Author Topic: The Attack  (Read 394676 times)

Offline Mingle

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #160 on: October 30, 2014, 09:11:54 am »
Borini is a runner... He'll run all day for ya! But he doesn't even seem to get regular chances in games! Lambert gets a few more, and Mario gets a few than that!

Last season showed us that Borini needs a decent run of games to be influential... He isn't going to get that time at Liverpool
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #161 on: October 30, 2014, 09:22:40 am »
I personally think our strikers should all have pace, technique and the ability to get in behind the opposition defence. I'd be looking to offload Borini (even though I like him) and Lambert and bring in strikers who are more akin to Sturridge. I'd keep Balotelli because he has the technique and pace but also aerial ability and physical power to offer that something different. Sturridge, Origi, Balotelli, new striker.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #162 on: October 30, 2014, 09:39:30 am »
Origi will be the answer in a couple of years. Him and sturridge will be brilliant. But we need another like them now, and have to get that type striker in January. It's vital, if we don't we won't get into the top 4 due to Sturridge's injury record. This type of striker suits our play so much.

Basically no more big lumps!! they are never going to work when we have the likes of sterling and coutinho.
Thank Fowler we're not getting Caulker

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #163 on: October 30, 2014, 09:43:29 am »
Markovic simply needs time. I think he is in a similar position to when Sterling looked completely ineffectual (up to and including the Hull game). He needs time to be eased in.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #164 on: October 30, 2014, 09:44:45 am »
Markovic simply needs time. I think he is in a similar position to when Sterling looked completely ineffectual (up to and including the Hull game). He needs time to be eased in.

He needs a year. said it ages ago. We won't see the best of him till atleast next season. It's a little bit like the Lamela situation. The difference being Lamela was forced to join spurs.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 09:46:21 am by clinical »
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Offline theMilkman

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #165 on: October 30, 2014, 10:46:30 am »
And I must say I agree with "theMilkman" above. I too thought Markovic showed some real glimpses of promise in the game, culminating in him gliding past 2 defenders to the endline...and sadly getting the ball knocked out of play at the last second. He looks low on confidence but he certainly looks to be turning a corner of sorts. I've read a lot of reports that Liverpool were lucky to win that game. We had 20 shots to their 5 and dominated all the stats. I think they were lucky to even be in it towards the end. We just happened to score our goals at the death.

Good to know I'm not alone in thinking that. I think ideally he would be getting played in a team that doesn't necessarily NEED him to be doing anything spectacular for a while, so that he can bed in for a month or two without the team suffering from it. The problem is there are/were so many other problems especially with sturridge injured that he gets put under the microscope at a time when he really shouldn't be, and he's seen his game time reduce further because of it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 10:54:29 am by theMilkman »
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2014, 08:40:36 am »
interesting comments

Rodgers persevered with a 4-2-3-1 formation in midweek but he says in the wake of seeing the Reds fire blanks against both Real Madrid and Hull City he made a slight tactical tweak.

The Reds boss may have ditched his midfield diamond during Daniel Sturridge’s injury absence but he is keen to ensure that the way his team is set up doesn’t become too predictable.

He’s hoping an element of surprise will help Liverpool bring a halt to Newcastle’s recent revival under Alan Pardew.

“We changed the system of our team the other night but I’m not going to reveal what we did,” he said.

“It was something I had thought about with the shape. Part of the key for us over the past 18 months has been how we’ve been able to surprise opponents with our set-up and structure.

“Time was limited but we worked on a structure for a few days in training. With the ball we had a shape, without the ball we had a shape.

“I was very pleased with how fluid the team looked. A strength of ours is the flexibility of the players and their ability to play in different formations.

“Teams prepare all week to play against us in a certain shape and we have that ability to change the way we play. Credit to the players in terms of how they cope with that and the intelligence with which they play.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #167 on: October 31, 2014, 11:55:12 am »
Overall our squad has 'structural' issues.

We are heavy in the 18-23 y/o & 30+ y/o bracket.  But we have a shortage of players, at least top players in the 24-28 y/o bracket.

Nowhere is this issue better reflected than in our attack.  We sold our best player, overall and in this position, and we have had the other one injured for most of this season.  So it's been left to the younger players & veterans to carry the attack.  It's no wonder that we have struggled. 

The simple solution is to recruit players in the 24-28 bracket.  But the ones worth recruiting are generally expensive.  So I think we deliberately avoid this bracket and try to divide the legs & experience between the young players and the veterans, instead of recruiting the total package in one player i.e. Suarez/Sturridge.

PS

We have a number of players that are 24.  These players are entering a phase in their career where they will be expected to contribute and lead the team.  We have seen mixed results so far.  Henderson/Allen have done well but the likes of Lovren/Sakho/Balotelli have not delivered.

Offline redmark

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #168 on: October 31, 2014, 12:07:27 pm »
The simple solution is to recruit players in the 24-28 bracket.  But the ones worth recruiting are generally expensive.  So I think we deliberately avoid this bracket and try to divide the legs & experience between the young players and the veterans, instead of recruiting the total package in one player i.e. Suarez/Sturridge.

PS

We have a number of players that are 24.  These players are entering a phase in their career where they will be expected to contribute and lead the team.  We have seen mixed results so far.  Henderson/Allen have done well but the likes of Lovren/Sakho/Balotelli have not delivered.

Well, exactly: it's the simplest and most expensive solution. Not only do those players cost more, but they need replacing sooner.

Of course, there's a bit more risk signing younger unproven players, and a longer wait.for them to deliver. If Origi in a couple of years joins Borini in the failed/surplus to requirements category, and Sturridge's availability limits his contribution, that strategy won't have worked too well. But you really only need half of those younger players to work out, to make it a viable strategy.

In the longer term of course, we should reach a stage of regular CL participation, increased revenue and ground expansion to have the financial power to go out and recruit one or two peak-years players if necessary.


It's worth noting that this isn't really a new, FSG thing, too. Paisley bought almost exclusively players under the age of 24, too. Dalglish was 26 of course, and I think only Wardle or Ogrizovic was older than that.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 12:19:12 pm by redmark »
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Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #169 on: October 31, 2014, 12:20:20 pm »
Well, exactly: it's the simplest and most expensive solution. Not only do those players cost more, but they need replacing sooner.

Of course, there's a bit more risk signing younger unproven players, and a longer wait.for them to deliver. If Origi in a couple of years joins Borini in the failed/surplus to requirements category, and Sturridge's availability limits his contribution, that strategy won't have worked too well. But you really only need half of those younger players to work out, to make it a viable strategy.

In the longer term of course, we should reach a stage of regular CL participation, increased revenue and ground expansion to have the financial power to go out and recruit one or two peak-years players if necessary.

I think the whole strategy hinges on remaining competitive i.e. CL qualification.  We can build slowly but taking the long route will be meaningless if we finish outside the top 4, the manager leaves/sacked and the squad is dismantled.

In 2 years time, if we keep this set of players together and give them experience (league & CL) we will have a young squad with experience.  Moreno (24), Lovren (27), Henderson (26), Allen (26), Coutinho (24), Sterling (21) & Sturridge (27) will have 100's games of experience but will also be at, more or less, a physical peak.  This is before you begin to include Manquillo (22), Can (22), Markovic (22) etc.  It is genuinely a unique position which is very difficult to replicate without years of planning or a huge recruitment budget.

CL qualification is very, very important this season.

Fingers crossed here.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #170 on: October 31, 2014, 12:21:12 pm »
Overall our squad has 'structural' issues.

We are heavy in the 18-23 y/o & 30+ y/o bracket.  But we have a shortage of players, at least top players in the 24-28 y/o bracket.

Nowhere is this issue better reflected than in our attack.  We sold our best player, overall and in this position, and we have had the other one injured for most of this season.  So it's been left to the younger players & veterans to carry the attack.  It's no wonder that we have struggled. 

The simple solution is to recruit players in the 24-28 bracket.  But the ones worth recruiting are generally expensive.  So I think we deliberately avoid this bracket and try to divide the legs & experience between the young players and the veterans, instead of recruiting the total package in one player i.e. Suarez/Sturridge.

PS

We have a number of players that are 24.  These players are entering a phase in their career where they will be expected to contribute and lead the team.  We have seen mixed results so far.  Henderson/Allen have done well but the likes of Lovren/Sakho/Balotelli have not delivered.
Sturridge is 25 moving into his prime and last season proved he is the best English striker in league, the key is keeping him fit and not letting Uncle Roy run him into the ground.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #171 on: October 31, 2014, 12:21:17 pm »
It's worth noting that this isn't really a new, FSG thing, too. Paisley bought almost exclusively players under the age of 24, too. Dalglish was 26 of course, and I think only Wardle or Ogrizovic was older than that.
Unfortunately, given my age, I see it as a Ferguson thing.

*kills self*

Offline redmark

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #172 on: October 31, 2014, 12:34:05 pm »
I think the whole strategy hinges on remaining competitive i.e. CL qualification.  We can build slowly but taking the long route will be meaningless if we finish outside the top 4, the manager leaves/sacked and the squad is dismantled.

In 2 years time, if we keep this set of players together and give them experience (league & CL) we will have a young squad with experience.  Moreno (24), Lovren (27), Henderson (26), Allen (26), Coutinho (24), Sterling (21) & Sturridge (27) will have 100's games of experience but will also be at, more or less, a physical peak.  This is before you begin to include Manquillo (22), Can (22), Markovic (22) etc.  It is genuinely a unique position which is very difficult to replicate without years of planning or a huge recruitment budget.

CL qualification is very, very important this season.

Fingers crossed here.

Absolutely, CL qualification needs to be regular, if not permanent, and it needs managerial stability (ideally, going back to discussions before Rodgers was appointed, a philosophy (or even a DoF) within the club so that even managerial changes aren't too disruptive in terms of style of football and, hopefully, personnel).

It's the right way of doing it, though. If you allow a single manager total control over transfers, and to recruit 'peak-age' players, you can be left in a real mess if that manager fails; too many players reaching the end of their peaks together, needing replacing at the same time as a new manager comes in with new ideas.

Regardless of the names, perhaps, this summer's strategy was spot on: four youngsters, three players in the 24-26 bracket, one veteran.
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Offline redmark

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #173 on: October 31, 2014, 12:34:33 pm »
Unfortunately, given my age, I see it as a Ferguson thing.

*kills self*

Ah, your age has plenty of compensations :).
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Offline flipflan

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #174 on: October 31, 2014, 12:58:19 pm »
When do we actually get Origi playing for us?

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #175 on: October 31, 2014, 12:58:59 pm »
When do we actually get Origi playing for us?

Next season.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #176 on: October 31, 2014, 03:25:58 pm »
“We changed the system of our team the other night but I’m not going to reveal what we did,” he said.
Any ideas what he means? :-\
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Offline joe ®

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #177 on: October 31, 2014, 04:19:56 pm »
Could be completely off the mark here but it looked like the big difference was with the full backs. Manquillo was pushed up high, acting as a winger on the right hand side when we were in possession, while Johnson stayed pretty much level with Lucas in the defensive midfield band.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #178 on: October 31, 2014, 04:27:32 pm »
Regardless of the names, perhaps, this summer's strategy was spot on: four youngsters, three players in the 24-26 bracket, one veteran.
We weren't far from getting it absolutely spot on (assuming Suarez was leaving) with Sanchez.  Good price for an attacker that would have contributed almost immediately.  It's probably fair to say we would have 5-7 points more this season if we had managed to sign him.

I guess we can count ourselves unlucky with that one.  But these things happen.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #179 on: October 31, 2014, 04:42:18 pm »
I think the whole strategy hinges on remaining competitive i.e. CL qualification.  We can build slowly but taking the long route will be meaningless if we finish outside the top 4, the manager leaves/sacked and the squad is dismantled.

In 2 years time, if we keep this set of players together and give them experience (league & CL) we will have a young squad with experience.  Moreno (24), Lovren (27), Henderson (26), Allen (26), Coutinho (24), Sterling (21) & Sturridge (27) will have 100's games of experience but will also be at, more or less, a physical peak.  This is before you begin to include Manquillo (22), Can (22), Markovic (22) etc.  It is genuinely a unique position which is very difficult to replicate without years of planning or a huge recruitment budget.

CL qualification is very, very important this season.

Fingers crossed here.

Well said. Add in Origi (21), Rossiter (19), Williams (21), Ibe (20), Ojo (19), Kent (20), Wilson (19), and perhaps Wisdom (23), Ilori (23), Luis Alberto (24) and Suso (22), and our conveyor belt of talent becomes really evident. I've had difficulty understanding the internal logic of the club's transfer policy of late, but this at least clearly sheds some light on where we are headed. I agree with you and remark that we need CL qualification to make this strategy work in the long-run. But, boy, if it works...

Offline DanA

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #180 on: November 1, 2014, 02:57:24 am »
Last summer I think we made some good progress in the long term but didn't really execute in terms of our short/medium term needs. I think we unbalanced the squad somewhat with too few goal scorers  in the midfield and attack. We also have too little pace and mobility in our strikers. I think that will right itself long term with the arrival of Origi and the further development of Markovic, Sterling, Coutinho and Henderson as goal scorers but for the time being it's hurting us, particularly so without Sturridge.

It might be that we make a couple of moves to right the short/medium term but as others have said we need to find a way to stay in the top four because we've got the foundation of a really good squad looking  longer term and if we can attract one or two top players we'll be lethal.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #181 on: November 1, 2014, 02:58:17 pm »
Mario fault today? all 3 behind him looked totally ineffective......

I don't even think the criticasters are slating him for playing poorly. That can happen, especially when we play like this. It's his attitude. You know, he gets this half-decent ball from Henderson, it's slightly above him but he doesn't bother to jump for it. Instead, even before his chances of reaching the ball are really gone, he's staring at Henderson with a  Basil Fawlty-like 'My God, how am I supposed to deal with riff-raff like you' look. If he was my colleague I wouldn't bother to do anything for Balotelli.
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #182 on: November 1, 2014, 02:59:25 pm »
When is Daniel back  :'(

After the international break. Palace away, you would guess.

We'll improve with him in our side, but don't expect a drastic change. We'll be capable of putting in more performances like Spurs away, but my judgment is that for every one of those performances, there will still be a good number of performances that are alike to what we've seen today, last week or the first day of the season.

Very good business has to be done in January.
« Last Edit: November 1, 2014, 03:05:27 pm by Kals »

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #183 on: November 1, 2014, 02:59:58 pm »
Without being that pessimist, anyone who thinks everything is going to be ok when Daniel Sturridge returns is being a bit naive.

Lots of problems with our attack at the moment, horrible balance to it and creating chances looking like a big problem.. Obviously Daniel's movement will help but this 4231 that we now play doesn't suit our players and I don't think the diamond is the formation of choice.. Hopefully I'm miles off.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #184 on: November 1, 2014, 03:00:15 pm »
If your post is a reaction to today's match. Please post it in the post match topic. Thank you.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #185 on: November 1, 2014, 03:03:54 pm »
We don't have an attack.

Mario pretty poor alone. Lambert not a player you'd consider top quality, borini not a player you'd consider top quality. Our midfield looked pretty devoid of any ideas too

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #186 on: November 1, 2014, 03:05:58 pm »
1 upfront. Working a treat.

I think we should continue to use this because ...

Hold on i'll think of a reason soon.

It'll come to me.

Because ....

Stuff.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #187 on: November 1, 2014, 03:10:13 pm »
Playing two upfront won't change our inability to keep the ball for any sustained period in the attacking third. That's been our biggest problem, it isolates whoever we play upfront, it means we turn the ball over in dangerous areas and means we look to force a pass even more.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #188 on: November 1, 2014, 03:12:06 pm »
Playing two upfront won't change our inability to keep the ball for any sustained period in the attacking third. That's been our biggest problem, it isolates whoever we play upfront, it means we turn the ball over in dangerous areas and means we look to force a pass even more.

We're not doing that now anyway! We're persisting with something we know isn't working.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #189 on: November 1, 2014, 03:14:32 pm »
We're not doing that now anyway! We're persisting with something we know isn't working.
Yeah I know we're not doing that now. Putting two strikers on the pitch isn't going to solve that issue though, as it's clearly something we struggle with no matter who plays at the moment.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #190 on: November 1, 2014, 03:16:03 pm »
Wow, that is an attacking unit that doesn't have a clue? From one of the most feared attacks in the world to a midfield. Knee's really jerkin at the mo but we just look so devoid of ideas.
Read Sturridge is out for another 3 weeks, so that's probably Mid December in reality. Thank fuck everyone else has their own problems.

Don't know what the answer is, scariest thing is, doesn't look as though Brendan does either? Surely Mario playing upfront on his own is done and dusted now. Works hard but getting nowhere?





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Re: The Attack
« Reply #191 on: November 1, 2014, 03:16:27 pm »
We have an attack?  ???

Offline Chakan

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #192 on: November 1, 2014, 03:17:13 pm »
Yeah I know we're not doing that now. Putting two strikers on the pitch isn't going to solve that issue though, as it's clearly something we struggle with no matter who plays at the moment.

We have no idea what it will and won't do. We played 2 strikers against Spurs and twatted them 3-0.

What I do know is we've looked utterly dire and out of ideas upfront playing 1. Yet every week we see the same thing Balotelli up front on his own, and every fucking week it's the same recycled bullshit.

Change it! Do something different, fucking sort it out.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #193 on: November 1, 2014, 03:20:27 pm »
We have no idea what it will and won't do. We played 2 strikers against Spurs and twatted them 3-0.

What I do know is we've looked utterly dire and out of ideas upfront playing 1. Yet every week we see the same thing Balotelli up front on his own, and every fucking week it's the same recycled bullshit.

Change it! Do something different, fucking sort it out.
We played two up front against West Ham and looked awful. Also helps that one of the two against Spurs was Sturridge. I don't think changing to 1,2,3 or 4 strikers changes our inability to keep the ball high up the pitch.

Offline CIDER_RED

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #194 on: November 1, 2014, 03:21:13 pm »
I would like to see two up front. Just not two out of the current selection. Had all three on today and they still never looked like scoring.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #195 on: November 1, 2014, 03:22:07 pm »
We played two up front against West Ham and looked awful. Also helps that one of the two against Spurs was Sturridge.

We've played it twice with a 50/50 success rate. We've played 1 upfront for almost the whole season and lost 5 times already. I'd say that's a pretty good indication it's not working.

Offline wemmick

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #196 on: November 1, 2014, 03:23:39 pm »
Don't know what the answer is, scariest thing is, doesn't look as though Brendan does either? Surely Mario playing upfront on his own is done and dusted now. Works hard but getting nowhere?

I'm not even sure it's one up front that is the problem. The midfield has been playing so poorly this season that we're consistently outnumbered in attack. Even with three more central attackers in the diamond, we would still be outnumbered 5 to 3. I don't think we will improve in attack, whatever the formation, until the midfield starts playing well consistently. As I recall, we didn't really push on in attack last either until the midfield started playing well consistently. 

Offline Chris~

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #197 on: November 1, 2014, 03:24:47 pm »
We've played it twice with a 50/50 success rate. We've played 1 upfront for almost the whole season and lost 5 times already. I'd say that's a pretty good indication it's not working.
What are you even arguing with me about here? I'm not saying one up front is working, I don't think it matters how many we play up front, we're still going to have the same issues.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #198 on: November 1, 2014, 03:26:25 pm »
What are you even arguing with me about here? I'm not saying one up front is working, I don't think it matters how many we play up front, we're still going to have the same issues.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm saying we need to change the situation upfront. I'm saying lets try 2 upfront for the next 3 or 4 games and see how it goes. It can't be any worse than what we've served up so far.

The problem I see right now is that we're not even trying to change what's happening.

Offline Michel

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #199 on: November 1, 2014, 03:27:01 pm »
Sterling        3 goals
Own goal     2 goals
Gerrard        2 goals
Sturridge,Lalllana,Coutinho,Henderson,Moreno 1 goal
Balotelli,Lambert,Borini  0 goals

0 GD.

Says it all.We can't score goals,we can't create chances.       
« Last Edit: November 1, 2014, 03:28:42 pm by Michel »