Author Topic: RTK piece in the Post  (Read 3796 times)

Offline scutty

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2006, 10:16:41 pm »
remember rtk'er,

when you point the finger of blame, there will be 5 pointing back at you ;)
Why was my post deleted?

Offline anfieldanfield

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2006, 10:29:42 pm »
Agree with most of whats been said, but did it occur to him that the reason the atmosphere was so good against chelsea was because there was so much at stake rather than it just happening to be a game that more 'true' fans were at?  Back in the 80's EVERY game was a big game. A league win would either maintain top spot in the league, or go along way towards reaching it.  These days we're too far behind the leading pack for league games to generate that kind of excitement and importance.  Yes we need the points, but we aint gonna win the league this year, and haven't looked like doing so for all the time since we last did, and while the race for 4th spot is important, it's hardly likely to ignite the 'magic' of a propper sustained championship challenge.  I'm all for more of an effort on the part of us fans, but its no surprise that the quality of atmosphere appears to have decreased along with the quality of football......bring on Barca!!

Good post, a fundamental point well made, and something which a lot people, rather oddly, tend to overlook.


Offline Stan.

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2006, 10:20:42 am »
Good post, a fundamental point well made, and something which a lot people, rather oddly, tend to overlook.


Agree, and you're the only person to even acknowledge my post about it.  Not that I'm bothered, but I do think I'm right.  We've had no big meaningfull games at home so far this season, none of the big boys, and no real test in europe or the cups.  I'm not saying this is an excuse for poor atmosphere, but if we were up there with Chelsea and Man U fighting for that top spot, all of a sudden league games against the likes of Blackburn and Reading take on alot more importance, and generate more passion and excitement from the crowd.  I do agree with RTK's ideas, but rather than lay the blame at the door of so-called stereotypical clueless oot's, I think the blame should be attributed equally between fans and club.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 10:22:33 am by dbphase »
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Offline Conde

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2006, 10:40:32 am »
If you've actually read any links directly from RTK you would see the blame isn't given to the "so-called stereotypical clueless oots" it is every Liverpool fan who needs to sort there act out, well the majority.

Offline Stan.

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2006, 11:18:24 am »
If you've actually read any links directly from RTK you would see the blame isn't given to the "so-called stereotypical clueless oots" it is every Liverpool fan who needs to sort there act out, well the majority.

Yes, I've read them all, my point wasn't really about that, but its typical that someone would pick up on that, whilst continuing to ignore the fact that our performances in league football have been poor for 16 years. I was using that as an example of what alot of people believe accounts for the poor attmosphere at games, when what I'm trying to say is - did all these people stay at home for chelsea, or was it because it was a champions league semi-final?  I didn't mean to make it sound like the oot thing was RTK's view, I'm sure its not, but comments such as:

Then it was almost exclusively populated by locally-born working class males who prided themselves with introducing innovative anthemic chants to the grounds of the English Football League and, despite their vociferous partisan support, retaining a sense of fair play to any opposition that showed its worth.

But the organisers of a new campaign group - Reclaim The Kop - believe these core values are becoming eroded by a newer generation of fans, many of whom travel to the ground from other areas of the country and who are ignorant of the old ways.


do suggest that possibly in their heart of hearts thats who they do blame.  I was simply suggesting that it is possibly more team performance based.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 11:26:44 am by dbphase »
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Offline paulcompton

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2006, 11:26:27 am »
The Kop looks to the future to reclaim Anfield's glorious past
Dec 15 2006There will be a 10-week information series on the club's official website which will include a teach yourself Kop songs karaoke feature, complete with bouncing ball prompter.

Please tell me that is a joke

Offline Conde

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2006, 11:28:55 am »
Yes, I've read them all, my point wasn't really about that, but its typical that someone would pick up on that, whilst continuing to ignore the fact that our performances in league football have been poor for 16 years.

Don't post something then moan if i make a point about it, what you said was wrong, end off.

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2006, 11:38:44 am »
The Kop, and Liverpool FC, should always put the local working-class first.

Fuck the middle and upper-classes. If I had my way, they wouldn't be allowed in a football ground anyway, but thats not for this thread. The club should always place its local fans at the top of the pile, end of story.

Sadly, with Sky, it seems football has sold its arse to commercialism, and we seem to be going the same way, although we held on to our individuality longer than other clubs. Sadly, it appears some nobbers have become large parts of our support, all round the ground, hence the "eas-eh" chanting, that stupid big fucking clapping seal thing that goes with it, and bollocks generic chants. Oh, and it seems people like to sing about Chelsea. When we're playing someone like Portsmouth.

RTK needs to happen, it will save our clubs heritage.

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Offline Rizla

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2006, 11:43:01 am »
Agree with most of whats been said, but did it occur to him that the reason the atmosphere was so good against chelsea was because there was so much at stake rather than it just happening to be a game that more 'true' fans were at?  Back in the 80's EVERY game was a big game. A league win would either maintain top spot in the league, or go along way towards reaching it.  These days we're too far behind the leading pack for league games to generate that kind of excitement and importance.  Yes we need the points, but we aint gonna win the league this year, and haven't looked like doing so for all the time since we last did, and while the race for 4th spot is important, it's hardly likely to ignite the 'magic' of a propper sustained championship challenge.  I'm all for more of an effort on the part of us fans, but its no surprise that the quality of atmosphere appears to have decreased along with the quality of football......bring on Barca!!

Yep...think that is basically the problem. Reckon if we were still the best club in the land and that every game was important in the respect of being a game that could put us top in the league rather than a scramble for the CL spots game against Bolton or whatever, think the concerns about the atmosphere would be less evident. Not only because people will be in a better frame of mind and less prone due to frustration at average on field performances to moan at their own fans, but also the crowd would be more collectively confident, vocal and up for it

The problem though with this campaign is that it can be easily confused, and although the author of the article is at pains to point out that it isnt a OOT issue [and he is right in the main, that isnt what it's supposed to be], he does unfortunately make a conscious or unconscious link in this article between the influx of non local fans and the decline of atmosphere and the appearance of Soccer AM easy easy who are yer shite. Unfortunately though, this disease is endemic amongst all UK football fans, there are young impressionable Scousers and Non Scousers who watch Soccer AM, think Lovejoy is a laugh and that the Easy chant is cool and funny. Have spoken to one or two matchgoers in my family and they have mentioned this campaign and that one or two fans around them have got crossed wires about it in that they think it's a claim to reclaim the Kop from OOT's, and they have heard a few 'kick the woolies off the Kop' chants. The campaign is a good one, and maybe necessary but it does need to be watched to ensure the message isnt warped in to something it shouldnt be :-\

Offline fru

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2006, 12:00:54 pm »
Please tell me that is a joke

Yeah it's a bit camp, but I can't think of a better way to teach the songs to the masses. It's got to be more helpful than just printing the words.

A lot of people want to sing and know the tunes to the songs that they hear in Anfield just not the words, the karaoke thing should help them match it up and join in with the singing if they want to.

Offline paulcompton

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2006, 12:01:14 pm »
Sadly, with Sky, it seems football has sold its arse to commercialism, and we seem to be going the same way, although we held on to our individuality longer than other clubs.

You have to remember that it was the 1st division clubs that went to the FA demanding the right to break away from the football league to form the premier league, it was not sky. The reason they did this was to keep all the TV money for themselves and to create a more attractive "product". The two men who represented the 1st division clubs during these negotiations were David Dein, Arsenal director, and our old friend Noel White, Liverpool director.

The greed of the clubs and the men behind them, led by Arsenal and Liverpool, is the reason why the game has now firmly left its working class roots behind.

Offline Rushian

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2006, 12:30:20 pm »
The Kop, and Liverpool FC, should always put the local working-class first.

Fuck the middle and upper-classes. If I had my way, they wouldn't be allowed in a football ground anyway, but thats not for this thread.

In which case everyone who has ever posted on an internet forum from home should be banned from the game. The vast majority of the population who once would have been classed as working class in the days when the atmosphere was buzzing would now be classed as middle class due to the improvements in the general economy, wages, disposable income etc

How do you define your class, by that of your parents, or that of your current circumstances?
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Offline Stan.

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2006, 01:10:43 pm »
Don't post something then moan if i make a point about it, what you said was wrong, end off.

Why was it? I'm not moaning - I agreed and said I didn't mean to make it sound like all RTK was, was anti-oot. I was saying thats what alot of people do say and RTK do hint at it from time to time (which they do, evidence is in the opening post of this thread), but I do agree with the majority of RTK ideas.  The point I was trying to make, if YOU could be bothered to read it, was that the atmosphere at games has decreased along with the team's league performances, and the atmosphere has returned when we play ocasional games of massive importance such as the champions league semi-final.  That tells me that success on the field breeds enthusiasm in the stands.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 01:15:43 pm by dbphase »
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Offline Stan.

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2006, 01:14:24 pm »
The Kop, and Liverpool FC, should always put the local working-class first.

Fuck the middle and upper-classes.


So what about a young local working class kid, who's liverpool daft, goes to uni and gets himself a decent job - should he no longer be allowd to support the club he loves, and ridiculed and snarled at by the likes of you?!  Thats ridiculous, the club should be open to anybody who has the passion to support it.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 01:16:30 pm by dbphase »
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Offline scutty

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Re: RTK piece in the Post
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2006, 01:11:39 pm »
remember rtk'er,

when you point the finger of blame, there will be 5 pointing back at you ;)

I live at sellafield.

Why was my post deleted?