Topic: NBA Discussion

[elsewhere]

Jokic with a triple double last night against the Clippers, his fifth of the season

Jokic is probably a good example to show how incompetent some GM's are when it comes to finding international talents.
In fact, Spurs are probably one of the rare ones that are consistently good. Seems to me that some GM's just go to nba mock draft sites and look at the rankings and pick whoever is available for them in earliest instead of doing their homework. Then again, I'd like to know if it's a responsibility of GM only or this is more on the scouts than the GMs if GMs are spending months scouting foreign talent.

Some random picks from the last four drafts:

Jokic 41st pick
Giannis 15th pick
Schröder 17th pick
Gobert 27th pick

(Not even mentioning all the sins that have been done before, like drafting Manu at 57th, Parker at 28th or Dirk at 9th)

I bet you there are some international sleepers in 2017 draft that will be picked in late 1st or in 2nd rounds.

[elsewhere]

News Update..

Straw Poll Of 106 Media Members Shows Harden Ahead Of Westbrook In MVP Race

Alvin Gentry Could Be Fired If Pelicans Don't Show Progresss

Lonzo Ball is widely expected to be a top-2 pick in the draft and fall no lower than third

Dwight Howard Expected Magic To Trade Him To Brooklyn In 2011

Raptors Hold Lengthy Meeting Following Blowout Loss To Thunder

J.J. Redick: Clippers In A Bad Place Right Now

Luke Walton Staying Optimistic Despite Lakers' Struggles

Joel Embiid Meeting With Multiple Specialists Before Deciding Next Steps On Knee

Jordan Crawford Signs Two-Year Deal With Pelicans

Nemanja Bjelica Out For Season With Left Foot Injury
Rockets Staying In Baton Rouge Due To High Hotel Prices In New Orleans 

[Gerry Attrick]

Really boring half in Detroit. Both teams struggling mightily at the offensive end.

[Doc Red]

I think he was talking about the Spurs when they tanked for Duncan in 1996

Robinson was injured for most of the year, if I recall. Without him they were clearly going to bomb.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Jokic is probably a good example to show how incompetent some GM's are when it comes to finding international talents.
In fact, Spurs are probably one of the rare ones that are consistently good. Seems to me that some GM's just go to nba mock draft sites and look at the rankings and pick whoever is available for them in earliest instead of doing their homework. Then again, I'd like to know if it's a responsibility of GM only or this is more on the scouts than the GMs if GMs are spending months scouting foreign talent.

Some random picks from the last four drafts:




Jokic 41st pick
Giannis 15th pick
Schröder 17th pick
Gobert 27th pick

(Not even mentioning all the sins that have been done before, like drafting Manu at 57th, Parker at 28th or Dirk at 9th)

I bet you there are some international sleepers in 2017 draft that will be picked in late 1st or in 2nd rounds.

This has no basis at all. Either provide some numbers to back up your idea or the likes of Milcic and Bargs are an equally strong argument from the other side.   

[elsewhere]

So, season ends in a month. who do you have for the individual awards?

Coach of The Year: Gregg Popovich (Notable mentions: Mike D'Antoni and Scott Brooks)

Rookie of The Year: Dario Saric (Notable mentions: Joel Embiid and Malcolm Brogdon)

Sixth Man of The Year: Lou Williams (Notable mentions: Eric Gordon and Enes Kanter)

Most Improved Player: Giannis Antetokumnpo (Notable mention: Nikola Jokic)

Defensive Player of The Year: Rudy Gobert (Notable mentions: Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green)

Most Valuable Player: Kawhi Leonard (Notable mentions: James Harden and Russell Westbrook)

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Coach of The Year: Mike D'Antoni, Stevens and Brooks honourable mentions

Rookie of The Year: Joel Embiid

Sixth Man of The Year: Eric Gordon

Most Improved Player: Giannis Antetokumnpo

Defensive Player of The Year: Kawhi

Most Valuable Player: Russell Westbrook

[elsewhere]

Coach of The Year: Mike D'Antoni, Stevens and Brooks honourable mentions

Rookie of The Year: Joel Embiid

Sixth Man of The Year: Eric Gordon

Most Improved Player: Giannis Antetokumnpo

Defensive Player of The Year: Kawhi

Most Valuable Player: Russell Westbrook

i really want Embiid to win but i feel he hasn't played enough games. 31 just doesn't cut it.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

i really want Embiid to win but i feel he hasn't played enough games. 31 just doesn't cut it.

been the best player, had decent all star buzz too. Based on what he's done he should get it, but Saric is worthy of it

[Greatness]

Coach of the Year: Spoelstra
Rookie of the Year : Saric
Sixth man of the year : Eric Gordan
Most Improved player Giannis
Defensive Player of the year: Gobert
MVP : Westbrook

[elsewhere]

Coach of the Year: Spoelstra
Rookie of the Year : Saric
Sixth man of the year : Eric Gordan
Most Improved player Giannis
Defensive Player of the year: Gobert
MVP : Westbrook

Spoelstra is a sleeper pick, he is definitely in the conversation. At this speeed they will get 7th or even 6th spot in the East after a terrible start.

[GreatEx]

Jokic is probably a good example to show how incompetent some GM's are when it comes to finding international talents.
In fact, Spurs are probably one of the rare ones that are consistently good. Seems to me that some GM's just go to nba mock draft sites and look at the rankings and pick whoever is available for them in earliest instead of doing their homework. Then again, I'd like to know if it's a responsibility of GM only or this is more on the scouts than the GMs if GMs are spending months scouting foreign talent.

Some random picks from the last four drafts:

Jokic 41st pick
Giannis 15th pick
Schröder 17th pick
Gobert 27th pick

(Not even mentioning all the sins that have been done before, like drafting Manu at 57th, Parker at 28th or Dirk at 9th)

I bet you there are some international sleepers in 2017 draft that will be picked in late 1st or in 2nd rounds.

This has no basis at all. Either provide some numbers to back up your idea or the likes of Milcic and Bargs are an equally strong argument from the other side.   

What other side? He said GM's have shown poor judgement of international players; citing examples where teams have wasted top-two picks on rubbish only supports the argument. I also don't understand how you can aggressively demand numbers to back up his stance when his post contains seven specific, enumerated pieces of evidence.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The moaning and whining by the US media about teams resting players is doing my head in.

[GreatEx]

Who I think will win, not necessarily my choices:

MVP: Harden
DPOY: Leonard
6th man: Gordon
Improved: Greek
Rookie: Embiid
Coach: Brooks (would be D'Antoni but they won't give 3 major awards to the Rockets)

[Romeo Sensini]

Embiid won't win RoY. Probably will be Saric, who has been fantastic since Embiid went out. Putting up roughly 18/8/4 during that time.

[GreatEx]

I'm anticipating a sympathy vote.

[elsewhere]

What other side? He said GM's have shown poor judgement of international players; citing examples where teams have wasted top-two picks on rubbish only supports the argument. I also don't understand how you can aggressively demand numbers to back up his stance when his post contains seven specific, enumerated pieces of evidence.

Exactly and thank you for the support greater.

I was gonna write a lengthy response but figured draft time would be better for this type of discussion. All i was saying was GM's and scouts clearly has issues evaluating talents for international players. And i am not the one who is saying that, they admit it themselves.
Recently a GM has said they didn't know Giannis would be thid good because he was playing division 2 ball for greek league. Other one said Jokic played for Mega Basket and that team has never produced an NBA player before so they were hesitant.

The reason Denver was big on Jokic was Karnisovas, assistant GM of Nuggets. Well, maybe they should hire more european origin assistants or GM's or hire scouts that has good connections to europe. Looks like they only watch a few euroleague games and look at mock draft sites and come with a pick. They are getting paid around 3-5 million$ per year, they have to do their homework better, that's all I am saying.

[elsewhere]

I'm anticipating a sympathy vote.

if he is injured yes but if 76'ers actually shut him down (as well as Simmons) intentionally to avoid injury, and if voters know that insider info then he won't get that sympathy vote, we shall see.

[elsewhere]

Magic Could Pursue Doc Rivers For GM/Coach Job

The Orlando Magic could pursue Doc Rivers this offseason.

"There has been persistent chatter for weeks over the NBA's front-office grapevine that the Orlando Magic and Rivers will explore a reunion down the road," writes Stein.

Rivers' first head coaching job was with the Magic and he still maintains a home in the area.

Rivers is under contract to serve as Los Angeles Clippers coach and president of basketball operations through the 2018-19 season.

The Clippers will surely evaluate all aspects of their operation this offseason unless they win a title. The Clippers started the season 14-2 but have struggled with inconsistency and injuries ever since.

Rob Hennigan is widely expected to be fired at the end of the current season as general manager of the Magic. Frank Vogel is in his first season as head coach.

---------------------------------------------

Just WTF are they thinking? This guy has been miserable fraud in Clippers as a GM and a coach for 5 years and counting. I bet Clippers fans are saying "Yes, please bail us out". I find it amazing that he struggles with players he picked and signed himself. I am shocked the Clips haven't fired him yet. They've underperformed in the playoffs given how talented they are.

Also, has a GM+coach role ever worked well? I was never fan of that.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Disappointed with the Spurs, back to back loses. I don't know what kind of hold the Grizzlies have over them, it's infuriating.

[elsewhere]

Disappointed with the Spurs, back to back loses. I don't know what kind of hold the Grizzlies have over them, it's infuriating.

just when i was getting worried we will lose the home court, spurs gifted it back to us.
yes, Memphis always plays them hard. still can't forget that 2011 1st round upset.

[Greatness]

just when i was getting worried we will lose the home court, spurs gifted it back to us.
yes, Memphis always plays them hard. still can't forget that 2011 1st round upset.

Spurs got them back for that though in the 2013 Western Conference Finals

[deFacto please, you bastards]

just when i was getting worried we will lose the home court, spurs gifted it back to us.
yes, Memphis always plays them hard. still can't forget that 2011 1st round upset.

We may have to play them in the first round.

[elsewhere]

Watching Wizards-Celtics. I am really not sold on Celtics and Wiz team defenses at all. Both are quite bad in transition defense.
Come play off time, i don't think either one wins more than 2 games against Cavs.

[Livo.85]

Harden is the MVP. You don't understand the MVP criteria & aren't watching the games if you say otherwise.

[nicholasanthony]

Patty Cakes should be MVP.

[Doc Red]

Harden is the MVP. You don't understand the MVP criteria & aren't watching the games if you say otherwise.

You've made a fantastic argument, I'm sure anyone that watches the NBA must surely accept your points.
Thanks for the input.

[elsewhere]

Harden is the MVP. You don't understand the MVP criteria & aren't watching the games if you say otherwise.

to be honest, "most valuable player" concept is not clear cut described by anyone. Players, league officials, fans all have different opinions.
How do you define valuable, how much Win-Loss does the candidate's team need to have, is it more important how much better a player makes his teammates, or how good he makes his team? the impact of minutes, coach and system in that team, what is "making teammates better" etc etc many questions comes to mind.

[Lone Star Red]

Harden is the MVP. You don't understand the MVP criteria & aren't watching the games if you say otherwise.

OK mate, if you say so.

[elsewhere]

Sometimes wondered how the Jazz always seem to have many of white players on their team and FAs not wanting to go there and it turns out there is a such sort of underlying struggle with Jazz recruiting black players in free agency based on their location and city.

Found this article below, a good read.

http://theundefeated.com/features/how-black-utah-jazz-players-have-embraced-salt-lake-city/

[Livo.85]

OK mate, if you say so.

Not just my opinion. If you do some research it's the general consensus among the basketball junkies that watch games on a daily basis. Only need to look at the straw poll done further up the page for a guide on how the media are leaning. From the time that poll was done Harden has only been more impressive in recent performances. I'm honestly surprised this is one of the few places online where this isn't the general consensus. Some here don't seem to understand the history of the MVP award & the criteria. It's pretty well known that you need a top 3 team record & then it's the player having the biggest impact from those teams. The reason why Curry won the award over Harden in 2015 was team wins. The players award went to Harden that year. I expect a similar story this season with Westbrook winning the players award.

Spurs easily win when Kawhi doesn't play, Lebron has more & does less with a slightly worse record than the rockets yet they are in an easier conference & Westbrook has comparable TS numbers with Ricky Rubio. In fact Harden could miss his next 177 shots & still have a better percentage! Harden is better in the clutch & his defense isn't as horrific as the meme culture fans suggest. His versatility allows him to defend positions 1-4 & can defend the post pretty well. This allows the Rockets to play extremely small in crunch time which other teams just wouldn't get away with. Also research what defenders say about guarding Harden & Westbrook. They say Harden is much tougher because you can't make contact with him on the high screen because he will immediately go into shooting motion & shoot 3 free throws. You can't go under because he will knock down the shot far more consistently than Westbrook & you can't help because he finds the open man. You can't stay in front of him because his footwork & reading of the defender is so good, he can step back & create space or euro step. The nuances makes it extremely difficult. Westbrook is far more simple & that's force a contested jumper, or a contested lay-up, don't let him blow by with his speed.

On a side-note those saying Mike D'Antoni should win coach of the year are also wrong imo. He made one decision which was to make Harden the point guard. Coach of the year shouldn't go to someone for 1 good decision. They barely run any plays & D'Antoni himself says Harden makes his job incredibly easy.

Personally I think Popovich should get it. Is managing aging players incredibly well, makes far more adjustments in games than D'Antoni & has a record comparable to the talent stacked Warriors. What he has done with Kawhi is incredible. That talent wasn't always there it was coaching that has improved his talent. Can't say the same of D'Antoni & Harden.

[GreatEx]

Sometimes wondered how the Jazz always seem to have many of white players on their team and FAs not wanting to go there and it turns out there is a such sort of underlying struggle with Jazz recruiting black players in free agency based on their location and city.

Found this article below, a good read.

http://theundefeated.com/features/how-black-utah-jazz-players-have-embraced-salt-lake-city/

Thanks for that, always good to get some in-depth info about my team. I must admit, I chose Utah as my team when I was young and knew nothing about that place, I just liked the name "Jazz" and the Stockton/Malone combination, plus they had that giant Mark Eaton whom I found fascinating (if only I'd known about Manute Bol). If I'd known Utah was an ultra-conservative, religious state where you can't get a drink, I probably would have steered clear. I did always wonder if the city's ethnic mix was a turn-off to black players, and this article suggests it was. I think the difficulty of attracting FA's is more about being small-market than its whiteness, though: it's not like the Jazz have attracted any white FA's of note, and it's not like the Bobcats, Bucks, Nuggets, Grizzlies, etc. have much joy attracting the big names, either.

I do remember the Jazz being 50:50 or even majority white in the late '80s and early '90s, but that's not been the case for a while, now. It's really just Hayward and Ingles, isn't it? Maybe another one at the end of the bench. Good to see guys like Favors and Hill are committed to the cause.

Also, is it not bizarre that Thurl Bailey talks about his wife coming from a "great home", even though they disowned her for marrying a black man? Give him a prize for tolerance, sheesh...

[Greatness]

Personally I think Popovich should get it. Is managing aging players incredibly well, makes far more adjustments in games than D'Antoni & has a record comparable to the talent stacked Warriors. What he has done with Kawhi is incredible. That talent wasn't always there it was coaching that has improved his talent. Can't say the same of D'Antoni & Harden.

Spoelstra has also improved his talent. the Likes of Mcgruder, James Johnson and Dion Wiaters come to mind this season and he's also done similar with Whiteside and Tyler Johnson.

[Livo.85]

I agree. Would be next on my list. Stevens & Brooks after that.

[Doc Red]

Also, is it not bizarre that Thurl Bailey talks about his wife coming from a "great home", even though they disowned her for marrying a black man? Give him a prize for tolerance, sheesh...

Haha!
If only more of us had been raised in a "great home", we might have furthered intolerance and bigotry to an even greater level.

Thanks for sharing the link, Elsewhere!

[Doc Red]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG9EmkmAOns

Great debate on the issue of player rest. The new edition of the "Players only" Inside the NBA has quickly become my favourite. Isiah, Webber, and Baron Davis make for a fantastic discussion. Only wish they'd jettison off the Garnett section which is just awkward and cringeworthy. Not sure how he got that platform, surely they must have had other former NBA players that could make for a greater host?

[Livo.85]

LeBron with a -30. Still MVP though 

[pyroparty]

LeBron with a -30. Still MVP though 

God forbid a human being has a bad game!

[elsewhere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG9EmkmAOns

Great debate on the issue of player rest. The new edition of the "Players only" Inside the NBA has quickly become my favourite. Isiah, Webber, and Baron Davis make for a fantastic discussion. Only wish they'd jettison off the Garnett section which is just awkward and cringeworthy. Not sure how he got that platform, surely they must have had other former NBA players that could make for a greater host?

I agree with you about KG, sometimes he overdoes it try to look like a gangsta wannabe and "keeping it real". Players only is fine but i miss Chuck's jokes to be honest.

I think Steve Nash could have been good for Area 21. He is a good basketball brain and quite funny fella too.

[Livo.85]

God forbid a human being has a bad game!

Taking my point out of context regarding LeBron. I've given a tonne of evidence why LeBron isn't  MVP. I think it was only fair to mention since some posters who still regard him as this season's MVP perhaps need to be updated since they are clearly not watching!