Author Topic: Individual Player Topics  (Read 65986 times)

Offline Reds Flag

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2014, 12:55:50 am »
Finishing second last season, while fantastic, certainly seems to have detached a large number of posters here from anything approaching reasonable expectations. It's incredibly disappointing how negative the atmosphere on this board has been lately, especially for those of us with memories longer than 12 months and who don't undeservedly take success and victories simply for granted. This has been bad in general but worse in individual player threads where I have been genuinely amazed by some of the rubbish spouted and I am ashamed at some of the abuse given to our players by some so called fans for the slightest mistake. Sadly, because in principle I think it's great to be able to discuss the merits and performances of our individual players, while the atmosphere here is as bizarrely toxic as it is, I fear the locks are the right way to go. I habitually come on here after each game and win or lose it's been a huge downer every single time so far this season in that the atmosphere has been far more negative than what I felt watching the match, and that's a terrible shame as it takes the joy out of being part of this community.

Have people forgotten that a mere 4 short years ago we were owned by H&G and managed by Hodgson!? A couple of unfortunate defeats is nothing...

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2014, 01:14:40 am »
Individual player topics generate discussion. A lot of that discussion was not up to par. We shall see how things pan out; on current evidence, the solution to a whole lot of poor-level discussion has brought with it a lot less discussion, period.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2014, 05:02:51 am »
Individual player topics generate discussion. A lot of that discussion was not up to par. We shall see how things pan out; on current evidence, the solution to a whole lot of poor-level discussion has brought with it a lot less discussion, period.
That is not necessarily a bad thing. And you do realise there's an international break on, right?

Offline stevieG786

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2014, 05:30:44 am »
I'm not a fan of this, but I'm willing to give it a try  ;)

Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2014, 06:15:31 am »
Great decision. Completely agree with cutting off avenues for the inane crap being posted in player threads. You know the usual suspects, the wade into threads and stink the place out with their pigheaded bullcrap.

Redcafe actually has a half decent system of vetting posters that goes some way towards weeding out the trolls, wums and 15 year old kids. You join the forum and are confined to one section for your 'probation'. Your contributions to the forum over a period of time will decide whether you get access to the main forum. Only posters who are willing to make a genuine effort are let in so it kind of works.

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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2014, 06:31:28 am »
That is not necessarily a bad thing. And you do realise there's an international break on, right?

Of course. I did not say it was necessarily a bad thing, btw. :wave
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Offline Jinxsy

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2014, 02:36:12 pm »
Very smart revenue driver this, it's got the hand of Ayre all over it.

40,000 + registered RAWK users who, with one stroke of the administrators return button, have now regained literally hundreds of hours in their personal and working lives. Unfortunately continued and prolonged exposure to the bile and nonsense that became ubiquitous in certain threads have left many of us shamefully addicted to it.

Yeah sure it's ok to check in here periodically and look for the gems from Roy, Wooly, L6 & Macca, but thats like your Christmas dinner or your birthday, right? Special occasion stuff. Where's the daily scran??

Straight on to the 'back pages' of the online nationals - two clicks later and you're checking out Kelly Brook in a swimsuit or Prince bloody George in a stylish new camo outfit.

Don't tell me there's not some referral link money here - I'm not having it.....I see what you're doing and its the devils work this lads.


Seriously though - good shout.

Offline yes

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2014, 05:00:56 pm »
I write this in full awareness of the slippery slope logical fallacy but RAWK's inexorable journey towards an LFC site where nobody can discuss LFC continues. The garnish has indeed eaten the steak.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2014, 05:01:25 pm »
I write this in full awareness of the slippery slope logical fallacy but RAWK's inexorable journey towards an LFC site where nobody can discuss LFC continues. The garnish has indeed eaten the steak.
You couldn't be more wrong.

Offline jackh

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2014, 05:03:52 pm »
Can't disagre with the reasoning behind this - good move.

Loosely related issue, and one I've raised before, a 'Former Players Board' within the Reds forum would be welcomed by at least me - seems a shame to lose updates within the General Sport section.

Offline SP

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #90 on: October 13, 2014, 05:06:39 pm »
Loosely related issue, and one I've raised before, a 'Former Players Board' within the Reds forum would be welcomed by at least me - seems a shame to lose updates within the General Sport section.

Like this one?

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?board=40.0

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2014, 05:12:40 pm »
Can't disagre with the reasoning behind this - good move.

Loosely related issue, and one I've raised before, a 'Former Players Board' within the Reds forum would be welcomed by at least me - seems a shame to lose updates within the General Sport section.
I like the idea. If its a goer would you help trawl through gen sport and find links to threads that could be moved across?

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2014, 05:13:10 pm »

Offline jackh

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #93 on: October 13, 2014, 05:20:03 pm »
Think Jack means including more recent departees...

Yep, that's right.  I like the history board but somehow it doesn't quite seem the place for updates on Xabi's time at Real and Bayern, or Sami's management career, and so on.

Whereas I feel as though the General Sport section puts too much distance between us and our former players...

Offline jackh

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #94 on: October 13, 2014, 05:31:01 pm »
I like the idea. If its a goer would you help trawl through gen sport and find links to threads that could be moved across?

Yep, of course.

Offline houkura

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2014, 08:55:50 pm »
.......People are going to disagree with each other and it is going to lead arguments which is the point of a football forum......


Is it? Not for me. For me a forum is a place for the discussion between people of like interests. Arguments are only a symptom of forums. Discussion is the key. People should be able to discuss a topic even if they disagree. Arguing is what ruins a forum.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2014, 09:43:19 pm »

Is it? Not for me. For me a forum is a place for the discussion between people of like interests. Arguments are only a symptom of forums. Discussion is the key. People should be able to discuss a topic even if they disagree. Arguing is what ruins a forum.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2014, 09:57:25 pm »
I can see the idea here, I really can.

However, already I've found occasions where there isn't a suitable thread to discuss something about a player.

For example, Sturridge wins the player of the month, does that get a new thread?  If it does, then won't that become deaf cot the Sturridge thread. 
Imagine if Skrtel bites a player on international duty (unlikely I know) where does that go?

Maybe these issues will solve themselves and new types of thread will evolve, but I can't help but think there just won't be threads to discuss some relevant issues.

Still, let's give it a try
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2014, 10:03:33 pm »
We're expecting that relevant threads will be created by users and it will happen naturally.
As for player of the month, how's that a discussion point other than people just saying well done, good news, well deserved etc?

Players will be discussed, we want them to be, but something had to give and that something was specific player threads.

Remember too that registration is closed and that this is only a trial. It might well be that we allow them back in a while.

Offline John C

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2014, 12:31:31 am »

However, already I've found occasions where there isn't a suitable thread to discuss something about a player.
Although it hasn't happened, probably because people are terrified that if they open a thread they'll wake up in the middle of the night in the dark with Michael & Hinesy just standing looking at them menacingly, we expected more threads to emerge about player matters. So the example of Sturridge wining player of the month would be topical.  A thread would be created, it would include everything about how he's achieved it with both agreements and disagreements. Then it would either become irrelevant and fade in to obscurity or more likely it would descend in to the circular crap and get locked having had its 15 days of glory in the quiet world of RAWK. Then we'd start again accordingly.

However, the said thread would be observed more closely by the Mods, we'd delete some of the random posts that maybe you wouldn't even notice in a typical 40-post per page player thread that accumulates 50 or more pages of irrelevance.

I think that will be how it works. There are of course many other examples of why a thread could start, but if they are crap it will be locked and the OP warned - and that's not being heavy handed, it to prevent attention seekers and banal threads.

So the message is, find something good to discuss or click about somewhere else.

Hope that helps mate, as James says it very early days and we, the Mods, honestly haven't got a template for the ideal outcome for discussing players. But what was clear is that they were unfollowable and too far opinionated.

BTW, I still think Lovren should have got motm 3 times this season although apparently "he's just not good enough" :D



« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 12:33:48 am by John C »

Offline Gerrard#1

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2014, 05:38:15 am »
How are we meant to follow loaned players like Origi?  Can we at least unlock that thread?
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2014, 06:32:56 am »
Is it? Not for me. For me a forum is a place for the discussion between people of like interests. Arguments are only a symptom of forums. Discussion is the key. People should be able to discuss a topic even if they disagree. Arguing is what ruins a forum.

So, unless this has been primarily the effect of the international break (a very plausible explanation that I am not discounting), exactly how much actual proper discussion has taken place in the main forum since 'the change' (TM: GrkStav)?  :wave
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Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2014, 09:10:57 am »
Just wanted to say the main forum is so much more readable after the player threads were locked. Great decision and I hope we never go back.

Sick and tired reading exaggerated bollocks about X player not good enough and Y player being an incarnation of Pele.

Good fucking riddance.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2014, 11:35:51 am »
Just wanted to say the main forum is so much more readable after the player threads were locked. Great decision and I hope we never go back.

Sick and tired reading exaggerated bollocks about X player not good enough and Y player being an incarnation of Pele.

Good fucking riddance.
Mostly agree.  Most forums don't have many player threads.  Would like a thread for the captain though
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2014, 11:42:52 am »
Would like a thread for the captain though
I'd like one too, but I fear it would descend into the usual arguments very quickly.

Offline stewy17

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #105 on: October 16, 2014, 11:46:59 am »
Could we not just have one with the sole purpose of heaping praise on him? Kind of like a RAWK Stevie G shrine where any naysayers are flogged with soggy echos??  ;D

It is 11 years since he wrested the arm band from big Sami and he is dead handsome and boss at footy.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #106 on: October 16, 2014, 11:52:05 am »
Could we not just have one with the sole purpose of heaping praise on him? Kind of like a RAWK Stevie G shrine where any naysayers are flogged with soggy echos??  ;D

It is 11 years since he wrested the arm band from big Sami and he is dead handsome and boss at footy.

We did.
Guess how it went though.
 :D

I even started a thread discussing the merits of the position he plays and whether Brendan sees it as a crucial role. Even asked numerous times not to make it about Gerrard.
Guess how it went though.
 :D
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Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #107 on: October 16, 2014, 11:54:12 am »
I'd like one too, but I fear it would descend into the usual arguments very quickly.

But that's debate! Is debate, arguing, agreeing, questioning, praising and critising? Yes, seems RAWK just wants posts to suit the 'no negativity' theme illustrated by mods.

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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #108 on: October 16, 2014, 12:00:55 pm »
But that's debate! Is debate, arguing, agreeing, questioning, praising and critising? Yes, seems RAWK just wants posts to suit the 'no negativity' theme illustrated by mods.
Not in the slightest. Some of the most tiresome posts in player threads are by those who can see no wrong in a player and refuse to accept any criticism of the player. Seriously, you're dead wrong on that.

Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #109 on: October 16, 2014, 12:10:10 pm »
But that's debate! Is debate, arguing, agreeing, questioning, praising and critising? Yes, seems RAWK just wants posts to suit the 'no negativity' theme illustrated by mods.

Debate is about making cogent well argued points and allow for proper rebuttal from people holding opposite views. Thats not what is happening in a majority of player threads. Instead we get an endless carousel of bullshit from posters who want to make sure the whole of RAWK knows that Skrtel is wank or Gerrard is past it. Then we get more posters coming into the thread and rebutting those views with equally senseless arguments.

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Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #110 on: October 16, 2014, 12:11:37 pm »
We are a right shower of bastards when we lose !!!!!! It applies online too!
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #111 on: October 16, 2014, 12:12:15 pm »
Myself, I just think this is overkill. Who ever heard of a football discussion forum without any topics for individual players, even your bona fide club legend of a captain? Can't really join the chorus of grateful applause for this, sorry fellas.

Even if you had to wade through some shite, it's unarguably more convenient to find something specific to a player in their own thread they currently had running, rather than a general squad position one, with multiple players as well as countless tangential topics inevitably being discussed by our hundreds to thousands of active members at any one time. Easier to make a mental note of and then recall seeing that boss highlights video or magic goal gif or whatever posted in the thread dedicated to the footballer in question, than one of probably several midfield/attack related threads. If you go to a general gif place to look for it, that's a full page of gifs loading on every one you check.

And what of being able to discuss individual Liverpool players from the past, and current players of other teams? The Lionel Messi thread, the recent George Best and Tommy Smith ones, all interesting and not congested at all. Much better to take a zero-tolerance policy with the culprits supposedly ruining the forum for everyone - maybe you should just take on a few more mods who will happily read through individual player threads and weed out the crap?

Plus, sharp posters putting raging idiots in their place is half the fun of this forum anyway.  ;D

Actually think this is a good idea.
A sub forum perhaps for individual player threads, treat it like a transfer window forum.
Could be a proving ground for new mods, and posters alike.
Keep the 'positional' threads on the main board.

Not sure if it's workable ? But perhaps worth a go.
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Offline plskikme

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #112 on: October 16, 2014, 02:57:07 pm »
I just want to chime in and maybe make a difference in any final decision be it a return or a new idea.

I've found myself wanting to see what the fanbase thought of particular players on international duty (ie Coutinho playing on a sandy pitch, general performances) and while it has long since become circular arguments, the first reactions on Sterling with England. More importantly, RAWK used to be a great filter for at least somewhat reliable news like the value of Sterling's new contract.

As of now not much new threads concerning specific news about specific players have sprouted up, and from what I've seen, the various midfield, defence, attack threads are barely used for player discussion and instead are about formation and team selection. Not a fan so far, but if more people end up starting relevant threads it could provide that platform for discussion (and news) that I feel is missing right now. It could be that most are reluctant to start threads themselves and nobody ends up doing anything.

Offline plskikme

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #113 on: October 16, 2014, 03:00:16 pm »
How are we meant to follow loaned players like Origi?  Can we at least unlock that thread?

There should be a loan watch thread similar to the youth thread. Is that an option? Funny, I always thought there was one.

Offline SP

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #114 on: October 16, 2014, 03:01:28 pm »
How are we meant to follow loaned players like Origi?  Can we at least unlock that thread?

The Origi topic was left deliberately unlocked for that reason. I'll have a nose.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #115 on: October 16, 2014, 03:02:08 pm »
There's been plenty of discussion about the Sterling situation, plskikme. It's been in the Hodgosaurus thread.


On people being worried about creating new threads - well why not a well written topic about injuries to our players sustained on international duty, with historic and current examples, sport science debates etc? You're very welcome to post one up.


Also don't forget there's been an international break on so it's a bit quiet anyway.

Offline SP

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #116 on: October 16, 2014, 03:04:02 pm »
The Origi topic was left deliberately unlocked for that reason. I'll have a nose.

That was locked because people were talking crap about other players. It has been cleaned up and unlocked.

Offline markedasred

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2014, 06:06:42 pm »
This was the salacious jezebel of sites when there were player threads, and I appreciate the cleanup work needed then. Look at the current hot topics this week though, how to get from Dover to Anfield and where to watch the game in Blackpool. I have had to start injecting speed directly in to my eyeball to liven up the read. How about just banning the incessantly negative posters, and limiting posting rights for newbies?
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Offline Samie

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #118 on: October 17, 2014, 06:09:03 pm »
i've suggested a players thread like the one we have for the Youth/Reserve's but no feedback for it.

Is that a no go mods? it would be easier to control the shite as that will get posted as well. As it will be confined to one single thread.

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Re: Individual Player Topics
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2014, 07:13:09 am »
i've suggested a players thread like the one we have for the Youth/Reserve's but no feedback for it.

Is that a no go mods? it would be easier to control the shite as that will get posted as well. As it will be confined to one single thread.

It will be one helluva thread to moderate though. It will expand at an exponential rate and there will be hundreds of active micro conversations and tussles between posters in the thread, about half dozen or more players. Imagine trying to glean any nuggets in a sea of crap, which that thread certainly will be.

And it will keep getting bumped to the top because it will the most active thread in the main forum, with the least worthwhile 'contributions'.

Phuk yoo