Author Topic: New Kop  (Read 33459 times)

Offline Peter McGurk

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New Kop
« on: July 25, 2015, 02:05:26 pm »
I think if it ever gets done it has to be single tiered, two tiers isn't an option for me. And agree about the Albert, although there may be ways of incorporating it, moving it brick by brick etc.

Out of interest, do you know what the maximum distance could be to the back of a single tiered stand? (I understand your point about shit views, but if you weren't paying much it wouldn't matter so much. I didn't see a lot in the 80's when I was 15 and getting thrown all over the place!)

I do think a lot about a ground where people could walk up for 15-20 quid on a Saturday for the Kop. It's not in keeping with modern football at all, but it'd be great for Liverpool to do something a bit different. Can't see it with FSG though, they're running a tight financial ship. Maybe with some other investment, part fan funding or different owners they'd look at it differently.

The Kop can only be extended by maybe 1500 or so seats before reaching the maximum guideline distance from the pitch.

The investment (in bridging/ moving roads, the church, the Albert, new roof, raising structure) can be done but doesn't make it viable - especially as it will be as you say, all general admission.

I don't think anyone else would look at this differently.


So what's going on behind the Kop/Centenary over at Kemp Avenue then? What's that being cleared for?

The whole area has been part of a redevelopment programme for many years. Parts of this have come and gone but the commitments to regeneration remain and preparations are being made to resume the programme.


That's not easy. Extending over the road would make the new seats miles from the pitch and unless you created a two tier stand, they'd have shit views. The Kop would no longer be the Kop, just another stand. The way to go for extra, cheap capacity on the Kop is safe standing but there are reasons why that won't happen anytime soon. Also the Albert has been kept for heritage reasons - just smashing it down would be a shame. And the future development is for the area, but the club. The area is not just about the club - demolishing churches and historic pubs and blocking the views along residential streets would be a massive 'fuck off' to the area.

As has been discussed, the kop could be almost twice the capacity with safe standing but for not much extra income compared to the cost.

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« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 02:15:26 pm by Peter McGurk »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2015, 02:55:58 pm »
Posted this in the other thread showing the maximum viewing distances. As Peter says you can only extend a bit before the viewing distances become too great.
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Re: New Kop
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2015, 04:10:17 pm »
Binoculars Alan. That and all the youth that Graham craves so, at the back. Good eyesight and all that.

Leaves all the specsaving hasbeen's and mute foot soldiers at the front. We can use our inhalers as air horns and rattle our money with the hole in the middle, to get the party started.
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 04:30:28 pm »
Binoculars Alan. That and all the youth that Graham craves so, at the back. Good eyesight and all that.

Leaves all the specsaving hasbeen's and mute foot soldiers at the front. We can use our inhalers as air horns and rattle our money with the hole in the middle, to get the party started.

Those outer arcs are 190m from the diagonally opposite corner flag. 200 yards in our money. Good luck with increasing that.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 04:42:09 pm »
So basically what people are saying is extending the capacity on the Kop is pretty much a no go. Shame.

Offline macca007

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 05:01:08 pm »
So basically what people are saying is extending the capacity on the Kop is pretty much a no go. Shame.

Unless safe standing comes in which we have had circular discussions on for a while!

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2015, 02:55:18 am »
So basically what people are saying is extending the capacity on the Kop is pretty much a no go. Shame.

Due to the design of the new Main Stand (and proposed new Anfield Road End - if completed) it seems we'll be stuck around 58,000-ish for a considerable time.

A shame indeed, mate.



Have seen on a couple of sites the idea of making a new Annie Road End a new Kop style stand instead (due to the space available - a larger single tier stand with unrestricted views etc) - though possibly pragmatic - would likely be very unpopular with many fans?

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Offline free_at_last

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 04:02:00 am »
What about filling the corners in? How many seats would that give us and is it feasible with the new stand design?

Offline macca007

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 06:44:25 am »
What about filling the corners in? How many seats would that give us and is it feasible with the new stand design?

Remember reading Peter and Alan and others saying the corner seats would cost shitloads to build and add fuck all seats as stuff like the roof supports in place wouldn't make it a possibility. That and there's restrictions around building stadia over a certain size without things in place to do with transport, parking and things like that above roughly what we are increasing our capacity to

Offline free_at_last

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 07:15:16 am »
Remember reading Peter and Alan and others saying the corner seats would cost shitloads to build and add fuck all seats as stuff like the roof supports in place wouldn't make it a possibility. That and there's restrictions around building stadia over a certain size without things in place to do with transport, parking and things like that above roughly what we are increasing our capacity to
I was just thinking what kudos FSG could get by adding even 1000 seats and allocating them to ticket office sale/pay at the gate for under 16's. They may be costly but we waste tens of millions on players and managers(we gave the owl 7 mill to go away FFS)
and it doesn't even count for FFP. Not even the most devout economic rationalist could call a Liverpool fan a customer with a straight face so a project that doesn't make money should be acceptable within reason.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 08:12:31 am »
Remember reading Peter and Alan and others saying the corner seats would cost shitloads to build and add fuck all seats as stuff like the roof supports in place wouldn't make it a possibility. That and there's restrictions around building stadia over a certain size without things in place to do with transport, parking and things like that above roughly what we are increasing our capacity to
I was just thinking what kudos FSG could get by adding even 1000 seats and allocating them to ticket office sale/pay at the gate for under 16's. They may be costly but we waste tens of millions on players and managers(we gave the owl 7 mill to go away FFS)
and it doesn't even count for FFP. Not even the most devout economic rationalist could call a Liverpool fan a customer with a straight face so a project that doesn't make money should be acceptable within reason.

Filling in the corners would need new roof supports or a complete new roof. It's not impossible as the corner infills at Dortmund demonstrate, but the cost is very high. The Dortmund corners were done to increase corporate provision for the World Cup, not to provide cheap seats for pay on the door lads, and the huge cost was subsidised as part of the World Cup bid.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 08:14:39 am by Alan_X »
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Offline Fromola

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2015, 09:08:50 am »
It'd only make sense with safe standing in terms of a capacity boost.

In the long term the Main Stand, a redeveloped Anfield Road, a new Centenary Stand and a new Kop with rail seats could give the ground around a capacity similar to the current Old Trafford.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 09:36:15 am »
It'd only make sense with safe standing in terms of a capacity boost.

In the long term the Main Stand, a redeveloped Anfield Road, a new Centenary Stand and a new Kop with rail seats could give the ground around a capacity similar to the current Old Trafford.

What's that based on? Building a ground shouldn't be a dick swinging contest. You do realise that building new seats costs money and that will be reflected in the ticket prices. Demolish and rebuild the Centenary to get a few thousand extra seats would need a whacking chunk to be corporate or higher priced tickets to justify the expense.

The Centenary is fine as it is. A safe standing Kop could add 12,000 without a complete rebuild. If the ARE happens that would be around 70,000 with cheap tickets for the young lads on the Kop.

Or we could spend a fortune, disrupt the ground for years, skimp on transfers for ten years to pay for it and price young lads even further out of the game - all to build a ground that has to be packed with corporate tickets and day trippers to make it pay...
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2015, 09:41:02 am »
What's that based on? Building a ground shouldn't be a dick swinging contest. You do realise that building new seats costs money and that will be reflected in the ticket prices. Demolish and rebuild the Centenary to get a few thousand extra seats would need a whacking chunk to be corporate or higher priced tickets to justify the expense.

The Centenary is fine as it is. A safe standing Kop could add 12,000 without a complete rebuild. If the ARE happens that would be around 70,000 with cheap tickets for the young lads on the Kop.

Or we could spend a fortune, disrupt the ground for years, skimp on transfers for ten years to pay for it and price young lads even further out of the game - all to build a ground that has to be packed with corporate tickets and day trippers to make it pay...

Yeah but we could all laugh at fans of other sides who have smaller grounds.

Because that's something normal people do.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2015, 09:55:57 am »
Yeah but we could all laugh at fans of other sides who have smaller grounds.

Because that's something normal people do.

You know what it's like though Craig. You're watching the Reds winning 3-0 at home but you can't be happy because you know somewhere there's a ground with a bigger capacity than ours.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 09:58:23 am »
You know what it's like though Craig. You're watching the Reds winning 3-0 at home but you can't be happy because you know somewhere there's a ground with a bigger capacity than ours.

I refused to celebrate in Istanbul because as they walked round the pitch with the cup I looked around the stadium and realised it was much bigger than Anfield.

It totally ruined it for me.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 10:00:46 am »
I refused to celebrate in Istanbul because as they walked round the pitch with the cup I looked around the stadium and realised it was much bigger than Anfield.

It totally ruined it for me.
;D
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Offline The Lord Admiral

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2015, 11:10:01 am »
The Kop can only be extended by maybe 1500 or so seats before reaching the maximum guideline distance from the pitch.

The investment (in bridging/ moving roads, the church, the Albert, new roof, raising structure) can be done but doesn't make it viable - especially as it will be as you say, all general admission.

I don't think anyone else would look at this differently.


The whole area has been part of a redevelopment programme for many years. Parts of this have come and gone but the commitments to regeneration remain and preparations are being made to resume the programme.


As has been discussed, the kop could be almost twice the capacity with safe standing but for not much extra income compared to the cost.

.



Really interesting that Peter, and thanks for starting a thread on it, I've been toying with it for ages.

The figure of 1500 really surprised me. It made me wonder if there are grounds (not just in this country) where the viewing distance is further than the one Alan referenced in the other thread?

Again referring to the other thread and the interest/obsession with extending the Kop is not in just having a big capacity, for me personally it's about opening football up again, via a £10, £15, £20 ticket, to the demographic that football used to be all about.

The quality of view is important of course, but as a 13, 14 year old lad, how bothered are you going to be? I think there's an argument for getting people back in the ground. £40+ a ticket is going to kill it eventually. There won't be another generation coming through.

There isn't a perfect solution. There may not be a solution that makes sense to an owner like FSG, for whom the club is a financial investment. But a new owner with unlimited money? Or maybe even a tranche of shares offered to fans to facilitate something? What definitely isn't realistic now may suddenly become so.

There's a fair few people post on here with professional expertise, I'd be really interested in what we/they could come up with if we dream a little. Not to the extent of the stadium in a Space Jam, but maybe to what would be possible if we got that train station open and a rerouted Walton Breck road.


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Re: New Kop
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 11:11:21 am »
What's that based on? Building a ground shouldn't be a dick swinging contest. You do realise that building new seats costs money and that will be reflected in the ticket prices. Demolish and rebuild the Centenary to get a few thousand extra seats would need a whacking chunk to be corporate or higher priced tickets to justify the expense.

The Centenary is fine as it is. A safe standing Kop could add 12,000 without a complete rebuild. If the ARE happens that would be around 70,000 with cheap tickets for the young lads on the Kop.

Or we could spend a fortune, disrupt the ground for years, skimp on transfers for ten years to pay for it and price young lads even further out of the game - all to build a ground that has to be packed with corporate tickets and day trippers to make it pay...

Just out of interest Alan, has there been feasibility studies done for this ?
And if so, what sort of money would it cost ?
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Offline MarkR

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2015, 11:48:50 am »
Binoculars Alan. That and all the youth that Graham craves so, at the back. Good eyesight and all that.

Leaves all the specsaving hasbeen's and mute foot soldiers at the front. We can use our inhalers as air horns and rattle our money with the hole in the middle, to get the party started.
My seat is in row 58 and that's already plenty far enough back visibility wise. The furthest back I've been is in 68and that was a struggle so how they cope in 76 I don't know ..... Speaking as a contact lense wearing old fart that is ...

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2015, 01:02:36 pm »
i very much doubt we will ever see the Kop extended so the only realistic way to increase capacity at that end of the ground would be through safe standing

A controversial idea would be to build a new Kop at the Anfield Rd End, highly unlikely but not impossible.

i dont think its dick waving when you see Spurs and Chelsea building new, City Expanding, Arsenal finished and United already miles ahead you cant blame fans wondering why after all the work being done we will still be playing catch up.

Some will see FSGs cautious approach as being the way to go and others will see it as lacking ambition.
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Offline campioni

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2015, 06:27:51 pm »
i very much doubt we will ever see the Kop extended so the only realistic way to increase capacity at that end of the ground would be through safe standing

A controversial idea would be to build a new Kop at the Anfield Rd End, highly unlikely but not impossible.

i dont think its dick waving when you see Spurs and Chelsea building new, City Expanding, Arsenal finished and United already miles ahead you cant blame fans wondering why after all the work being done we will still be playing catch up.

Some will see FSGs cautious approach as being the way to go and others will see it as lacking ambition.


After expansion / new build Spurs and City will have 61,000 while Chelsea and Arsenal will have 60,000. No point talking about United, they're in a league of their own. If / when the Anfield Road end is finished we'll have 58,500. In the grand scheme of things 1,500-2,500 seats is fuck all. And for the likes of City and Spurs there is absolutely no guarantee they will fill those seats week in, week out.

If those clubs having a slightly bigger capacity stadium annoys you then I don't see it as anything other than a dick waving contest.

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2015, 06:34:33 pm »
After expansion / new build Spurs and City will have 61,000 while Chelsea and Arsenal will have 60,000. No point talking about United, they're in a league of their own. If / when the Anfield Road end is finished we'll have 58,500. In the grand scheme of things 1,500-2,500 seats is fuck all. And for the likes of City and Spurs there is absolutely no guarantee they will fill those seats week in, week out.

If those clubs having a slightly bigger capacity stadium annoys you then I don't see it as anything other than a dick waving contest.

They rarely fill the ground.
The tickets are generally all sold though.

City are expanding so the owners can shovel money in through the back door. I can't wait to see just how many of the extra ~13k seats end up with a backside on it.
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Re: New Kop
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2015, 06:40:47 pm »
My seat is in row 58 and that's already plenty far enough back visibility wise. The furthest back I've been is in 68and that was a struggle so how they cope in 76 I don't know ..... Speaking as a contact lense wearing old fart that is ...

Try these old chap..........



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Re: New Kop
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2015, 07:25:08 pm »
Try these old chap..........




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Re: New Kop
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2015, 08:00:14 pm »
Try these old chap..........

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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2015, 10:45:15 pm »
Really interesting that Peter, and thanks for starting a thread on it, I've been toying with it for ages.

The figure of 1500 really surprised me. It made me wonder if there are grounds (not just in this country) where the viewing distance is further than the one Alan referenced in the other thread?

Again referring to the other thread and the interest/obsession with extending the Kop is not in just having a big capacity, for me personally it's about opening football up again, via a £10, £15, £20 ticket, to the demographic that football used to be all about.

The quality of view is important of course, but as a 13, 14 year old lad, how bothered are you going to be? I think there's an argument for getting people back in the ground. £40+ a ticket is going to kill it eventually. There won't be another generation coming through.

There isn't a perfect solution. There may not be a solution that makes sense to an owner like FSG, for whom the club is a financial investment. But a new owner with unlimited money? Or maybe even a tranche of shares offered to fans to facilitate something? What definitely isn't realistic now may suddenly become so.

There's a fair few people post on here with professional expertise, I'd be really interested in what we/they could come up with if we dream a little. Not to the extent of the stadium in a Space Jam, but maybe to what would be possible if we got that train station open and a rerouted Walton Breck road.

We've dreamt all there is to dream. You've followed the debate as much as many and it's disingenuous to pretend this is a new avenue of thought.

Ditto the idea that FSG are here to take what they can and that is all. Sure, they are investing in sport but to be successful in investing in sport, the club has to be run well and the team has to be successful too. It's a win-win for them and for the supporters.

A tranche of shares held by supporters doesn't change the financial logic and paying towards any kind of rail link is just madness - if it's costing £6k a seat now, how much with s chunk of the 100s of millions for a rail line thrown in?

And yes, we looked for a sugar-daddy and there wasn't one. This is so much ancient history.

Getting the kids in. Securing the next generation is the way to a sustainable club for years to come. But a straight halving of ticket prices doesn't make any sense. 'Doubling' the capacity of the kop at half the price makes sense only taking a longer view but there is too much misunderstanding amongst at least some supporters to even consider safe standing at this point. Not to mention the weakening of demand for an as yet unproven expansion to just under 60k.
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 11:01:34 pm by Peter McGurk »

Offline KillieRed

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2015, 11:05:29 pm »
I'm sorry if I have missed the answer to this somewhere whilst following these threads, but does the proposed Anfield Road End expansion involve bridging the road?  Or this not feasible / cost effective?
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Re: New Kop
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2015, 11:16:46 pm »
I'm sorry if I have missed the answer to this somewhere whilst following these threads, but does the proposed Anfield Road End expansion involve bridging the road?  Or this not feasible / cost effective?

The road is being closed off completely.

It's not really an important road for traffic, with plenty of other options to get to the same route, plus it will be pedestrianised still so plenty of access that way.

Offline John C

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2015, 12:16:29 am »
I'm sorry if I have missed the answer to this somewhere whilst following these threads, but does the proposed Anfield Road End expansion involve bridging the road?  Or this not feasible / cost effective?
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=313686.0

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2015, 04:39:03 am »
Peter.

How do they work out the sightlines at the Dortmund stadium? Do they have different regulations? Is it a practical consideration?

Having a good outdoor plaza to show the matches and soak in the atmosphere would be a great addition to the plans. It works really well in Dallas supposedly.

Thanks.
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Re: New Kop
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2015, 05:37:47 am »
Peter.

How do they work out the sightlines at the Dortmund stadium? Do they have different regulations? Is it a practical consideration?

Having a good outdoor plaza to show the matches and soak in the atmosphere would be a great addition to the plans. It works really well in Dallas supposedly.

Thanks.

All stadia use the same calculation - the c-value - to work out the ideal rake. It's based on the distance to a point on the pitch and the vertical height of a typical eye above the head of the person I front.  The ideal c-value depends on the sport.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightline

The c-value generates an increasing rake as you get further and higher from the pitch.

The rake of the sudtribune at Dortmund would have been worked out exactly the same as other grounds at the time it was built. Or rather 'times it was built' as it was developed in a number of phases. And the rake is pretty much the same as the other stands and it's pretty similar to the Kop.

And the plaza at Dallas works because the stadium is essentially in the centre of a massive car park. People drive to the ground and a sixty minute (in theory) game goes on for hours because of TV demands. Anfield is in the middle of a residential area and the transport infrastructure is used to capacity just getting the supporters with tickets to and from the ground.
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2015, 05:48:24 am »
Try these old chap..........

Or try the zoom in function on one of these


Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2015, 08:41:43 am »
Peter.

How do they work out the sightlines at the Dortmund stadium? Do they have different regulations? Is it a practical consideration?

Having a good outdoor plaza to show the matches and soak in the atmosphere would be a great addition to the plans. It works really well in Dallas supposedly.

Thanks.

The Sudtribune is a little steeper than the kop (and steeper than UK regs for the standing they have), hence the better sightlines.

Look to the side and behind the Albert for what I'm sure will emerge as a pre-match fan zone/ plaza.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 08:45:38 am by Peter McGurk »

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2015, 09:52:35 am »
Having a good outdoor plaza to show the matches and soak in the atmosphere would be a great addition to the plans. It works really well in Dallas supposedly.

There are going to be 'fan zones' at either end of the stadium, but you have to remember the weather in the North West UK is pretty different to it in Dallas.

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2015, 11:27:40 am »
I have some questions regarding the kop,

If and when we move to safe standing will the kop not have to be redeveloped to create extra concourse space.  Isn't there also an issue that those standing at the back of the kop will have restricted views of the far end. 

Could it be an opportunity to raise the roof to provide better views and while doing this expand the kop into a fan shape filling corners as much as possible, maybe creating another 3000 seats and obviously much greater standing capacity.  Would this make development more financially viable without going over WBR?

I notice the spurs new ground supposedly has a bigger single tier stand but the cross-section suggests an increased gradient from halfway back.  Would this be an option in a kop development to allow the terrace to go higher without going back much further.

I suppose ultimately I'm say could the safe standing development make a redesign of the kop more viable, both physically and financially?




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Re: New Kop
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2015, 11:38:02 am »
I have some questions regarding the kop,

If and when we move to safe standing will the kop not have to be redeveloped to create extra concourse space.  Isn't there also an issue that those standing at the back of the kop will have restricted views of the far end. 

There would probably need to be extra space added, but I think this could be done within the current area we have and not be effected by the road. For one there is a new 'Superstore' being built in the Main Stand so you could in theory use up all the space the current store uses up for additional concourse, along with building an 'extension' on the back towards the road.

The roof is an issue but not sure entirely if it's the main structure which causing the sight line issues or stuff hanging off it. I imagine it could be easily sorted if it's the latter.

Quote
Could it be an opportunity to raise the roof to provide better views and while doing this expand the kop into a fan shape filling corners as much as possible, maybe creating another 3000 seats and obviously much greater standing capacity.  Would this make development more financially viable without going over WBR?

It would be a huge cost for few extra seats, which would also be the lowest priced in the ground (so return is less). Won't happen.

Quote
I notice the spurs new ground supposedly has a bigger single tier stand but the cross-section suggests an increased gradient from halfway back.  Would this be an option in a kop development to allow the terrace to go higher without going back much further.

I suppose ultimately I'm say could the safe standing development make a redesign of the kop more viable, both physically and financially?

Alan or Peter will be better to answer this, but I'm fairly sure the Kop is as steep as a stand is currently allowed, or near to it. So I doubt it could be made any steeper.

Standing won't make anything more than the changes required to the current Kop more viable, given ticket prices would decrease (hopefully in line with the capacity increase).

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2015, 11:43:04 am »
The back row of the KOP is fine viewing wise, I've been lumbered with seats there a few times.
Whether they meet the guidelines Alan spoke about I don't know.
But it's definitely not like being on the back row of the Lower Annie. :D


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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: New Kop
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2015, 12:00:37 pm »
There would probably need to be extra space added, but I think this could be done within the current area we have and not be effected by the road. For one there is a new 'Superstore' being built in the Main Stand so you could in theory use up all the space the current store uses up for additional concourse, along with building an 'extension' on the back towards the road.

The roof is an issue but not sure entirely if it's the main structure which causing the sight line issues or stuff hanging off it. I imagine it could be easily sorted if it's the latter.

It would be a huge cost for few extra seats, which would also be the lowest priced in the ground (so return is less). Won't happen.

Alan or Peter will be better to answer this, but I'm fairly sure the Kop is as steep as a stand is currently allowed, or near to it. So I doubt it could be made any steeper.

Standing won't make anything more than the changes required to the current Kop more viable, given ticket prices would decrease (hopefully in line with the capacity increase).

The kop is significantly less steep than is currently allowed for seating bit making it steeper doesn't make it any narrower. The depth of each step is a fixed dimension. Only the height can be changed.

The corners could only be filled in by replacing the roof supports to the kop and the kop end of the Main and Centenary stands. Also the geometry of both means relatively small numbers or building 'galleries' up high to see over the ends of the two adjoining stands.

On the other hand, 6000 seats could be achieved but at plenty cost for lower income.

.