Author Topic: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories  (Read 830523 times)

Offline ALANM

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #600 on: October 24, 2011, 11:20:23 pm »
I remember that Forest game well. Forest tried to play a high defensive line, and Owen absolutely blitzed them with his pace. Turned out to be Evans last win as Liverpool's manager/joint manager. The next time we won was 4 weeks later at Villa when Houllier was in sole charge.

Offline ALANM

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #601 on: October 24, 2011, 11:32:19 pm »
Should create a list of the most awful away grounds  ;)


Oldham. Went there in January 1992 when they were a top flight club. We won 3-2, but there was a freezing wind blowing in off the Pennines and I'm sure they had ice under the terracing on the then open away end. Coldest I've ever been at a match!!

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #602 on: October 25, 2011, 08:02:43 am »
Today In History
October 25th



1969 Southampton (Division One) Anfield 4-1
Emlyn Hughes 10' Roger Hunt 83' 84' Anthony Byrne (OG) 88'
Att 41,611

1975 Derby County (Division One) Anfield 1-1
John Toshack 27'
Att 46,324

1980 Arsenal (Division One) Anfield 1-1
Graeme Souness 48'
Att 40,310

1983 Brentford (Milk Cup 2ed round 2ed leg) Anfield 4-0
Graeme Souness 37'(Pen) David Hodgson 64' Kenny Dalglish 69' Michael Robinson 86'
Att 9,902
1986 Luton Town (Division One) Kenilworth Road 1-4
Jan Molby 81'
Att 13,140

1989 Arsenal (Littlewoods Cup 3erd Round) Highbury 0-1
Att 40,814

1992 Norwich City (Premier League) Anfield 4-1
Michael Thomas 15' Don Hutchison 20' David Burrows 52' Mark Walters 90'(Pen)
Att 36,318

1994 Stoke City (Coca Cola Cup 3erd round) Anfield 2-1
Ian Rush 4' 56'
Att 32,060

1995 Manchester City (Coca Cola Cup 3erd round) Anfield 4-0
John Scales 9' Robbie Fowler 74' Ian Rush 79' Steve Harkness 82'
Att 29,394

1997 Derby County (Premier League) Anfield 4-0
Robbie Fowler 26' 84' Oyvind Leonhardsen 65' Steve McManaman 89'
Att 38,017

2003 Leeds United (Premier League) Anfield 3-1
Michael Owen 35' Danny Murphy 57' Pongolle 84'
Att 43,599

2005 Crystal Palace (Carling Cup 3erd round) Selhurst Park 1-2
Steven Gerrard 40'
Att 19,673

2006 Reading (Carling Cup 3erd round) Anfield 4-3
Robbie Fowler 44' John Arne Riise 45' Gabriel Paletta 49' Peter Crouch 76'
Att 42,445

BIRTHDAYS ON THIS DAY

David Burrows (43)
Daniele Padelli (26)

TRANSFERS ON THIS DAY

IN

Mike Hooper (1985)


DEBUTS ON THIS DAY

Øyvind Leonhardsen (1997)
Florent Stéphane Sinama Pongolle (2003)
Gabriel Alejandro Paletta (2006)
Danny Guthrie (2006)
Lee Anthony Peltier (2006)
James Smith (2006)

SCORED ON DEBUT

Øyvind Leonhardsen (1997)
Florent Stéphane Sinama Pongolle (2003)
Gabriel Alejandro Paletta (2006)


Separate entry for this magic day in 2009
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 08:04:43 am by Rafa_La »
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #603 on: October 25, 2011, 08:06:02 am »
2009 Manchester United (Premier League) Anfield 2-0
Fernando Torres 65' David Ngog 90'
Att 44,188

***- Nemanja Vidic sent off for the third consecutive game vs Liverpool!
- Benitez said post-match: "From the keeper to the last fan on the Kop, we were not going to be beaten. The players just did not want to lose and this was the perfect response. With the fans getting behind the team, we had 12 men on the pitch. We’ve answered a lot of questions." ***


Truly believed that day it was our year.
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #604 on: October 25, 2011, 08:22:12 am »
2009 Manchester United (Premier League) Anfield 2-0
Fernando Torres 65' David Ngog 90'
Att 44,188

***- Nemanja Vidic sent off for the third consecutive game vs Liverpool!
- Benitez said post-match: "From the keeper to the last fan on the Kop, we were not going to be beaten. The players just did not want to lose and this was the perfect response. With the fans getting behind the team, we had 12 men on the pitch. We’ve answered a lot of questions." ***


Truly believed that day it was our year.

I didn't. We had just lost three or four in a row. Now the year before when we beat them...

Remember that city game in the league cup, we went on to beat them 6-0 a few days later.

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #605 on: October 25, 2011, 08:48:07 am »
1969 Southampton (Division One) Anfield 4-1
Emlyn Hughes 10' Roger Hunt 83' 84' Anthony Byrne (OG) 88'
Att 41,611

Roger's final League goals for Liverpool. A few weeks later he became a Bolton Wanderers player.

Those goals against Southampton are at the end of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z074qNJnEVw
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 08:57:33 am by kriss »

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #606 on: October 25, 2011, 09:08:16 am »
I didn't. We had just lost three or four in a row. Now the year before when we beat them...

Remember that city game in the league cup, we went on to beat them 6-0 a few days later.

Have I confused seasons again?  :butt

Nice one! Thought someone would pick up on the city game :champ
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
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Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #607 on: October 25, 2011, 09:33:50 am »
palace game was a nightmare off the pitch

was double jobbing at the time. in the office some 80odd year old reported me for being unhelpful on the phone.

she had literally just rang going "hi do you remember me" if it happened now i think id have let out a big shriek  "FRANKIE"

she refused to tell me her name, now we got about 100 calls a day so some going "its me" was enough to confuse anyone. turned out she had never once spoken to me before despite her insistence and she ended up going "sure what good is it talking to you" and slammed the phone down. was really in a bad mood all day after that.

later on my second job was delivering take aways. it was pissing rain, i was missing the game, was driving around like a lunatic all night. my lfc shirt must have absorbed about 7 pounds of sweat. barely even had time to get petrol. then one customer rang, a newby on the counter took down the wrong address and phone number.

i got blamed for it. when i tried to deliver it again the customer start claiming the food had been just reheated and refused to take it (despite not even tasting it). i didnt mind that but as he was leaving and i got into my car "get out of here you fucking prick!"

he then came down to the shop and how i didnt knock his teeth out ill never know. he refused to apologize and then start claiming he was a plod and that "he would do me" and "have me done". for some reason i just knew he was bluffing. i told him "i dont care what you are, you have no right to go around calling me a prick, i did nothing wrong so get stuffed"

he apologized but again started tryna act big "ill do you ill have you done". told him "listen take my fucking reg and do what you fucking like"

as suspected he wasnt a copper at all. he worked for toyota.
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #608 on: October 25, 2011, 09:34:42 am »
the norwich game, believe it or not they were favorites for that game

they were top of the league and we were utter tripe that season but we thrashed them
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Offline jaffod

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #609 on: October 25, 2011, 10:25:44 am »
Came away from that Reading game thinking 2 things. That Paletta was going to be decent and Reina was dodgy....

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #610 on: October 25, 2011, 12:15:17 pm »
won a good few bob on that leeds game.

was about 60 quid profit. felt my luck was in so bet on celtic to beat someone 4-0 with larrsson first goal. that came in too. was up about 160

sweet!
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Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #611 on: October 25, 2011, 12:34:38 pm »
Dodgy stadia to date:

Luton

Oldham

Selhurst

Southampton (The Dell) in days of yore

« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 02:34:58 pm by Rafa_La »
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #612 on: October 25, 2011, 12:52:47 pm »
Dodgy stadia to date:

Luton

Oldham


From a "visitor-friendly" point of view, you can add Southampton when they used to play at The Dell, although to be fair to them things (the view from the away section, access and facilities generally) were significantly better after they moved to St. Mary's.

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #613 on: October 25, 2011, 12:52:58 pm »
Dodgy stadia to date:

Luton

Oldham


selhurst?
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #614 on: October 25, 2011, 01:37:21 pm »
Good entries ( fi you can say that ;))

Shall add 'em later  :)
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

Offline Midget

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #615 on: October 25, 2011, 01:58:46 pm »
Didn't remember that Paletta scored for us during his brief stay here.

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #616 on: October 25, 2011, 02:54:25 pm »
Didn't remember that Paletta scored for us during his brief stay here.

Think he also scored in the 6-3 drubbing Arsenal gave us.

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #617 on: October 25, 2011, 02:55:21 pm »
Didn't remember that Paletta scored for us during his brief stay here.

Here's that one and only goal (not good quality but better than nothing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCsv9yMOQC4

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #618 on: October 25, 2011, 02:58:10 pm »
Think he also scored in the 6-3 drubbing Arsenal gave us.

Incorrect. Our three goals that night were scored by Fowler, Gerrard and Hyypia.

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #619 on: October 25, 2011, 02:59:28 pm »
Incorrect. Our three goals that night were scored by Fowler, Gerrard and Hyypia.

Apologies.

Mental note - never post something that's unsubstantiated when kriss is around to pick you up on it!

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #620 on: October 25, 2011, 03:02:15 pm »
Apologies.

Mental note - never post something that's unsubstantiated when kriss is around to pick you up on it!

Not just kriss. Anyone who, like me,  works for www.lfchistory.net ;)

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #621 on: October 25, 2011, 03:10:03 pm »
Not just kriss. Anyone who, like me,  works for www.lfchistory.net ;)

Any jobs going? I think me, HELLRAZOR and rafa_la have more than proved our credentials in this thread!

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #622 on: October 25, 2011, 03:19:32 pm »
Any jobs going? I think me, HELLRAZOR and rafa_la have more than proved our credentials in this thread!

All three of you are definitely capable of covering for/working with any of the current team ;D!

Offline Midget

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #623 on: October 25, 2011, 03:21:16 pm »
Here's that one and only goal (not good quality but better than nothing) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCsv9yMOQC4

That blurry cellphone video didn't exactly refresh my memory of the event but I guess you're right in saying it's better than nothing. I'm glad that someone recorded that landmark moment.

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #624 on: October 25, 2011, 03:25:41 pm »
Any jobs going? I think me, HELLRAZOR and rafa_la have more than proved our credentials in this thread!
All three of you are definitely capable of covering for/working with any of the current team ;D!
8)
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Offline ALANM

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #625 on: October 25, 2011, 10:56:32 pm »
Stoke played really well in that Coca Cola Cup game and we had to work hard to beat them. The Manchester City game the following season was a stroll in the park by comparison, and we then stuck 6 past them in the League the following Saturday. Now we enjoy watching them score 6!!!

The game at Luton was the 2nd of 3 successive seasons where we played them on the same weekend. The 1-0 win in 1987 and 4-1 loss in 1986, both away, have already been mentioned. October 26th memories tomorrow will feature an entertaining game at Anfield in 1985 which we won 3-2. Paul Walsh scored twice against his former club to give us a commanding half time lead. Steve Foster (he of the headband fame) scored early in the 2nd half to half the deficit before Jan Molby scored one of his trademark free kicks to restore our 2 goal advantage. Mick Harford then made it 3-2, and we had to endure a nervy end to the game before emerging with the points. 

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #626 on: October 25, 2011, 11:02:33 pm »
left out united ngog game

really wish there was a camera on me for that
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #627 on: October 26, 2011, 09:32:45 am »
Today In History
October 26th


1963 Ipswich Town (Division One) Portman Road 2-1
Jimmy Melia 8' Roger Hunt 44'
Att 16,356

1968 Newcastle United (Division One) Anfield 2-1
Alun Evans 23' Peter Thompson 85'
Att 45,323

1974 Leeds United (Division One) Anfield 1-0
Steve Heighway 73'
Att 54,996

1977 Derby County (League Cup 3erd round) Anfield 2-0
David Fairclough 72' 75'
Att 30,400

1982 Ipswich Town (Milk Cup 2ed round 2ed leg) Anfield 2-0
Ronnie Whelan 7' Mark Lawrenson 43'
Att 17,698

1985 Luton Town (Division One) Anfield 3-2
Paul Walsh 31' 35' Jan Molby 65'
Att 31,488

1988 Nottingham Forest (Division One) City Ground 1-2
Ian Rush 58'
Att 29,755

1991 Coventry City (Division One) Anfield 1-0
Ray Houghton 35'
Att 33,339

2000 Slovan Liberec (UEFA Cup 2ed round 1st leg) Anfield 1-0
Emile Heskey 87'
Att 29,662

2002 Tottenham Hotspur (Premier League) Anfield 2-1
Danny Murphy 71' Michael Owen 85'(Pen)
Att 44,084

2004 Millwall (Carling Cup 3erd Round) The New Den 3-0
Salif Diao 18' Milan Baros 70' 90'
Att 17,655

2008 Chelsea (Premier League) Stamford Bridge 1-0
Xabi Alonso 10'
Att 41,705

2011 Stoke City (Carling Cup 4th Round ) Britannia Stadium ?-?
Goals  Luis Suárez 54' 85'
Att 24,934

TRANSFERS ON THIS DAY

IN

Steve Nicol (1981)


DEBUTS ON THIS DAY

Zak Whitbread (2004)



« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 07:33:48 am by Rafa_La »
Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #628 on: October 26, 2011, 09:37:41 am »
2002 was the first and only time I’ve taken my wife to Anfield. I think her highlight was ogling Jamie Redknapp as he took a few corners (for Spurs) down near where we were sitting. Murphy scored a cracking goal, then Dean Richards equalized late on and it looked like it might be a frustrating draw until Owen bought/earnt a penalty late on which he then converted. I think we were top of the league back then.

2008 and the win against Chelsea was superb. We’d had plenty of exciting wins before that game, all those late comebacks etc but I think beating Chelsea on their own patch for the first time in years made me think for the first time that we had a real chance of winning the league that season. What an epic season that was, so disappointing that it came to nothing.

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #629 on: October 26, 2011, 09:45:30 am »
2002 was the first and only time I’ve taken my wife to Anfield. I think her highlight was ogling Jamie Redknapp as he took a few corners (for Spurs) down near where we were sitting. Murphy scored a cracking goal, then Dean Richards equalized late on and it looked like it might be a frustrating draw until Owen bought/earnt a penalty late on which he then converted. I think we were top of the league back then.

2008 and the win against Chelsea was superb. We’d had plenty of exciting wins before that game, all those late comebacks etc but I think beating Chelsea on their own patch for the first time in years made me think for the first time that we had a real chance of winning the league that season. What an epic season that was, so disappointing that it came to nothing.

top of the league after chelsea game too. i dont think they created one clear chance all game.

i remember 1991 i was in a tv shop checking the scores on teletext. a shop guy came over. "what you doing"
"mind if i check the score"
"ill tell you the score, who do you follow"
"Liverpool"
"its 3-1 to coventry"
"no way who scored"
"regis got two for them"

even though i was only 8
"your a liar"
"why"
"he joined villa in the summer"

owned by an 8 year old
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Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #630 on: October 26, 2011, 09:58:31 am »
2004 Millwall (Carling Cup 3erd Round) The New Den 3-0
Salif Diao 18' Milan Baros 70' 90'
Att 17,655

This match will probably be remembered for the despicable behaviour of some Millwall supporters and their attempts to provoke the visiting fans into some sort of retaliation with their disgusting gestures and chants about (a) Hillsborough and (b) Ken Bigley, the Liverpool-born engineer who had recently been murdered in Iraq. Millwall Chairman Theo Paphitis added to the storm by saying that he found nothing wrong with the 'sick chanting', so effectively condoning it. Our supporters showed remarkable restraint on the night considering the vile abuse they were subjected to. On the pitch, the expected under-strength team selected was disciplined enough to ignore what was happening in the stands and a rare goal from Salif Diao plus two from Milan Baros gave us a comfortable victory at a venue where apparently, according to the banner that was erected beind one goal, "Lions have Pride Not Prejudice". Yeah ? Tell that to any Liverpool supporter who had the misfortune to be at the New Den seven years ago!

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #631 on: October 26, 2011, 10:01:00 am »
2004 Millwall (Carling Cup 3erd Round) The New Den 3-0
Salif Diao 18' Milan Baros 70' 90'
Att 17,655

This match will probably be remembered for the despicable behaviour of some Millwall supporters and their attempts to provoke the visiting fans into some sort of retaliation with their disgusting gestures and chants about (a) Hillsborough and (b) Ken Bigley, the Liverpool-born engineer who had recently been murdered in Iraq. Millwall Chairman Theo Paphitis added to the storm by saying that he found nothing wrong with the 'sick chanting', so effectively condoning it. Our supporters showed remarkable restraint on the night considering the vile abuse they were subjected to. On the pitch, the expected under-strength team selected was disciplined enough to ignore what was happening in the stands and a rare goal from Salif Diao plus two from Milan Baros gave us a comfortable victory at a venue where apparently, according to the banner that was erected beind one goal, "Lions have Pride Not Prejudice". Yeah ? Tell that to any Liverpool supporter who had the misfortune to be at the New Den seven years ago!
i remember hearing about that. add to being locked in the ground for a long time after
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #632 on: October 26, 2011, 10:04:17 am »
2008 Chelsea (Premier League) Stamford Bridge 1-0
Xabi Alonso 10'
Att 41,705

It would have been a more convincing victory if Alonso's brilliant second-half free-kick had gone in instead of smacking a post and bouncing out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjcB33-_-0

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #633 on: October 26, 2011, 10:11:17 am »
1974 Leeds United (Division One) Anfield 1-0
Steve Heighway 73'
Att 54,996

Heighway, who had scored the only goal when Leeds visited Anfield towards the end of the previous season, repeated that feat and his goal took the club a point clear at the top of the First Division table.

Offline paulrazor

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #634 on: October 26, 2011, 10:12:09 am »
2008 Chelsea (Premier League) Stamford Bridge 1-0
Xabi Alonso 10'
Att 41,705

It would have been a more convincing victory if Alonso's brilliant second-half free-kick had gone in instead of smacking a post and bouncing out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdjcB33-_-0
cech didnt even move

stayed in a hotel in portrush that night. i remember i had a bad ankle injury around that time. we had dinner in the hotel that night and can remember the mrs went to the toilet to do her make up. she must have been gone 5-10 mins and i could see a table across from me laughing. they thought id just hooked up with some random bird who had fucked off and left me to pay for it. they were most disappointed when she returnd
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #635 on: October 26, 2011, 10:22:29 am »
1982 Ipswich Town (Milk Cup 2ed round 2ed leg) Anfield 2-0
Ronnie Whelan 7' Mark Lawrenson 43'
Att 17,698

Ipswich must have been sick of the sight of us at this time. We had knocked them out of the League Cup (at the semi-final stage) in the previous season as well as thumping them 4-0 at Anfield on the way to our 13th title (they were runners-up, four points behind us). Now we comfortably secured our place in the third round of the League Cup having already won the first leg 2-1 at Portman Road three weeks earlier. 

Offline Rafa_La

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #636 on: October 26, 2011, 10:30:03 am »
Apologies.

Mental note - never post something that's unsubstantiated when kriss is around to pick you up on it!

kriss is sound as a teacher.

Interesting week this one too ;) 

Nunca me bajoneé, mi conciencia estaba tranquila porque sabía cómo habían sido las cosas.
"The reason i never felt depressed is because my conscience was clear, I Knew what had really happened."
Luis Suarez
YNWA

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #637 on: October 26, 2011, 10:32:13 am »
2000 Slovan Liberec (UEFA Cup 2ed round 1st leg) Anfield 1-0
Emile Heskey 87'
Att 29,662

The first of the thirteen goals that Emile Heskey scored for Liverpool in competitive European matches. Liberec should have been put out of their misery long before Heskey scored. Numerous good chances were missed, the most notable being a Fowler penalty that Robbie blasted into the Kop.

Offline kriss

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #638 on: October 26, 2011, 11:47:37 am »
kriss is sound as a teacher.

Interesting week this one too ;) 



Thank you. I would never claim to know everything about the club's history. But I know a lot and I am learning more as each day passes, especially about the club's early years. A forum like RAWK and especially a thread like "On this day in history" can only help to increase my knowledge.

Offline Danyaals Kop

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Re: On this day in LFC History: Personal Memories
« Reply #639 on: October 26, 2011, 11:48:41 am »
Today In History
October 26th


2008 Chelsea (Premier League) Stamford Bridge 1-0
Xabi Alonso 10'
Att 41,705


That day, perfect. 8)