenal, one of and arguably the greatest figure in our history. However We had a proud (and sometimes not so proud ) history before him and I think it is extremely disrespectful to those that came before to dismiss that.

Heaven forbid rival football supporters should disrespect one another's histories. What is the world coming to?

[MagicHat]

Heaven forbid rival football supporters should disrespect one another's histories. What is the world coming to?

Teasing about each other's history is fine, be a sad sad day if we could never do that. If that is all zero zero was doing, I apologize.

Seriously arguing (and it is something I have come across before) we should be grateful to Wenger becuase we were nothing before him? That is what I was objecting to. Again if he just pulling the leg, my apologies but as I said, I have known people who really believe the kind of thing he was saying.

[Gerry Attrick]

I think Sampaoli would be a good choice for Arsenal. I don't know how strong his English is but Arsenal have a squad that would be well suited to his methods. To be fair there's a number of options that Arsenal could seriously consider. Hasenhuttl, Tuchel, Sampaoli, Nagelsmann and Howe are all managers who have their team playing dynamic and attacking footie. They'd need some time after taking over from a legend like Wenger but I think they'd all freshen Arsenal up and bring in new ideas or philosophies.

[thelinnen]

I would have loved the guy to have been our manager, he's a class act.

[Something Worse]

Peak Rafa vs peak Wenger?
(steps back to watch the fireworks)

For Liverpool in 2004, Rafa.

For Arsenal in 1996, Wenger.

Wouldn't trade Rafa for anyone. Maybe we'd be better off now if we'd had Wenger in 1996, but it's impossible to say. I wouldn't trade Istanbul for a league title, or even many.

[zero zero]

Teasing about each other's history is fine, be a sad sad day if we could never do that. If that is all zero zero was doing, I apologize.

Seriously arguing (and it is something I have come across before) we should be grateful to Wenger becuase we were nothing before him? That is what I was objecting to. Again if he just pulling the leg, my apologies but as I said, I have known people who really believe the kind of thing he was saying.

Wow! You really did get the wrong end of the stick there (probably due to me only posting a single line). So, let me clear one thing up and then expand on my earlier point. The Marble Halls of Highbury were real and show that Arsenal were a big and successful club long before Wenger turned up. I wasn't dismissing your past achievements in any way.

My point, (poorly made) was to highlight one of the things that some Arsenal fans now take for granted - the type football you've grown accustomed to watching. There was a time when Arsenal were famous for boring, dour football. Snapshot memories of my youth involving Arsenal have Tony Adams appealing for offside and then applauding the linesman afterward. And that Michael Thomas goal and celebration, obviously. Wenger has built difficult to beat sides, trophy-winning sides, and sides that were genuinely exhilarating going forward.

I've heard Simeone being mooted as a possible successor to Wenger, but is that really the type of football you want to watch. Sure, Simeone is a winner and gettable from an Arsenal point of view, but the football his teams play leaves me cold. I'm very thankful we have Klopp. Nothing highlights the difference in systems than when I watch our players representing England. Lallana and Henderson are crucial cogs in how we play, but stick them in the England set up and they are part of a team playing awful to watch football.

I love what Wenger has done for Arsenal and the evolution of the club is great. But he has been in the job for 20 years now. It is now stale for me and I think he needs to just give it up now. If he can't win the league for Arsenal, he should not be the manager anymore.

How is it "stale" at this point in the season? As Liverpool fans, we think we still have a shot at the title. No doubt Tottenham fans think the same. You're a point behind us.

Why not give it a try? We haven't won the league for 12 years, Wenger doesn't know how to win the league now. I'd rather fail miserably while having a go than settle for top 4 mediocrity. I am not arsed about finishing in the Champions League places every season. If anything I would prefer if we weren't in the competition for a few years.

The Europa league would be a new experience, something different. The main issue is boredom among our fanbase right now, lets try something different.

This screams entitlement. So, you take a little holiday in the Europa League for a bit of variety and come back when you want. Except there are now six teams competing for those four places. You take your holiday and you don't know when you'll be back. And then you might find that securing players like Ozil, Sanchez and even Mustafi won't be so easy when all you've got is away trips to Rubin Kazan to tempt them.

We've seen this entitlement with sections of our own fan base. Who cares if you're ranked no.1 in Europe if Rafa "doesn't understand" the league. You are of course entitled to want a change of manager but you better pray whoever makes the decsion has the right man lined up before you do it.

[Cliff Bastin]

How is it "stale" at this point in the season? As Liverpool fans, we think we still have a shot at the title. No doubt Tottenham fans think the same. You're a point behind us.

But its not just this season is it? Its been going on for over a decade now. Arsenal fans are sick of it at this stage. Being a point behind Liverpool is irrelevant because we aren't going to catch Chelsea. For the last 3-4 years we start every league season not being ready, the team is just thrown together on the first day.

A manager who is prepared doesn't let that happen.

[Cliff Bastin]

This screams entitlement. So, you take a little holiday in the Europa League for a bit of variety and come back when you want. Except there are now six teams competing for those four places. You take your holiday and you don't know when you'll be back. And then you might find that securing players like Ozil, Sanchez and even Mustafi won't be so easy when all you've got is away trips to Rubin Kazan to tempt them.

We haven't got past the last 16 for over 6 years now, with plenty of embarrassing performances along the way. What is the point of being in the elite European competition if you aren't going to try and make an actual impact on the competition. Man City have made more of an impact in the last 6 years than us.

[zero zero]

But its not just this season is it? Its been going on for over a decade now. Arsenal fans are sick of it at this stage. Being a point behind Liverpool is irrelevant because we aren't going to catch Chelsea.

Genuinely don't no what to say to this. Seventeen games to go and you've given up? What are you going to do for the rest of the season?

Who do you have in mind to replace Wenger?

We haven't got past the last 16 for over 6 years now, with plenty of embarrassing performances along the way. What is the point of being in the elite European competition if you aren't going to try and make an actual impact on the competition. Man City have made more of an impact in the last 6 years than us.

Annoying when those plucky underdogs at City get their day in the sun. What do you mean by impact, anyway?

[Ashburton]

I don't believe anyone has given up, however, currently in 4th place with the 2nd half of the season involving more difficult away games than the first half, will require the team to play significantly better than they have done so far, in order to win it.  Currently Wenger's side has proven to perform poorly against the top sides (as per usual), with only the Chelsea game a standout exception.

Perhaps more importantly, the team hasn't been playing very well all season, has been relying on last gasp goals from Giroud, and Sanchez to pull off something amazing.  Chelsea, Liverpool and City have all gone through periods of looking very, very good - Arsenal are yet to find that part of the season, and with European games coming up again there is a real risk of dropping points, and dropping out of the title race completely.

[Cliff Bastin]

Genuinely don't no what to say to this. Seventeen games to go and you've given up? What are you going to do for the rest of the season?

Who do you have in mind to replace Wenger?Annoying when those plucky underdogs at City get their day in the sun. What do you mean by impact, anyway?

We have been awful all season. I will watch all our remaining games but I am only looking forward to the cup games now. Impact by reaching the Semi final or final. Trying to put some sort of stamp on the tournament, now exiting in a pathetic drubbing.

[ElCapo]

I get the fans' frustration with Wenger and the need to change, but I also see why the owners love him.

When Arsene was hired 20 years ago, Arsenal's revenue was inferior to likes of Newcastle, Parma, Ajax, AS Roma etc.  Now they earn comfortably more than teams with much better pedigree such as Milan, Inter and Juve.  They also earn more than Chelsea which arguably have been more successful over the last decade and a half.  Arsenal earn more than Spurs, Liverpool, Borussia, Atletico etc.  That's all due to the successful transition into the new stadium, coupled with the TV deals, commercial sales, as well prudence exercised in the transfer market. 

At the end of the day, the owners will chose what to do with Wenger, and the reasons highlighted above they have no reason to get rid of him.

Enjoy Top4 Gooners!

[MagicHat]

I've heard Simeone being mooted as a possible successor to Wenger, but is that really the type of football you want to watch. Sure, Simeone is a winner and gettable from an Arsenal point of view, but the football his teams play leaves me cold. I'm very thankful we have Klopp. Nothing highlights the difference in systems than when I watch our players representing England. Lallana and Henderson are crucial cogs in how we play, but stick them in the England set up and they are part of a team playing awful to watch football.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The style vs trophies was a big topic among Arsenal fans, partly divided on age, for awhile till Wenger's style went a tad boring (thankfully recovered around two years ago). If we got a Simone, after the initial joy particularly if we won trophies, one wonders how large the split would be over style within 2-3 years. We don't have to appoint Simone and sacrifice style though

How is it "stale" at this point in the season? As Liverpool fans, we think we still have a shot at the title. No doubt Tottenham fans think the same. You're a point behind us.

While your right, we should be looking at chasing you guys and hoping Chelsea mess up, each weekend I'm looking at the teams just below us, not above. I don't know any Arsenal fan who sees this as a season where we fight for the title anymore, I think we have seen the pattern too many times before, there isn't a belief Wenger is about to tighten up our leaky defence, find the right midfield combination and start a strong winning run.

This screams entitlement. So, you take a little holiday in the Europa League for a bit of variety and come back when you want. Except there are now six teams competing for those four places. You take your holiday and you don't know when you'll be back. And then you might find that securing players like Ozil, Sanchez and even Mustafi won't be so easy when all you've got is away trips to Rubin Kazan to tempt them.

We've seen this entitlement with sections of our own fan base. Who cares if you're ranked no.1 in Europe if Rafa "doesn't understand" the league. You are of course entitled to want a change of manager but you better pray whoever makes the decsion has the right man lined up before you do it.

I'm with you on this one, I have never understood the "go for Europa" as if a year or two out would have no damage to us and that we would get back easily. I ,at least partly, think it is from people who oversell Wenger as a bad manager (he isn't, I may want him gone but he is still a good manager) and that anyone half-decent will restore us to glory.

[Xabi Gerrard]

The style vs trophies was a big topic among Arsenal fans, partly divided on age, for awhile till Wenger's style went a tad boring (thankfully recovered around two years ago). If we got a Simone, after the initial joy particularly if we won trophies, one wonders how large the split would be over style within 2-3 years. We don't have to appoint Simone and sacrifice style though

A couple of questions over this style v trophies thing.

1) Is Wengers style really that great that it's even a topic amongst Arsenal fans about whether it's more important than trophies? Moves like the Wilshere goal v Norwich are more of an anomoly than the norm. 'Sterile Possession' is probably the phrase that encapsulates Arsenal best over the last decade. Are any Arsenal fans really so attached to it that they question whether it's more important than success?

2) Even if the style was that amazing and made the game experience really enjoyable, do any football fans prefer that to the joy of winning trophies? I know, for example, Newcastle and West Ham fans pride themselves on playing a certain way which they expect from their managers, but isn't that just a case of prefering to underachieve in a fun, enjoyable way, rather than underachieve in a dour way? If either was in the position to actually win things I'm pretty sure none of their fans would give a shit about not "playing the West Ham way". In fact, Newcastle fans seem to be pretty delirious at the moment that they have Rafa, whose risk averse style is the antithesis of the gung ho swashbuckling 'Newcastle Way'. But they don't give a shit as he's brilliant and taking them places.

I guess what I'm getting at is would any sane Arsenal fan really give a shit about playing Simeone's style of football if he was getting them to be real contenders for the league and Champions League every year? I think they'd absolutely love the success and glory for way longer than 2-3 years and he'd be a great appointment for them.

[Cliff Bastin]

We went for a period of beautiful football with Hleb, Fabregas, Rosicky, Van Persie. I remember we played Liverpool at Anfield in Champions League Quarter Final and the first twenty minutes we completely bamboozled Liverpool with brilliant football which lead to Diaby scoring.

But we won nothing playing like that. Then you have the 13/14 season, we go to a more conservative type football, we relied more on set pieces, played a more direct style of play and won a trophy at last. Not that it was like Stoke or anything close but it was more dull than usual but it worked.

We haven't played beautiful football as a team collectively since the days of Fabregas.

[Ashburton]

I get the fans' frustration with Wenger and the need to change, but I also see why the owners love him.

When Arsene was hired 20 years ago, Arsenal's revenue was inferior to likes of Newcastle, Parma, Ajax, AS Roma etc.  Now they earn comfortably more than teams with much better pedigree such as Milan, Inter and Juve.  They also earn more than Chelsea which arguably have been more successful over the last decade and a half.  Arsenal earn more than Spurs, Liverpool, Borussia, Atletico etc.  That's all due to the successful transition into the new stadium, coupled with the TV deals, commercial sales, as well prudence exercised in the transfer market. 

At the end of the day, the owners will chose what to do with Wenger, and the reasons highlighted above they have no reason to get rid of him.

Enjoy Top4 Gooners!

2 year extension guaranteed, I'm surprised the bookies are even taking bets on it.

[MagicHat]

A couple of questions over this style v trophies thing.

1) Is Wengers style really that great that it's even a topic amongst Arsenal fans about whether it's more important than trophies? Moves like the Wilshere goal v Norwich are more of an anomoly than the norm. 'Sterile Possession' is probably the phrase that encapsulates Arsenal best over the last decade. Are any Arsenal fans really so attached to it that they question whether it's more important than success?

2) Even if the style was that amazing and made the game experience really enjoyable, do any football fans prefer that to the joy of winning trophies? I know, for example, Newcastle and West Ham fans pride themselves on playing a certain way which they expect from their managers, but isn't that just a case of prefering to underachieve in a fun, enjoyable way, rather than underachieve in a dour way? If either was in the position to actually win things I'm pretty sure none of their fans would give a shit about not "playing the West Ham way". In fact, Newcastle fans seem to be pretty delirious at the moment that they have Rafa, whose risk averse style is the antithesis of the gung ho swashbuckling 'Newcastle Way'. But they don't give a shit as he's brilliant and taking them places.

I guess what I'm getting at is would any sane Arsenal fan really give a shit about playing Simeone's style of football if he was getting them to be real contenders for the league and Champions League every year? I think they'd absolutely love the success and glory for way longer than 2-3 years and he'd be a great appointment for them.

1) It was. I think it partly ended becuase even the pro-Wenger figures felt we had got prone to "the opposition is caught upfield, we could break! Nope, let's play 5 yard passes in our own half till every opposition player has got behind the ball" until fairly recently. While both sides of the split tended to exaggerate each other's view, there was something silly about the idea only Wenger played good football.

2) I suspect most who were proclaiming the purity of style would quickly come round to another style if it was successful.

[The North Bank]

Because Simeone will guarantee us the trophies we want to win? In the same way Guardiola, Klopp and Mourinho are doing at their clubs. The other great managers that
apparently would have guaranteed us success.
 I'm all for slaughtering Wenger, but none of his once potential replacements are delivering the trophies that he continues to fail to deliver. So the change would be more moral than factual. On the pitch, I expect over a season, very little may change, with a real possibility that things get worse.

[child-in-time]

We haven't played beautiful football as a team collectively since the days of Fabregas.

Which somehow coincides with the time Wenger finally had money to spend.

[The North Bank]

Which somehow coincides with the time Wenger finally had money to spend.

We have played some fantastic football with Sanchez and Ozil, and Van Persie before, including this season. But nice football doesn't guarantee league titles. So its neither here nor there. We do seem to look inept in the big games ,and very predictable.

[MagicHat]

Because Simeone will guarantee us the trophies we want to win? In the same way Guardiola, Klopp and Mourinho are doing at their clubs. The other great managers that
apparently would have guaranteed us success.
 I'm all for slaughtering Wenger, but none of his once potential replacements are delivering the trophies that he continues to fail to deliver. So the change would be more moral than factual. On the pitch, I expect over a season, very little may change, with a real possibility that things get worse.

Oh goodness no. No manager to any club is guaranteed a success however strong the club and however brilliant the manager. Sometimes things just don't work out for a number of reasons however carefully everyone plans it. Wenger is a good manager and there are plenty of people who would come in and do a lot worse becuase they are not at his level. There are managers out there who it does feel like can get better out of this squad and with the resources the club has over 3-5 years then it feels like Wenger can do

The first season for new manager? Adjustment period so would take top 4 again.

Which somehow coincides with the time Wenger finally had money to spend.

I don't agree with Cliff, we have played some lovely football. It is when the club remembers counter-attacking can be a strength rather then a abomination that we look good, it is when we start playing 5 yard passes rather then get ball forward that we bore.

[The North Bank]

Oh goodness no. No manager to any club is guaranteed a success however strong the club and however brilliant the manager. Sometimes things just don't work out for a number of reasons however carefully everyone plans it. Wenger is a good manager and there are plenty of people who would come in and do a lot worse becuase they are not at his level. There are managers out there who it does feel like can get better out of this squad and with the resources the club has over 3-5 years then it feels like Wenger can do

The first season for new manager? Adjustment period so would take top 4 again.

Remember the insanity spreading because we weren't even in for Guardiola, the grand master of football. Now everyone is laughing at him. Be careful what you wish for.
Things are not perfect, but none of the other teams would be talking about changing managers in the situation we are in, even those who regularly outspend us. There is still a season of football to play, time to concentrate on what's important.

[Doc Red]

*stumbles into the wrong thread, stays to enjoy the wonderful debate therein.
**Hopes you all start posting in other threads as well- share the wealth!

Arsenal is probably the only team out of our rivals that I respect, or dislike the least
On that regard, it would be a shame to see Wenger leave. Yes, he might not have been as successful as many might have hoped for, especially with the quality he had and the stability they enjoyed. Possibly, they might have even won a few more trophies if he wasn't so rigid with his spending philosophy or as loyal to his players as he seems, and he can be a little bit of a sore loser when they lose, but he's an absolute class act. Especially when compared to the other managers in the league over the latter two decades, both the successful ones and the rest. His team played a style of play that up that was always among the most exciting to watch in the league, and was into technical,  tidy, smart players rather than the hustle bustle run everywhere players even before it was fashionable in the league.

I predict Aresenal to drop out of the top 4 after Wenger leaves, and I don't think they'll return. They're never going to be a club that routinely spends every Summer, and I can't imagine another manager that can keep them at their current level with the budget the owners seem to like it kept as, whilst offering the same style of play. It'll either be a Mourinho lite version, or a Klopp lite version, and either way it's a step away from what they now have.

[MagicHat]

Remember the insanity spreading because we weren't even in for Guardiola, the grand master of football. Now everyone is laughing at him. Be careful what you wish for.
Things are not perfect, but none of the other teams would be talking about changing managers in the situation we are in, even those who regularly outspend us. There is still a season of football to play, time to concentrate on what's important.

I'm not laughing at Guardiola. I think he is a very good manager but I agree he is struggling for whatever reason at Man City. I also think some of the fans calls have been silly, flavour of the month or people who have barely managed before. I also think there are better managers then Wenger who could do more given all the advantages we have, I also think possibly Wenger at another club would perhaps get into a better mindset and flourish again.

Mid-season? Only the more panicky, unstable ones ones, Wenger deserves to see our the season and sacking him now would be folly. Most of the other clubs (some rightly, some stupidly) are ruthless, I don't think Wenger overall would still be in charge elsewhere.

*stumbles into the wrong thread, stays to enjoy the wonderful debate therein.
**Hopes you all start posting in other threads as well- share the wealth!

Arsenal is probably the only team out of our rivals that I respect, or dislike the least
On that regard, it would be a shame to see Wenger leave. Yes, he might not have been as successful as many might have hoped for, especially with the quality he had and the stability they enjoyed. Possibly, they might have even won a few more trophies if he wasn't so rigid with his spending philosophy or as loyal to his players as he seems, and he can be a little bit of a sore loser when they lose, but he's an absolute class act. Especially when compared to the other managers in the league over the latter two decades, both the successful ones and the rest. His team played a style of play that up that was always among the most exciting to watch in the league, and was into technical,  tidy, smart players rather than the hustle bustle run everywhere players even before it was fashionable in the league.

I predict Aresenal to drop out of the top 4 after Wenger leaves, and I don't think they'll return. They're never going to be a club that routinely spends every Summer, and I can't imagine another manager that can keep them at their current level with the budget the owners seem to like it kept as, whilst offering the same style of play. It'll either be a Mourinho lite version, or a Klopp lite version, and either way it's a step away from what they now have.

Glad your enjoying the debate but we have spent quite a lot of money in recent seasons on players like Ozil and Sanchez, we spent a fair bit this summer. Our budget is a fairly large one and the spending is pretty much Wenger now the debts have become less of an issue. If we appoint badly we will drop out to Europa and then it is hard to get back in, appoint well given everything the club has and we could push on and put in actual title challenges sometimes.