Author Topic: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty  (Read 10697 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« on: February 28, 2005, 02:45:33 pm »
The psychology of football is strange when it comes to high-pressure situations. Score first, and instead of feeling confident you can become nervous –– as suddenly you have something to lose, especially if it's something you were not expected to win. It's like Joe Bloggs being happy and contented in his life, but then winning £10m on the lottery –– only to be told that he has to gamble it on an 'all or nothing' call on the flip of a coin –– heads (attack), or tails (defend). Gamble on going all-out for a second, with the equal risk of conceding; or try to stick with you've got, inviting trouble by defending in numbers, but with the option of hitting on the counter attack. Either tactic can win you the game as easily as lose it.

   Often it's easier to play better –– if not necessarily to win –– by going a goal behind. You then have nothing to lose, and it's possible to attack in a gung-ho fashion in such circumstances. Under Gerard Houllier, I felt we played better at Anfield if we went one-down, even though we didn't have the craft to reverse the deficit. Under Benitez, when we've gone a goal behind, we've improved, but also had the wherewithal to break through stubborn defences.

   Against opposition inferior to Chelsea we would have pushed on for more goals, just as we have done throughout Benitez's reign (especially at home), such as against Leverkusen last week. But as the game plan before the kick-off yesterday would have been, as clear underdogs, to keep things tight and try to nick a goal later in the game, we made the fatal mistake (in an ironic sense) of reaching the conclusion to our tactics 43 seconds into the match. After that, there were over 89 minutes to go, and we were caught in the difficult position of not wanting to let our surprise lead slip. But for a freakish own goal, the plan would have worked, as Chelsea had run out of ideas, and for all their possession, only troubled Dudek on a couple of occasions in normal time.

   Chelsea won largely because we didn't keep the ball well enough, and luck was yet again on their side, just as it had been on New Year's Day. One of the main reasons for our poor retention of the ball was the absence of our best 'keeper' of the ball, Xabi Alonso, ever since Chelsea's Frank Lampard 'did' him at Anfield. Chelsea, for all their possession, rarely troubled us in normal time, mainly due to the absence of their cutting edge, Arjen Robben. Ultimately Chelsea coped better –– in terms of ball retention –– without their best new recruit, while we created the better chances shorn of ours.

   Jose Mourinho (who is rapidly losing the plot, it seems) believes in rehearsing set moves, and having watched Chelsea three times this week, one move is clear: Lampard gets the ball in midfield and hits a high and looping diagonal pass into the channel for either Duff or Drogba to run onto. I must have seen it twenty times, in almost identical fashion. And it works. It's not about Lampard's vision, but everyone taking up rehearsed positions on the pitch. Everyone knows where they need to be, and what they need to do. Simple, but effective.

   Our second best passer, Gerrard, had been 'got' by Lampard during 2004, as part of Chelsea's unsettling efforts to prise him away from Anfield. That situation hasn't gone away, and the build up to this final had been more about Steven Gerrard than Liverpool and Chelsea. Under such enormous scrutiny, and with the spotlight on almost him alone, Gerrard (perhaps understandably, perhaps partly of his own making) wilted under the pressure. As with Euro 2004, he wasn't his normal self. He thundered into some early tackles, but one collision in the second half left him severely inhibited. By then, he'd faded from view, give or take the odd contribution.

   In some ways Gerrard cost us the game. Not with his unfortunate and freakish own goal, nor his close-range miss that, it transpired, Ferriera actually poked for a corner (another myopic moment from Steve Bennett). Gerrard gets criticized for doing too much at times, and perhaps that lay behind him heading into his own net, when Sami and Carra were there to head clear –– but better to try to do too much than to do too little? The backlash from some fans suggests how fickle they can be, and how short memories are. A handful of indifferent displays after two years of utter brilliance, and suddenly he's just some average player who we're better without, and who should be either dropped or stripped of the captaincy. Get real, people.

   Most of the key moments revolved around Gerrard, including Bennett's inexplicable refusal to award us a penalty when our captain was clearly hauled down in the box, with the score at 1-0. Given no Chelsea player was capable of scoring in the first 90 minutes, a victory would have been virtually assured had we converted the penalty it warranted. "Stone wall penalty" concurred Gary McAllister and ex-Chelsea captain and assistant manager, Ray Wilkins, and still a Chelsea fan. The ref was in a great position, as would Liverpool have been, had he not bottled the decision. What can you do when the referee makes a hideous error? Even if you are second best on the day, you have a right to expect fair and competent refereeing.

   Yet again we cannot receive the award of the obvious, the blatant, the nailed-on. It says it all when woeful Crystal Palace, who must get in the box once every game, have scored ten penalties this season from the boot of Andy Johnson (the man whose penalty miss helped us win the League Cup in 2001). We've come nowhere close to being awarded that many spotkicks. At least ten clear ones have now been waved away from our protests.

   The positives were there in our display, if ultimately we were second best in terms of possession. We created more clear-cut chances in this final than in any domestic final in recent years, and scored twice. This was against a Chelsea team who had conceded just eight league goals all season –– roughly one every three games. Gerard Houllier often spoke of shots at goal as a sign of superiority, but it's the quality of the chances that counts. At the Millennium stadium on Sunday, we didn't have as many shots on goal as Chelsea, but we had the best chances, certainly in normal time. Gerrard was nanoseconds too late to convert Nunez's cross –– any touch and it was a certain goal. Such are the margins between success and failure.

   We scored within a minute of the start, following a fantastic piece of play by Morientes –– volleyed in brilliantly by Riise, and the best move of the match resulted in Didi Hamann's second-half shot being tipped around the post by Peter Cech. Baros was clear on goal but his touch was too heavy, and Biscan headed narrowly over when under pressure, and his downward header had Cech scrambling in the last minute of extra time. Luis Garcia's replica volley of the Riise goal was heading into the top corner when miraculously blocked by a defender.

   Luck wasn't with us. Maybe we used it all up against Arsenal four years ago. By the start of the second half we'd lost two players –– Traore and Kewell –– to injury. Then Gerrard succumbed to a knock to his shin, while Dudek's was gashed wide open by Duff's studs, and was left in considerable pain.

   Dudek was superb in everything he did (the third goal was not his fault in the slightest, despite what some have suggested), but as I said last week, he's a magnificent talent. That doesn't change the fact that he remains too inconsistent. In the last two games he's made some miraculous saves, but you cannot afford a keeper who drops the easy shots, as he did against Leverkusen. The occasional rick is par for the course; but there has to be a cut-off point, where it becomes too frequent.
   
   There was no shame in defeat, in what ended up an exciting game. The effort was there, but composure and quality on the ball was lacking at times. We saw the best games in a Liverpool shirt by the awesome Steve Finnan (showing why I recently included him amongst our best players, in terms of potential), and the much-maligned Antonio Nunez, who appears to have spent his suspension on a special training programme (having missed pre-season and the autumn months), as he skinned William Gallas for pace on a couple of occasions (something you don't often see), as well as creating the chance of the match, and scoring a header while being fouled by John Terry. Trust me, he has natural ability. As I've maintained, he just needs time to settle and adjust.

   Luis Garcia put a terrific amount of energy into the match, and while his passing got sloppy as he tired, he used the ball smartly for most of the match. Didi Hamann did all he could and defied his age by scampering all over the pitch.

   Here's a way to look at why, for all our history and class (which Chelsea cannot buy), we were underdogs yesterday: Chelsea's parsimonious defence, at £50m, cost £10m more than our entire starting XI. Similarly, their midfield also cost £10m more than our entire team. And their lone striker cost nearly two-thirds of the sum of our side. Since their last trophy under Vialli a handful of years ago, they have spent £278m. Read that again: £278m.

   Chelsea were missing a couple of players, but we had as expensive a 5-a-side side team in the treatment room –– Alonso, Cisse, Kirkland, Sinama-Pongolle and Josemi –– as the eleven we could field. Similarly, last summer Liverpool sold or released on loan players whose transfer fees totalled a similar amount to our starting XI. Football is not all about money, but money talks, and money tells. In Chelsea's case, it screams obscenities.

   Perhaps a more fitting achievement for Benitez would be to progress farther in this season's Champions League. Chelsea will discover that Barcelona will have a lot more room at Stamford Bridge to attack them (Mourinho having used the same tactics as Benitez yesterday, when they took an early lead at the Nou Camp last week), and that Eto'o –– whose phenomenal pace matches Cissé's –– will hurt them on the break, something we couldn't look to with Morientes. (Partnering him with Baros may have pushed Chelsea back; alternatively, it could have enabled Chelsea even more space in midfield).

   While in the circumstances I'd never have bet on Liverpool winning the Carling Cup, I do feel we'll get a result in Germany, and that Chelsea will draw or lose at home to Barcelona. That would see some Red smiles, I'd wager. Being ranked as one of the best eight teams in Europe would be a massive boost for everyone at Anfield, as would clawing back Everton's current lead in the league. I'd also bet every penny I have that whatever happens this season, we'll finish far higher than Everton next year. That's when we'll see full proof of just how good Benitez really is.

© Paul Tomkins 2005

As ever, to register a (purely provisional) interest in purchasing Golden Past, Red Future when it is published this summer, please email tomkins_lfcbook@btinternet.com or visit www.paultomkins.com

« Last Edit: February 28, 2005, 06:02:31 pm by Paul Tomkins »

Offline SeanPenn

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 03:03:00 pm »
Good read Paul!
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Offline Slugworth

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 03:12:45 pm »
Nicely put as usual PT, and im glad someone else thought Chelsea looked finished just before the equaliser. We were starting to see more of the ball and holding onto it better, then the goal changed everything. I feel Rafa may have played things differently tactically if it weren't for his hand being forced into substituting Kewell and Traore.

Guess we will just have to win the CL instead ;D
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Offline wet echo

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2005, 03:29:14 pm »
thanks paul lifted the gloom over me today,i think you should pick up the phone tonight on the merseyside phone in at 7 would be nice to hear your common sense approach on the radio

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2005, 03:35:47 pm »
It was beginning to look relatively comfortable as the game went on. We were finding lots of space all over the park. That o.g. was a real killer.

I agree entirely with the sentiment about us finishing higher than Everton next year. The reason the likes of Everton and Bolton have done well this season is because of the vacuum left by both Liverpool and, to be fair, Newcastle. Two teams undergoing transition off the pitch to the cost of consitency on the pitch. Liverpool have nearly everything in place to be a great force again, but for a few obstacles. These include an injury-free run, Rafa to really impose his footballing phiosophy and significant investment.

I do despise Chelsea but we are playing catch-up and I would love to see us keep the ball in the same manner as they did yesterday.

On the whole I agree with the optimism within your post. The fickle reactions of some on here would suggest that many simply do not know football. Rafa's in it for the long-term, quick-fixes are often built on sand. Lets give it time.

Offline Spartacus.

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2005, 03:40:54 pm »
I stopped reading at the calling fans like me fickle part– I’ve never been a fickle supporter in my life and if I have a very different opinion on Steven than you then that’s my right and you would do better to try and understand other peoples opinions (hey it is a forum) and yes disagree rather than slag people like me.
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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2005, 03:46:05 pm »
I stopped reading at the calling fans like me fickle part– I’ve never been a fickle supporter in my life and if I have a very different opinion on Steven than you then that’s my right and you would do better to try and understand other peoples opinions (hey it is a forum) and yes disagree rather than slag people like me.

I think the irritating thing for some is that people react to something without thinking it through. The calls for SG to be dropped as out captain and to be sold a.s.a.p. seem so extreme and, yes, fickle. I'm sure those same 'fans' were not calling for his sale after the Olympiakos game or on other such occassions.

I can honestly not understand a single argument that would suggest that we'd be better off without him. I agree that he hasn't been Mr Tactful of late but that doesn't mean he's the anti-christ.

Offline Spartacus.

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2005, 03:53:51 pm »
I can honestly not understand a single argument that would suggest that we'd be better off without him. I agree that he hasn't been Mr Tactful of late but that doesn't mean he's the anti-christ.

and thats your opinion - I can and do understand the argument of why we would be better without him and I wont be slagged off as a Liverpool fan and called fickle because I hold the same opinion that I did six months ago.

But I don't want Paul's thread to turn into yet another boring Steven thread, I try and ignore them - so I'll leave it be.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2005, 03:54:21 pm »
I stopped reading at the calling fans like me fickle part– I’ve never been a fickle supporter in my life and if I have a very different opinion on Steven than you then that’s my right and you would do better to try and understand other peoples opinions (hey it is a forum) and yes disagree rather than slag people like me.


I know you're not fickle, Christine. It wasn't intended for you, as your views stretch further back than the latest incident. I still disagree with you, but I don't think you, as an individual, are fickle. It was aimed at those turning on him overnight - i.e., the fickle ones.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2005, 03:56:10 pm by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2005, 04:01:50 pm »
Also, there's a big difference between suggesting we may be better off without him (an argument I can support on some levels, and disagree with on others), and calling him a c*nt, or saying that he didn't give a shit yesterday, or suggesting that he's actually a crap player, or suggesting he's been crap this season, or suggesting that he scored the own goal on purpose - all of which I've read on RAWK.

We are not a one-man team who would be nothing without the presence of our captain, but by the same token he is not some overrated journeyman who doesn't give a shit about LFC and who's done nothing for us.

Offline spicer

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2005, 04:11:05 pm »
We have to try to look on the bright side
We got to the final of the Carling Cup
We are the only English team to win our Champions League match last week.
five feckin times!!!!!!

Offline Thommo's Beak

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2005, 04:12:04 pm »
Again, a good post mate, keeping a sense of balance on yesterdays game. I don't know if people were just drunk and angry yesterday but they were comparing the game to a Houllier style performance and even the England Portugal game! I mean come on, Benitez is a cleverer manager than Sven and Ged.

I was gutted myself and just felt that at the moment it's Chelsea's time but again, just like on New Years day I've taken a lot of heart from the game as we are playing some nice stuff at times.

Although it does pain me I think the biggest blow for us this weekend was Everton's win a Villa, hats off to them because that win shows a lot of character and I think we may not catch them now.

Finally, spot-on as well with the Lampard long ball tactic spotted it myself in the last two games they've played, that boy is over-rated.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2005, 04:15:17 pm »
Finally, spot-on as well with the Lampard long ball tactic spotted it myself in the last two games they've played, that boy is over-rated.


Not saying he's over-rated (he may well be, though), just that it wasn't some great vision in spotting the runs - instead it was a rehearsed move where he just hits it into the same area every time. Still takes quality to hit the pass with the right weight, but I don't think he's someone who has exceptional vision.

Offline Darren Page1

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2005, 04:22:01 pm »
Well put Paul--i too dont think Gerard is a bad player or a c*nt--i just dont want him to treat Liverpool FC like shit and think if ever there was a time to stand up and be counted it would be now--hes been vocal negatively  in recent times, well maybe he needs to stand up vocally now too (which has never been his style) thats why id replace him with Carra--and thats not a knee jerk reaction--i think you need a vocal leader on the pitch --all the great captains were and are.
Only point i tend not to agree with you on is Nunez--i hardly think skinning Gallas who played all game with a dodgy hamstring has showed me hes turned a corner-- remember when he only came on with 30mins left--hope your right though--

Offline RogerE

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2005, 04:44:48 pm »
I had the feeling as we kept missing the few breakaway chances that we created (and when Bennett denied us the penalty) that it wasn't going to be our day. Defending deep and hitting on the break can work if you keep the ball when you get it and if you take one or two of the chances you create but yesterday we gave the ball away almost as soon as we got it and Hamann, Gerrard and Baros missed crucial chances (ok, Hamann's was well saved).
Another disappointing aspect was comments by the Chelsea players that they thought we were tiring in the second half - if so that's terrible, after all it was Chelsea who'd had two tough away defeats in 6 days and should have been more knackered than us.

Offline Thommo's Beak

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2005, 04:48:14 pm »
I think Nunez is improving and his crosses are really going to be a bonus for us in the future. I also thinkh he adds balance to the team.

I'm not saying that Tomkins was saying that Lampard is over-rated but the passes he hits are not the most subtle as the one against Barca was really Sunday league stuff and was only made good by Duff's amazing control.

After yesterday I do think that we have the more intelligent manager.
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Offline rednotdead

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2005, 04:55:50 pm »
I was as gutted as everyone else by the final whistle and am only now coming out of my depression.

It strikes me we were as unlucky yesterday as we were lucky in our treble season - yes, that unlucky.

A perfectly decent shout for a penalty ignored and SG inches away from making it 2-0.. the own goal .. and then their second when Johnson wound himself up so much to hurl that predigious long throw (that Sami unaccountably ducked under) that he ended up two or three feet on the pitch.

But then it has to be said that we were taking a chance retreating so deep - which set me wondering - how different were Rafa's tactics to those of GH which we all hated so much ?

Well, I reckon they are different in that Rafa wants us to play our way out of trouble by keeping the ball then trying to move forward as a Unit whilst GH had a greater emphasis on keeping behind the ball come what may.

Which leads me to my main point. How many of the current squad have the skill, intelligence , technique and confidence to keep hold of the ball when the pressure's really on ? Hamann, Alonso. Morientes definitely .. Nunez showed signs yesterday and I think Finnan and Carragher could be up for it.. perhaps a 100 per cent fit Kewell (if there is such a creature) and that's about it.... (not even SG - his attributes lie elsewhere).

Certainly not Riise, Biscan, Hyppia, Baros, Garcia (although his inventiveness does give us another dimension), Smicer

I don't know about Cisse - but my God I can't wait to see him haring (God willing)  down the inside right channel after one of Morientes gorgeous flicks.

Depression over. I reckon we don't need that many extra faces to make us a force - just trust that the ones we can afford by the summer add as much to the curerent team as alonso and Morientes.

The future's bright. the future's RAFA.

Offline BazC

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2005, 04:57:08 pm »
brilliant mate- and 100% correct (AGAIN!  :o).

this is the only post i'm going to read in the next few days as i don't want to hear of any fickle fans after the defeat- and also the fact that any memory of the game makes me sad/pissed off/angry/depressed- whatever it is.

thanks again.

P.S- well done to dudek and nunez who had incredible games- in dudeks case butter seemed to turn into glue... and well done nunez- shame your first goal couldn't come in an instance where there would have been a celebratory atmosphere.
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Offline Darren Page1

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2005, 04:57:13 pm »



After yesterday I do think that we have the more intelligent manager.
Quote

not only intelligent and tactically astute--but just the way he holds himself with such poise--the level of respect he receives from around the league maybe should be noted by Jose --as everyone not in Blue is waiting for him to fall--tired of his "im a european champion and that cup still belongs to me" as well

Offline Thommo's Beak

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2005, 05:27:30 pm »
I agree the man is a prick and the media love him. I was watching Sky Sports news on Friday and his interview went on for ages and he had fuck all to say that was of any purpose. It's just become a little circus act with him and the papers.

I think when things fall for the man, and they will, a lot of people will not show sympathy. I still think he's been a lucky manager as well so far (although I'm not doubting his talents). I just remember the story of Icarus.
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Offline 50 Pence

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2005, 05:27:58 pm »
Think it was a really good, review there.  :scarf :scarf :thumbup

On the Gerrard matter he's just a bit off form at the moment, and even thou he wasn't at his best Lampard wasn't really in the game til Gerrard got clattered by Makalele.

Played some good stuff, but gave the ball away too much and easily as we tired, and as you said they had run out of ideas and we started to keep the ball better and create some great chances before, and not for the first time this season, our luck deserted us. An inch further over and it's against the post. More positives than negatives to take from this game IMO
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Offline lurker

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2005, 05:40:15 pm »
Quote
in dudeks case butter seemed to turn into glue...

Yeah, I thought Dudek looked alot more confident yesterday - came for crosses and collected, some great reflex stops.... and I had to wonder - was it just that there wasn't a yellow Nike ball in sight?!?!?!

Even if the ball isn't always to blame for his mistakes, could it be that the keeper is delaying his reaction to its' movement as he's waiting for it to finish it's speed-wobble before he commits himself? This then looks like a "lack of concentration" when it bounces off his shoulder.....

just a thought.....

Offline flying red

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2005, 05:40:45 pm »
Excellent read. 

I thought Strachan made a good point in the Grauniad today - we played most of the game with Garcia as the advanced midfield player keeping Makalele busy.  When Garcia switched to the left after Djimi went off, Makalele had more time and space to pass forward.

One typo you may want to sort out though:


  And their loan striker cost nearly two-thirds of the sum of our side.

Drogba was bought outright, he's not on loan.  He played as a lone strike yesterday though.  ;-)

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2005, 05:43:54 pm »
.... and for £24 million..... jeez, that's a laugh!!!!  ;D

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2005, 05:50:43 pm »
.... and for £24 million..... jeez, that's a laugh!!!!  ;D

yup keep him and the £24 mill--id rather have Nando for £6 mill

Offline Byrnee

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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2005, 06:02:32 pm »
Another top article Paul.

All too true about the penalties, it does seem harsh, I can't see it balancing out (unless we get ten dodgy pens before the seasons out, including ones to win the only trophy we can, it won't!)

But in fairness they were much the better side yesterday. Although, as you rightly point out, that was mainly due to our sudden backs-to-the-wall mentality brought about by Riise's fantastic strike.

We still could have won, great strike by Hamann, great save by Cech. But then, Jerzy saved our bacon with that great double stop initially from Gudjonssens perfectly placed header.

I am ever the optimist. A match like this can have repercussions we just won't know about yet.

Winning can give your side the right mentality, determination and desire to repeat the success but just as easily (remember us in 1995) it can promote a feeling of over-confidence, lacklustre performances and at the end of the day, with us that could mean serious problems.

What we have to hope for is that in defeat we rise stronger than ever, determined to grab that 4th spot by hook or by crook. We have to fight for every ball now, like we did against Leverkusen. I'm confident of getting to the Quarter-Finals, an immense achievement given what Rafa has had to put up with this season. Remeber how many, many pundits and a fair few of our supporters thought we wouldn't escape the group stage? So to get that far (maybe further?), to be finalists in another Cup & grab 4th would be a remarkably sign of hope for us all.

We have a while to go yet. This summer will obviously be very important. (When the fuck isn't a Liverpool summer spree important?!!) But with the right players (and rest assured, if he gets the funds, I believe Rafa will get the RIGHT PLAYERS) we could be a surprise package, at least to those who think we're going to be eternally seeking 4th place.

In the same way that losing could motivate us, so could Everton's impressive win at Villa. Let's face it, we're normally at our best when we're up against it. To get 4th and have some more fun in this years Champions League well, we'd probably all have sacrificed the League Cup for that, it just hurts at the moment to admit it - and to not be sure we'll get any of the above.

When we look back at this season in June, we may be looking back on a revenge mission beating Chelsea in the Champions League (nice to hear Stevie suggest this, of all players) or even getting past one of the big guns (AC, Barca, Real?) Or maybe we'll just get further than any other English club.

We may look back on a tremendous victory over our neighbours, which swung the pendulum of Champions League Qualification back towards Anfield.

We may look back with regret, Who knows? One things for sure, it's going to be an exciting end for us and we'll be there kicking every ball, just like yesterday.

Keep the faith.


'Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool.'
Bill Shankly


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At The End Of The Storm I

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2005, 06:03:35 pm »
Drogba was bought outright, he's not on loan.  He played as a lone strike yesterday though.  ;-)


 :butt

 ;D

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2005, 06:05:50 pm »
Byrnee - I'm confident of finishing fourth, but April will be a massive month - six league games, not to mention Champions League if we beat Leverkusen, as expected.

Hopefully Xabi will be back to boost us...

Offline Darren Page1

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2005, 06:06:48 pm »
Like ive said before though --not as concerned with the penalty calls as i am with Dudek errors, Baros control issues etc etc

Offline Dermot

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2005, 06:28:47 pm »
Paul, i've been looking forward to this since 9 this morning. thanks for the good read
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Offline Fairytale of 2005

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2005, 06:55:23 pm »
I think Lampard is rubbish, but that's just my opinion. Good call on the long balls that he lumps. He has a decent shot on him & err that's about it. He's just another example of the london based media cream fest.

Offline Vinay

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2005, 10:20:40 pm »
Without being fickle, and based on the last couple of games he has had lately, I am asking myself whether it will be better to start with Biscan and Hamman against Leverkusen, and then bring on Gerrard in the second half.

Just my opinion, of course.

Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2005, 10:28:37 pm »
I think Lampard is rubbish, but that's just my opinion. Good call on the long balls that he lumps. He has a decent shot on him & err that's about it. He's just another example of the london based media cream fest.

Yes he has been overrated by the papers but no way is he rubbish - he can score goals, he drives Chelsea and has been on top form for the last coupla seasons - but he cant hold a candle to Stevie thats for sure

Another good one Paul, lets just pick ourselves up and take 3 points next week  :wave
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2005, 10:31:24 pm »
Without being fickle, and based on the last couple of games he has had lately, I am asking myself whether it will be better to start with Biscan and Hamman against Leverkusen, and then bring on Gerrard in the second half.

Just my opinion, of course.


It's easy to say something like that, far harder to do it if you're boss. Lose with Gerrard in the team and there'll be grumbles, but leave him out and lose? - there'd be all hell breaking lose, believe me.

For what it's worth, I think Hamann, Gerrard AND Biscan will all start, with Gerrard ahead of the other two.

Offline Kop4

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #34 on: March 1, 2005, 12:13:35 am »
Gerrard gets criticized for doing too much at times, and perhaps that lay behind him heading into his own net, when Sami and Carra were there to head clear –– but better to try to do too much than to do too little? The backlash from some fans suggests how fickle they can be, and how short memories are. A handful of indifferent displays after two years of utter brilliance, and suddenly he's just some average player who we're better without, and who should be either dropped or stripped of the captaincy. Get real, people.

As a professional, doing too much is as bad as doing too little.  It's about doing the right thing. cf 'not the long ball / short ball..'

If SG gets criticised, it is precisely because he is so quick to chastise his team-mates / club for their perceived failings.  Live by the sword.........

Any words of contrition from SG regarding his no-show on Sunday? (ignoring the og).  Not that I am aware.  Any team-mates bad mouthing him?  No.

Olympiacos aside, SG has not really performed well in the big games this season.

Maybe he is carrying too much baggage at present to be captain.  You can't call fans fickle for questioning that.
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Offline seattlered

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #35 on: March 1, 2005, 05:31:17 am »
A good read indeed but for the first time I feel a lot of emotion in PT's article. I can't blame him, I cstill can't get over the defeat. Still gutted.


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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #36 on: March 1, 2005, 08:02:34 am »
Without being fickle, and based on the last couple of games he has had lately, I am asking myself whether it will be better to start with Biscan and Hamman against Leverkusen, and then bring on Gerrard in the second half.

Just my opinion, of course.


It's easy to say something like that, far harder to do it if you're boss. Lose with Gerrard in the team and there'll be grumbles, but leave him out and lose? - there'd be all hell breaking lose, believe me.

For what it's worth, I think Hamann, Gerrard AND Biscan will all start, with Gerrard ahead of the other two.

This I think is symptomatic of the clubs difficulty at present.
Steven Gerrard has become bigger than the club, everything is now measured in terms of his performance, attitude, public utterings etc etc.
Now we are saying that the team manager can not even think of replacing SG because of the ramifications should we lose. I thought the manager had the power to pick the team?.
Until this matter is corrected it will continue to be devisive.

On the matter of the final, we played well; but they were better because they were able to retain possession better. Simply they have more quality player than we do, a situation I think the manager will correct given time.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #37 on: March 1, 2005, 09:01:33 am »
Olympiacos aside, SG has not really performed well in the big games this season.


He was superb at home against Arsenal, and also against Monaco in the Champions League. Also, the qualifiers against Graz were big games, and away he was sublime. He was carrying an injury against the Mancs at home, and got injured at their place, missing the visit to Chelsea. There have been times when he's not been the all-conquering superhero, that's not in question.

I agree that of course it's about doing the right thing. But trying too hard has to be more commendable than not trying at all? 

Why I feel he can't now leave this summer is precisely because on certain occasions he has let his teammates down. So I feel he owes them. But that's just my own feeling on it.

Offline 50 Pence

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #38 on: March 1, 2005, 09:37:15 am »
He just tries to do too much cos he doesn't have faith in the rest of the midfield. Should change when Xabi comes back as we all know that Stevie rates him, then he can concentrate on doing what he does best rather than try to carry the team.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: A Blow, But Our Cup Remains Half-Full, Not Half-Empty
« Reply #39 on: March 1, 2005, 09:44:26 am »
He just tries to do too much cos he doesn't have faith in the rest of the midfield. Should change when Xabi comes back as we all know that Stevie rates him, then he can concentrate on doing what he does best rather than try to carry the team.


The two together do remain a mouth-watering prospect - we saw enough examples of how good they can be together, but both have missed large chunks of the season with broken limbs, at different times. Xabi allows Gerrard to get forward and leave the playmaking from deep to him.