Topic: The Leaving of Liverpool, or the Colour of Money

[Bob Kurac]

By John Williams, editor of The Mersey Mouth

If the rumours are true then Steven Gerrard will soon be leaving Liverpool F.C. for Chelsea football club.  To many people this will be perceived as a betrayal of the club and the fans, but I suspect it will prove in the main to be a betrayal of Steven Gerrard. 

He says he wants to join a club that will give him the honours he craves.  So why is he not going to Real Madrid or Barcelona or Arsenal?  Possibly because even they would baulk at making the kind of financial investment that Roman Abramovitch can afford.

No, realistically it has to be the money, because to leave the most honoured football club in English history for the almost trophy free zone that is Chelsea and then claim the move is being made in a bid for glory is about as logical as Sir Ernest Marples arguing that the motorways were built so that people experience the beauty of the countryside.  When Ernie built the M1 great swathes of the English countryside were forever lost while Marples made millions.

Okay, so he’s gone for the money, but in a world where the once deadly sins of Envy and Greed are now held up as virtues is that a crime?  No, but it is possibly an impulsive and catastrophic mistake; a surrender to temporal values that will not countenance the notion that human beings can ever be contented.  The idea that we can be happy with our lot is heresy to the feverish propagators of dis-ease and dis-content.  A man can buy a new car on Monday and by Wednesday he is seeing it rubbished in an advertisement for another car; another dishwasher; another washing powder ad infinitum.

You see Steven, a man once said,
   
“What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet suffer the loss of his soul?”

Soul?  What are you Williams, a religious nut!

No.  It’s the only word I can find to describe that particular spirit that defines Merseysiders and their irrational pride in belonging to an area that in its short history has been blitzed to near oblivion; almost destroyed by Thatcherism, and which has of late become the target of a nation wide hate campaign that borders on racialism. 
   
As I write this I am looking at a photograph, taken at Anfield, of Steven Gerrard proudly holding his beautiful baby daughter aloft as if she were the World cup itself.  What will you tell her Steven if she ever asks what she was doing in that citadel of those strange northern people whose accent and dialect is so distinct that it ceases to exist at the very borders of Liverpool?  For instance, where your old home of Huyton meets the ancient English market town of Prescot. 

Will she ever understand the sense of belonging to a people who feel almost as alien to their national culture as any Basque or Catalan? 

We here have survived many major tragedies such as the devastation of the Luftwaffe, and we have endured many minor losses, like, for instance, the loss of Kevin Keegan.  What hasn’t killed us has made us stronger. 

If you go we will miss you Steven, but know this, you will miss us more.  You will privately mourn the loss of the love of you fellow Scousers, because many will revile you and the duration of that hatred will last for many a season.  You see, what was meant to be the Spring of our recovery as a football team will be seen to have been blighted by that very green shoot that gave us so much hope during the long winter we have all endured since Hillsborough.

Speaking for myself, I will always marvel at the irony of a self proclaimed boyhood supporter of L.F.C voluntarily leaving the club, when Robbie Fowler, a boyhood supporter of Everton had to be levered out.

If you mix red and blue you get purple, the colour of the Roman emperors.  Steven, you could be our Caesar.  Don’t bend the knee to a pretend Tsar who has won no glory and will treat you as a mere bauble, a plaything. 


As another Stevens put it,
   
“Oh baby baby it’s a wild world…
But if you wanna leave, take good care
I hope you have a lot of nice things to wear
But then a lot of nice things turn bad out there”

Take care our kid. 

© John Williams 2004
http://www.merseymouth.com
   

   
   
   

[Spartacus.]

Thats very like how I see it!

If he goes so be it, we can move on - he will lose a hell of a lot more than us IMO.

[Paul Tomkins]

Top stuff.

Any chance I can get away with pretending I wrote it?   

[Ale-lujah! Ale-lujah!]

Superb piece and balanced view John. Wish I could be as magnanimous as your goodself. Right now I wouldn't pisss on the bastaard if he was on fire.

[Bob Kurac]

Superb piece and balanced view John. Wish I could be as magnanimous as your goodself. Right now I wouldn't pisss on the bastaard if he was on fire.

good to see you, mr ale ...

[Flight]

/applaud

Tremendous article; best read in a long time and spot on.

Thankyou.

[Ale-lujah! Ale-lujah!]

And you mate. Distressing, if also exciting, times. I take it you got your builder sorted! Hope all is well in that street?

[Woodbury]

Spot on John!   

I just want this whole situation to get sorted out as soon as possible.  My mind must be put at ease!!

[simoooooooo]

no such word as racialism. rascism i believe is the word he was thinking of .the player id include is joe cole ,with duff or parker .that would transform our weakest area .it will soon pass ,the stevie era 

[Reds-Faithful]

Good post. It really puts into perspective how football is being spoilt by money.

[Forbsie]

Good post and spot on

[redger]

If he leaves he will be walking alone,and with his leaving will be another nail in football's coffin thanks to the Russian,money can't buy you love but it can certainally turn your head and make you walk away(it seems).

You have summed it up spot on,we will move on and up, and he will forever be remembered as a Judas.

[Squillary]

I've logged on for the first time today to find out what's going on with the lad, so I was interested to read your piece. Nicely written, and would make a convincing argument to put to him if it wasn't for the fact that selfishness and self-pity seeps from every pore, I'm afraid to say.

The first clue is the mention of Real Madrid or Barcelona for success. Why? Did either win anything this year? You might say those two were further away from winning anything than us! The unmentionable team is United of course, but in a supposedly balanced piece you can't bring yourself to name them.

And so you conclude: money. Like the money Monaco or Porto (or we) don't have that got them success, you mean? They won this year, with their current target being to dismantle and flog every successful component of those teams. Or is it that money that Rafa, despite his success this year, moved to find with us? Have it whichever way you want, but you can't have it both ways.

So you resort to the "Liverpool spirit" line. It was being fed up of that falsely self-aggrandising rubbish that made me leave in the first place! If you think you're hard done by at home try Birmingham, where I'm having to hang out, for Thatcherite destruction, wartime blitz or racist castigation. There's no monopoly in Liverpool, that's for sure!

In that context, your quote of “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet suffer the loss of his soul?” applies just as well the other way around - gains the world by staying in his Liverpool roots, but loses his soul by not fulfilling his talent and ambition as he deserves!

Listen, if it was anyone other than a homegrown lad you wouldn't give it a second thought. Should Zidane have stayed with his hometown club? George Weah? Maradona? The fact that we have a history is the clue. It's history! The miracle is that the lad's stayed as long as he has, when the club's done nothing to warrant his loyalty up to yet (aside from the accident of his own birth).

The players and the club let him down last year - we all know that. He played like a giant of the old days, while the rest played like they were as old as the giants of the old days. If he stays he may or may not win the odd bauble with us, but he's looked around to see the lie of the land and decided that he'll join a club that he doesn't have to personally drag up by its bootstraps. The money just comes with the territory.

Good luck to him, I say. I'd rather one homegrown lad seeing decent success away than a whole pack of 'em seeing nowt at home.

And if we get a shed load of money, let's hope we can rebuild a once great club and make it the kind of place he wants to return to when he's 28 or so - if we're grown up enough to accept him back, that is. There's nothing worse than a bitter and twisted support, directing their misplaced anger at their only success, when we've actually been let down by the same players and board that did the dirty on him.

He's lucky - he can ply his trade elsewhere in the meantime, while we're stuck with the club embarrassing us for a few more years yet, until they get it right. That's still no reason to begrudge him his just rewards in the intervening period.

[guest]

spot on. at last were hitting the nail on the head, you see, this episode is telling us what ive known for a long time now, this board are not  my cup of tea, dont give me please he has put millions into the club,proove it. and loyalty, forgotten hilsborough justice campain, the player can make his own choice, i wish we would make ours.

[Guz-kop]

Thats very like how I see it!

If he goes so be it, we can move on - he will lose a hell of a lot more than us IMO.

Maybe the case long term but doesn't help at the moment, least not for me. I'm only young and have only experienced a fraction of the feelings and memories following the reds that most on here have. Does it affect my views? Possibly. In my [short] time supporting the club, I've had 2 idols like virtually every young Liverpudlian. Robbie Fowler and Steven Gerrard. Both fill my walls with pictures and posters. I felt lonely and empty when Fowler left, my idol, my GOD had left. But there was a sense of sympathy. It felt like we had pushed him out of the door, like we didn't want him anymore. It's different with Gerrard. Our captain, fearless leader and inspiration maybe but not anymore it seems? The dazzling lights and £££ of London beckons. All I can hear is a whisper from a lad dressed in red carrying his daughter (who is too draped in red) around the ground - "you're not good enough for me" he says. Obviously, it's not that blunt, I know that but it doesn't stop me thinking like that. Seeing Gerrard in Blue would make me feel cheated, betrayed, trampled on. The silence from Gerrard makes me feel worthless. After all, I worship the ground he walks on, I hang onto every word he utters and know I get the feeling he doesn't care for us anymore, or he doesn't want us anymore. I feel sick and this is despite nothing but speculation being offered to those who help pay his 60k a week at Anfield.

When Fowler went to Leeds (and now Man City), my love for him never stuttered. I cheer his every goal and cringe everytime I hear criticism or abuse hurled at him. On top of my shelf, at the highest spot in my room I have a ~30cm plastic model of Fowler in a red shirt, ball at his feet. I've draped a mini scarf around it and etched the word 'GOD' into the base. I even have a small pic of him in my wallet. Call it sad, idol hero worship, unhealthy, whatever, but I do it. I hold Steven Gerrard in the same respect. Just his name breaths new life into me and watching him play gives me an sense of joy, passion and pride that I certainly can't express into words. IF he moves this summer in the conditions and circumstances that seems likely, as I said above I will feel robbed and cheated by one of our own. Life will go on, Liverpool Football Club will go on and thousands of other kids will find new heroes in red worship but there certainly won't be any shrines in my room or pictures in my wallet. If I can't trust Steven Gerrard, who can I trust? In this world of money dictating football, who's words can I take seriously? In 5 years time SG may look back and regret the decision, he may not, but at the moment if he left we would lose one of the best young midfielders in the world and I personally would lose a lot of faith in footballers and football in general.

Seeing Gerrard in blue is a sick and horrible thought. Come on Stevie, don't be fucking stupid.

[Shannonbell]

The first clue is the mention of Real Madrid or Barcelona for success. Why? Did either win anything this year? You might say those two were further away from winning anything than us! The unmentionable team is United of course, but in a supposedly balanced piece you can't bring yourself to name them.

He mentioned Arsenal too Hillary, but you are too balanced to mention that!

[Ale-lujah! Ale-lujah!]

Squillary - you present a convincing argument that would hold water in many situations where self pity and mawkishness were the relevant grievances.

That is not the issue here, however.

What's sticking in the craw and generating so much disgust for the instigator of that disgust are the lies, deceit and downright hypocrisy that have accompanied this particular Liverpudlian's desire for fulfillment elsewhere.

Not 4 weeks ago Gerrard was citing the forthcoming 3 months as vital for the club so we could show improvement next season. Scarcely 6 months ago he was publically committing his entire future to the club of his heritage. His eulogies for the club and its fans marked him as the keeper of the red scouse flame.

I could go on.

In the eyes of those who idolised him Steven Gerrard's performances this past 4 months were the embodiment of the spirit of this club from Elisha Scott, through Shanks and all the other immortals to the present day.

As we now know so distressingly his utterances were the words of a weasel. His performances were for self grandiosement alone. The blood redness of his shirt was but a sham.

Betrayal is a strong word. Treachery is another. When they both come laden with the roubles of some obscene Russian pimp borne on the callous exploitation and, no doubt, human suffering of a hundred million peasant Russians it represents arguably the most unpalatable and sickening unpalatable episode I've ever had the misfortune to witness in the sporting world.

John Williams article was simply a thing of beauty by a real talent of this peerless city

[Cardie]

The first clue is the mention of Real Madrid or Barcelona for success. Why? Did either win anything this year?

Irrelevant since both have won major trophies in the last 10 years, barring an FA Cup you have to go back to 1953 for the last time Chelsea won anything.

Madrid and Barcelona have a history, a heritage, they are renowned big succesful clubs. Speak to many people in the world and bring up the name Chelsea and the only connection they will have is that some mega rich Russian gimp bought them. Ask the same question of Madrid or Barcelona and watch their eyes light up.

[Timbo's Goals]

Superb John

[Paul Tillett]

Having read this and some previous articles of yours I found your writing of someone informed and obviously passionate but, with all respect, incredibly biased and blinkered.

Are you suggesting that Gerard should really stay at Liverpool and that if he moves basically it´s wrong.....let´s be honest, the only acceptable scenario for you is that Gerard stays - born and bred in Liverpool so he must stay there all his life - if he goes he´s obviously a traitor!

There´s a concept nowadays called freedom of movement, have new experiences, personal development, and yes, wow betide, earn more money!!!!  People from all walks of life do this all the time.

You are quite write that Liverpool are a team which was once the most powerful team in europe but this is in the past for the moment, things change, new powers emerge and fall.  I have noticed your dismall of Chelsea in previous articles as also rans, no tradition, no real fans etc... Do you really believe that? Or is it because the team is based in the "wrong" part of the country?

I believe Steven Gerard has been very patient with Liverpool  - he could have gone 2 seasons ago but he stayed - not the traits of a "greedy person" I would suggest.  Why go to Chelsea? Probably because they are building a young, exciting team that is totally commited to one thing - becoming the most powerful team in the world (whether they achieve that remains to be seen), because, the backbone of the team is basically what is becoming an important part of the England team, because some of these players are probably becoming his friends, because he will train and play every day with many world class players, because he and his family can now live a different, new and probably exciting experience in a differnt part of the country, and yes earn a lot more money (shock horror!) (if you were offered a job that pays you double or triple your wages would you stay where you are?!).

Why isn´t he off to Barcelona, Real Madrid or Milan etc... - maybe because he prefers to stay in England and he doesn´t want to uproot his family too much - or maybe he sees Chelsea as the best bet to win things even taking the mentioned teams into account......

You have mentioned in previous articles that there is no level playing field with the buying power that Chelsea now have - I´m really sorry, but since the 50´s teams the Italian and Spanish teams have had similar buying power (in their day) and could lure almost any player they wanted to them - these teams are now looked upon as great teams, legendry teams - I don´t here any one complaining about the lack of level playing field then or them "buying" trophys!  (even Liverpool, one could argue, were once in aposition where they had advantages over other teams and could get the players they wanted.

I imagine you have an at least reasonable knowledge of football and the history of Liverpool - when Liverpool were at their height did they sometimes sign players from other parts of the country or diffrent countries, offering them higher wages and the possibility of winning serious honours? In more recent times have Liverpool signed players from other countries offering them higher wages?  Do you not see that if you apply your logic to these players that in your book they would be traitors to themselves (or their homeland)?  Are you saying that everyone must stay where they are or they are in some way "letting themselves down"?  The world is changing (thank god!) and people now realise that the world is a big place and the need to explore and possibly better yourself is NOT to be considered as a crime.

[Squillary]

He mentioned Arsenal too Hillary, but you are too balanced to mention that!

Much as I hate to waste my breath...

The comparison was with teams who had won something. Arsenal were a given. Ignoring Boro's LC win (and apparently Chelsea won an Asia Cup or summat against Brum, Toons and China at the beginning of the year) the only team to win a decent cup were United, even if it did turn out a bit worthless, being against Millwall. Barcelona and Real won nothing and look like they're going to win nothing, the way they're going.

If you hadn't been so keen to miss my point you wouldn't have bothered replying (and, I guess, neither would I).

[Cardie1]

Why isn´t he off to Barcelona, Real Madrid or Milan etc... - maybe because he prefers to stay in England and he doesn´t want to uproot his family too much - or maybe he sees Chelsea as the best bet to win things even taking the mentioned teams into account......

LOL, yeah, he didn't want to join the likes of Milan because he has more chance of success at the whore house Stamford Bridge.

Of course the truth could be that Chelsea are the only ones willing to offer 125k a week....oh I'm sorry, didn't you realise this move was all about the money. I assumed you hadn't deluded yourself that Chelsea were a big club.

[Maggie May]

Excellent post.  Like most people I'm keen to get my hands on as much money as I can, but my self respect is not and never will be for sale.  And I've never betrayed anyone to earn more (or indeed any) cash.  If you tread on people's dreams you really are a 24 carat shithouse.

[Spartacus.]

So when Liverpool were at their height a long time ago, using their power, influence and money to bring players to Anfield you would consider Anfield as a whore house then?

I would answer this but then the fact that you are comparing the two clubs its just laughable and not even worthy of the bother.

[hoonin]

So when Liverpool were at their height a long time ago, using their power, influence and money to bring players to Anfield you would consider Anfield as a whore house then?

I think you are missing the point of many peoples anger and disappointment at what they think is about to happen. Its not really anything to do with Chelsea, though they should be the centre of debate across the entire footballing landscape as to the pros and cons of what is happening there right now.

This whole saga is leaving a nasty taste in the mouth due to the very recent comments from the main actor in this whole play. It was not 6 months ago that Gerrard was declaring his committment to the club and professing how happy he was to sign a contract extention, even imploring Michael Owen to sign up too.

The stunning silence from Gerrard in the last few days seems to be a telling sign of what is perhaps to come?

[Squillary]

Squillary - you present a convincing argument that would hold water in many situations where self pity and mawkishness were the relevant grievances.

That is not the issue here, however.

Hi mate.
If the case is as you profess, why is every paragraph you've written equally dripping in terms more usually seen from a lover spurned? Disgust, lies, deceit, sticking in the craw, downright hypocrisy, history, eulogies, weasel words, sham, betrayal, treachery, sickening, unpalatable...

I could go on as well, but what's the point? We'll all be upset, but shouldn't we be more upset to see a genuine world talent stifled from fulfilling his potential? The answer to that might depend on whether you're a supporter of LFC or Liverpool itself.

Perhaps my decision to leave to better myself reveals why I take the approach that I do (and I'm being presumptuous to assume your location - sorry if I'm being condescending here).

When they both come laden with the roubles of some obscene Russian pimp borne on the callous exploitation and, no doubt, human suffering of a hundred million peasant Russians...

Don't know too much about it, but it's more true to blame the bankruptcy of the Yeltsin regime (and the country as a result) that forced them to accept a pittance from some likely lads so they wouldn't have to continue to mis-manage those previously nationalised industries. Also, don't get too excited about the charges against Khodorkovsky translating into something similar for Abramovich - again AIUI the former are as much related to his active political campaigning against Putin as they are for any fraud. The sum total of the accusations against Abramovich total £20million and aren't of the same scale, as he hasn't criticised the current Russian leadership (though he's still trying to get well away, just in case).

John Williams article was simply a thing of beauty by a real talent of this peerless city

Indeed it was, and I said so at the start. The fact that I dispute the premise of the article takes nothing away from the fact that it was lovingly crafted! A welcome change from some of the old tosh I read! 

There was one thing I missed out from my earlier post, though:

Will she ever understand the sense of belonging to a people who feel almost as alien to their national culture as any Basque or Catalan?

Some might suggest he'd be doing her a service, rather than depriving her of what sounds very much like an inferiority complex! Is that what you guys think? I'd steer clear of that parochial bubble if I were you...

[Cardie]

I think you are missing the point of many peoples anger and disappointment at what they think is about to happen. Its not really anything to do with Chelsea

Sod that, the day Abamovich is either dragged kicking and screaming back to Russia and made to pay for all the dodgy dealings he's been a part of or get's bored and decides the US is the place to be and so stops bankrolling Chelsea will be a great day.

The aftermath will be even sweeter with Chelsea supporters flooding phoneins complaining about the poor runing of the club and excessive spending as they struggle to find the millions of pounds a week to pay the players.

Can't imagine too many clubs or opposing supporters willing to crack open the collection buckets like they have for other clubs in financial trouble.

Chelsea are treading a dangerous path, they aren't in the most stable of positions and if they continue to make enemies they could find themselves alone at a time when they need all the help they can get.

[Cardie]

Chelsea have actually won something later that the date you say (not comparable to what Liverpool have won) but you are wrong - FA Cup a few times, Cup winners cup twice, Super Cup, league cup .....

But as we're constantly told only the league and European cup matter. If Gerrard wanted Super Cups/League Cups/FA Cups he could stay at Liverpool.

[Squillary]

Irrelevant since both have won major trophies in the last 10 years, barring an FA Cup you have to go back to 1953 for the last time Chelsea won anything.

That was their only championship, but they won European stuff, FA Cups and League Cups recently, didn't they? (Hoddle\Gullit\Vialli years) and I seem to remember something in the 70's (not sure to be honest). But I accept that historically these are nothing to compare with us or RM or even United.

Still, that's not the point is it. Stevie doesn't want to win something three, ten or twenty years ago, he wants to win something in the coming years. In that respect "history is bunk". Ask Spurs! Ask Forest!

Sure, it's great that Benites is with us now and for all we know he'll do what Ged did in our one good recent year and take it on further after that, but what's the honest likelihood with the material he's got to work with? Owen may stay fit and work well with Cisse, but where are we going to magic the rest of a squad from? It may well come, but time is essential and that's what SG doesn't want to hang around for. That's his decision, whether we agree with it or not.

I'm reading all this stuff about past promises, but what did you really expect him to say when the supporters are suckers for this kind of thing? He played to the bitter end with full commitment (enough for a full team!) and he's criticised for doing it for self-promotion! This bitterness won't get us anywhere...

The only chance we currently seem to have to replace the passionless performances from the bulk of the squad lie in selling our 'history' to some Thai conman or some buddies he can rustle up. Can't any of us see this is as empty and regressive as any of the complaints about Chelsea's current benefactor?

Sad to say, we're in much the same boat as Everton (albeit from a far better starting point). We need to sell our best player for a fortune to get half a dozen decent players to rebuild this shell of a first team and start to compete with the current big boys. We're barely in the race atm and SG isn't the only one losing patience...

[Cardie]

if he just wanted more money he would have gone to Chelsea at the beginning of last season.

And if he wanted glory and trophies he wouldn't be going to Chelsea full stop.

[Squillary]

[Double-take]
I'd just like to say I didn't write this, but give-or-take some turns of phrase which I wouldn't use, I'm broadly in sympathy.

If I had written it I'd have mentioned the weather is probably better down there too!   

[Squillary]

If you tread on people's dreams you really are a 24 carat shithouse.

Sorry but this is nonsense.
If people (you or I) invest so much emotional value in someone else fulfilling your dreams, we're on a hiding to nothing.

What would make him that 24ct shithouse is if he trod on his own dreams for the sake of not upsetting others.

As an aside, the same applied to Alan Smith at Leeds.

[Maggie May]

No.  It most certainly is not nonsense.  It is the absolute essence of supporting a team that they do fulfil your dreams.  Much as I would dearly love to have done it was never possible for me to play for Liverpool, but I have trusted those who can to do it for me.  I think I may not possibly be alone in thinking this.  I won't employ the same rudeness to you as you do to me, but if you don't feel like this, then what binds you and fulfils you and uplifts you?  And as for Gerard treading on his own dreams?  No need.  They can be fulfilled on the pitch at Anfield. 

[Bob Kurac]

No.  It most certainly is not nonsense.  It is the absolute essence of supporting a team that they do fulfil your dreams.  Much as I would dearly love to have done it was never possible for me to play for Liverpool, but I have trusted those who can to do it for me.  I think I may not possibly be alone in thinking this.  I won't employ the same rudeness to you as you do to me, but if you don't feel like this, then what binds you and fulfils you and uplifts you?  And as for Gerard treading on his own dreams?  No need.  They can be fulfilled on the pitch at Anfield. 

Agreed. And the Alan Smith comment was bizarre. Did we get relegated and go bust, or did we finish 4th, get a "better" manager, and have the possibility of significant financial improvements from investment and even a new stadium, if it goes well ?

[hoonin]

but he´s been patient and now (in his opinion) enough is enough - if he just wanted more money he would have gone to Chelsea at the beginning of last season.

How'd you work that out then? A player spends half the season imploring a fellow team mate to stay, signs a new contract himself and generally gives off the impression that he lives, breaths, eats and shits Liverpool FC, the team he adores and now captains.

So what exactly did happen in those few short months, bar the club doing all it possibly could to try and rectify its obvious under achievement in recent years (and 30 points behind the champions is certainly an under achievement)? What went so horribly wrong in less than 6 months that Gerrard felt he hqd no option but to leave?

All those things he said, it all seems a little hollow now, probably something similar to what Chelsea fans will feel when their own badge kissers such as Lampard fuck off and chase the doller in Italy or Spain in a few years time.

[Cardie]

All those things he said, it all seems a little hollow now, probably something similar to what Chelsea fans will feel when their own badge kissers such as Lampard fuck off and chase the doller in Italy or Spain in a few years time.

Chelsea will be begging those badge kissers to move on so they can get in a few million and fight off the threat of administration.

[Squillary]

Sorry if you thought I was being rude to you, but in fact there wasn't a single rude thing I said about you - just about your opinion.

But it seems like we do fundamentally disagree about what comprises supporting and following a team, as you say. It's been 10 or 12 years since I disabused myself of the view that handing over your wad entitles you to do anything other than watch and make a few positive or negative noises at the appropriate times. It entitles you to a say, but only one which will be ignored. There's no team in the world where any fan's views make the slightest difference to anything in the final analysis. Of course we like to think it does, but it doesn't. Not a bit.

Reason to support? I can only think it's genetic, but I was spoilt by being brought up with the football of the 70's and beyond. I do a lot of hoping - as much then as now, strangely, but with a far greater likelihood it'd be realised back then of course. We're back to the 'what makes a scouser' debate now.

I've always thought that whatever happens to me is down to me and whatever happens to someone else is their business. The last thing I'd contemplate is to trust some unconnected person with the responsibility of fulfilling my own dreams - that's in any sphere of life, but especially not football. By all means continue with your view, but I'll continue to be unsurprised about any let down.

Just to combine two replies in one, I don't see what's bizarre about the Alan Smith comment. Leeds fans think the same about Smith as we do about Gerrard, irrespective of the merits of their justification. They wanted him to help get them back out of the 1st division (some hope) because he's a local lad born and bred and a supporter. We want Steven Gerrard to take us onto cups and championships for the same reasons.

Same thought process, different scale and likelihood - that's all. The bizarre bit is what?

[hoonin]

There's no team in the world where any fan's views make the slightest difference to anything in the final analysis. Of course we like to think it does, but it doesn't. Not a bit.

Are you sure about that? Perhaps you should ask the Lazio players who got locked in their training ground changing rooms and confronted by a few Lazio Ultras.....

[Ale-lujah! Ale-lujah!]

Squillary, Paulmila, Paul Tillet

This is not an issue about parochial blindness or inertia. Purely and simply it is about deceit and betrayal.

A son of the city, the captain of a football club of the highest emotional attachment, signed a 5 year contract some 8 months or so ago, at the same time publically and proudly pledging his undying loyalty to the club and fans.

His continued eulogies to both are, frankly, unprecedented by any player in LFC's history.

Those emotional undertakings, nay, commitments now lie in tatters.

Understandably, those Reds who invested their own vicarious existences in the bosom of their captain's commitment to their cause - something fans per se tend to do as it happens -  are now feeling rather crestfallen.

Not because a gifted young footballer has expressed his longing to move away to further his career but because he has broken a very real promise he made to them.
 
Now I am unsure whether each or any of you is deliberately missing the point at issue here [Blues on a wind up?] or for some inexplicable reason genuinely cannot see why emotions amongst your fellow Reds are so raw.

The fact remains, however, a uniquely high profile emotional and contractual commitment has been broken for personal gain and folk are understandably angry about it.

There really is no debate over this. Quite simply, people are mortified at having their trust shattered.

The debate as to whether or not it makes sound sense or it is reasonable to have such implicit faith in some fellow human being who so happens to captain the football team of their attachment is not the point at issue here.

Such intellectualising is surely a subject for some other less emotive time and place. 

[Bob Kurac]

Some might suggest he'd be doing her a service, rather than depriving her of what sounds very much like an inferiority complex! Is that what you guys think? I'd steer clear of that parochial bubble

And you clearly have, achieving almost the opposite effect

But I'm happy for you that you've moved away, done well for yourself, learned to write posh, have no expectations from the game other than to make a few noises at the match, and live out your dreams elsewhere, probably writing obscure graphics software for obsolete computers ... in Birmingham. But hey, no need to apologise for yourself by backing Steven Gerrard for turning his back on Liverpool FC.

Same thought process, different scale and likelihood - that's all. The bizarre bit is what?

The truly bizarre thing here is that, for one so loquacious and hence we assume intelligent, you can see only the superficial similarities and not the more profound disimilarities.

But the night is drawing on, and bad light stops play.