Topic: RAWK Round Table Liverpool 3-1 Crystal Palace.

[WillyWonka]

Would our 3-5-2 not be vunerable against a decent 4-3-3 without a good holding midfielder? Having 3 attacking one vs one vs our defenders would be a big worry. Having Glen Johnson back would be a big help.

[freddwarf]

Would our 3-5-2 not be vunerable against a decent 4-3-3 without a good holding midfielder? Having 3 attacking one vs one vs our defenders would be a big worry. Having Glen Johnson back would be a big help.

Well question is - is Glen Johnson a better wing back than Henderson?

Is Glen better at going forward than Hendo....yes

Is Glen a better player on the back foot than Hendo...yes

Does Glen have the energy that Hendo has....no

Is Glen as versatile as Hendo...no

That's 2-2.

[WillyWonka]

Well question is - is Glen Johnson a better wing back than Henderson?

Is Glen better at going forward than Hendo....yes

Is Glen a better player on the back foot than Hendo...yes

Does Glen have the energy that Hendo has....no

Is Glen as versatile as Hendo...no

That's 2-2.

Why does versatility come into it? If they are fighting it out for a bench spot I could understand but when it comes down to playing in the first 11 I think how versatile a player is shouldn't be that important. I think he's better going forward and defending, and that to me is what matters the most.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Would our 3-5-2 not be vunerable against a decent 4-3-3 without a good holding midfielder? Having 3 attacking one vs one vs our defenders would be a big worry. Having Glen Johnson back would be a big help.

The thing that people forget to take into account when talking about Formation A vs Formation B is that there is only one ball, and it can only be in one location at any point in time. So it's not really three 1v1's (unless we're strict man-to-man marking). If we employ zonal defending (which we do), then the shape is dictated by the location of the ball, so one wingback (the weak-side wingback) will always drop in to make the back three more like a four. So there's no more difference in the shape than if we'd played a traditional back four. What 3-5-2 gives us, given what we know about Rodgers, is the ability to stretch the field with wingbacks (like how we did with the fullbacks last season), but maintain good numerical superiority behind the ball.

[freddwarf]

Why does versatility come into it? If they are fighting it out for a bench spot I could understand but when it comes down to playing in the first 11 I think how versatile a player is shouldn't be that important. I think he's better going forward and defending, and that to me is what matters the most.

I would probably pick Glen in front of Hendo as wing back. Still have Hendo's versatility on the bench. Although Hendo has done well this season and I think Rodgers will think long and hard before leaving him out.

One reason for keeping Hendo in is to make up for Gerrards lack of mobility. Although I'm no big fan of Hendo but ability to still be fighting as hard in the last 10 minutes as he was in the first 10 is a big plus.

[DanA]

Well question is - is Glen Johnson a better wing back than Henderson?

Is Glen better at going forward than Hendo....yes

Is Glen a better player on the back foot than Hendo...yes

Does Glen have the energy that Hendo has....no

Is Glen as versatile as Hendo...no

That's 2-2.

You could add a hundred of those and come to just about any score depending on the criteria though.

I think Johnson is slightly better as a wing back but more than that is I think Henderson is far more useful as a sub. For that reason I'd much rather play Johnson at RWB, it frees up Henderson for other things.

[GrkStav]

The notion that Henderson is a better option as RWB than Johnson (who, as we all know, I am just so incredibly fond of) is a non-starter. Hands-down, without a shadow of a doubt, Glen Johnson is a better option at RWB than Henderson, all other things equal.

[WillyWonka]

The thing that people forget to take into account when talking about Formation A vs Formation B is that there is only one ball, and it can only be in one location at any point in time. So it's not really three 1v1's (unless we're strict man-to-man marking). If we employ zonal defending (which we do), then the shape is dictated by the location of the ball, so one wingback (the weak-side wingback) will always drop in to make the back three more like a four. So there's no more difference in the shape than if we'd played a traditional back four. What 3-5-2 gives us, given what we know about Rodgers, is the ability to stretch the field with wingbacks (like how we did with the fullbacks last season), but maintain good numerical superiority behind the ball.

I thought there was numerous times we got caught in one vs one is situations against Palace. Alot of this I felt was due to poor play by Henderson which is why I'd be worried about going into a match playing 352 withouht a recognised DM.

[GrkStav]

I thought there was numerous times we got caught in one vs one is situations against Palace. Alot of this I felt was due to poor play by Henderson which is why I'd be worried about going into a match playing 352 withouht a recognised DM.

In what did this Henderson "poor play" consist?

[WillyWonka]

In what did this Henderson "poor play" consist?

Taking up the wrong position and being a bit slow to react.

[GrkStav]

Taking up the wrong position and being a bit slow to react.

Would you say, compared to previous performances vs other clubs, that Henderson was less or more 'guilty' of 'taking up the wrong position' and "being a bit slow to react" vs Crystal Palace? I would say "much less so".

If the fact that he has not really featured that much in the exact same position and with the exact same tasks previously, and vs other clubs, makes comparing that last performance to his previous performances impossible, against whom or what are we comparing his performance vs Crystal Palace in order to determine whether he took up the 'wrong position' and was too "slow to react"? An ideal central midfielder in an ideal 4231, or another of our central midfielders?

[WillyWonka]

Would you say, compared to previous performances vs other clubs, that Henderson was less or more 'guilty' of 'taking up the wrong position' and "being a bit slow to react" vs Crystal Palace? I would say "much less so".

If the fact that he has not really featured that much in the exact same position and with the exact same tasks previously, and vs other clubs, makes comparing that last performance to his previous performances impossible, against whom or what are we comparing his performance vs Crystal Palace in order to determine whether he took up the 'wrong position' and was too "slow to react"? An ideal central midfielder in an ideal 4231, or another of our central midfielders?

Well he never really played DM before so his poor  positioning isn't really as big of a deal in other positions. Also positional session isn't as important in those positions either. I'd compare to what you expect a good DM to do in the situations Henderson found himself. I wouldn't want my DM to ever be in those positions. I thought compared to Lucas he looked a good bit worse. This isn't really a surprise though, he's not a DM and he hasn't played there. But I thought the comments about Hendersons peformance have been pretty OTT. Also think people saying that with 3 central defenders we don't need a defensive/holding midfielder. Henderson performance aganst Palace just confirmed that we still really need Lucas in that position even with 3 defenders.

[DanA]

Well he never really played DM before so his poor  positioning isn't really as big of a deal in other positions. Also positional session isn't as important in those positions either. I'd compare to what you expect a good DM to do in the situations Henderson found himself. I wouldn't want my DM to ever be in those positions. I thought compared to Lucas he looked a good bit worse. This isn't really a surprise though, he's not a DM and he hasn't played there. But I thought the comments about Hendersons peformance have been pretty OTT. Also think people saying that with 3 central defenders we don't need a defensive/holding midfielder. Henderson performance aganst Palace just confirmed that we still really need Lucas in that position even with 3 defenders.

I thought you said you haven't watched the game

[WillyWonka]

I thought you said you haven't watched the game

The Palace game? Nope, I've watched it a few times.

[Aristotle]

Special shout-out to Moses for his run and outside-foot pass to Suarez for the first goal. It was really great and exactly the type of stuff that was missing from players last season.

[kevin87]

This game showed 1 thing too me. Hendo has the ability and tactical know how to play along side Gerrard in CM. I think this will 100% be his position in 3-4 years, and anything else between is grooming him for this role. The boy has more passing ability than I think he gives himself credit for and it just looks to me like he just needs to believe in himself a fraction more.

It is a credit to himself that he should be talked about in 4 or so positions, the lad is starting to mold himself a proper 1st team regular. That's no mean feat at his age and its something we mustn't forget. I'd have complete faith in him if Stevie or Lucas were out for any long period of time with injury