Author Topic: What's the story behind...?  (Read 49183 times)

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2012, 09:35:53 AM »
Here it is:

Notes on Original Song (Scottish)

"Eytie Gun" = Italian
Ergo presumption of Libyan Sun as Libya was an Italian State. And thats where The Highlanders fought

However, Tommy is our version of that song, ergo
I've always sung The Arabian Sun because thats were the King's and Connaught Rangers (SCOUSE reg's) fought against The Turks in WW1

The truth ? As songs are learnt by ear, we have probably sung both for decades
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Offline Mottman

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2012, 09:52:27 AM »
POOR SCOUSER TOMMY THE UNTOLD STORY

Near Bootle docks in a terraced street
where kids played football in bare feet
stands little Tommy, 8 years of age
most kids were poor in pre war days.

They’d have to borrow, beg or steal
and rarely ate a decent meal
but no one held their heads in shame
for kids back then were all the same.

Together with his little mates
he’d peer through the dockyard gates
at merchant ships from far and wide
who’s cargo’s had them hypnotized.

They never stole for gain or greed
they stole for basic human need
a sense of ’conscience’ did not exist
thats just a word used by the rich.

As Tommy grew into his teens
he’d make a shilling by any means
he’d steal from Peter to pay back Paul
to watch his hometown play football.

To Anfield every other week
he’d amble through the cobbled streets
climbing gas lamps with dirty hands
stealing apples, and skipping trams.

He’d stand upon a wooden crate
to watch Kays team of 38
Mcdougal and Busby played at half back
while Balmer and Kinghorn led the attack.

Like all young lads he had no cares
life is such bliss, when your unaware
one big adventure from day to day
just eat and sleep, and steal and play.

For boys like Tommy, knew not their fate
a world wide conflict soon lay in wait
their youth was halted in its tracks
as war torn Europe, faced Hitlers wrath.

Now aged 16, Tom soon filled out
and learned to put himself about
he’d watch his team at anfield play
he’d sing and shout, but got carried away.

He developed a taste for the local brew
and before each match, had quite a few
he’d run on the pitch to the penalty spot
but was unfortunately thrown out quite alot.

He wasn’t malicious, cruel or mean
his heart was big, but his pockets were lean
but like all folk from pre-war days
he had respect for his elders ways.

The sound of cheering and waving rattles
would soon be swapped for guns and battles
aged just 19, who would have guessed
he’d soon do battle, with Rommels best

Together with his older brother
he kissed the cheek of his tear-filled mother
in his uniform, with his packet of fags
and his lucky red hat, in his old kit bag.

Then off he went on a southbound train
en route to the battle of El Alamein
to the royal artillery, he was commissioned
with the 51st Gordon Highland Division.

He arrived in October of 42
as Monty’s 8th army were turning the screw
but nothing prepared him for what was to come
in the blistering, searing north African sun

They were given their orders, to relieve the front-line
but the path to Tripoli, was ladened with mines
so they’d all split up into 12 man platoons
then tip toe with death through the minefields and dunes.

There was just no escaping the sweltering sun
or the deafening noise of the bresa guns
there were flys in their thousands and nothing but sand
in this god forsaken war torn land.

They came to a clearing by a salt marsh trail
where abattle enraged, on a frightening scale
the shell fire was deafening, as smoke filled the sky
Tommy muttered a prayer 'Lord dont let me die.'

He reached in his pocket for his lucky red hat
things were looking real bad, for these desert rats
the German panzers had attacked from both flanks
leaving smouldering corpses, of burnt out tanks.

Then orders were given by Tommys command
to gain high ground and make a stand
he kissed his hat , as he put it away
then advanced with his troop, on his final day.

In the mayhem which followed, on that hot afternoon
there was all but 2, of his 12 man platoon
they were trapped in a crater, left by a shell
all around lay the bodies of those who had fell.

The soldier with Tommy, was hit and in pain
his trembling hand, held his cross and chain
he said 'Get me home' with a tear in his eye
'Just leave it to scouse' came Tommy’s reply.

So amidst the screeching of mortars and shells
he decided to dash, through this living hell
he took a deep breath, closed his eyes
touched his hat once again, then climbed over the rise.

But Tommys dash would be ill fated
as deaths dark angel calmly waited
for as he stood to make his run
he was sprayed with bullets, from an old nazi gun.

He danced in a death like a marionette
falling back in the crater, from which he’d just left
his injured friend crawled across where he lay
but the bright burning sun was now fading to grey.

As the blood from his headwound flowed into the sand
his weakening grip, dropped the hat from his hand
the lucky red hat which he treasured so much
lay tattered and bloodstained, in the African dust.

Then visions flashed before his eyes
of his Liverpool home, and times gone by
his tearful mother, and his childhood mates
waved up to the sky, from the dockyard gates.

As the African sands of time ran dry
a tear appeared in Tommys eye
as he thought of Anfield so far away
where he’d no longer watch his idols play.

It was at this point just before he died
that he turned to the soldier by his side
he reached out a hand, and pulled him near
then whispered his last words into his ear.

The month was January of 43
about 20 miles east of Tripoli
in the blistering heat, there was something cold
it was the body of a boy, just 20 years old.

The last words he uttered, through his dying breath
are a lasting legacy to Tommys death
some 60 years after his heavenly call
his words are now folklore, sang by us all.

The sacrifices that those boys made
seem long forgotten by folk these days
they died so we could all be free
they died for the likes of you and me.

So every time we sing that song
we must remember right from wrongs
we’ll sing it loud, and recall with pride
poor scouser Tommy, and the millions who died.
 

Reference: http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/66623-poor-scouser-tommy-untld-story-urchins.html
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2012, 10:14:35 AM »
Brilliant contribution Robbie lad
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Offline Redrebel54

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2012, 11:02:18 AM »
Nice one Mottman. At last I can put a face on PST. He's always been sort of bland and generic until I read that.

Now then, the speed of this song. It annoys the fuck out of me to hear it reduced to unintelligible gobbledy-gook as you guys so aptly described earlier. But it was happening back in 2001/2. I was bevvying with a pile of arl arses in Dortmund and lamenting about how fast it had become.

One of the best ale-house LFC songs in my opinion is Liverbird Upon my Chest.
"A Liverbird Upon my Chest
We are men of Shanklys best
A team that plays,
the Liverpool way
Collecting championships in May"

Loads and load of verses to that, I only remember 3-4, so if anyone knows a link to the rest, then brill.

Some of the more "colourful" songs of the 70's and 80's

"We don't carry bottles
We don't carry lead
We only carry hatchets
To bury in your heads"

"The reds are marching up the hill boys"

Again, the full words must be somewhere around this site. But I'm sad enough to admit that I can often be found sat at my PC, tuned into wiziwig watching the reds singing "we don't carry hatchets"  :-[, which admittedly gets me the withering looks from the missus, but I don't give a shit. I love them old songs.
From Terry Pratchett's excellent Discworld novel, The Truth.

"A lie can run around the world before the truth has even got it's boots on."

As witnessed 17 April 1989. But 23 years to lace up yer boots????

Offline Devon Red

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2012, 11:35:41 AM »
Here it is:

Thanks for clearing up the mystery. I have to admit I'm a bit gutted to find out that Poor Scouser Tommy isn't an original Kop composition. I suppose it just goes to show that a lot of what we think of as tradition is actually evolution, not totally original. Still, it will always be one of the great football songs.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2012, 08:25:31 PM »
The first part of the song which is now called 'Poor Scouser Tommy' was added in the late 70's, i think. The original song was 'I am a Liverpudlian' and was sung to the tune of 'The Sash', of Orange Lodge derivation. It's probably still played by them. Like most of the songs sung at the game today most have their history in the 60's when we rose to fame. Someone asked how it gets from paper to being sung by thousands. Well, it didn't happen like that. The words were made up standing on the terraces during the game or tried out with mates between matches. It wasn't as co-ordinated as you think. People just threw in suggestions. When it sounded right it was sung, repeatedly, until more and more people picked it up, it also helped that they were sung at the right speed. I don't know if the people I'm going to mention visit this site but if they do the should remember those days. People like Pete Daley (who as far as I remember was brilliant at just putting words to tunes., Bobby Wilcox, Bernie Poole, 'Bucket' (can't remember his proper name but everyone knew him as Bucket), and many more. It was Bucket who made 'The Reds are coming up the hill' and I first heard him making it up when we were together at West Brom during the 60's sometime. Most of the songs, which aren't even remembered these days, were based on Lodge songs or on Irish Rebel songs, which reflected the Protestant/Catholic history of the area.

I was known as 'Little Yank' which identified me from my brother 'Big Yank'. We travelled to all games and actually formed our own Supporters Club  called 'The Loyalists' and we met in the upstairs of  'The Sandon' in between matches to plan who was going to the next away match and how we would get there. During this period we formed our own football teams called Loyalists and we played in the Huyton and District every Sunday, if we made it back from the Saturday match as some of hitchhiked to games. Hope this helps and, who knows, some of those lads may be visiting the site and want to add to what I've said.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2012, 08:39:24 PM »
'we're the boys from Anfields Spion Kop
Our team is Liverpool FC
We like to sing and shout because we know
We'll cheer our team to victory,  ..and so on 

Scarlet - this is another song that has the same history as 'I am a Liverpulian'. I remember this being constructed, again in the 60's, at a Derby match at Goodison (in the days when they had a wooden floor (I think it was wooden because we used to stamp our feet on it). The tune, as far as I remember is one used in WW2 films when Marines were training. John Wayne type of films.

Offline Lad

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2012, 08:40:40 PM »
I remember being given a photocopied sheet outside the Kop before a game, must have been 1975 or so. It had the words to "Scouser Tommy" on it and I remember the Kop belting it out that day. And yes, the original words were 'Arabian sun'. The Highland Division also was, I believe, a reference to the Liverpool Scottish (though as a kid I thought the Seaforth Highlanders were from Bootle so a pinch of salt may be added). In fact, if my mother has not thrown them out, the sheet should be somewhere with all my old programmes and memorabilia in her loft. Awesome song when sung well.

I remember being at Wembley for the Bruges final in 78 and lads near me threw up hundreds of leaflets with the words to Scouser Tommy.

Have to say also it was definitely Arabian sun and Highland division not higher.
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Offline In the Net

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2012, 09:45:03 PM »
Loving this thread - it's fascinating to find out the origins of the various songs.  Thanks to everybody who has shared their knowledge and memories - please keep it coming.

Offline Marty 85

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2012, 09:58:04 PM »
The first part of the song which is now called 'Poor Scouser Tommy' was added in the late 70's, i think. The original song was 'I am a Liverpudlian' and was sung to the tune of 'The Sash', of Orange Lodge derivation. It's probably still played by them. Like most of the songs sung at the game today most have their history in the 60's when we rose to fame. Someone asked how it gets from paper to being sung by thousands. Well, it didn't happen like that. The words were made up standing on the terraces during the game or tried out with mates between matches. It wasn't as co-ordinated as you think. People just threw in suggestions. When it sounded right it was sung, repeatedly, until more and more people picked it up, it also helped that they were sung at the right speed. I don't know if the people I'm going to mention visit this site but if they do the should remember those days. People like Pete Daley (who as far as I remember was brilliant at just putting words to tunes., Bobby Wilcox, Bernie Poole, 'Bucket' (can't remember his proper name but everyone knew him as Bucket), and many more. It was Bucket who made 'The Reds are coming up the hill' and I first heard him making it up when we were together at West Brom during the 60's sometime. Most of the songs, which aren't even remembered these days, were based on Lodge songs or on Irish Rebel songs, which reflected the Protestant/Catholic history of the area.

I was known as 'Little Yank' which identified me from my brother 'Big Yank'. We travelled to all games and actually formed our own Supporters Club  called 'The Loyalists' and we met in the upstairs of  'The Sandon' in between matches to plan who was going to the next away match and how we would get there. During this period we formed our own football teams called Loyalists and we played in the Huyton and District every Sunday, if we made it back from the Saturday match as some of hitchhiked to games. Hope this helps and, who knows, some of those lads may be visiting the site and want to add to what I've said.

Great insightful post. Much appreciated!

On the topic of the tempo our songs are sung at - My favorite non Liverpool songs are "oh when the spurs/saints go marching on" sung at a snails pace. It's impressive and makes your hairs stand on end hearing it sung and then gradually building pace before being belted out.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 10:01:36 PM by Marty 85 »
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Offline Robotforaday

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2012, 11:12:59 AM »
Thanks for clearing up the mystery. I have to admit I'm a bit gutted to find out that Poor Scouser Tommy isn't an original Kop composition. I suppose it just goes to show that a lot of what we think of as tradition is actually evolution, not totally original. Still, it will always be one of the great football songs.

Well, I wouldn't be so down. It's much more powerful as two songs combined anyway, that's its real character, and that was Liverpool's invention. Besides, I sing a lot of traditional/folk songs, and I find it quite inspiring to know how things develop and grow and travel and change, being passed on by word of mouth. By adapting the song and adding it as a "prologue" of sorts to "I am a Liverpudlian", the kop gave the song a life it never had and turned it into the true anthem it is today, beloved by thousands rather than being forgotten. I think that's how all of the really great songs come about, standing on the shoulders of giants as it were.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2012, 03:47:30 PM »
'On the topic of the tempo our songs are sung at - My favorite non Liverpool songs are "oh when the spurs/saints go marching on" sung at a snails pace. It's impressive and makes your hairs stand on end hearing it sung and then gradually building pace before being belted out.'

It's a bit slow for me but I know what you mean. You hear the words and you can sing it without getting out breath. I think if songs are to long then the tendency is to rush to finish them. Also remember that there's a match going on that needs to be watched so long songs will tend to be interrupted by match events.

Offline Lancaster Bomber

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2012, 08:30:36 PM »
I started going to Liverpool in the 72/73 season but i only remember the Poor Scoucer Tommy song from 77,i remember being away at city in 77 in the Salisbury pub on oxford road in manchester.The pub was full of Liverpool fans and they sang the full song,i had herd it before i got a pen and paper and asked some of the lads the words to write  it down,it must have took me an hour.Remember going to Ipswich away around that time and being in the end behing the goal which was split 50/50 and we sung the song.The Ipswich fans were complety silent throughout the song,i dont think they had herd anything quite like it.I used to go in the Anny rd in them days and it was the same in there with the visiting supporters who kept quiet while we sang the song.  :wave
Still got the scar on the back off my head from Blackbeards truncheon all the Liverpool lads used 2 call me the Lancaster Bomber, some of the lads know me as Marsy as my full name is Graham Marsden no relation to Gerry Im 54.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2012, 06:53:12 AM »
old songs

Want to read more or learn the extra verses Try "Song Archive" on the front page of RAWK

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/songs.php
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Offline Anfieldite

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2012, 04:02:33 PM »
In the 60s did it start from 'We support a team that plays in red', because the Sash is 2 verses not 3? I know that Everton also sung it mid 60s too with same words, obviously blue instead of red etc, so maybe that was a standard song back then?

Talking of mixed songs in work a while ago a blue was saying that they done Filelds of Athenry/Fathers Advice in the 80s. Now expecting it to be a made up story, my mate who's been going on the Kop since 1963 said he remembered them doing it. Obviously it wasn't as successful as FOAR but nevertheless done quite well as a shortlived or pub song. Anyone know more about this?

Offline Mottman

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2012, 11:59:17 PM »
I started going to Liverpool in the 72/73 season but i only remember the Poor Scoucer Tommy song from 77,i remember being away at city in 77 in the Salisbury pub on oxford road in manchester.The pub was full of Liverpool fans and they sang the full song,i had herd it before i got a pen and paper and asked some of the lads the words to write  it down,it must have took me an hour.Remember going to Ipswich away around that time and being in the end behing the goal which was split 50/50 and we sung the song.The Ipswich fans were complety silent throughout the song,i dont think they had herd anything quite like it.I used to go in the Anny rd in them days and it was the same in there with the visiting supporters who kept quiet while we sang the song.  :wave

Same here mate, think it started towards the middle / end of the 76 season, then took off the following season. Going away in those day's was great being young and all that, was boss at away games, home fan's had never heard anything like this in their life, same in  the Rd End.

For a short period of time we all wore Red N White rugby shirt's similar to Celtic design, home and away, great day's them. 
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Offline Prof

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2012, 02:48:34 AM »
POOR SCOUSER TOMMY THE UNTOLD STORY

Oh my Fowler.  That is brilliant.  Choked up reading that.

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Offline Redallover11

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2012, 03:16:54 AM »
fantastic thread and the poem and being able to take out the lyrics from it and create an equally brilliant song. Goosebumps
Thanks to all contributors in the thread.

Offline Anfieldite

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2012, 09:28:07 AM »
Roughly what year did these songs start?


Left right jeans on tight airware to the floor etc

Arrivederci Roma 77 or 84?


Or finally this one that I've only ever seen on song lists. I've never ever even heard anyone even mentioning it. It scans to "I see Celtic on the Ball".


We love John Barnes,We love John Barnes,J.B. - We love Johnny on the ball.
He's fantastic, Legs Elastic,
He stands proud while all defenders fall.
Shout it loud like ETC
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:38:15 AM by Anfieldite »

Offline nadeeer

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2012, 04:16:31 PM »
As many others have said, this is a fantastic thread and is incredibly informative for younger supporters such as myself who go to games so often and belt out these songs but don't know where they're from or how they became associated with Liverpool. Especially love the PST post (thanks Mottman) and I will definitely now think of this every time I sing it on the Kop. Looking forward to more contributions on this thread, especially from the older RAWK users.

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Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2012, 04:55:35 PM »
Hi Anfieldite, I'm new to posting on this site so took me ages to work out how it's done. Still not sure I've done it right. In answer to your question, no The words don't register with me and I was involved with the lads who really created virtually all the songs we now have and some that don't get sung anymore or have morphed into something not resembling the original. Of course other groups who went the match tried songs of their own but the ones that seem to have stood the years stem from the environment I've mentioned.

One that was mentioned a few posts back (my ignorance of navigating the site is showing here) is below. We didn't really have names for them, we just sung them and they caught on very quickly so that from any other part of the ground it must have sounded spontaneous. Here is the words and a link to youtube for the tune it was set to (skip the trumpet intro).

We are the men from the Anfield Spion Kop
Our team is Liverpool FC
We like to sing and shout because we know we'll cheer our team to victory.
For we know our team will fight, fight, fight
It's going to be a glorious sight, sight, sight
We all agree it's going to be
Another glorious victory
For the Liverppol FC

And if you care to go to any ground
You will always here our songs
To see our team we'll travel anywhere
If it's in Europe we'll be there
For they're a great team you'll agree
And we'll go down in history
We all agree it's going to be another glorious victory
For the Liverpool FC

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVxSMsLTj2M

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2012, 05:09:36 PM »
Also we tended not to sing about individual players really. We tended to sing about the team. Met Shankly
a few times and when a group of us were in Germany following the team on a pre-season summer tour. We camped and generally made our way to the venues whatever way we could (hitched around Germany). The last venue was Hannover, big army base there at the time, so lots of soldiers supporting us. However, being young, inexperienced and stupid we were skint and had no money to get in. The local police became a bit twitchy about 30 supporters and a load of soldiers milling round outside the ground. Near kick off time Shanks came out to talk with us (he must have been informed by the police). He asked us what the problem was. We told him we had no money to get in. 'Leave it with me', he said. He came back some minutes later, the doors to the ground opened and he ushered us in to the ground, escorted us to some really good seats and had food brought us. We couldn't believe it. He was a great man, a truly great man who loved the club and its supporters. Many more stories but I'm rambling.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2012, 06:18:18 PM »
Many more stories but I'm rambling.
Keep rambling then :) Great stuff.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2012, 07:07:23 PM »
Another time we hitched to Coventry (me and a couple mates) for a midweek friendly. we did follow the boys everywhere. If we couldn't go ourselves we helped others to go by doing whatever we could. Our aim was to have support for the club no matter where they played or what occasion. We arrived in Coventry mid afternoon and, as always, the first thing we did was to find out where the ground was. This we did. At the time the club was managed by Jimmy Hill (gives you some idea of the era). Jimmy Hill became a sort of comedy character at some point  but he was way ahead of his time in what we now know as the corporate way of club organisation. At this time, I'm talking about Coventry under Jimmy Hill, were way ahead of everybody in the way they promoted their club. Anyway, there we are checking out the ground before working out how we could scavenge some food when Jimmy Hill came out of the players entrance. We must have been wearing some colours because he came over to introduce himself. He was absolutely fascinated that we'd hitched it to see the lads for a midweek friendly. We talked for ages and he said it was an ambition of his for Coventry supporters to have the same passion as we showed and that his corporatism was aimed at encouraging this. To be honest, all this was lost on us because we just followed the team anywhere and everywhere and it pure coincidence that we met him.

As said, we talked for ages and then he said he'd have to leave as he had some match details to attend to. He told us not to go just yet and went back through the players entrance and reappeared with the club captain George Curtis. They both enquired if we were hungry (we thought he was going to slip us some money to buy some chips), but no. He asked George Curtis to look after us, which he did. At that time Coventry had a restaurant in the ground, all part of their corporate experiment. George Curtis sort out the head chef ( it was all very plush and we were dressed in jeans and the like) and asked him to prepare some food to eat. We were treated and ate like kings. Afterwards we left as they had to prepare for match night so we bummed around close to the ground. We watched the game having met up with some other lads who had made their way down.

When we hitched down to away matches we always tried to jump on a coach back, keeping our heads down. Of course there was no coaches so we decided to see the players boarding the coach to make their way back to Liverpool. Shankly saw us and thanked us for coming down and asked how we got down for the game. We told him we hitched it and he told us to hang on and he would find out if we could have a lift on the team coach. We were widemouthed with surprise. Unfortunately he was overruled by Sid Reakes who was the Chairman at the time. He obviously ruled the roost so we had to make our way out to the motorway. We must have got home at some crazy hour in the morning. I know all this must sound really fanciful but it really did happen as I tell it. Of course todays game is so far removed from ordinary people that you probably can't imagine it like this. I could write a book. Of course it wasn't always so glamourous. Going down to places like West Ham and using the tube to get somewhere that seemed like a very unfriendly place and making sure you came back in one piece was not for the faint hearted. Ramble over.

Offline Grrdaisy

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2012, 07:29:10 PM »
That poem is beautiful, I had always wondered the story behind PST and knew it couldn't be a happy one, so I found it quite disrespectful that some people add the 'up the bum' bit... I hope this makes them realize it isn't anything funny and it's quite disrespectful .. Made me shed a tear..
Left my heart at Anfield.

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2012, 10:14:40 AM »
I know all this must sound really fanciful but it really did happen as I tell it. Of course todays game is so far removed from ordinary people that you probably can't imagine it like this. I could write a book........... Ramble over.

Brilliant Penlan!

The worst words in that? "ramble over"! I enjoyed that immensely - you might actually want to consider that book you suggest you could write!

I only started going to the match mid '80's and see how much has changed between then and now. Your stories are highly believable mate.

The sad thing is, when will the divide between the fans and players stop widening?

Absolutely superb thread this.

Offline Stevie-A

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2012, 10:28:36 AM »
Great thread fellas, and hugely informative. However, I am rather disheartened to read that my interpretation as 'under the raging sun' has been sung in error for nearly 35 years :-(

Offline redk84

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2012, 10:57:28 AM »
brilliant thread this...i agree with those above ^

Penlan keep on rambling! could hear stories like that all day long.....would love to have been alive in that era of football...when it belonged to the people.
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Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2012, 11:18:09 AM »
The sad thing is, when will the divide between the fans and players stop widening?

Unfortunately I don't see a return to those days. It's a door that's closed. The gap, perhaps, will only continue to widen. I think the whole thing is way too much focused on finances and I understand the logic of it but that doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Unless the club joins the race it has no chance of making it. The Sky-ification of the game has seen to that. To have our nice well ordered stadia it seems we have to sacrifice that connection that was the envy of all other supporters. Unfortunately but understandably the new generation have no comparisons to make so they can only respond to the reality they know. I believe it's really important to keep alive, for as long as possible, the connection with older traditions whilst appreciating that each generation brings its own ideas. I wish some of the other lads, who I've lost contact with now, could see this thread so they could contribute their stories. That's how tradition is carried on.

Like I said in a previous post, it wasn't always glamourous. Like the time we hitched down to the old Highbury to watch us play Arsenal. We jumped on the 44d (don't know if that bus still runs). We take it to the Cherry Tree pub on the East Lancs and then hitch down to where the East Lancs met the M6. We'd wait at that junction and thumbed it till we got a lift. For London and further clubs we'd always leave on a Friday night ( for a Saturday afternoon game). It was a cold wet night and lifts were not great. Some lorry driver took us a few junctions down. We were really tired, wet and cold by this time so we bunked down in a farm barn or shed, can't remember really. Only to wake up in the morning in a panic. Anyway, long story short, we finally got to the end of the M1 on the outskirts of London  early afternoon on Saturday. Hungry, tired and no money (we were always confident we'd get into the ground in someway, if you get my drift). In those days the communication links were not as sophisticated as now and with no money we had to be careful that we didn't fall foul of the authorities. It seemed that everything worked against but we kept going. We missed the kick off but hoped that we'd get their for what we called 3/4 time. Partly hoping that we'd bunk a lift on a coach back. However, we got to Highbury just after the final whistle and met everyone coming out. We didn't get a lift back and had to do the whole process in reverse. We arrived back in Liverpool early hours Sunday morning. It didn't deter us though. Next away game we did it again. So not all glamourous but all worth it.

Offline Anfieldite

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #69 on: October 1, 2012, 09:51:18 AM »
Great stuff there Penlan, nice one!

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #70 on: October 1, 2012, 10:28:35 AM »
Thanks Anfieldite. Lots more but I don't to be a bore.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #71 on: October 1, 2012, 10:29:28 AM »
That should have read 'don't want to be a bore'.

Offline Devon Red

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #72 on: October 1, 2012, 11:24:24 AM »
That should have read 'don't want to be a bore'.

No chance of that penlan. Those are exactly the kind of stories I was hoping for with this thread. Some of us younger supporters (relatively younger anyway) like reading this kind of club history, the real stories from the supporters who were there at the time. By the time I started going to matches in the '90s football had changed so much from what you describe, for better and for worse, so it's a real education to hear about how it was for the older generations.

Offline RedTriumph

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #73 on: October 1, 2012, 11:44:11 AM »
Penlan, you're making this one of my favourite threads on RAWK.  Again, I'm a younger fan and this is only my fourth season of going to matches but I have a huge appreciation for the heritage, history and memories.  Don't feel you have to stop.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #74 on: October 1, 2012, 12:15:07 PM »
Here is an image from the 85 FA cup semi at Goodison.


wasn't there really bad vibes at this game, running battles outside afterwards etc?
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #75 on: October 1, 2012, 12:26:49 PM »
Also we tended not to sing about individual players really. We tended to sing about the team. Met Shankly
a few times and when a group of us were in Germany following the team on a pre-season summer tour. We camped and generally made our way to the venues whatever way we could (hitched around Germany). The last venue was Hannover, big army base there at the time, so lots of soldiers supporting us. However, being young, inexperienced and stupid we were skint and had no money to get in. The local police became a bit twitchy about 30 supporters and a load of soldiers milling round outside the ground. Near kick off time Shanks came out to talk with us (he must have been informed by the police). He asked us what the problem was. We told him we had no money to get in. 'Leave it with me', he said. He came back some minutes later, the doors to the ground opened and he ushered us in to the ground, escorted us to some really good seats and had food brought us. We couldn't believe it. He was a great man, a truly great man who loved the club and its supporters. Many more stories but I'm rambling.

that's a great story mate!
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Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #76 on: October 1, 2012, 01:34:14 PM »
When we were leaving to go on the pre-season tour to Germany had to get a coach from outside of St.Georges Hall to take us to London (where had arranged to make our way to Germany and meet up some with some others). For some reason the Echo got alerted to us going, I can't remember  how or why this would happen but anyway we were a front page picture in the Echo that night. We didn't see it until we arrived back. Somewhere in the Echo archives is a picture of us waiting for the bus. We also achieved a similar status in Germany. As I've said previously Hannover was the last venue and we were skint. We'd also been camping for the whole tour in Hamburg ang Cologne also(I think these were the other venues), so we didn't look in good nick. The German police and press viewed us with some suspicion and the local rag ran a piece about us being vagabonds and tramps or such like. Another part of the Shanks in Hannover story was that previous to Shanks coming out to see us, Sid Reakes, the Chairman, came out to see what all the fuss was about. As I said the police were quite wary of us. I don't think they'd come across a situation of foreign supporters coming to matches. Reakes asked us what we were doing there. Silly question really, we thought. When he heard that we had no funds he just looked at us and said something very much like, 'you shouldn't be here then should you'. We couldn't believe what he said so we just said with some sarcasm, 'thanks Mr. Reakes'., and he walked off. That's what made Bill Shankly's action so brilliant. By the end of that tour we hadn't eaten for about two days. We must have got food and drink somehow from somewhere though.

Offline Ron

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #77 on: October 1, 2012, 01:47:55 PM »
BEST THREAD I've seen in years on here !
Thanks !

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #78 on: October 1, 2012, 05:16:05 PM »
As said earlier, a group of us became disillusioned with the 'Official' supporters club, who we thought seemed a bit elitist and never attended some away games. We may have been wrong in this but that's what we thought. We decided to create an alternative 'Unofficial' supporters club and called it The Loyalists'. Our intention was to have some representation at every game Liverpool played, certainly in the UK and where possible in Europe but this was more difficult as transport abroad was not as easy as today and way more expensive. I remember me and some guys 'acquiring', (you couldn't but flags in those days unless they were official and they cost a fortune) a big flag from an official flagpole in some official type of building for some of the lads to take to an Eastern European game. It was way before the sophisticated banners and flags we have today (which are brilliant). i think it was a naval flag with the Union Jack in the top left hand corner and the the flag quarted by the St. George cross filling the rest up (maybe someone knows what this is). The lads went to the game and when it was shown on the TV (a recording, nothing live in those days) we saw the flag draped over one of the higher terraces/stands.

We organised our own football teams and registered and played in the Huyton & District on Sunday mornings. We ran an A and a B team, designed our own kit and even designed our own badge. I wish I would have kept something of it. In the same league was a team called Nor Star, I think, who was coached by Sandy Brown  (who scored that cracking own goal at a Goodison Derby). It seemed that all their players were all Evertonians . When we played them it was like a Derby, very tasty. We had some really good players who would have done really well if someone would have spotted them. Happy days. Someone might spot some of these details and chip in something of their own.

Offline penlan

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Re: What's the story behind...?
« Reply #79 on: October 1, 2012, 06:02:34 PM »
When talking about the 'Official' Supporters Club I refer to the one of the time I talk about.