Topic: Round Table: Pelé Granny´s Man City 1 - Klopp´s Liverpool 4

[rickardinho1]

Boredom? Hunger?

You'd have to be a psychopath to skin a cat out of boredom. And it would have to be the last edible thing available under starvation to do it for hunger, and even then it would be frowned upon

[TepidT2O]

I would love to contribute to this thread....

But I can only do so by congratulating people on the scintillating writing...

Baba,yorky, 92A ... I salute you!

The only thing I can add is pedantry by reminding everyone that Malala was Ł42m. ....


What a thread...

Cheers everyone

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

The only thing I can add is pedantry by reminding everyone that Malala was Ł42m. ....

As my wife would say, O to the M to the G. Just when I thought it couldn't get any funnier.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Of all the players enjoying a renaissance under Klopp I think I'm personally taking the most pleasure in Lucas. That snidey shithouse of a yellow card he took for pulling back aguero in the first half, and the way he complained vociferously afterwards 'it's my first one'. I love that. I love shithousery. I love a team with snide players who excel in the dark arts. I love to see the piss boiling in the opposition team and fans. I love that even our own fans might get frustated with a 'silly' free kick on the half way line that Lucas has conceded to stop them playing - people don't appreciate that snide shithousery like that is just as valuable as a good through ball or a shot on goal. I love defensive midfielders generally, I loved Mascherano and Sissoko when they were here, and didi too. I like players that stop players playing, there's real craft and art to it and Lucas is showing - again - he's a master of it on his day. He's playing as well as back in 2011 under Kenny. But now he's a leader and the most experienced member of the team. So here's to deliberately 'it was clumsy not dirty' tackles. Here's to 'he dived I didn't run into him' shouts. Here's to stopping them before they get started. Here's to Lucas Leiva.

This is fucking brilliant. Couldn't agree more.

Great stuff, as always, from the Yorky one, too.

To answer Babu's questions:

Kolo Touré - our new DM?

Hehe. Think he was brought on more to cope with anything in the air, although let’s be honest. The game was bed to put well before the big man’s introduction. Maybe Kolo just wanted to test the surface of his old stomping ground?

Lovren - his best performance for us?

It was an assured performance by the big man. Conversely, I think his best performance came for us against City last year at Anfield. He had some good games away against West Brom and Hull, respectively and although the team play poorly on both occasions, he was one of the shining lights on both occasions.

Is Emre Can starting to play like the midfielder we need?

It was definitely his best performance in a red shirt. A proper commanding midfield performance. His positioning is helped by Lucas, but his use of the ball was a facet which he has lacked in previous games. That back-heel was sublime. It’s important for our midfield to use the ball when they have they are back to goal, simply because of the movement of our front three. This can be so effective and it’s good to see Can utilising his abilities, because let’s be honest, for a 21-year-old, he has bundles of it.

Henderson - where?

I see him coming in for Milner, although let’s not count our chickens with injuries and so forth. He’ll be back in the starting 11 soon enough one way or another. His energy is infection and the way we play under Klopp, I can just envisage Henderson marauding into the box in complete and utter fury. Lallana is un-droppable at the moment while Can can only exude more confidence from his performance at the Etihad, as outlined above.

Lallana - He was MOTM for me. Is his output still a worry for you?

Very close. I couldn’t go past Firmino for MotM, though. It was one of the great false nine displays in a red shirt for mine.

Back to Lallana. I was made-up when we signed him. Still am and it’s quite ironic that his input in the goals and assist column have somewhat dried up since Klopp has arrived, given that Adam’s performance levels are at their height since he arrived last season.

It’s the Dirk Kuyt theory for me. Like Kuyt did with Torres (the latter recognising this publicly, too), the space Lallana creates for the likes of Phil and Bob is far more important
than his output of goals. His performances are more built on the framework and emphasis on the “team”, as opposed to individually. It’s no coincidence Lallana’s performances are centred around this notion, given Klopp’s own philosophies are built around this facet of the game itself.

Given Lallana is a one in four player, I think the goals will inevitably come, however I think his appearance on the pitch will open things up to the point where Firmino will score a lot more, thanks to the work done off the ball from the man in question.

How did you celebrate the 3rd?

Like the preceding two. I slid on the Persian rug, once again disturbing the cat subsequently suffering from carpet burn (that sounded wrong, didn’t it?). Would I change a thing? Would I fuck!


As always I posted some rambling and ratings on my blog for those interested and haven't already read.

http://simongkirk.blogspot.com/2015/11/player-ratings-manchester-city-fc-vs.html

[Giono]

I saw Jamie Carragher's analysis and thought he was exaggerating the difference between Lucas v Man City and the Lucas we always see. He's never been one for 'sitting' in front of his defence and 'waiting for a player to come on to him'. In fact, ever since Benitez was here, his game has been about anticipation and getting a toe to the ball before his midfield opponent can turn on it. That's another definition of 'pressing' if you like. It's possibly true that he was doing this in slightly more advanced areas v Man City, but maybe not. I've certainly see Lucas follow his man into the other half of the pitch before if he thinks it's necessary. The classic example would be Lucas pressing the Napoli player and Gerrard mopping up the loose ball and scoring.

I get your point and agree to a degree. Lucas came to us as a box to box midfielder and became a DM under Rafa. His instincts are not to sit deep all the time.

But under Rodgers he started to resemble a third CD sometimes during the period when Rodgers favoured counter attacking. Even in 2013-14 we'd press (forage really) in the first half then invite them onto us to hit them on the counter.


Thankfully for Lucas he has a manager that suits him perfectly. Lucas has taken so quickly to the new tactics because they are so natural to him. Like you say, he has been doing this type of midfield pressing on his own. A fish in water.


That was the thing that was so remarkable about our performance against City, it was how we pressed their midfield. knowing that we will eventually be better at it than that, and knowing that Hendo will be joining in that midfield press...well I doubt Man City will be looking forward to the rematch at Anfield.

[Henry Kissinger]

Kolo Touré - our new DM?

Stop being mischievous! Kolo will always be like your favourite uncle who frequently makes you laugh but after a few drinks is a bit of a tit. In a nice, clumsy, bumbling kind of way though.

Lovren - his best performance for us?

Not sure I'd say it was his best as I thought he looked quite assured at the start of this season, but he's certainly regained his confidence. He's obviously benefiting - like the rest of our defense - from Klopp's demands of hard work, training, and knowing your positions throughout the game. I thought his comments here were interesting: “I think it is much easier to defend now because we are working much harder than before,” said Lovren. “We are, I would say, playing like a team now with everyone feeling comfortable. It is always easier when a manager has belief in your team and in yourself. It makes it much easier to play and gives you the confidence that, even if you make a mistake, afterwards he will talk to you and explain to you the wrong things and the good things.”


Is Emre Can starting to play like the midfielder we need?

Depends on what kind of midfielder you think we need. A lot of posters in here feel we need a destroyer or deep lying playmaker or a creative midfielder. I don't think Can falls into any of those categories to be honest. To my eyes, he looks like a German version of Henderson. Loads of energy, an eye for goal but will get better as he gets older, and with technical abilities that fans other than ourselves don't see.

Henderson - where?

Emre's position as he's ahead of him in terms of experience and development.

Lallana - He was MOTM for me. Is his output still a worry for you?

No I'm not worried about him at all. You can see the constant gradual improvement in his game over the last three or four weeks. Whether this is down to him being fully recovered from his injuries or due to the positions and runs that Klopp is asking of him I'm not sure. He sometimes looked a bit of a luxury in the side, but now he looks integral. His link up play and understanding with Coutinho, Firmino and Benteke bodes well for the future.

How did you celebrate the 3rd?

Like a few on here - waiting for the ref to rule it offside. I've watched the game numerous times, and it still looks like the ball goes forward even though Firmino is in line with the last defender.

That Sterling miss - schadenfreude at it´s finest?

Brought a smile but that's about all. I didn't want them to score a second as I felt 4-2 wouldn't have told the true story. The first half was just lovely to watch, to think we could have been five nil up even before Aguero scored! Then Pellegrini changed things slightly at half time and we weren't so dominant, yet still we had a number of opportunities to increase our lead while keeping them at arms length.

As others have mentioned, I know there are going to be a few more hiccups along the way this season but the highs I've experienced so far are making me giddy. Keeping your feet on the ground is bloody difficult when you see games like this one.

[RedMichelFerri]

I saw Jamie Carragher's analysis and thought he was exaggerating the difference between Lucas v Man City and the Lucas we always see. He's never been one for 'sitting' in front of his defence and 'waiting for a player to come on to him'. In fact, ever since Benitez was here, his game has been about anticipation and getting a toe to the ball before his midfield opponent can turn on it. That's another definition of 'pressing' if you like. It's possibly true that he was doing this in slightly more advanced areas v Man City, but maybe not. I've certainly see Lucas follow his man into the other half of the pitch before if he thinks it's necessary. The classic example would be Lucas pressing the Napoli player and Gerrard mopping up the loose ball and scoring.

Agree with Yorky here. Lucas always anticipates the things around him quickly and tackles (standing one not like monster ones) the player in a flash. Most of the time player doesn't even know he is onto him and he just tackles him as the player is in process of controlling the pass. I just love how he watches the game around anticipating his next victim and boom he is there. Its like watching big cats watching the deer herd and in a flash the attack is on.

I also think his passing is under appreciated. He zips them along ground taking out many members of opposition team. These kind of passes are dream when you have players like Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana and Sturridge getting on them. Alonso had amazing ability to pick long passes but I always loved his forward passes zipped along the ground taking out more than one opposition players out. Since Alonso left, I only saw Lucas to make them in midfield and now Big Mama from the back.