Author Topic: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership  (Read 346719 times)

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1800 on: March 5, 2012, 01:10:20 pm »
That's just a straw man argument as far as I can see. All the facts suggest is that even if we are to assume Carragher has no influence, Kenny has, at best, a blind spot when it comes to starting him, just as he does (in a different way) to Adam. Every manager, even the best have them.

Straw man? The argument being made is that Kenny shouldn't be picking Carragher because Carragher is crap. Saying thats a bigger idictment of Kenny than Carragher isn't a straw man argument at all, its not misrepresenting your position is it? You believe Kenny is wrong and you are right? Taking Al's example takes Kenny beyond wrong and into incompetent.

My argument has been and continues to be the manager see's more and knows more information than me so his judgement should be better than mine. That doesn't mean he wont make mistakes but there should be less chnace of it - here he's been accused  of consistently making the same mistake, along with other managers. I've suggested that maybe there are other considerations, other things to consider in team selection that go beyond performance in 90 minutes, things we dont know apparently you dont think so. I can live with that.


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Offline Camarero25

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1801 on: March 5, 2012, 01:17:47 pm »
It's honestly gotten to the point now where Carra's performances are starting to tarnish his legacy, for me. Thank fuck we finally got to see the Agger/ Skrtel partnership this season or else we'd be in deep shit, what with our lack of goals.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1802 on: March 5, 2012, 01:18:17 pm »
That was the whole point of the example wasn't it?  How would you and your manager feel about your defending if taken apart by Kuyt in training? Picked apart by Suarez you'd probably just have a wry smile on your face and be thankful he was in your team.

The examples quoted were supposed to be examples of things none of us know anything about - are some of you seriously suggesting you do know and are somehow better equipped to judge because you've seen a lad play on tv and a couple of games for us?

Also for the record I'm not mounting a defence of Carragher - its a defence of the team selection process and the manager - this thread says more about Dalglish and his team selection more than any player - Dalglish picks the team - if Carragher's been in it then its Kenny's responsibility , if he's picked above Coates thats Dalglish's choice, the more criticsim thats heaped upon Carragher the more insulting of Dalglish's judgement it becomes - you may as well label the thread Dalglish doesn't know what he's doing and be done with it.  If the manager genuinely can't spot the types of things you are suggesting and they are so glaringly obvious then whats he doing? If his judgement really is so poor that would make him a liability more so than Carra wouldn't it?

I think it is common knowledge that Kuyt and Maxi are likely to be on their way in the summer so there really isn't an ongoing problem if Kenny leaves them out. Carragher on the other hand is in the same boat as Gerrard someone who Fenway want to keep at the Club in the long term. That is a completely different ball game to leaving out someone who you have the power to get shut off.

It's the sort of problem a succession of managers faced with Shearer at Newcastle, with Raul at Madrid and now with the likes of Lampard and Terry at Chelsea. If you want examples closer to home then Houllier was doing remarkably well at Liverpool had won a treble, had finished above United and was extremely popular until Thompson and Fowler had their bust up. The same with Benitez he won a Champions League, an FA Cup and had just finished Runners up with 86 points all that changed the moment he mildly criticised the Senior players three games into the next season.

You take on the fans favourites at your peril the only one who has managed it in recent years has been Ferguson at United with Keane and that was on the back of unparalleled success at United. Even Moyes who has Kenwright secured in his back pocket had to apologise to the squad and commit to changing his ways after his fall out with Duncan Ferguson.

Quite simply for me Kenny is much better off giving Carra enough rope to hang himself with his performances. The biggest problem for me with the greatest respect is that whenever the end is nigh for Carra people like you come along and give his career the kiss of life by making up frankly ridiculous excuses for his mistakes and by blaming everything under the sun to excuse Jamie from responsibility for anything.

It saddens me to say this but I cannot see Jamie changing the habit of a lifetime and quitting, I can't see Kenny pulling the trigger and sadly the only thing that will bring things to a head is when the crowd turn on Jamie. That is no way for the career of a great servant to end but unless things change that is what is going to happen.
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Offline richiedouglas

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1803 on: March 5, 2012, 01:18:36 pm »
My only hope is that with a game on Sat and Tues next week it might be seen to be too much for Carra. He'll almost certainly play the derby so we might see Coates against Sunderland.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1804 on: March 5, 2012, 01:20:25 pm »
Kyrgiakos didn't seem the type to get into arguments though, despite his physique. I get the impression that Enrique would have a lower threshold when being screamed at by his teammates.
Yep I agree although I recall Carragher very quickly turned his invective in a more general direction (at Johnson even) after realising it was Soto. As for thresholds, Arbeloa didn't exactly take that abuse like a shrinking violet did he? I just think if the switch is to do with covering FBs, it would make sense for Carragher to prefer Johnson there, more comfortable in lots of ways.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1805 on: March 5, 2012, 01:24:05 pm »
Yep I agree although I recall Carragher very quickly turned his invective in a more general direction (at Johnson even) after realising it was Soto. As for thresholds, Arbeloa didn't exactly take that abuse like a shrinking violet did he? I just think if the switch is to do with covering FBs, it would make sense for Carragher to prefer Johnson there, more comfortable in lots of ways.

Yeah good point about Arbeloa's response. I'm guessing that shocked also Carragher.
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1806 on: March 5, 2012, 01:25:33 pm »
It saddens me to say this but I cannot see Jamie changing the habit of a lifetime and quitting, I can't see Kenny pulling the trigger and sadly the only thing that will bring things to a head is when the crowd turn on Jamie. That is no way for the career of a great servant to end but unless things change that is what is going to happen.
You think that will happen? There'll be murmurings of course, but outright calls? I can't see it myself. I think Dalglish will (eventually) spare him the loss of dignity. Question being at what point and at what cost?
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Offline Rohit

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1807 on: March 5, 2012, 01:28:09 pm »
Yeah good point about Arbeloa's response. I'm guessing that shocked also Carragher.

It also hurt carra one way. Arbeloa was never that adventurous and didn't leave jamie with alot of cover to do. With johnson who was essentially an attacking outlet it meant jamie had to do more cover and was more isolated and his weaknesses were shown.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1808 on: March 5, 2012, 01:29:39 pm »
Yeah good point about Arbeloa's response. I'm guessing that shocked also Carragher.
I think it - Arby's response - is actually what inflamed the confrontation from ritual FB abuse into a proper scrap. As if Carragher thought, "who does this fucker think he is, talking back to me?" and lost his rag. Always had massive respect for Captain Alonso stepping in and putting Carragher right. A nice warm send off for both departing Spaniards eh? ;D
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1809 on: March 5, 2012, 01:37:20 pm »
It also hurt carra one way. Arbeloa was never that adventurous and didn't leave jamie with alot of cover to do. With johnson who was essentially an attacking outlet it meant jamie had to do more cover and was more isolated and his weaknesses were shown.

Yeah, that's true as well.

Yeah I think it - Arby's response - is actually what inflamed the confrontation from ritual FB abuse into a proper scrap. As if Carragher thought, "who does this fucker think he is, talking back to me?" and lost his rag. Always had massive respect for Captain Alonso stepping in and putting Carragher right. A nice warm send off for both departing Spaniards eh? ;D

I think that's what happened re: Carragher and Arbeloa. And Alonso did a similar thing when Mascherano got sent off at Old Trafford IIRC? Those foreigners have no passion eh?
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1810 on: March 5, 2012, 01:38:56 pm »
You think that will happen? There'll be murmurings of course, but outright calls? I can't see it myself. I think Dalglish will (eventually) spare him the loss of dignity. Question being at what point and at what cost?

Can Kenny afford to do it if Carragher is not prepared to accept it, Carra has 18 months left on his contract and is being groomed for a future role at the Club. Playing wise it might be a no brainer but politically can Kenny afford to have the sort of situation that done for Houllier and Benitez.

You only have to look at the reception Fowler got when he turned up at the game after being dropped by Houllier or the support that the Senior Players got from the fanbase when poison was being leaked from the dressing room to the press with frightening regularity in 09-10.

Look at Mourinho at Chelsea he had unbelievable success at Chelsea right up to the point where he started buying centre backs and fell out with Terry. I really am struggling  to think of a manager apart from Ferguson who has taken on a fans favourite and not suffered terminal collateral damage in the process. The days of a manager ruling the roost are long gone managers manage by consent these days. With Kuyt and Maxi seemingly on their way would you risk adding Carra to that list of disillusioned senior pro's.

Much smarter to keep playing Jamie let the mistakes continue and then sit him down in the summer and recommend that he takes up a Coaching role and becomes a bit part player on his terms.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1811 on: March 5, 2012, 01:39:48 pm »
How do you think Phil Jones is compared to Coates? Vastly superior, slightly better, similar?
If we had got Jones would you expect him to have featured ahead of Carragher as the 3rd choice?

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1812 on: March 5, 2012, 01:47:51 pm »
How do you think Phil Jones is compared to Coates? Vastly superior, slightly better, similar?
If we had got Jones would you expect him to have featured ahead of Carragher as the 3rd choice?

The difference for me is that Coates didn't come with the ridiculous English premium so cost £7m instead of £17m if Coates was English and cost £17m I think he would of played 15-20 games by now.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1813 on: March 5, 2012, 01:52:26 pm »
my wanting coates to play has nothing to do with thinking carra is a liability (I'll leave that arguement for others to decide). the reason why I want coates to play is the league as an event is over for us, we aren't get 4th and we don't need a top 5 finish so there is nothing to play for. we should take this oppertunity to give coates as much experience as possible because next season we have europe and we'd be mad to play agger (and maybe in skrtel) in these games, also add the CC and there is a whole host of games and a risk of injury to the first choice centre backs. we aren't going to get a better chance to give coates precious game time with relatively nothing to lose.

Offline Camarero25

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1814 on: March 5, 2012, 01:55:25 pm »
How do you think Phil Jones is compared to Coates? Vastly superior, slightly better, similar?
If we had got Jones would you expect him to have featured ahead of Carragher as the 3rd choice?

Phil Jones is a shocking defender. Good player mind, and he's got massive potential, but he can't defend at all. Coates on the other hand, seems to be very competent defensively, as shown by his Young Player of the Tournament award in the Copa.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1815 on: March 5, 2012, 01:59:59 pm »
Phil Jones is a shocking defender. Good player mind, and he's got massive potential, but he can't defend at all. Coates on the other hand, seems to be very competent defensively, as shown by his Young Player of the Tournament award in the Copa.
I'm assuming from that you'd play Jones or Coates over Carragher in this hypothetical scenario.
My question was aimed more at those posters who would (either for the Arsenal game, or future games) play Carragher over Coates.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1816 on: March 5, 2012, 02:00:12 pm »
I think it - Arby's response - is actually what inflamed the confrontation from ritual FB abuse into a proper scrap. As if Carragher thought, "who does this fucker think he is, talking back to me?" and lost his rag. Always had massive respect for Captain Alonso stepping in and putting Carragher right. A nice warm send off for both departing Spaniards eh? ;D
So you still hold it up against Gerrard for being miles up the other side of the pitch and not being able to get there as soon as Alonso then I see.

Offline Redeo

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1817 on: March 5, 2012, 02:01:55 pm »
That was the whole point of the example wasn't it?  How would you and your manager feel about your defending if taken apart by Kuyt in training? Picked apart by Suarez you'd probably just have a wry smile on your face and be thankful he was in your team.

The examples quoted were supposed to be examples of things none of us know anything about - are some of you seriously suggesting you do know and are somehow better equipped to judge because you've seen a lad play on tv and a couple of games for us?

Also for the record I'm not mounting a defence of Carragher - its a defence of the team selection process and the manager - this thread says more about Dalglish and his team selection more than any player - Dalglish picks the team - if Carragher's been in it then its Kenny's responsibility , if he's picked above Coates thats Dalglish's choice, the more criticsim thats heaped upon Carragher the more insulting of Dalglish's judgement it becomes - you may as well label the thread Dalglish doesn't know what he's doing and be done with it.  If the manager genuinely can't spot the types of things you are suggesting and they are so glaringly obvious then whats he doing? If his judgement really is so poor that would make him a liability more so than Carra wouldn't it?
Reading this is laughable.
What are you not going to invoke to defend Carra?
First, the classic 'none of us know shit argument', according to which you can't judge a player according to what he does on the pitch during games because you don't see him in training. This argument is empty and can be invoked to defend anyone. The reality is that Carra has been very poor this season and has single-handedly been at fault for many goals and cost us many points. The moment he got out of the team our defensive outlook so drastically improved. The case against him is so starkly obvious.

Then you go to invoke the name and legend of our manager to further shield Carra from criticism. So we can't judge Carra because we don't see him in training, and then we can't judge Carra because we are "insulting of Dalglish's judgement." Your arguments are near despicable. It is as if though you are Carragher himself.
It's a website mate. Names can't be named. If they were, there'd be mutiny. If they aren't, people will scream ... ask for proof. But you will never find 100% proof of anything on here. So, .. look at all evidence, weigh everything up and make a decision.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1818 on: March 5, 2012, 02:02:25 pm »
So you still hold it up against Gerrard for being miles up the other side of the pitch and not being able to get there as soon as Alonso then I see.
Not really, just stating Xabi did a captain's job in that situation, although can't imagine any other player putting Carragher in his box like that, Gerrard included. Still, it was noticeable that Gerrard didn't have a word with his mate afterwards, nor did Carragher apologise in the post-match interview, instead citing Pepe's GG record as justification.
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Offline Vulmea

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1819 on: March 5, 2012, 02:04:05 pm »
You take on the fans favourites at your peril the only one who has managed it in recent years has been Ferguson at United with Keane and that was on the back of unparalleled success at United.

Quite simply for me Kenny is much better off giving Carra enough rope to hang himself with his performances.

The biggest problem for me with the greatest respect is that whenever the end is nigh for Carra people like you come along and give his career the kiss of life by making up frankly ridiculous excuses for his mistakes and by blaming everything under the sun to excuse Jamie from responsibility for anything.


Fan favourite? Have you read this thread? :o Do you really think there would be an outcry if Carra wasn't picked? Has there been one with Agger and Skrtel playing?

Kenny is the LFC manager how is it better for him for Carra to play poorly and cost us games?

Making up excuses - what excuses are you on about? I dont remember making any. The only reason I've given is Kenny picks the team and he knows more than me, you and everybody on here combined when making his decisions.

Blaming who and what? I've given some examples of the kind of information we dont know. I haven't said its the reason why , I've said we dont know the reason why?

Yet you steadfastedly stick to the idea that you know better and you know why. You may be right. I just think you need to make allowance for teh fact you may be wrong.
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Offline Redeo

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1820 on: March 5, 2012, 02:04:32 pm »
Can Kenny afford to do it if Carragher is not prepared to accept it, Carra has 18 months left on his contract and is being groomed for a future role at the Club. Playing wise it might be a no brainer but politically can Kenny afford to have the sort of situation that done for Houllier and Benitez.
If this kind of thought actually crosses Dalglish's mind, then, as a club, we are fckd.
It's a website mate. Names can't be named. If they were, there'd be mutiny. If they aren't, people will scream ... ask for proof. But you will never find 100% proof of anything on here. So, .. look at all evidence, weigh everything up and make a decision.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1821 on: March 5, 2012, 02:06:54 pm »
If this kind of thought actually crosses Dalglish's mind, then, as a club, we are fckd.

It won't be, people are reading far too much into this call. He made it because presumably because he felt Jamie could do the job asked of him. The real evidence will be whether he starts the next game as a result. Which i firmly believe he won't.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1822 on: March 5, 2012, 02:09:10 pm »
Look at Mourinho at Chelsea he had unbelievable success at Chelsea right up to the point where he started buying centre backs and fell out with Terry. I really am struggling  to think of a manager apart from Ferguson who has taken on a fans favourite and not suffered terminal collateral damage in the process. The days of a manager ruling the roost are long gone managers manage by consent these days. With Kuyt and Maxi seemingly on their way would you risk adding Carra to that list of disillusioned senior pro's.

An even better example is Capello's second term with Real. They hadn't won a trophy since 2003, they had, on paper, the best team in the world. But Capello knew there was something wrong, he dealt with it head on, got things done and was fired for it. He dumped Beckham, who made the fewest appearances in his career that season. Ronaldo only played 6 games before being sold on. Players like Salgado, Helguera and Guti were demoted to squad rotation. New players of his mould like Diarra and Emerson came in and played a key role in their season.

Now this is Fabio Capello we're talking about here. A man who warrants almost unparralled respect and admiration, who isn't afraid of anyone, who deals with matters head on and who gets results. He won their first trophy in years, whose results against arch rivals Barcelona won them the league that year on head-to-head. Now despite all that, he was brought in to win the league, he did so on his first try and they sacked him for going against popular figures such as Beckham, Guti and Ronaldo.

Granted Kenny has much more pull with our support than Capello with Real. But it's still a clear case of what can happen when you go against the public opinion.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1823 on: March 5, 2012, 02:09:18 pm »
Not really, just stating Xabi did a captain's job in that situation, although can't imagine any other player putting Carragher in his box like that, Gerrard included. Still, it was noticeable that Gerrard didn't have a word with his mate afterwards, nor did Carragher apologise in the post-match interview, instead citing Pepe's GG record as justification.
Fair enough. He did have a word with Carra once he reached the sitaution though. Also had a word with the ref.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1824 on: March 5, 2012, 02:12:17 pm »
It won't be, people are reading far too much into this call. He made it because presumably because he felt Jamie could do the job asked of him. The real evidence will be whether he starts the next game as a result. Which i firmly believe he won't.

see i think the opposite, i believe carra will start against sunderland

its happened alreay this season were a player has been terrible only to start the next game

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1825 on: March 5, 2012, 02:13:33 pm »
There were similar justifications being offered when Carra was starting earlier in the season even when many of us thought he was a liability, yet he continued to be picked until injury intervened we were told by some that the defence would fall apart without him, in fact it never looked back.

If we don't think Coates is good enough its even more of a reason to have a look at him in a competitive match, because if he isn't we may need to buy in the summer (or look at Kelly there), whatever happens we cannot just carry on with Carra as first reserve who we know will get games due to Agger's injury issues, and we certainly can't assume its fine to go into next season in that position.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1826 on: March 5, 2012, 02:15:05 pm »
see i think the opposite, i believe carra will start against sunderland

its happened alreay this season were a player has been terrible only to start the next game

Mainly those who were bought by Dalglish though, i.e those who he feels he should give support and opportunity to grow into the squad. Players like Maxi, Kuyt and possibly Carra have been treated very different also considering the future of their roles at our club.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1827 on: March 5, 2012, 02:20:01 pm »
Mainly those who were bought by Dalglish though, i.e those who he feels he should give support and opportunity to grow into the squad. Players like Maxi, Kuyt and possibly Carra have been treated very different also considering the future of their roles at our club.

ye i suppose you could look at it like that, some good points there  :)

but i still see carra starting i just have that feeling that he will not be dropped  ;D
« Last Edit: March 5, 2012, 02:23:08 pm by ChristophLFC »

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1828 on: March 5, 2012, 02:41:20 pm »
An even better example is Capello's second term with Real. They hadn't won a trophy since 2003, they had, on paper, the best team in the world. But Capello knew there was something wrong, he dealt with it head on, got things done and was fired for it. He dumped Beckham, who made the fewest appearances in his career that season. Ronaldo only played 6 games before being sold on. Players like Salgado, Helguera and Guti were demoted to squad rotation. New players of his mould like Diarra and Emerson came in and played a key role in their season.

Now this is Fabio Capello we're talking about here. A man who warrants almost unparralled respect and admiration, who isn't afraid of anyone, who deals with matters head on and who gets results. He won their first trophy in years, whose results against arch rivals Barcelona won them the league that year on head-to-head. Now despite all that, he was brought in to win the league, he did so on his first try and they sacked him for going against popular figures such as Beckham, Guti and Ronaldo.

Granted Kenny has much more pull with our support than Capello with Real. But it's still a clear case of what can happen when you go against the public opinion.

I think it's why the really top managers like Shanks, Paisley, Stein, Ferguson and Clough have changed from empire builders to managers like Mourinho, Capello and Hiddink who spend three or four years tops at a Club and then move on before they have to call time on players careers and rebuild. Don't bother trying to keep hold of the dressing room just move on to another one.

It's noticeable that Mourinho learned his Chelsea lesson and insisted on the removal of Raul before he took the Madrid job. The perfect example for me is Newcastle where managers never stood a chance with Shearer casting a shadow over the Club and since he had his go and got them relegated they have gone from strength to strength.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1829 on: March 5, 2012, 02:43:44 pm »
If Carra played the 'political' game against Kenny he would lose. There is no name in the world that carries more respect amongst Liverpool supporters than Kenny's. Kenny knows this.

His team selection, whether you agree with it or not, is based on who he thinks can win the game for him, not on not wanting to piss anybody off.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1830 on: March 5, 2012, 02:49:28 pm »
Does anyone really care that much about Carra though?

Dont get me wrong, there's a lot of respect for the man out there but just about everyone seems to be of the consensus that his best days are long gone. He doesn't hold the same place in people's hearts as say Gerrard.

Dropping him isnt really that political if you ask me. Nobody has been making any noises in the press about his lack of appearances before Agger's injury. Those in the stands weren't whistling every time we conceded a goal and making it know "That wouldnt have happened if Carragher was there".

He's not Totti at Roma, or Raul at Madrid.

People have a general sort of malaise towards Carra I think. Kenny's picking him because he wants him on the field, not because he's afraid to drop him.

Which is much more worrying.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1831 on: March 5, 2012, 02:49:38 pm »
If Carra played the 'political' game against Kenny he would lose. There is no name in the world that carries more respect amongst Liverpool supporters than Kenny's. Kenny knows this.

His team selection, whether you agree with it or not, is based on who he thinks can win the game for him, not on not wanting to piss anybody off.

It is not about winning or losing it is about collateral damage why would Kenny risk it when there are already plenty of idiots already calling for his head every time we lose a game. Much better to let things run there course and that way every time a defender makes a mistake Kenny doesn't get it in the neck for axing Carra.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1832 on: March 5, 2012, 02:52:19 pm »
It is not about winning or losing it is about collateral damage why would Kenny risk it when there are already plenty of idiots already calling for his head every time we lose a game. Much better to let things run there course and that way every time a defender makes a mistake Kenny doesn't get it in the neck for axing Carra.
This is King Kenny were talking about, expect him to manage in fear of what a section of the media/fanbase may say after future defeats?

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1833 on: March 5, 2012, 02:59:26 pm »
It is not about winning or losing it is about collateral damage why would Kenny risk it when there are already plenty of idiots already calling for his head every time we lose a game. Much better to let things run there course and that way every time a defender makes a mistake Kenny doesn't get it in the neck for axing Carra.

If that's what you think then you must have a very low opinion of Kenny. Has he ever been a man to simply follow the path of least resistance?

He's not daft and he will have seen the disaster that was Carra's performance on Saturday. If Carra plays against Sunderland then I may have to agree with you!

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1834 on: March 5, 2012, 03:00:37 pm »
Kenny walked the last time he felt he couldn't make a substitution that was beneficial for the club. Can't see him making that decision twice.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1835 on: March 5, 2012, 03:10:30 pm »
It is not about winning or losing it is about collateral damage why would Kenny risk it when there are already plenty of idiots already calling for his head every time we lose a game. Much better to let things run there course and that way every time a defender makes a mistake Kenny doesn't get it in the neck for axing Carra.
Do the supporters even care about not playing Carra any longer? A few years ago, most likely, but now? Who would seriously question Kenny over playing a young defender ahead of Carra at this point? One or two maybe, but not many. It's not comparable to Houllier and Fowler, or any of the other examples, in my opinion. Carragher is even further removed from his peak than many of the other players, and unlike Raul or Fowler, hardly anyone would chose his 'side' over Kenny's. I imagine that wasn't the case between Capello, Raul and the Madrid fans, or indeed here at Liverpool with Houllier and Fowler (or Rafa and Carragher).

There might be trouble inside the squad, with Carragher personally, but not ever with the supporters. I really can't see that happening should Coates start more often. We haven't heard a thing since Skrtel and Agger became first choice, have we?

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1836 on: March 5, 2012, 04:14:23 pm »
Do the supporters even care about not playing Carra any longer? A few years ago, most likely, but now? Who would seriously question Kenny over playing a young defender ahead of Carra at this point? One or two maybe, but not many. It's not comparable to Houllier and Fowler, or any of the other examples, in my opinion. Carragher is even further removed from his peak than many of the other players, and unlike Raul or Fowler, hardly anyone would chose his 'side' over Kenny's. I imagine that wasn't the case between Capello, Raul and the Madrid fans, or indeed here at Liverpool with Houllier and Fowler (or Rafa and Carragher).

There might be trouble inside the squad, with Carragher personally, but not ever with the supporters. I really can't see that happening should Coates start more often. We haven't heard a thing since Skrtel and Agger became first choice, have we?
I've got to laugh at the last line, not at your expense though but because there were some on RAWK here who still wanted Carragher starting ahead of Skrtel, hilariously.
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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1837 on: March 5, 2012, 05:35:09 pm »
When Kenny and Steve Clarke decide it's time to drop Carragher to fourth choice they will do exactly that. Kenny isn't weak, if he has played Carra ahead of Coates so far it will be because he and Steve Clarke thought it was the right thing to do for football reasons. Just like when Skrtel proved he deserved to start ahead of Jamie when he was injured by upping his game and showing he was now the better defender, Kenny stuck with him and Agger.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1838 on: March 5, 2012, 05:46:37 pm »
When Kenny and Steve Clarke decide it's time to drop Carragher to fourth choice they will do exactly that. Kenny isn't weak, if he has played Carra ahead of Coates so far it will be because he and Steve Clarke thought it was the right thing to do for football reasons. Just like when Skrtel proved he deserved to start ahead of Jamie when he was injured by upping his game and showing he was now the better defender, Kenny stuck with him and Agger.
Skrtel did not prove anything! He was already a starter under the Owl and Kenny the previous season. He just got benched due to him recovering from injury (IIRC) and was a matter of time before he would have gotten his place on the team back.
People should stop insinuating that a player who played ALL games for us under the previous manager and Kenny (the backend of last season) was shite until this season.

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Re: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership
« Reply #1839 on: March 5, 2012, 11:12:31 pm »