Author Topic: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers  (Read 17263 times)

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2011, 11:00:59 pm »
That´s what it looks like when a players tries to perform above his abilites ;)

I am a sucker for 'effort', I suppose. I don't think Adam is a great footballer; he's quite good, has a killer long-ball and he can shoot quite well, even with his weaker foot. And he's TRYING to become better at defending, shielding, covering, and at the smart, short-distance passing side of a well-rounded central midfielder. A for effort.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2011, 11:19:45 pm »
I am a sucker for 'effort', I suppose. I don't think Adam is a great footballer; he's quite good, has a killer long-ball and he can shoot quite well, even with his weaker foot. And he's TRYING to become better at defending, shielding, covering, and at the smart, short-distance passing side of a well-rounded central midfielder. A for effort.

To me, his overall movement, game intelligence is where he improved the most. It´s quite a remarkable difference to the beginning of the season and I think that if he manages to concentrate on working for the team in a way similiar to Lucas without trying to make the "special pass all time, he actually could handle the center much better. Besides that, it would save him a lot of energy in order to make it through the entire 90 minutes. He actually did it already this way but always falls back into old habbits of trying to run the show in a Gerrard-way...

« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 11:21:48 pm by steveeastend »
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #82 on: December 29, 2011, 11:22:30 pm »
So what happened to Adam's much vaunted set piece work, then? Remember, what Slur Guson said he was worth 10m alone for?

That is troubling me.

Offline 1021

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #83 on: December 29, 2011, 11:25:52 pm »
So what happened to Adam's much vaunted set piece work, then? Remember, what Slur Guson said he was worth 10m alone for?

That is troubling me.

I'm starting to believe that in signing for Liverpool your ability to take corner kicks is lost.
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Offline Discipline

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #84 on: December 29, 2011, 11:37:01 pm »
I'm starting to believe that in signing for Liverpool your ability to take corner kicks is lost.

Bellers corners are alright.  :P
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2011, 12:56:21 am »
I'm starting to believe that in signing for Liverpool your ability to take penalties and corner kicks is lost.

Added a bit for you.
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Offline Aristotle

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #86 on: December 30, 2011, 01:10:27 am »
I'm starting to believe that in signing for Liverpool your ability to take corner kicks is lost.

So we should sign someone who can't take them for shit, then we'll become impossible to stop in set pieces! ;D
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Offline Discipline

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #87 on: December 30, 2011, 03:56:56 am »
So we should sign someone who can't take them for shit, then we'll become impossible to stop in set pieces! ;D

Carragher!

:P
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Offline DanA

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2011, 06:04:52 am »
I am a sucker for 'effort', I suppose. I don't think Adam is a great footballer; he's quite good, has a killer long-ball and he can shoot quite well, even with his weaker foot. And he's TRYING to become better at defending, shielding, covering, and at the smart, short-distance passing side of a well-rounded central midfielder. A for effort.

I'm a bit the same. I tend to defend Adam because I can see the work he's put in. He's dropped weight, improved his positioning and work rate, tempered the Hollywood passes work on his defensive game. I reckon the improvement is as clear as day to see. Unfortunately it's come at a cost.

His set pieces have dropped in quality and he's not getting forward as much. I reckon he'd have been spending a heap of time at Blackpool working his set pieces because that's what they needed. Perhaps now though, where asking him to bring his game up and it's come at a cost.

Set pieces are one of those things where if you're not practicing day in day out you lose the feel a little bit. It think it will come back when the rest of his game is up to scratch and he can afford to spend more time on it.


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Offline kasperoff

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #89 on: December 30, 2011, 11:45:37 am »
It's been said on the opening page, but we need marked improvements in players getting on the end of great balls played along the ground in the 18 yard box. I've lost count of the number of times we've worked the ball up to the by line and rolled the ball into the area, only for it to carry on rolling right out of the other side. Now this raises a couple of points in itself.

Firstly, its making players like Henderson and Downing look bad. If half of the chances Downing created this season had been finished, then we'd be a hell of a lot better off and he'd not be getting half the stick he is at the moment.

Second, I've seen plenty of this type of chance go begging when Andy Carroll has been on the pitch, and this should really be his hunting ground. Many times he's just been a yard off the pace. Despite him looking leaner, he's still playing on his heals and doen't seem to be anticipating when the ball is gonna end up. The chances he's had have been hit right at him.
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Offline Garcepticon

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2011, 01:20:46 pm »
I've been to a few matches this season and I've noticed one issue that has been significantly evident recently.  It's how we attack.

The main players who create our attacks are  Enrique, Downing, Johnson, Bellamy  and Maxi.  Now apart from Maxi, all these players attack down the wings.  Adam and Henderson spread the ball out wide, and once the widemen get the ball they head off mainly in a  straight line forward quite close the the side line.  It's kind of like a U formation.  Once they get toward the by-line they hoist in cross after cross after cross.  Not much is being done with these crosses because it's a style of play that doesn't really suit our main goal scorers, Suare and Maxi, especially with Carroll out the team.  Plus it's all very one-dimensional.

It's also apparant that since Lucas has been injured, even less of our attacking passes go though the centre.  Lucas would provide Suarez with a consistent supply of what AVB calls 'vertical passes',  passes that go stright forward in to feet.  Suarez thrives on these passes.  Currently only Maxi  plays these regularly, and it helps explain why Maxi and Luis have such a good understanding.. 

So our attacks have become predictable.  Adam and Henderson will get the ball, they'll play it wide to the FB's and wingers, who will attack at full speed down the wing.  Yet Suarez would much rather have passes that involve him in the middle third of the pitch (width ways) such as the vertical passes in and around the edge of the penalty box, or in behind that set him away behind the defence.    Look at Adam's chalkboard and you can see he plays way too many 'lateral' passes rather than direct vertical ones.  We are left with a vacuum in the middle of the U formation we attack with.  If Carroll isn't in the team we need to adapt our style of attack.  If he is, the crosses need to be better and some sort of system developed to help integrate him in to the team.

Couldn't agree more, a related problem is that Adam and Henderson are sitting next to each other and both sitting deep. With Lucas in the team Adam could get forward but at the minute no one is taking control in midfield and as a pairing they lack intelligence, neither makes enough runs. Gerrard came on and immediately made a difference with vertical passes and more importantly he would run into the space that his passes created or he moved to created room and offer an option.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2011, 01:53:12 pm »
can I just ask the magii who believe we need to change our style of play or the personnel how do they explain that we have created more clear cut chances than any other team if our style of play is at fault?

we have the best defensive record in the league, we conceed the fewest chances or had last time I checked.

are the stats faulty, misleading?

our chance conversion is the poorest in the league are people actually saying that there's a glitch, that our chances are somehow different than the other 19 teams in the league?

or are they saying that our players aren't as good as the players in the other 19 teams?

hard as it is to accept in this age of analysing every game to the nth degree sometimes you just have to sit back and look at the bigger picture

we've deserved to lose just one game this season - we could, some would argue should have won every other game on the balance of play - thats not the same for every other side before somebody chips in with that - they could say it but the facts wouldn't back them up. So rather than trying to read bird sign or the portents in the weather why not just suck it up and accept we've been unusually unlucky - 4 missed pens from 4 different takers, 17 times against the woodwork, half a dozen keepers getting MOTM - the second half of the season could be a blast - Kenny might even score.



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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2011, 05:54:59 pm »
To me, his overall movement, game intelligence is where he improved the most. It´s quite a remarkable difference to the beginning of the season and I think that if he manages to concentrate on working for the team in a way similiar to Lucas without trying to make the "special pass all time, he actually could handle the center much better. Besides that, it would save him a lot of energy in order to make it through the entire 90 minutes. He actually did it already this way but always falls back into old habbits of trying to run the show in a Gerrard-way...

Yes, he's improved in those areas, clearly so. Having said that, young Henderson is already better at him in those areas.

In his defense, and based on my own past experience, all this hard work he's obviously been doing on the physical fitness side seems, as often happens, to have temporarily worsened his body coordination, his balance. I likened his most cringe-worthy moments to the movement of an eager-to-please, slightly drunk man who's trying to give it 110% percent. One can see the effort and the intent, but the result is a bit awkward, to say the least.

I am sure the sports science experts at our club are working hard with Charlie to improve his balance and co-ordination, given his newly developed increased "svelte-ness'. :-)
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2011, 05:57:40 pm »
can I just ask the magii who believe we need to change our style of play or the personnel how do they explain that we have created more clear cut chances than any other team if our style of play is at fault?

we have the best defensive record in the league, we conceed the fewest chances or had last time I checked.

are the stats faulty, misleading?

our chance conversion is the poorest in the league are people actually saying that there's a glitch, that our chances are somehow different than the other 19 teams in the league?

or are they saying that our players aren't as good as the players in the other 19 teams?

hard as it is to accept in this age of analysing every game to the nth degree sometimes you just have to sit back and look at the bigger picture

we've deserved to lose just one game this season - we could, some would argue should have won every other game on the balance of play - thats not the same for every other side before somebody chips in with that - they could say it but the facts wouldn't back them up. So rather than trying to read bird sign or the portents in the weather why not just suck it up and accept we've been unusually unlucky - 4 missed pens from 4 different takers, 17 times against the woodwork, half a dozen keepers getting MOTM - the second half of the season could be a blast - Kenny might even score.

This! Most other teams would "kill" to be able to create as many bona fide goal-scoring chances combined with our solid defensive record. Our luck has been diabolically bad. In a more religious (or superstitious, if you prefer) context/country, a priest/shaman would be called in to bless/cleanse the club, ground, etc.
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Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2011, 06:20:01 pm »
can I just ask the magii who believe we need to change our style of play or the personnel how do they explain that we have created more clear cut chances than any other team if our style of play is at fault?

we have the best defensive record in the league, we conceed the fewest chances or had last time I checked.

are the stats faulty, misleading?

our chance conversion is the poorest in the league are people actually saying that there's a glitch, that our chances are somehow different than the other 19 teams in the league?

or are they saying that our players aren't as good as the players in the other 19 teams?

hard as it is to accept in this age of analysing every game to the nth degree sometimes you just have to sit back and look at the bigger picture

we've deserved to lose just one game this season - we could, some would argue should have won every other game on the balance of play - thats not the same for every other side before somebody chips in with that - they could say it but the facts wouldn't back them up. So rather than trying to read bird sign or the portents in the weather why not just suck it up and accept we've been unusually unlucky - 4 missed pens from 4 different takers, 17 times against the woodwork, half a dozen keepers getting MOTM - the second half of the season could be a blast - Kenny might even score.




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Offline locultom

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2011, 06:31:54 pm »
can I just ask the magii who believe we need to change our style of play or the personnel how do they explain that we have created more clear cut chances than any other team if our style of play is at fault?

we have the best defensive record in the league, we conceed the fewest chances or had last time I checked.

are the stats faulty, misleading?

our chance conversion is the poorest in the league are people actually saying that there's a glitch, that our chances are somehow different than the other 19 teams in the league?

or are they saying that our players aren't as good as the players in the other 19 teams?

hard as it is to accept in this age of analysing every game to the nth degree sometimes you just have to sit back and look at the bigger picture

we've deserved to lose just one game this season - we could, some would argue should have won every other game on the balance of play - thats not the same for every other side before somebody chips in with that - they could say it but the facts wouldn't back them up. So rather than trying to read bird sign or the portents in the weather why not just suck it up and accept we've been unusually unlucky - 4 missed pens from 4 different takers, 17 times against the woodwork, half a dozen keepers getting MOTM - the second half of the season could be a blast - Kenny might even score.





Yeah of course you can ask.....most decent posts do provide answers to your question though. Maybe just read a little.

I don't see why we have to polarise positions all the time. Yes we have definitely been unlucky in some games, profligate in some games, poor in some games and excellent in some games.

We could continue with no adjustments and it may come good. We could look to add players. We could change the shape a little. It's all a matter of opinion.

I don't think we are far off but I think we need to add to the squad and improve the quality of our positioning and finishing.

OK?
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Offline RedinExile

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2011, 06:35:23 pm »
can I just ask the magii who believe we need to change our style of play or the personnel how do they explain that we have created more clear cut chances than any other team if our style of play is at fault?

our chance conversion is the poorest in the league are people actually saying that there's a glitch, that our chances are somehow different than the other 19 teams in the league?

or are they saying that our players aren't as good as the players in the other 19 teams?

hard as it is to accept in this age of analysing every game to the nth degree sometimes you just have to sit back and look at the bigger picture

So rather than trying to read bird sign or the portents in the weather why not just suck it up and accept we've been unusually unlucky - 4 missed pens from 4 different takers, 17 times against the woodwork, half a dozen keepers getting MOTM - the second half of the season could be a blast - Kenny might even score.
It's a bit patronising that mate to be honest, although I understand where you're coming from up to a point. If you're going to whip cross after cross after cross into the box and not convert these chances into goals either; a) you're exceptionally unlucky, b) the forwards can't convert the crosses/don't play their goal game based on balls played in from out wide and/or c) the balls into the box haven't, enough times, been good enough.

You think it's only a)?

Hopefully we will wallop the Toon tonight from a hat-trick of headers from out wide, but I remain to be convinced we have the players, or if we do how ready they are at the moment, to routinely convert chances out wide if we only play with the plan A so evident at Blackburn. We need to mix it up a bit more tactically.

It's not over-analysing I don't think, question marks are there and it's ok to discuss it on a forum for er...discussion; hopefully these can be answered tonight and we'll both be made up:)
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Offline neopulian

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2011, 06:40:23 pm »
This is a Round Table thread, which means we try to make a bit of an effort. So, if you want to call someone else's post "nonsense", it's considered good form to try to support that with some, er, thought.

When the nonsense is blatantly recycled cliches, it's fair to call them as such.

The whole idea of making a victim of Carroll, blaming the others were too lazy to do anything more creative than launching useless long balls at his head -- is not just dishonest, as in not recognize white as white and black and black, but brazenly dishonest, calling white as black and black as white. Did he even watch the game or just launched the automatic mode "I assume this was how the match happened" button?

Offline dnkw

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #98 on: December 30, 2011, 06:49:37 pm »
When the nonsense is blatantly recycled cliches, it's fair to call them as such.

The whole idea of making a victim of Carroll, blaming the others were too lazy to do anything more creative than launching useless long balls at his head -- is not just dishonest, as in not recognize white as white and black and black, but brazenly dishonest, calling white as black and black as white. Did he even watch the game or just launched the automatic mode "I assume this was how the match happened" button?

How do you see, it, Neopulian (not having a dig, genuinely interested)?

Offline neopulian

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 1-1 Blackburn Rovers
« Reply #99 on: December 30, 2011, 07:46:12 pm »
How do you see, it, Neopulian (not having a dig, genuinely interested)?

In short, Carroll did not do his job well. He's the battle-ram type of player and his presence largely wasn't felt. Took him almost an hour to win his first header, gave up on too many plays, and kept hiding in midfield. His lack of movement, poor positioning, and refusal to challenge for headers were quite maddening at times.

IMHO, we'd be much more effective if Carroll just goal hang (mindful of offside, of courses), and play Adam further upfield. Adam offers litte as a DM (doesn't cover well, quite terrible at tackling) but as an AM, he's pretty good.