Topic: Adam Lallana

[Danyaals Kop]

Reminds me of Yossi with the little turns and one-twos.

[jooneyisdagod]

Surely you are kidding? Lallana is ok, but he doesn't even make our starting lineup. I think his ball control is pretty average for this level of football. His main strength is his reading of the game - a smart player.

Not a chance. His control is superb. There are so many occasions in the game when he gets a ball smacked into him and he stops it dead.

[Kansti]

Earlier on in the season, I mentioned Lallana was trying too hard to impress, and often tried to be too tricky for his own good. He seems much more focused now, and obviously much more efficient. I'd like to see him in a more central position though. He'll be an absolutely nightmare to defend in the centre of the pitch I reckon, he can turn left, right, woops no left again. 

[jepovic]

Cruyff or Konchesky are apparently the only two quality levels players can have according to fans...

[Defendant]

Cruyff or Konchesky are apparently the only two quality levels players can have according to fans...

I'm wondering what a Konchesky turn is. Hopefully it happens in the car before signing.

[decosabute]

I'm wondering what a Konchesky turn is. Hopefully it happens in the car before signing.

[jooneyisdagod]

I'm wondering what a Konchesky turn is. Hopefully it happens in the car before signing.

It's when you turn the ball over to the opponent.

[Defendant]

It's when you turn the ball over to the opponent.

Ah! a konchesky turn-over.

[clinical]

Ignoring the cost. He's a great squad player to have no doubts about it. Won't kick up a fuss if he's not playing every single game either. Good buy.

[rocco]

Really think Lallana is a Fantastic player and very much underrated by a lot of fans .

[Caston]

Even if he is not starting the majority of games it's good to actually have someone who can come off the bench and change games.

[clinical]

Really think Lallana is a Fantastic player and very much underrated by a lot of fans .

He wasn't underrated in the summer though, many on here thought he'd displace Coutinho. Which was never going to happen.

[Walk On]

Even if he is not starting the majority of games it's good to actually have someone who can come off the bench and change games.

Which is a change from the role he had at Southampton.  It's can't be stressed enough how difficult it can be to adapt to a club with higher expectations and how every performance is analysed.  Would love to see him cement himself in the starting line-up but its hard to see where he'd currently fit in given the formation and the game we're playing. 

[Tobez]

Which is a change from the role he had at Southampton.  It's can't be stressed enough how difficult it can be to adapt to a club with higher expectations and how every performance is analysed.  Would love to see him cement himself in the starting line-up but its hard to see where he'd currently fit in given the formation and the game we're playing.

Really? Those 'inside forward' roles that we're playing with are basically tailor-made for Lallana. Of course, we have Sterling and Coutinho to play there but in terms of end product at least, Lallana would start ahead of Coutinho for me. Given that he's had a hugely disrupted season through injury and, as you mentioned, has had to cope with a whole new set of expectations given the club and his price tag, I think his performances this season have warranted a place in the starting line-up when fit.

I suppose that Coutinho on his day can be devastating - the performance against Arsenal last year would be a great example of that - but in terms of consistently scoring or creating Lallana is a step ahead at the moment.

[Johnnyboy1973]

I suppose that Coutinho on his day can be devastating - the performance against Arsenal last year would be a great example of that - but in terms of consistently scoring or creating Lallana is a step ahead at the moment.

Coutinho's a better player at present. Yes, Lallana has a greater eye for goal but he doesn't run a game the way Phil does and for the signing he was, this is what I think we were looking for him to do.

Second season will tell but at present he looks like a member of the orchestra when for that money you would be hoping for him to be the conductor.

We needed Lallana at the beginning of the season when Couthinho was off form but on recent form he doesn't touch him.

It's not a bad thing though having him, Phil and Raheem fighting for two positions.

[Walk On]

Really? Those 'inside forward' roles that we're playing with are basically tailor-made for Lallana. Of course, we have Sterling and Coutinho to play there but in terms of end product at least, Lallana would start ahead of Coutinho for me. Given that he's had a hugely disrupted season through injury and, as you mentioned, has had to cope with a whole new set of expectations given the club and his price tag, I think his performances this season have warranted a place in the starting line-up when fit.

I suppose that Coutinho on his day can be devastating - the performance against Arsenal last year would be a great example of that - but in terms of consistently scoring or creating Lallana is a step ahead at the moment.

I think you've answered your own question there... if he'd had a better start to the season (injuries etc.) then he may be ahead of Coutinho but then we might not be seeing the current Coutinho who has been playing out of his skin.  Admittedly, he's lacking in the goals department but think his vision and link-up play with Sterling has been vital. 

Is it worth pushing one of the out to the wing so that both can be accommodated in the same team?

[Tobez]

Coutinho's a better player at present. Yes, Lallana has a greater eye for goal but he doesn't run a game the way Phil does and for the signing he was, this is what I think we were looking for him to do.

Second season will tell but at present he looks like a member of the orchestra when for that money you would be hoping for him to be the conductor.

We needed Lallana at the beginning of the season when Couthinho was off form but on recent form he doesn't touch him.

It's not a bad thing though having him, Phil and Raheem fighting for two positions.

I'm not sure I agree that Coutinho's a better player at the moment. He's been in very good form for the past few games (although he looked like he could do with a rest in the last two) and some of the things he does, like that chipped assist for Sterling's goal against West Ham, are divine. The fact remains though that he doesn't produce goals and assists as frequently as he should and, more pertinently, as frequently as Lallana does. Coutinho's talent is practically limitless but as things stand I would choose Lallana in the starting line-up because he is more likely to create or score a goal.

[Tobez]

I think you've answered your own question there... if he'd had a better start to the season (injuries etc.) then he may be ahead of Coutinho but then we might not be seeing the current Coutinho who has been playing out of his skin.  Admittedly, he's lacking in the goals department but think his vision and link-up play with Sterling has been vital. 

Is it worth pushing one of the out to the wing so that both can be accommodated in the same team?

Not sure I was asking a question lol, just saying that I thought there is very much a position for Lallana in the team, and it happens to be currently occupied by Coutinho.

I think we're seeing a little drop-off in Coutinho's performances in the last couple of games, so it might be time to refresh him and give Lallana a try alongside Sterling and Sturridge. It's definitely not worth changing the shape which has done so well to accommodate both of them, with the possible excpetion of pushing Sterling out to RWB. But that's a different discussion.

In any case, to go back to my original point, I think Coutinho is an incredibly good player but at the moment doesn't provide the same impact as Lallana and for that reason I would take the latter over the former in the starting line-up.

It's a great problem to have!

[Roger Federer]

Cruyff or Konchesky are apparently the only two quality levels players can have according to fans...

Only if you ignore the mentions of Whelan, Beardsley, Kennedy, Litmanen and Benayoun, all from the last page or so. And from what I've seen it was only comparisions with their respective style of play, not quality. I think Lallana and Benayoun are quite similar myself, with Lallana having a better touch and balance, and he's probably trhe better player overall, but they also share some rather frustrating aspects. Like holding on to the ball for too long for example.

[CHOPPER]

Listen, the lot of ye. Its my party and I'll cry if I want to and I've seen all these players and he's like Ray Kennedy - Not Litmanen, Not Beardsley, Not Benayoun, not anyone.

So, now we've clarified that -  its Ray Kennedy, no one else, alright!?


Be warned: There will be Chinese burns issued if there is non compliance.

[deadsetred]

I'm not sure I agree that Coutinho's a better player at the moment. He's been in very good form for the past few games (although he looked like he could do with a rest in the last two) and some of the things he does, like that chipped assist for Sterling's goal against West Ham, are divine. The fact remains though that he doesn't produce goals and assists as frequently as he should and, more pertinently, as frequently as Lallana does. Coutinho's talent is practically limitless but as things stand I would choose Lallana in the starting line-up because he is more likely to create or score a goal.

Well Lallana definitely doesn't 'create' more goals. The assist stat is arbitrary as we all know, as often its the pass prior to the assist that plays a greater role in the goal. So you have to use your judgement from watching the game. Coutinho has 'created' plenty of goals, and has 'created' plenty of chances that didnt happen to be executed (that's the other problem with the assist stat - it relies on the recipient to finish!)

[Tobez]

Well Lallana definitely doesn't 'create' more goals. The assist stat is arbitrary as we all know, as often its the pass prior to the assist that plays a greater role in the goal. So you have to use your judgement from watching the game. Coutinho has 'created' plenty of goals, and has 'created' plenty of chances that didnt happen to be executed (that's the other problem with the assist stat - it relies on the recipient to finish!)

I get what you're saying, but an assist stat isn't completely arbitrary. Whilst it doesn't necessarily show the whole story, the number of assists a player gets in a season is a decent starting point for looking at their creativity. Looking at the Squawka stats per 90 (which only show the league, admittedly) the two stack up as follows:

                 Goals               Assists            Chances Created          Key Passes
 
Lallana:       0.34*              0.25*                    1.59                        1.34

Coutinho:    0.11                0.22                      1.61*                      1.39*

As you can see this basically backs up what we've both been saying - it's true that Coutinho makes (very marginally) more key passes and creates more chances in a game, but Lallana is ahead in terms of assists (again, very marginally) and goals (by a fair distance). I'm not saying that stats are the be-all and end-all but it would seem that in terms of decisive contributions Lallana is the better bet - at the moment.

P.s. I didn't include the actual image from the page because I'm a technological klutz, but here's the link if you want to dick about with it

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/adam_lallana/126/126/723/36/p|premier_league/2014/2015/philippe_coutinho/126/126/2673/0/p#key_passes/assists/chances_created/goals_scored#90

[PhaseOfPlay]

Well Lallana definitely doesn't 'create' more goals. The assist stat is arbitrary as we all know, as often its the pass prior to the assist that plays a greater role in the goal. So you have to use your judgement from watching the game. Coutinho has 'created' plenty of goals, and has 'created' plenty of chances that didnt happen to be executed (that's the other problem with the assist stat - it relies on the recipient to finish!)

It does?

[robert121]

Ah! a konchesky turn-over.

That's a Danish pastry, isn't it??

[Tobez]

That's a Danish pastry, isn't it??

Canadian sex position, I heard.

[Haggis36]

Regardless of the actual numbers, certainly when it comes to goals I would always expect Lallana to be far more likely to score when in a good position than I would with Coutinho.

In terms of creativity? Hmm, it's harder to tell. Phil is the more skillful and probably more inventive but I think Lallana has superior off the ball movement which can be invaluable against packed defences.

They're both great players in their own right and I think Lallana doesn't really get the credit he probably deserves on here. They're both (at present) a bit inconsistent and have patches of questionable form, so it's great that we have them both! I hope Lallana can get am injury-free run under his belt.

[flipflan]

To quote Trevor Sinclair (albeit talking about a different player) - "He could play in a postbox"

[clinical]

To quote Trevor Sinclair (albeit talking about a different player) - "He could play in a postbox"

Play what? Hide and seek?

Yeah he's pretty small

[BassTunedToRed]

The assist stat is arbitrary as we all know, as often its the pass prior to the assist that plays a greater role in the goal. So you have to use your judgement from watching the game.

There is a stat that Opta collect called a 'second goal assist' which is exactly what you describe. Unfortunately nowhere (WhoScored, Squawka etc) choose to publish it. @natefc posted a table of these figures for our squad on Twitter yesterday - for what it's worth, both Coutinho and Lallana currently have two second goal assists (or 'hockey assists' as he calls them).

[kcbworth]

I'm not sure I agree that Coutinho's a better player at the moment. He's been in very good form for the past few games (although he looked like he could do with a rest in the last two) and some of the things he does, like that chipped assist for Sterling's goal against West Ham, are divine. The fact remains though that he doesn't produce goals and assists as frequently as he should and, more pertinently, as frequently as Lallana does. Coutinho's talent is practically limitless but as things stand I would choose Lallana in the starting line-up because he is more likely to create or score a goal.

Coutinho got kicked off the park against Everton, and went off injured, and just as luck would have it , Lallana wasn't able to come on in his place as he was out injured or something.

So theyre both recovering at the moment.

Coutinho is orders of magnitude better imho, but, that's only because I feel he's far and away the best player in our team. Lallana is as good as any of the rest of them imho

Having Lallana, Coutinho, and Sterling available, and hopefully regularly on the pitch together, but worst case rotating between each other, augers very well for our future prospects

[mrantarctica]

I'm wondering what a Konchesky turn is. Hopefully it happens in the car before signing.

I think its where you turn to your mum to answer your critics

[Tobez]

Coutinho got kicked off the park against Everton, and went off injured, and just as luck would have it , Lallana wasn't able to come on in his place as he was out injured or something.

So theyre both recovering at the moment.

Coutinho is orders of magnitude better imho, but, that's only because I feel he's far and away the best player in our team. Lallana is as good as any of the rest of them imho

Having Lallana, Coutinho, and Sterling available, and hopefully regularly on the pitch together, but worst case rotating between each other, augers very well for our future prospects

Not sure that Coutinho is the best player in the squad...

Don't get me wrong, I think he's quality and has the talent to become world-class. I mentioned examples above of how I think he pulls off some amazing passes and when he's on his game he's a joy to watch. At the same time, he can be a little frustrating because he doesn't always produce the end result that his ability promises. For that reason, I think Lallana should be ahead of him when fit at the moment.

Returning to Lallana for the moment, I had a little look through at his injury record before coming to Liverpool. Thankfully, he hasn't played fewer than 30 games in any league season since 2008, which suggests that he's been unlucky this year rather than having more chronic injury problems. Hopefully he'll be able to get a run of games between now and the end of the season (the club will play another potential 25, not including replays) which will set him up well to break into his 'peak' year next season. I think that he has shown some real glimpses of what he is capable of and a consistent run in the side could see him reproduce some of his best form.

[CHOPPER]

What a goal that was not allowed and will never ever, ever count. Generally fuck in ace, love the lad - probably our best singing this season.

Pity he's not as pretty as me though, or he'd be the complete football player. *Carly Simon*

[Snail]

Me gusta.

[dmorgan]

Was brilliant today....his offside goal had it gone in would probably have been the goal of the season. Exquisite touch and finish from a tight angle

[ScubaSteve]

Quality player its a shame he never started mid week. brendan seems to bench him for important games

[FlashGordon]

Quality player its a shame he never started mid week. brendan seems to bench him for important games

Ah what was today then? A kickabout in the park?

[west_london_red]

What a goal that was not allowed and will never ever, ever count. Generally fuck in ace, love the lad - probably our best singing this season.

Pity he's not as pretty as me though, or he'd be the complete football player. *Carly Simon*

Anyone who has ever kicked a football should appreciate that goal that wasn't a goal, the level of control there was as good as you will see.

Seriously do not understand anyone who doesn't rate that lad, he's like Luis Garcia but just a bit less frustrating, and EVERYONE loves Luis Garcia.

[Djimi Smicer34]

He's been one of my favourite players to watch for a while, his technical ability and close control is sublime.  He's a perfect fit for us, he has all the attributes to be a really important player for Liverpool.  He'll prove to be an excellent signing.

[Asam]

Anyone who has ever kicked a football should appreciate that goal that wasn't a goal, the level of control there was as good as you will see.

Seriously do not understand anyone who doesn't rate that lad, he's like Luis Garcia but just a bit less frustrating, and EVERYONE loves Luis Garcia.

Garcia did in some massive, massive games for us that directly lead us to winning the biggest trophy in football and some other huge games, Lallana has time to do the same for us but his actual contribution so far in terms of goals has been disapointing