Author Topic: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer  (Read 129872 times)

Offline ۩ Maximus ۩

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #840 on: March 4, 2012, 04:25:35 pm »
Comolli has the ultimate say, but he has the input from many different people and especially Dalglish. What's so bad about that?

Manager should have the ultimate say. Comolli should be a glorified scout; he's getting involved too much for me, in celebrations and in footballing matters.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #841 on: March 4, 2012, 04:27:05 pm »
Manager should have the ultimate say. Comolli should be a glorified scout; he's getting involved too much for me, in celebrations and in footballing matters.
From the comments that have been made we can assume that Kenny does have final say on buying players from shortlists prepared by Comolli

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #842 on: March 4, 2012, 04:28:24 pm »
Massively. A repeat of the summer just past and the new owners will be wondering where their money is going. Quite ridiculous the amount we have spent and the players we have gained. I like Henderson myself, Enrique is a good player, and Bellamy was a bargain; Downing and Adam on the other hand don't seem to be good enough for a Top 4 team, not as first XI players. Carroll really isn't doing himself any justice, if he could show his form at Newcastle however, we would have one helluva player on our hands, unfortunately, it seems like the wrong player at the wrong time for me. He deserves time though as he is only a baby in general target man terms.

Hopefully we'll spend wisely, but the problem with the 'Comolli' situation is that it is unclear who is making the transfers, which is never good.

Our Net spend was the price of an Aguero or two thirds of the price of a Torres so don't make out we spent a fortune because quite clearly we didn't. There is a myth that United haven't spent anything because of their financial situation whilst we spent an absolute fortune when in reality United's Net spend was greater than ours.

We had to spread the money because we had holes all over the squad hopefully this season we can target the money on quality instead of quantity.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #843 on: March 4, 2012, 04:28:48 pm »
Manager should have the ultimate say. Comolli should be a glorified scout; he's getting involved too much for me, in celebrations and in footballing matters.

How do you know how much he actually gets involved though? Truth is we are all guessing, and everything stated publically by the club has said kenny has the unltimate say. We shouldn't fall in the trap of blaming all our mistakes on Comolli and any successes on Kenny.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #844 on: March 4, 2012, 04:31:17 pm »
Comolli has the ultimate say, but he has the input from many different people and especially Dalglish. What's so bad about that?

Well it presents a dilemma.

If Comolli when to Kenny with a list of Llorrente, Gomez, Carroll, Ba etc and he said 'get Carroll', is it kenny's fault for choosing the big lummox or Comolli's for putting him on the list in the first place.

Likewise Mata, downing, turan, oxo kid.  Enrique, taiwo, clichy.

The buck needs to stop somewhere and we shouldn't have the 'lesser' options on the list at all imo.

Given our recent performances in transfer windows I would much rather Comolli went to Kenny with 1 name (the best player) and give him a veto rather than a menu.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #845 on: March 4, 2012, 04:31:52 pm »
I'd say we need 5 players in the summer to be honest. 1 DM, 1 AM, 1 RW and 2 strikers.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #846 on: March 4, 2012, 04:33:24 pm »
Our Net spend was the price of an Aguero or two thirds of the price of a Torres so don't make out we spent a fortune because quite clearly we didn't. There is a myth that United haven't spent anything because of their financial situation whilst we spent an absolute fortune when in reality United's Net spend was greater than ours.

We had to spread the money because we had holes all over the squad hopefully this season we can target the money on quality instead of quantity.
Al we didn't hole up the squad, we replaced players for others in the same positions. Kenny clearly was putting his stamp on the squad.

Raul, Aquilani, Insua, Cole, and Soto replaced by Henderson, Adam, Downing, Coates and Enrique.

Why are you looking past this season?

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #847 on: March 4, 2012, 04:35:30 pm »
From the comments that have been made we can assume that Kenny does have final say on buying players from shortlists prepared by Comolli

I'm not so sure.  That's not how the American model works in the NFL.  The GM is the person who decides which players to draft and the Head Coach (equivalent of the manager) works with them.  He obviously has some say in this but the GM is the one responsible for talent recruitment

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #848 on: March 4, 2012, 04:36:02 pm »
How do you know how much he actually gets involved though? Truth is we are all guessing, and everything stated publically by the club has said kenny has the unltimate say. We shouldn't fall in the trap of blaming all our mistakes on Comolli and any successes on Kenny.

I highly doubt this 'buy British' agenda comes from Comolli.  It started under OFC so its possible some player influence is a factor, but I reckon its Kenny's agenda.

It's ok to chalk some blame up to Kenny imo.  I still love the man and I still want him to manage us for many years.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #849 on: March 4, 2012, 04:36:42 pm »
Manager should have the ultimate say. Comolli should be a glorified scout; he's getting involved too much for me, in celebrations and in footballing matters.

Aren't we trying to move away from that English type thinking?

Managers time at clubs can be very short and giving them total control is a short to mid term approach unless we end up in a Wenger/Baconface situation. The only way to plan long term to for the club itself to have a say in player recruitment, development, style etc. That way when managers come and go you don't have to scrap everything, sell everyone and start all over again. That's very expensive and with FFP coming in it just isn't advisible. Of course this goes against how the game has been played in England but that doesn't mean its wrong!

For me a DOF should have the ultimate say and a DOF should be judge over a long period(10 years or so). The ideal situation is to get a DOF and Head Coach who think the same and work well together. Spurs obv didn't have that with Comolli and Jol. Although Arnesen and Jol seemed to work together. Kenny and Damien may work very well together. We don't know as of course the standard line whilst both are at the club will be the relationship is working well. If and when that relationship ends mud maybe thrown and light shone and of course being English the tendancy will be to blame the DOF because we still don't trust that model.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #850 on: March 4, 2012, 04:37:56 pm »
We need to be patient and build for the long term.

We have a great man and manager running team affairs, with a top class assistant.

We also have good owners.

The nucleus of our team is still very good. I would like to see a couple of younger players break through, and 2 quality additions. Otherwise, I am happy with how things are going and I think it's essential the club is given the space by supporters to build for the long term. It's the only way we will succeed.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #851 on: March 4, 2012, 04:38:10 pm »
Our Net spend was the price of an Aguero or two thirds of the price of a Torres so don't make out we spent a fortune because quite clearly we didn't. There is a myth that United haven't spent anything because of their financial situation whilst we spent an absolute fortune when in reality United's Net spend was greater than ours.

We had to spread the money because we had holes all over the squad hopefully this season we can target the money on quality instead of quantity.

United just got lucky with Ronaldo and the 70 million they received skewed the figures.  It makes me sick to think we could have gotten him first if Houllier has just given him an extra few grand in wages - we didn't because it would have upset 'les gems' at the time Pongolle and Le Tallec.  What might have been...

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #852 on: March 4, 2012, 04:38:14 pm »
And in the meantime Fulham are romping away every week with Pogrebnyak picked up on a free, while we don't know how to get the minimum out of Carroll.

Comolli needs to work harder and stop making comments in public like that.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #853 on: March 4, 2012, 04:41:37 pm »
I haven't liked Comolli's involvement from the start.  Kenny has a track record of identifying class players - Barnes, Beardsley, Damien Duff when he was 16 at Blackburn.  He built the title winning side at Blackburn.  All of a sudden, the buys aren't looking too good any more.  I obviously can't prove that it was Comolli's fault but you can look at the track record of both before this and I suspect that it is - especially the Downing signing.  Kenny definitely wanted Adam.  Don't know about Carroll.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #854 on: March 4, 2012, 04:41:47 pm »
Well it presents a dilemma.

If Comolli when to Kenny with a list of Llorrente, Gomez, Carroll, Ba etc and he said 'get Carroll', is it kenny's fault for choosing the big lummox or Comolli's for putting him on the list in the first place.

Likewise Mata, downing, turan, oxo kid.  Enrique, taiwo, clichy.

The buck needs to stop somewhere and we shouldn't have the 'lesser' options on the list at all imo.

Given our recent performances in transfer windows I would much rather Comolli went to Kenny with 1 name (the best player) and give him a veto rather than a menu.
Its been a collective screw up. to be honest i don't believe that Comolli had Carroll as a serious option. Dalglish wanted a target man and he was the only one we could get at the time. Downing to me seemed like a good buy at the time and i don't think he has been as bad as many has made out if we had more clinical forwards he would ahve had a fair few assists. Henderson is doing ok.. just ok nothing special not bad either its the fee that that's caused the agrro..funny how i hear NOBODY mention Lukaku at Chelsea as a waste the kids done bugger all and cos 18m!I dont think our current signings are the real issue we need that extra touch of class-that last ingredient to link or squad together and BOOM.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #855 on: March 4, 2012, 04:42:44 pm »
We need to be patient and build for the long term.

We have a great man and manager running team affairs, with a top class assistant.

We also have good owners.

The nucleus of our team is still very good. I would like to see a couple of younger players break through, and 2 quality additions. Otherwise, I am happy with how things are going and I think it's essential the club is given the space by supporters to build for the long term. It's the only way we will succeed.

Vinay - you are right on Comolli. He puts himself forward too much and is a publicity hog. The club need to reign him in a bit.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #856 on: March 4, 2012, 04:42:45 pm »
I haven't liked Comolli's involvement from the start.  Kenny has a track record of identifying class players - Barnes, Beardsley, Damien Duff when he was 16 at Blackburn.  He built the title winning side at Blackburn.  All of a sudden, the buys aren't looking too good any more.  I obviously can't prove that it was Comolli's fault but you can look at the track record of both before this and I suspect that it is - especially the Downing signing.  Kenny definitely wanted Adam.  Don't know about Carroll.

He brought really class players to Newcastle & Celtic didn't he  :P
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #857 on: March 4, 2012, 04:43:23 pm »
I'd say we need 5 players in the summer to be honest. 1 DM, 1 AM, 1 RW and 2 strikers.

Shelvey has the potential to be a pretty good all-round midfielder though. This is the thing. All the soundbites initially were that this would be a long-term thing.


The 'problem' is that we weren't in the position to revolve. That's why we had the massive summer overhaul. I don't think it gets mentioned enough just quite how radical a change our squad underwent. It's not just the players we brought in - 9 (although 8 really given Doni really doesn't do much). It's not the amount of players we got out of the club (christ knows what that number is. 12+). It's also the younger players who now regularly make up part of the match day squad, and are a permanent part of the first team squad. Spearing and Kelly are first team players now. Flanagan, Shelvey and Robinson not far off. You're not surprised if they're on the bench, or starting in the cup. There's basically been a carousel of close to 30 players come in and going out since FSG/Comolli/Kenny's first transfer window.

The issue is that everything that came out from FSG and Comolli spoke of long-term evolution with a young squad. The problem was that we needed a revolution to put that young squad in place.

I highly doubt this 'buy British' agenda comes from Comolli.  It started under OFC

Not quite.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #858 on: March 4, 2012, 04:43:33 pm »
He brought really class players to Newcastle & Celtic didn't he  :P

He was given no money at NewCastle and he wasn't actually at Celtic for very long, was he?  He didn't do too bad while he was there.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #859 on: March 4, 2012, 04:49:13 pm »
The thing is that with the Buy British policy being implemented in 2011 summer window,it is now time to add some European flair to the British spine.We could buy 2 top players and revolutionize the squad.That matchwinner quality is what we lack.2-3 such players have to be spotted.Enough of the squad player business.We have a good squad.But the problem is that most players in our eleven as well as in the squad are just good.Not capable of winning us a match singlehandedly.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #860 on: March 4, 2012, 04:51:31 pm »
And in the meantime Fulham are romping away every week with Pogrebnyak picked up on a free, while we don't know how to get the minimum out of Carroll.

Comolli needs to work harder and stop making comments in public like that.

I thought they signed him for 10 million?

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #861 on: March 4, 2012, 04:53:10 pm »
Its been a collective screw up. to be honest i don't believe that Comolli had Carroll as a serious option. Dalglish wanted a target man and he was the only one we could get at the time. Downing to me seemed like a good buy at the time and i don't think he has been as bad as many has made out if we had more clinical forwards he would ahve had a fair few assists. Henderson is doing ok.. just ok nothing special not bad either its the fee that that's caused the agrro..funny how i hear NOBODY mention Lukaku at Chelsea as a waste the kids done bugger all and cos 18m!I dont think our current signings are the real issue we need that extra touch of class-that last ingredient to link or squad together and BOOM.

I'd have Lukaku here tomorrow.  It's hard for any player to perform at the cesspit of a club.  Torres and Meireles would improve our squad also since we utterly failed to replace them with like players.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #862 on: March 4, 2012, 04:53:15 pm »
I agree we have enough british players here now, whether top notch or average.  The next 3 all have to be technically far superior to what we have, if you play 4231 then I feel with Gerrard & Lucas in the 2 and Suarez 1 of the 4, then the 3 players needed have to be all final 3rd players. This leaves the Downings/Carrols etc on the bench.

I was always suprised when Adebayor went on loan to Spurs, this may shock a few but maybe ask for Torres on loan for 1 season with  a buy option.
« Last Edit: March 4, 2012, 05:03:29 pm by paulred71 »

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #863 on: March 4, 2012, 04:57:40 pm »
Al we didn't hole up the squad, we replaced players for others in the same positions. Kenny clearly was putting his stamp on the squad.

Raul, Aquilani, Insua, Cole, and Soto replaced by Henderson, Adam, Downing, Coates and Enrique.

   
Apparently we forgot about the strikers though.

If you think you can manage to handle a full PL season with 2, TWO serious strikers, not half midfield sort of players, I am talking bullet proof strikers.. than you seriously cannot blame anybody else than yourself and  I cannot hear the whining anymore that we "deserved" more out of our good games we played....

Two strikers and I wonder what Comolli was thinking as we signed at the same time a center back being fully aware that he won´t get too much games anyway as Carra will be still around so why not going for a young and talented striker instead?

Newcastle has 6 strikers in their squad and I cannot think of ONE top club in europe with the ambition to make it top 4 relying on only two strikers for a season and one of them having to play a copa for the whole summer.

I don´t have to understand everything but our missing quality in attack was as preticable as the outcome of the Carra vs van Persie duel of saturday.

 
« Last Edit: March 4, 2012, 05:01:21 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #864 on: March 4, 2012, 05:00:46 pm »
I'd have Lukaku here tomorrow.  It's hard for any player to perform at the cesspit of a club.  Torres and Meireles would improve our squad also since we utterly failed to replace them with like players.

Yeah i agree .My point was that we *(Liverpool fans) have a habit of moaning about our players and the media will happily back us up. Lukaku hasn't had a chance and so i being given a break. No one asks why he hasn't had a chance. it could be that he's not good enough. Henderson has been given a chance which says to me he is good enough, both fees are similar yet Henderson is a waste of money? Torres and Meireles would improve our squad says alot really......
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #865 on: March 4, 2012, 05:04:27 pm »
   
Apparently we forgot about the strikers though.

If you think you can manage to handle a full PL season with 2, TWO serious strikers, not half midfield sort of players, I am talking bullet proof strikers.. than you seriously cannot blame anybody else than yourself and  I cannot hear the whining anymore that we "deserved" more out of our good games we played.... Two strikers and I wonder what Comolli was thinking as we signed at the same time a center back being fully aware that he won´t get too much games anyway as Carra will be still around so why not going for a young and talented striker instead?

Newcastle has 6 strikers in their squad and I cannot think of ONE top club in europe with the ambition to make it top 4 relying on only two strikers for a season and one of them having to play a copa for the whole summer.

I don´t have to understand everything but our missing quality in attack was as preticable as the outcome of the Carra vs van Persie duel of saturday.

 

Agree with the gist of what your saying, but do you not count Craig Douglas Bellamy as a striker? We also contribute very few goals from midfield in the way Garcia, Beneyoun, a younger Gerrard, Merelies etc have done over recent years. Its not just our forwards who are not prolific, its the entire front 5.
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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #866 on: March 4, 2012, 05:05:29 pm »
Since new owners took over our net spend was in fact ZERO.
When you take into account the sales (Torres, Ngog, Babel, Meirales . . . . . . . . .) and savings on salary of overpaids like Torres, Ngog, Babel, Jovanovic, Cole, Paulsen and the sales of an incredibly large squad (we got rid of 25 players) we actually were up a few million in this period, that includes salary savings for the entire current season. The players brought in are not on hight salaries.
The owners did good business but it did not greatly improved the squad as Adam, Downing, Carroll, Henderson etc. are not really giving us all we expected. I admit we are marginally better. However we cleary need a net spend of 100Mil or so (including giving extra large salaries to some players to attract them) if we are to get somewhere. I doubt the owners will do that. We'll be likely stuck in this reasonable mediocrity until we get some gems like Bale etc.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #867 on: March 4, 2012, 05:08:37 pm »
Not sure I would trust Comolli with another large transfer kitty if I were FSG. I'm sure by now they've become a lot more knowledgeable by watching and talking to a lot of people in the sport and business. It has to be evident to them that we have massively overpaid for British talent.

I think those 1 or 2 "adjustments" might be considerable in size to be honest. 

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #868 on: March 4, 2012, 05:10:04 pm »
We do not have a nucleus of a good side. Defensively- yes. Offensively- NO. There are only 2 players in the current squad who are first team players for the 6 positions in midfield and upfront. Gerrard (who is injury prone and getting older) and Suarez. The rest are average squad players who should not be starting every game. We also do not have anyone in the reserves/youth team who is a Gerrard or Fowler or Owen who can make the breakthrough into the first team for the next 2-3 years (its all potential - but no certainties).

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #869 on: March 4, 2012, 05:10:12 pm »
And in the meantime Fulham are romping away every week with Pogrebnyak picked up on a free, while we don't know how to get the minimum out of Carroll.

Comolli needs to work harder and stop making comments in public like that.

Nope Fulham have him on loan with an option to buy, and comments like this are irrelevant really. Do you honestly believe he would be scoring if we were playing him? He would catch the same disease as the rest of our players and be unable to put the ball in the back of the net. Either that or we wouldn't play to his strengths.

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #870 on: March 4, 2012, 05:14:58 pm »
Agree with the gist of what your saying, but do you not count [Dear bellend, please insert name of Craig Bellamy here.] as a striker? We also contribute very few goals from midfield in the way Garcia, Beneyoun, a younger Gerrard, Merelies etc have done over recent years. Its not just our forwards who are not prolific, its the entire front 5.

The point what I am trying to make is the same I was banging on in summer. It´s just very risky, naive or whatever you wanna call it to rely on your best striker without any back up.

ManU are playing awful in open play but they still win because of individual class of Rooney, Chicharito or whatever they call him and Berbatov and Wellbeck coming through.

I didn´t expect four or five strikers but at least someone alongside CArroll if Suarez is injured or banned or just tired from the Copa was to be expected, HAD TO BE expected if the goal was making it 4th. I cannot understand how someone like Comolli possibly can oversee this.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline andy in warrington

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #871 on: March 4, 2012, 05:15:39 pm »
Surely Dalglish chooses he players to sign, and Comolli goes and completes the transfers. I cannot believe for a minute Dalglish would work with players he had no input in signing.

Offline steve10

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #872 on: March 4, 2012, 05:17:25 pm »
Dalglish has clearly stated that the ultimate decision in signing a player is down to him and nobody else. Stop blaming Comolli.

Offline andy in warrington

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #873 on: March 4, 2012, 05:17:34 pm »
He brought really class players to Newcastle & Celtic didn't he  :P

Rafael Scheidt.

Offline Danny_

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #874 on: March 4, 2012, 05:18:11 pm »
Dalglish has clearly stated that the ultimate decision in signing a player is down to him and nobody else. Stop blaming Comolli.

I don't recall him ever stating that actually

Offline eirwen

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #875 on: March 4, 2012, 05:18:45 pm »
It has to be Kenny who made the signings.

I don't believe Comolli would want that many British players if it's down to him.

Offline istvan kosma

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #876 on: March 4, 2012, 05:20:01 pm »
He brought really class players to Newcastle & Celtic didn't he  :P

ermm solano, Hamann were shite lad weren't they? also duncan ferguson? though he flopped I wouldn't of said he was gash like!!...
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #877 on: March 4, 2012, 05:20:30 pm »
Surely Dalglish chooses he players to sign, and Comolli goes and completes the transfers. I cannot believe for a minute Dalglish would work with players he had no input in signing.

I am pretty sure that Comolli is mainly responsible for our tranfers last summer, this summer might be different but Kenny was still in his first transfer summer after he came in and the way the owners set up the club doesn´t look like Kenny being inolved in EVERY transfer just as Rafa was. Besides Kenny wasn´t involved in professional football for quite a while and it takes some time to get back being on top of all the information on which playes are available at a given point in time.

But this may change...
« Last Edit: March 4, 2012, 05:22:28 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Danny_

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #878 on: March 4, 2012, 05:20:50 pm »
It has to be Kenny who made the signings.

I don't believe Comolli would want that many British players if it's down to him.

The Buy British policy was probably down to the rule changes and the fact that we didn't have that many British players in the side after the Rafa era (with Gerrard and Carragher but getting on). 

Offline Danny_

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Re: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer
« Reply #879 on: March 4, 2012, 05:21:45 pm »
Lets not forget that Roy didn't want Joe Cole or so he said.  So, who made the decision on that? Clearly, it wasn't the manager.  So, people saying that 'Kenny has to have the final say' are making an assumption.