Topic: RAWK Round Table Liverpool 1-0 Stoke.

[DG]

I think this game was a perfect opening game and very telling, both going forward and at the back.

Before the game, we were linked to Willian and I thought to myself; why? We're top heavy, our attack is strong enough. And yesterday proved that, in my opinion. When I say attack, I mean the front four and yesterday it was a combination of Sturridge, Aspas, Coutinho and Henderson. Behind them we've got Suarez, Alberto, Borini, Sterling and for two of them we know exactly what they can do, and for two of them we are rightfully hopeful. To add to this makes little sense, especially after watching the game yesterday.

The central midfield has been gone over a million times by now, regarding backups and possible acquisitions and I feel little need to go over it again.

However, comparing our back four to our front four tells its own story. Up front we've got Sturridge, Aspas, Coutinho and Henderson with Suarez, Alberto, Borini and Sterling behind. Compare this to our back four; we had Johnson, Toure, Agger, Enrique with Skrtel, Coates, Kelly and Flanagan behind. It can be argued over a million times regarding potential and what wins you games, but yesterday was telling enough that our weakness certainly isn't going forward, even though we only scored one goal and kept a clean sheet.

For me, Rodgers' system is becoming quite defensively viable. We rarely let goals in specifically because of mistakes that can be pinned to the system anymore (compared to last season's split cb/high line goals) and that is an immense improvement. But our back four has too many mistakes in it, for me. Toure, after so little time, is the only player I fully trust. I love Agger and I don't think he needs replacement, but he could do with some competition (Coates/Skrtel simply don't offer it). He's a form player, incredible for periods and less than incredible for periods, not to mention his injury proneness. We need something better than Skrtel/Coates to throw in there unless Skrtel finds his form from 11/12, which I doubt unfortunately. Then you've got Johnson, who is prone to lapses in concentration but if Kelly can stay fit, it's fine for me. And left back has been gone over a million times as well, and I don't feel the need to go over it again.

So, just now when you think this post is better fit for the transfer forum, the game was a perfect example of all of it. We are all over the moon about the match and 3 points, and rightly so. It has made my week. But those three points were down to a clean sheet we were gifted. Huth should have scored, no doubt, and a pen should always without exception be a goal. And instead we'd be saying "same old, same old".

It won't be many matches the coming season when we'll be gifted a clean sheet (to a certain extent of course), but there will be many matches when we need one. And come Saturday, we're up against Aston Villa at Villa Park, and we all know the damage Benteke can cause. We've got Toure to handle him, hopefully, but he has to be mobile because he will target Agger.

Agger is a fantastic centre back, but he's not the right centre back to start away from home against a physical forward. We need an alternative we don't have. And we need a good one.

Or of course, we can hope Mignolet bails us out again. And I think he will a couple of times this season. But it should not be relied on.

[exiledinyorkshire]

I think this game was a perfect opening game and very telling, both going forward and at the back.

Before the game, we were linked to Willian and I thought to myself; why? We're top heavy, our attack is strong enough. And yesterday proved that, in my opinion. When I say attack, I mean the front four and yesterday it was a combination of Sturridge, Aspas, Coutinho and Henderson. Behind them we've got Suarez, Alberto, Borini, Sterling and for two of them we know exactly what they can do, and for two of them we are rightfully hopeful. To add to this makes little sense, especially after watching the game yesterday.

The central midfield has been gone over a million times by now, regarding backups and possible acquisitions and I feel little need to go over it again.

However, comparing our back four to our front four tells its own story. Up front we've got Sturridge, Aspas, Coutinho and Henderson with Suarez, Alberto, Borini and Sterling behind. Compare this to our back four; we had Johnson, Toure, Agger, Enrique with Skrtel, Coates, Kelly and Flanagan behind. It can be argued over a million times regarding potential and what wins you games, but yesterday was telling enough that our weakness certainly isn't going forward, even though we only scored one goal and kept a clean sheet.

For me, Rodgers' system is becoming quite defensively viable. We rarely let goals in specifically because of mistakes that can be pinned to the system anymore (compared to last season's split cb/high line goals) and that is an immense improvement. But our back four has too many mistakes in it, for me. Toure, after so little time, is the only player I fully trust. I love Agger and I don't think he needs replacement, but he could do with some competition (Coates/Skrtel simply don't offer it). He's a form player, incredible for periods and less than incredible for periods, not to mention his injury proneness. We need something better than Skrtel/Coates to throw in there unless Skrtel finds his form from 11/12, which I doubt unfortunately. Then you've got Johnson, who is prone to lapses in concentration but if Kelly can stay fit, it's fine for me. And left back has been gone over a million times as well, and I don't feel the need to go over it again.

So, just now when you think this post is better fit for the transfer forum, the game was a perfect example of all of it. We are all over the moon about the match and 3 points, and rightly so. It has made my week. But those three points were down to a clean sheet we were gifted. Huth should have scored, no doubt, and a pen should always without exception be a goal. And instead we'd be saying "same old, same old".

It won't be many matches the coming season when we'll be gifted a clean sheet (to a certain extent of course), but there will be many matches when we need one. And come Saturday, we're up against Aston Villa at Villa Park, and we all know the damage Benteke can cause. We've got Toure to handle him, hopefully, but he has to be mobile because he will target Agger.

Agger is a fantastic centre back, but he's not the right centre back to start away from home against a physical forward. We need an alternative we don't have. And we need a good one.

Or of course, we can hope Mignolet bails us out again. And I think he will a couple of times this season. But it should not be relied on.

or of course we can convert at a better rate than 1 in 15 chances on goal and be 3-0 at half time, meaning a late and thrilling onslaught from teams that have been outplayed is as likely to end in a couple more goals for us as a undeserved equaliser or winner for them.

Stoke "came not to play" and we battered them. But for Begovic Hughes would rightly be under enormous pressure this morning. Alls well that ends well.
I share your worry about our defence I have said as much in other threads, but today I look at that game as one where Stoke were lucky not to have been wiped off the face of the scouse earth. And I think you make your own luck. Ming in, penno saved, great work Rodgers. I fully expect some more cover at cb in the next 2 weeks, competition for left back is imminent. I think Brendan is methodically doing the obvious, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

Good start. The genuine worries still have time to be addressed, any more options that come in up top are a bonus. You cant be top heavey enough, if you intend to be an attacking team who look to score more goals than the other team. We would all take 1-0 to us all season long, but that's not the Rodgers plan. 1-0 be dammed we'll be creating(or trying to anyway) 15 clear cut chances a game, and to do that you can never have enough quality in your attacking 4 or the options off the bench.

[exiledinyorkshire]

in actual fact it could be argued that with Hughes at the helm on Saturday Stoke were not Stoke enough, it's a possibility that if Pulis had still been in charge that they would have been tighter at the back and even less adventurous, which could have left us needing a fair bit more up front if anything.

I know that if Suarez stays we automatically scare the bejesus out of most defences but more guile and craft is needed.

[Caffeine]

The way I look at it is- replace Henderson with Coutinho, and Willian or AN Other on the left of that front four- and we would probably have won by more. This is not to berate Henderson, who had a decent match (I thought all our lot did). But I do not buy this "opposition keeper always MOTM against us" thing. It is our job as a team to ensure that the ball is put in areas of the goal that Begovic can't reach, and we didn't do that enough. On a more positive note, we are creating chances, and the fluidity across the front line was a joy to watch. Aspas slotted straight in, although he looks like a fully grown man with a 12 year old's body.

It was also fantastic to see Lucas getting back to his best, snapping into tackles and winning the ball, positive and clever passing, exceptional reading of the game. I think he'll grow into the season and the signs are that he will get back to his pre-injury form. I can't wait.

I thought all the debutantes did brilliantly. Mignolet obviously nervy at the start, but then won us the match. I love Pepe, but when was the last time he won us a match? I can't remember. Toure was imperious at the back, we have all been worried about a lack of character and organisation in defence, well Kolo looks like an ideal short-term replacement for Carra in that respect, and couples those skills with being more comfortable on the ball, stronger in the air, more of a threat in attack, and much faster. I think the guy will surprise a lot of people this season with his ability.

I do agree with DG that we are lacking strength in depth defensively, but I don't feel like Willian will be our only signing and it's clear that we are targetting, or at least looking at, centre backs as well.

[DG]

or of course we can convert at a better rate than 1 in 15 chances on goal and be 3-0 at half time, meaning a late and thrilling onslaught from teams that have been outplayed is as likely to end in a couple more goals for us as a undeserved equaliser or winner for them.

Stoke "came not to play" and we battered them. But for Begovic Hughes would rightly be under enormous pressure this morning. Alls well that ends well.
I share your worry about our defence I have said as much in other threads, but today I look at that game as one where Stoke were lucky not to have been wiped off the face of the scouse earth. And I think you make your own luck. Ming in, penno saved, great work Rodgers. I fully expect some more cover at cb in the next 2 weeks, competition for left back is imminent. I think Brendan is methodically doing the obvious, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

Good start. The genuine worries still have time to be addressed, any more options that come in up top are a bonus. You cant be top heavey enough, if you intend to be an attacking team who look to score more goals than the other team. We would all take 1-0 to us all season long, but that's not the Rodgers plan. 1-0 be dammed we'll be creating(or trying to anyway) 15 clear cut chances a game, and to do that you can never have enough quality in your attacking 4 or the options off the bench.

I take your point, we did created a bucketload of chances but that sort of goes along with my point.

Rodgers' front four usually consists of two creators and two finishers, in theory anyway though it's not very rigid. Either way, it's obvious to me anyway that if we create 15 chances and score 1 goal, then the finishers are the problem, certainly not the creators. And to take into consideration is that Willian, from what I've seen, is a creator where we simply don't need to strengthen. Furthermore when it comes to finishers we've got Aspas, Sturridge and Suarez (Suarez can work as both, of course, and often will). Aspas is new to the team and it was a solid debut, Sturridge isn't match fit yet managed to score and Suarez will only improve us, along with Borini. Do we need to improve this area? I don't think so, but even if we do Willian is not the answer.

What worries me though is that, like you say, stoke came not to play and still could have scored three goals against us (Huth, Walters x2). It's not like we were the only ones missing chances that game, even though we missed more than Stoke did. But on the other hand, we played a team we will finish comfortably above at Anfield. Had luck not been on our side, we could very well have lost and that was down to our defense in my opinion, not down to our attack.

And yeah, Begovic was out of this world.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

We still look so weak defending set pieces, we are crying out for a dominant centreback.

Bar that, many positives. I think Henderson is a must in the side to add numbers in midfield. Fullbacks and centrebacks, improve them and I honestly think we can challenge for the title.

[Jellies]

I don't think Henderson was the problem, but it may have been Gerrard. Put Henderson's intelligent short passes in place of Gerrard's occassional quarterback 40 yard passes to nowhere, and I think we may have been better at going forward. Also, Coutinho in place of Henderson and a Sterling or Ibe on the wing would've finished the chances better. We just don't need a Stevie to get the ball out to the wings, small passes can do that just fine. I don't know if he's undisciplined or Rodgers told him to do it, but I thought he made a fair share of long hopeful passes yesterday that hindered our build-up play.

[Johnnyboy1973]

Thought we were great for an hour then did the same sort of thing as we did last season.

Sat off them, gave them the upper hand, got nervous and someone has a brain fart. Really needed someone to put their foot on the ball and control the game but we didn't have that person.

But for Mignolet we'd have fucked it up again.

Front three looked good and whilst we were vulnerable to the high ball I dont see any teams outside of Stoke and West Ham that will be exploiting it so readily.

Still not overly convinced by the middle of our park but time will tell.

[Grobbelrevell]

It was an interesting game overall I thought.

There was plenty to fuel the inevitable early season optimism, with some delightfuly fluid and interchangeable attacking at times. Some of our passing, movement and technical profficiency was a joy to witness. So often in seasons gone by we'd look flustered receiving the ball in tight areas or under pressure and that is becoming increasingly rare. Red shirts were happy to receive the ball under pressure on Saturday, confident in their own ability to retain possession as well as in their teammates, to move into the correct areas to offer an outlet. Simple things such as the body shape when receiving the ball is vastly different with the majority of our current crop than it was with certain others in the past. When you consider that two and a half years ago Roy Hodgson was presiding over things, the speed of progress has been impressive.

One thing that stood out to me as key to our effectiveness was the defensive line. It was markedly higher than we saw for the vast majority of last season, which in turn meant a much reduced distance between the defence and attack, with a more compact unit overall - instantly increasing the feasibility of intensively pressing the opposition as a unit, rather than a fractured splinter group, then peering over their shoulders to see the core of the team forty yards behind them, camped on the edge of our eighteen yard box. That worked very well I thought and it led to a host of interceptions within the Stoke half. More interceptions, less last ditch tackles appears to be our mantra. Controlled aggression. There's been some discussion about Lucas and whether his skillset fits our system, but if intelligent pressing is our aim then there are few better than the little Brazilian if he can regain full confidence and fitness.

There were frustrations as well though. The main one being that all of the evident negatives from the performance were the same as last season. We looked vulnerable in defending set pieces, occasionally panicked when placed under pressure in our own defensive third, were again inefficient in the attacking third, which then led directly to a nervous ending to the game, as we seemingly invited Stoke onto us for the last few minutes rather than taking control of events and seeing the game out on our terms.

The negatives do need placing into context though. This was a Stoke City side who we have not fared well against in recent seasons, and one who cause problems aerially for the majority of sides they face. Not only that but they are arguably the most physically imposing opponent in the league. With that in mind, is there an argument to say that we actually did well, all things considered?

Personally, I was impressed by the way that we approached the game. From the first minute the determination and focus was evident, particularly when out of possession in our aggression and intensity to win it back. This squad of players look hungry and focussed and if they can keep producing that consistently then we have a very firm platform to build on.

Just on Mignolet, I thought the reaction to his save towards the end of the first half was interesting. It received probably the biggest cheer of the half, including the goal, and was followed up by several players making a point of congratulating him. He was clearly nervous and probably understandably so, on his debut at Anfield. Hopefully the double save at the end will do him the world of good going forward. The good will and desire to see him succeed is evident from all sides though and that was/is great to see.

Overall I think it's a positive start, despite a few issues still needing a little work. What we have to do now is build on a good result and unlike the whole of last season, create some momentum moving forward. The acid test will come from here on, starting at Villa Park next week.

[ryan125]

I don't know how people can say that the defense was at fault. Keep it reasonably solid like we did at the back and put away our chances and top four is ours. Barca under Guardiola finished almost every game 5-1 for a while there. I really don't mind conceeding, I personally think of all the areas of of our game that could be improved on, finishing would be the number 1. Rogers said as much post match.

[the_red_pill]

Hughes cannily I noticed, played two players pressing all the time on us at the back. Every manager knows we're going to try and play it out from defence, and we nearly got caught with two Stoke players chasing every ball, but luck/skill was on our side today.

You're right about that. Look at Crouch and Etherington pushing right up onto Kolo and Agger.

Apart from the one counterattack in the beginning of the match, I thought we handled Stoke quite well in that regard.
Hope we can manage Villa's counter this Saturday.

[helmboy_nige]

Anyway, thoughts as we once again take our places round the round table and muse on the start of yet another red dawn. False hopes or genuine optimism?

Optimism all the way until we lose to Villa.  It's The Liverpool Way.

But seriously, I am genuinely optimistic about the way we played on Saturday.  We created a great number of chances and while there is concern we didn't put them away, their keeper had a stormer and it was the first real test of our new front 3.

I was still crapping myself everytime they got a set piece because we just look so weak at the back, but we got a win and a clean sheet and blew Stoke away in terms of shots and overall play.

For me Lapso Apso, our new attack dog, looked fab, keen, enthusiastic, already showing the start of a good relationship with Sturridge and some lovely turns and moves. He still looks like a 12 yr old with a knife, but I liked him. We were fluid going forward but once more, as ever, there are questions:

Thought Aspas had a great debut.  His movement and linkup play was superb.  Would have been nice to see him grab a goal, but there is plenty of time.

Do we know what to do in the box?

this was frustrating, particularly in the second half.  I like the patient buildup play and probing the defence, but when we got through we seemed afraid to shoot.  That might partially be down to the groans that come from every moment Enrique shoots, but it is weird.

Seeing us unlock the Stoke defence so many times was awesome though.

But have we changed that much? It looked like a lot of games from last season, plenty of possession, chances and good football but failing to finalise. If all that happens is that we now start to win 1-0 instead of drawing 0-0 I don't care.

It's about taking your chances.  It's hard to say on a sample size of one if we have truly 'turned a corner' but what matters is that we got 3 points in a fixture that last year we got 1 point in.  Only more games will tell us if we have dealt with things.  The key in this match was not conceding after we got the breakthrough.  Stoke deserved nothing but still had a few great chances.

Filet Mignon in goal. Does he fillet or leave a gap where Pepe was?

Man I'm hungry.

Started nervously but boy what a confidence booster that penalty save was, and perhaps more so, the follow up save off his hip. Looked slightly unsure when the ball came into the box, but shot stopping was excellent.

Was willing him to do really well.  He fumbled that cross early on and I could already sense the hatred on RAWK if Huth had scored.  But the luck went his way and from the moment he made that save later in the first half he looked really settled.

I actually thought his distribution was quite good and he made a number of long range passes to set us going.  His footwork was a little dodgy when under pressure, but he'll improve here. That's what we pay coaches for.

Hughes cannily I noticed, played two players pressing all the time on us at the back. Every manager knows we're going to try and play it out from defence, and we nearly got caught with two Stoke players chasing every ball, but luck/skill was on our side today.

And this is were we need to remove the element of luck start to see it as good defensive play.  If the players are skilled and calm enough there is no reason they can't ping it around the back 5 and then exploit the opposition as they try to close us down.  Yes, it gives us heart palpatations and I guarantee we will make mistakes, but the more we play this way the more it will frustrate the opponents into losing shape.

So deja vu? Or definite progress?

Progress in that we played well, didn't concede and scored 3 points when last season we only took 1 against the same opposition.  I get a good team vibe from the players, but let's see how we do in the next 5 or 6 games before we start getting all bouncy!

[sinnermichael]

i didn't see a great deal different to last season to be honest. good going forward, their keeper had a worldy and we still can't defend set pieces. i have kittens everytime we concede a free kick or corner.

[Funky_Gibbons]

i didn't see a great deal different to last season to be honest. good going forward, their keeper had a worldy and we still can't defend set pieces. i have kittens everytime we concede a free kick or corner.

As I said though, is that the game to assess our set-piece defending?

Every year Stoke give opponents problems with their height and physicality at set-pieces. It may not be Pullis in charge any more but they were still aggressive at set-plays.

I think we need to get a few games in before we can comment on our defending. The positive was they didn't create much from open play.

[E2K]

I don’t watch an awful lot of Sunderland, so I don’t know Mignolet that well. What I do know is that (a) he’s fucking massive, and (b) the explosion from the stands when he saved the penalty was arguably the highlight of the entire game. It was electrifying, the reaction to the rebound perhaps even more so, and when the resulting corner was cleared, I thought the old place was actually going to start crumbling. What an atmosphere for the kind of less glamorous fixture that has often played out amid a muted sense of frustrated acceptance, one that’s been a pain in the backside ever since a Steven Gerrard free-kick from about forty yards sailed over everyone’s heads and into the Anfield Road-end net back in August 2008, only for the officials to conjure up an offside touch along the way and disallow the goal. The game ended scoreless, as did the return fixture, and we would ultimately be left rueing both as Rafa’s team came up four points short of the League title in May. That season was the last time before Saturday that Liverpool had won on the opening day, a fact we were beaten around the head with repeatedly before, during and after the game, but it wouldn’t be the last time that Stoke would come to Anfield and frustrate the home side.  Aside from a 4-0 destruction handed out in the early weeks of the difficult 2009/10 season, Liverpool have generally found goals pretty hard to come by in this fixture, and I’m sure I’m not the only supporter who has come to hate the annual visit of Stoke.

In particular, a couple of 0-0 draws at either end of 2012 (January under Kenny, October under Brendan) stand out as pretty frustrating days at the office during two seasons which have seen no shortage of those. On Saturday, though, in one game alone, Liverpool managed more shots on target than in both of those games combined. This team is creating more and more chances, and they’re good chances too – Touré hit the crossbar and Sturridge blazed over the resulting opportunity; Sturridge was narrowly offside for the disallowed goal but finished well nonetheless; Aspas almost had a one-on-one first-half but was off-balance and slashed at the chance; Enrique was in after a brilliant piece of approach work, only to be foiled by Begovic’s legs; Henderson missed a one-on-one, Begovic saving with his legs again; he also hit the post second-half and forced another brilliant, this time full-length, save from the edge of the box; Gerrard also worked the ‘keeper with a fantastic free-kick; Stoke managed to scramble away another opportunity in the second-half from a corner; and Coutinho might have done better after going away down the left and curling his shot just wide. In fact, in terms of quality of chances created, Sturridge’s actual goal ranks somewhere near the bottom of the list.

And it’s not that Stoke were a shadow of their former selves now that Pulis has hung up his baseball hat and tracksuit; they were obstinate, physical, and dangerous from set-pieces, exactly what we’ve come to expect from them over the years (albeit they were clearly trying to play football for a change). But they were battered, well and truly battered, everywhere but the scoreboard. The last time they played Liverpool at Anfield, they actually ended the game with more possession than the home side. Stoke City! No fear of that on Saturday. Liverpool were extremely comfortable and efficient on the ball, as we’ve increasingly come to expect. I don’t like to single out players who have tried their best for the club and, in some cases, contributed well, but what we’re currently seeing from Rodgers’ team is not only like a breath of fresh air, it’s a faceful of cool, bracing, invigorating air that takes the breath away at times. Where once not too long ago we had Adam, Spearing, Kuyt, Downing and Carroll labouring to break down packed defences, we now have the likes of Coutinho, Sturridge and the new boy Aspas playing one-touch, intelligent, positive attacking football and doing it with ease. We also have the small matter of a fully-fit Steven Gerrard who, even in what is likely the twilight of his career, is making this game look ridiculously simple.

There’s a togetherness, a hunger and a cohesion about this team, at least in an attacking sense, and if that’s not a cause for optimism, I don’t know what is. Even a player like Jordan Henderson, once much-maligned for tending towards the invisible and having about as much confidence in front of goal as I would, could have had a hat-trick on Saturday. His run past the midfield for his first-half opportunity, and his positioning on the edge of the box for his two chances second-half, were absolutely excellent and it bodes well for the prospect of spreading the goals around a bit more this season. Aside from that, his industry has become an integral part of the team to the point where £15m Joe Allen has become a useful substitute rather than an integral starter. Aspas was fantastic too. His work leading up to Henderson hitting the post was startlingly good. He closes down a Stoke player, wins possession back, and then he’s off, turned immediately in the direction of the Stoke goal with enough pace and power that no one was catching him, and then picking out the perfect pass for his team mate. The emergence of Henderson as a first-team regular, coupled with the arrival of Aspas, has not only improved the team but also the subs – even without the suspended Suárez, Liverpool boasted a pretty useful-looking bench on Saturday and that will become even more pronounced if the club can push through the Willian deal.

When we talk of how much improved this team is, however, even from this time a year ago, we have to talk once again about Sturridge and Coutinho. No matter the other pieces, when these two play, you know there are goals in this team. Sturridge’s goal was from nothing; Huth switched off for a moment and that was all it took. He also took the disallowed goal very well, and his pace was very difficult for Stoke to handle. When they drew 0-0 at Anfield in January 2012, for example, Stoke had the likes of Kuyt and Carroll to deal with; if pace kills, then Liverpool had effectively brought a knife to a gunfight. Sturridge is a much different animal. As for Coutinho, his movement and sublime passing continues to delight, and it was also interesting to note that some of the typically physical stuff meted out by Stoke didn’t overly bother him (he didn’t even back down from Nzonzi!). Can he do it on a cold Wednesday night at Stoke, though? Well he did it on a rainy afternoon at Anfield against them, so I’m guessing yes…

So, déjà vu or definite progress? Both. I certainly had a familiar feeling as Stoke hit the crossbar from one corner, had a free header cleared off the line from another, and caused pandemonium in the penalty area with the free-kick that led to the penalty. I thought debutant Kolo Touré was largely excellent, but many of the same issues clearly remain at the back, particularly in the air. With that said, Stoke is a team built for set-pieces, so hopefully Saturday isn’t entirely reflective of what’s to come this season (hopefully). In addition, that two-on-two breakaway early in the first-half called to mind so many of those problems we had last season when the opposition broke on us. And we also rekindled our love affair with the woodwork, and we almost threw away two points by not scoring a second goal. So definitely some déjà vu, yes; but oh man, plenty of exciting progress too.

[sattapaartridge]

If we analyse the new players and the returning players, we can see how we're both weak but getting stronger.

Mignolet - his whole performance was nervy, but he managed to make some excellent saves despite the clangers he made when trying to collect the ball. After his magnificent penalty save, all of a sudden, did you see how he collected the ball? With power and authority. This is something that will become a feature throughout the season. He wasnt really relied on with the ball at his feet, but I also think that will improve now that the nerves, in theory, are out of the way.

Toure - he was brilliant, he wasnt troubled at all, his pace seemed to be good. He brought the ball up the field as much as he could. But lets face it, he wasnt really tested enough by Crouch. We had most of the possession too. He's more dominant in the air than I'd though he'd be. He won some headers against Crouch, and powered a header against the bar. I have to say, before he signed I never really noticed him much.

Aspas - I agree with the sentiment that he may be the new Dirk Kuyt with a hell of a lot more ability. He ran his absolute socks off. He should have had a goal though. Hopefully he'll grow, and he wont let missing harm his confidence much. I suppose if you can say anything, then even though his movement and endeavour was good, his finishing needs to start clicking while Suarez is still out.

Sturridge - After no pre-season, he looked pretty sharp upfront, his movement with aspas, Coutinho finding him time and time again, the interplay in and around the penalty area. But his finishing? I have to say, I havent seen a finish like that since Robbie Fowler, he stunned the ball in to the bottom corner. He did start to tire in the 2nd half, I was thinking maybe he should have made way, but the 90 minutes would have done him some good. A fully fit Sturridge is what we all want to see. The offside header was a good one, in terms of connection, timing, jumping etc.

The football was beautiful to watch, the movement in attack, the pressing from Henderson (probably most underrated thing in the game) and the way Coutinho drifted, reminded me of when McManaman drifted whereever he wanted. Henderson should have had a goal too.

I do think we're slightly soft in the centre, but we are still growing as a team. You can see the mental toughness developing in the team with little Coutinho squaring up to N'Zonzi. Coutinho for me, was the footballing man of the match, he was everywhere, playing some brilliant passes.

Enrique had an okay game, but he was the weakest link. Some of this distribution was poor, but his defensive work was good.

Overall, I think this is a match that if we didnt swap Mignolet for Reina, we would have draw or even lost the game. So credit to the management team. We need to carry this onto Villa, keep momentum going and be wary of their fast pace on the counter.

[the_red_pill]

i didn't see a great deal different to last season to be honest. good going forward, their keeper had a worldy and we still can't defend set pieces. i have kittens everytime we concede a free kick or corner.

I think the difference would be subtle.

There's not a lot that we can improve on at this level. We have 2 terrific strikers, we have very good players in most positions and maybe we've improved even further(LB- Cissokho). We had an already good enough squad last season. Our problems were mainly our penchant for conceding, our physical fragility and our mentality.

On Saturday, there was evidence that we may have improved in those areas. A change in mentality has led to a 1-0 "win", which is what Rodgers desired.


The main theme in Rodgers' concerns towards the end of last season- since the loss at Ye Olde Toilette, was a lack of the desired mentality(not individual quality), including the lack of leadership at the back. He expressed the hope of "turning the draws into wins" a few times towards the end and spoke of making signings, but they need to have "the right mentality".


An improvement in this area would lead to an improvement in the face of bullying, goals conceded, improved "teamwork"(workrate, support, pressing to win back the ball). This is what I think we can look forward to- a more cohesive unit whose advantage is that it multiplies the abilities of each of it's members. If you look at last season's results- it wasn't down to us being directly inferior.. The start was due to a lack of knowledge of what the manager wanted to see and us conceding needless goals. Only towards the end- when we more of a threat upfront and we started pressing in 3's and working for each other, did we shore up the defense(in addition to Jamie).

As PoP mentioned- we need to win 4 games more than last season- if we go by last season's high tally for 4th- to at least get in.
If we have an improvement in our mentality, I think we'll see less goals conceded, which means "turning the draws into wins". The result of our fragility last season was not the losses- it was the many draws.

[Tony Clueless]

Some great opinions/insight on here

[Caffeine]

Great read.

[Grobbelrevell]

Some great opinions/insight on here

The best thread on RAWK for me. Certainly the one I look forward to most anyway, regardless of the result.

[redmark]

I don't think Henderson was the problem, but it may have been Gerrard. Put Henderson's intelligent short passes in place of Gerrard's occassional quarterback 40 yard passes to nowhere, and I think we may have been better at going forward. Also, Coutinho in place of Henderson and a Sterling or Ibe on the wing would've finished the chances better. We just don't need a Stevie to get the ball out to the wings, small passes can do that just fine. I don't know if he's undisciplined or Rodgers told him to do it, but I thought he made a fair share of long hopeful passes yesterday that hindered our build-up play.

Gerrard completed more short passes than anyone else on the pitch (and at a better completion rate than Lucas or Henderson). See what you want to see.

[DanA]

I don't think last season we were ever as comfortable in possession playing out of the back as we were against Stoke. Maybe it's just me but I thought Stoke pressed intelligently and aggressively but to no effect. We comfortably played around them which is a credit to not just Tours but the back 6 plus Mignolet.

[lamonti]

My friend who I was watching with said on about 80 minutes, we'll need a bit of luck to see this through. You could tell, couldn't you that it was all going to happen again. The stupidity of Reina dropping the ball to Chamakh on his debut, or Flanagan switching off and Downing thundering one against the bar. Or the seeming thousands of other 1-1s where we spurned chances and sighed wearily in the aftermath about spurned chances.

And then it did happen again. Nervous all days from not particularly dangerous crosses, Agger, inexplicably does whatever the fuck that was and gives away a legit penalty. And then Mignolet intervened. And the crowd erupted - that was awesome! Like a big cup win. Brilliant to get the deserved three points here, but frustrating to come up against another one of those fucking MOTM goalies. At least Begovic is generally really good, and not some Championship slummer having the only worldie of his career at Anfield.

I though Coutinho was good but also dealt with pretty well by Stoke especially in one-on-ones. If you keep giving him the ball, in all likelihood he will open you up, but at the same time he could've done better on the easy pass to Aspas for example and maybe on a couple of other occasions. There seems to be tendency to blow smoke up his after no matter what he does, which is dangerous. I saw an "every touch" compilation after the game that seemed to edit out when he lost the ball.

Formation wise, I couldn't really tell what we were playing. Henderson struggled to get in the game from his station, but then appeared in numerous goal-scoring opportunities. He's not much of a finisher (he only has one shot, curling it with either instep and never shoots through with the laces or toe-pokes) but in all but one case he was unfortunate to be denied by Begovic. The one he hit straight at him was poor, but at least he took the shot on with his left as he did on another occasion also. If he could finish regularly he would be a star.


Mignolet looked nervy until the end of the game with crosses, presumably because he knew we were unlikely to head them clear. His proper saves were all excellent though. His distribution is still noticeably poorer and more uncomfortable than Reina's. Unfortunately the only way through that is to persevere until he is comfortable. I thought Johnson helped him out big time by being so calm on the ball and he really made a couple of difficult ones look really easy.

Others worthy of a mention - Kolo Toure also had an excellent debut. There's still a note of uneasiness when the ball is bobbling around against these teams. When it's on the deck we're pretty assured, but once the ball is breaking we aren't the best at clearing it up. Sturridge was excellent for a guy coming back from injury. So talented. Linked up with Aspas and Coutinho particularly well and you know he will continue to do so. So exciting, he will score an awful lot this season.

Delighted to get the three points and the confidence boost that comes from the nature of the victory. Hopefully next time we have a match like that we go 2-0 up and we will be more assured.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

I was pleased to hear Mignolet admitting during his post-match interview that he was really nervous in the first 15-20 minutes, as it was clear that the occasion was playing on his mind during that time. I was also pleased to see that he obviously got a load of support both at half time from his team mates and during the rest of the match from the fans, because he was far more in command of his area in the second half.

What impressed me the most though was the clear unity on the pitch between the players, you could sense they wanted that win to get off to the best posible start and they weren't giving up on it. The look on Agger's face when he gave away the penno said it all, he looked like a man who was about to get an earful of stick from his team mates - I hope that Simon enjoys that pint he's due from Danny. But there was a very visible team spirit flowing through the lads on Saturday, and I hope that it will continue to build through the course of the season. You can have 11 world class superstars on the pitch, but if they don't get along you'll win fuck all. If Saturday is anything to go by, we've got a real chance to surprise a few naysayers this season.

[redmark]

Overall, I think we controlled the ball well for an hour, and controlled space pretty well after that. The slightly disappointing spell wasn't for me when we had dropped off and became a little nervous, but the 10 minutes or so between those parts of the game, when our intensity dropped and we allowed Stoke to get the ball down, play themselves back into a positive frame of mind and gave them the impetus for the last 10-15 minutes. Rodgers perhaps failed to respond during that period and we didn't use our bench as we might have done; either Borini for a tiring Sturridge, or Ibe as well as Sterling if we wanted to stretch them and counter.

Aspas benefited I think from a position behind the striker which surprised Stoke, and from the attention they paid Coutinho. While Aspas may be given more attention in future, that should itself give Coutinho more space; it's encouraging that we have multiple creative options to trouble the opposition. Gerrard and Lucas kept the ball moving fluently, dominating possession and space against a more physical midfield trio - but were perhaps allowed to some degree as it sat off, forced to worry about the attacking quartet's movement and interaction. Henderson has good attacking instincts cutting in and bombing on from either flank (Saturday's was a role, essentially, little removed from the one Dalglish had tried to use him in, to less effect and which earned the player damning criticism).

The reaction of the players to the penalty double-save - and they were all still aware of the corner to come - seemed to be a significant moment of a team coming together and a statement of belief. Mignolet's nerves showed a couple of times in front of the kop, but saves in each half bode well. The telegraphed slowly chipped passes to the fullbacks will be noted by other managers, however, and we'll need to add variety or better out ball options to avoid being caught out with those in the coming weeks. Agger's late meltdown was a reminder that he's an infinitely better player when we defend not just higher, but more confidently. We still need to learn how to kill a game off, either by scoring more goals or passing the opposition into surrender. When we lost intensity and then control of the ball in the second half, we invited an onslaught and were perhaps fortunate it never really came.

[DanA]

Formation wise, I couldn't really tell what we were playing. Henderson struggled to get in the game from his station, but then appeared in numerous goal-scoring opportunities. He's not much of a finisher (he only has one shot, curling it with either instep and never shoots through with the laces or toe-pokes) but in all but one case he was unfortunate to be denied by Begovic.

It was something close to a 4-2-3-1 but I would have said 4-2-2-2 as Aspas wasn't any more of a midfielder than Sturridge. Henderson was quite wide for most of the game.

I would like to see Henderson put his foot through a ball but I think he'll score plenty this season.

[Yorkykopite]

The accent is on pace and skill, quick movement and quick passing. That's the sort of team that Rodgers said he wanted to build when he first came here. One by one we got rid of the players who didn't operate on the Rodgers level. Their replacements are different kinds of players - Rodgers has yet to buy a player who relies on effort alone.  Even before the game began it was sufficient to look at the Liverpool bench and wonder at the youth and quality we now possess. Then there was another Liverpool player sitting in the stands with his daughter who can play a bit too. And it seems we're in hot pursuit of a third Brazilian with a bit of technique to his game as well. You've got to like what the manager is trying to do.

Yesterday the debutants did well. Kolo Toure in particular made a significant contribution and indicated Liverpool may well press higher up the pitch this season. He's so much more mobile than Jamie ever was of course. He's also stronger in the air. At least twice he followed his man ten to fifteen yards into the opponent's half to win possession for Liverpool. And the Kop feasted its eyes on a thunderous defensive header as early as the 3rd minute. And surely his first goal can't be far away. He attacks the ball in the air does Toure, and his leaps are prodigious. When he does score for us expect to see him go beserk. He's played for some very big clubs in England but something in his manner suggests that he knows that this is the biggest one. Enjoy it lad.

Mignolet was jittery in the first half hour. Crouch provoked him into a flap at the far post. He dithered on the ball a couple of times and didn't seem to possess the assured Pepe Reina first touch which encouraged the Stoke forwards to hurtle towards him every time there was a back pass. But then a beautifully athletic save to deny Walters steadied the lad and he was flawless from then on. What did we find out about him? He can kick long with both left and right peg. And he can dive equally competently to left and right. We didn't see him punch and we barely saw him catch - which was odd since the opponents were Stoke. But he looks to have decent pace and a great physique - so probably not the sort of goalie that forwards enjoy attacking in the air. The penalty save was heavenly. I liked the way he limbered up for it, spreading his arms wide, then pinging the crossbar up and down and generally given Walters the impression that there were two goalkeepers on the line.

Aspas was very decent. A hugely willing player and a selfless one too. His movement, both beyond the defence and in coming back to collect, was clever. Some of his close control was a bit scruffy but he produced the assist of the afternoon when he slipped in Jordan Henderson in the second half. You wonder how many chances he'll get throughout the course of the season, especially if Sturridge continues to fire. It was a wee bit frustrating sometimes to see both men having to cut in from the right to get the ball on their left peg. With Johnson's habit of doing the same when he overlaps I felt we didn't test the left-hand side of their defence as much as we could. 

Three other players I want to mention. Wilson for them. If Stoke passed it was because of him. And Lucas and Johnson for us. Both were excellent. Lucas was pressing so high in the first half - partly, I guess, because Kolo Toure was capable of following him up the pitch and keeping the gap between them manageable. I do hope we see more of this - not least because it's nice to have your best passer in a position to deliver the ball into the channels and the penalty box. The lad was also mighty in the way he attacked the ball. Stoke like to think they're the hardest team in the league, but its a vain hope when you have Lucas Leiva on the pitch. Utterly fearless in the challenge - both on the deck and in the air. I thought a couple of their 'hard nuts' (Whelan for one) didn't fancy it on Saturday because they knew Lucas was snapping at their heels.

And Glen Johnson. How much running did that man do? An attacking threat for a good deal of the game, and rapid defensive cover when it was needed.

A very decent start by the boys. Villa next weekend. They played a team of demoralised pussy-cats on Saturday. Liverpool will be harder for them. Much harder.   

[exiledinyorkshire]

I take your point, we did created a bucketload of chances but that sort of goes along with my point.

Rodgers' front four usually consists of two creators and two finishers, in theory anyway though it's not very rigid. Either way, it's obvious to me anyway that if we create 15 chances and score 1 goal, then the finishers are the problem, certainly not the creators. And to take into consideration is that Willian, from what I've seen, is a creator where we simply don't need to strengthen. Furthermore when it comes to finishers we've got Aspas, Sturridge and Suarez (Suarez can work as both, of course, and often will). Aspas is new to the team and it was a solid debut, Sturridge isn't match fit yet managed to score and Suarez will only improve us, along with Borini. Do we need to improve this area? I don't think so, but even if we do Willian is not the answer.

What worries me though is that, like you say, stoke came not to play and still could have scored three goals against us (Huth, Walters x2). It's not like we were the only ones missing chances that game, even though we missed more than Stoke did. But on the other hand, we played a team we will finish comfortably above at Anfield. Had luck not been on our side, we could very well have lost and that was down to our defense in my opinion, not down to our attack.

And yeah, Begovic was out of this world.

yep you are quite right in all that you say, and I agree with you. but Rodgers is not looking at that game on Saturday and worrying too much about his defence, he will be looking at it and saying 15 shots on target and one goal. WTF.

Every time he speaks or has spoken about it he has clearly identified more goals as his number one area to improve on. And I genuinely think that's the way he has been going about his building process. He has also stated on a number of occasions that he wants one of his midfield trio to be capable of chipping in to the goal count. Allens preseason work and hendos 3 great chances on Saturday all point to lots of work going on at training to make this happen, we can only assume that lots of work has been going on for the committee in this regard too. As far as willian goes, I don't really know, everybody seemed to piss their pants when he was first mentioned ( I have never seen him play) and now there is a hang on he's not that good caveat.

Sturridge looks like goals, coutinho and aspas look like goals. Suarez is most deffo goals. Borini, well he's a goal scorer a real clever mover and taker of tap ins, he will find his place off the bench if we keep creating I reckon. Then you move back and the goals aren't so prominent, Stevie isn't going to be a 16-20 goal machine anymore, so where do they come from? I think the answer is Coutinho central, which with Downing gone leaves us with Ibe and Sterling as genuine wingers. That's the logic I see with Willian or a willian type incomer.

But what do I know. Its all guess work really. I do trust Brendan though. If he really wants a player, I tend to try and work out why? whats the logic? rather than think he's got it wrong. I totally get every single signing he has made, Borini has had a mare, and Joe hasn't had it smooth, but after Mings double save on Saturday, I cant say that I think he has put a foot wrong yet in the transfer market. Next one in needs to improve something about our game instantly though, and if 30m is genuinely going to be spent, then I hope it feels like 30m well spent come xmas.

i'm backing Rodgers. if he isn't that fussed about our defence then until we can clearly see it as having been our downfall i'm with the Ulsterman. I feel sure another CB will come in though anyway. I don't think Wisdom is ready yet.

[Corkboy]

Three other players I want to mention. Wilson for them. If Stoke passed it was because of him.

Not having seen the game, I was interested in this. Marc Wilson started most games for Stoke last season at full back, although Pulis acknowledged he was more of a midfielder. Then Hughes came in and bought a Dutch international full back in Erik Pieters, so when Palacios was down to start against us, you might worry for Wilson. Ireland aren't exactly overflowing with quality midfielders right now so good news for us if he impressed Hughes as much as you.

[Grobbelrevell]

It was something close to a 4-2-3-1 but I would have said 4-2-2-2 as Aspas wasn't any more of a midfielder than Sturridge. Henderson was quite wide for most of the game.

I recall looking down and seeing a very clear 4-3-3 when out of possession in the first half, on more than one occasion. It certainly changed during the course of the game though to all kinds of variations, depending on whether we were in or out of possession. The flexibility of the individual players and in turn, the team itself is a positive in my eyes.

He's played for some very big clubs in England but something in his manner suggests that he knows that this is the biggest one. Enjoy it lad.

I think it has an awful lot to do with the way he was frozen out at Manchester City to be honest. In short, he feels he has a point to prove and he's said as much himself. Regardless of what the motivation is though, we'll benefit and it looks as though it will be fun to watch as it unfolds.

[paddysour]

I thought it was most like a 4-4-1-1, with Aspas behind Sturridge and Henderson on the right. I found it really surprising as I expected a 433. I wonder will we see more of that, it would mean that once Suarez comes back we won't have to put him on a flank and worry about his tracking back.

[DanA]

I recall looking down and seeing a very clear 4-3-3 when out of possession in the first half, on more than one occasion. It certainly changed during the course of the game though to all kinds of variations, depending on whether we were in or out of possession. The flexibility of the individual players and in turn, the team itself is a positive in my eyes.

I think it has an awful lot to do with the way he was frozen out at Manchester City to be honest. In short, he feels he has a point to prove and he's said as much himself. Regardless of what the motivation is though, we'll benefit and it looks as though it will be fun to watch as it unfolds.

I can see that. I thought we were asymmetrical with Henderson on the right playing much deeper and wider than Coutinho on the left. Henderson deployed perhaps to counter the Pieter/Etherington threat and to free Johnson up. Coutinho definately more centrally but not still on the left before the sub.

[DanA]

I think if you look at the average position graph we can get some information from it.


* A back four playing a relatively high line. Johnson (2) particularly aggressively deployed. 
* A double pivot with Lucas (21) and Gerrard (8.) similarly placed
* Aspas (9) and Sturridge (15) were both more strikers than midfielders though both dropped into the hole.
* Henderson (14) rather conservatively deployed supporting Johnson

* Coutinho (10) the only one that I think is a bit off because he was moved after the sub. Before that he was playing wider though still dropping into midfield far more than Henderson.

[steveeastend]

Before looking at this game I wanna state a thing or two on last season as, to me, it´s impossible to judge this game without it.

I think this last season was a pretty remarkable one, Rodgers made it happen to steady a burning ship, give it a new direction and bring everyone on board. He implemented a new style with players not really suited for this, while working behind the scenes to change the squad for his overall approach with reacting to the short term problems in order to get as many points as possible and I think he did an outstanding job considering the pressure within and outside of the club which was the reason to me to look at last seasons games not only from a results point of view.

This season though will be different. Results will be very important and after a full pre seasons, players knowing Rodgers system and the majority of the players which were not suited gone, there is a lot more to be expected from this team compared to this last, very difficult one.

Considering this, I think this game was more or less what I was expecting to see after our pre season. We dominated, we played a high line, we passed the ball pretty quick and created lots of chances. As a side effect, a possession game, with playing a high line, keeps away the opponent from our own box and works pretty much for an approach for defending which Rodgers seems to be going for again, after giving up on this in a lot of games during last season.

Unfortunately, the rare occassions when Stoke made it into our box were pretty chaotic defending from our part though, still, and in this respect nothing has changed compared to last season.  It´s also pretty astonishing to me how the majority of the posters here seemed to be having a total different impression here as I thought Toure couldn´t offer any improvement in this matter. Yes, his passing is great, his reading of the game isn´t bad either and there are glimpses of the player he once was but overall he has been shaky and late when defending in the box. We looked the same here as last season and I don´t want to think of us defending like this against better teams. There will be way quicker attacking players coming around, way more clinical ones and I expect us to be improving here compared to last season. Giving away opportunities like we did against a team like Stoke isn´t a good sign in this respect, Stoke shouldn´t be a test here, although people stating different, and it seems that our organisation in defense to be Rodgers Achilles' heel. He doesn´t seem to rate Skrtel, fair enough, but if so then we should sell as soon as possible and bring in a proven, young and strong center back as it would be a big gamble to rely on Toure as our second first choice CB for an entire season. Keeping Skrtel, paying him good wages while not playing him would be wasteful which we cannot affort, that´s for sure, just as it´s not enough to bring in players with shouting abilities for relying on them organising our defense. (Sorry for putting it that melodramatic).

In terms of our attacking play, scoring abilities I think we are almost there though. There is a little bit of quality missing in the final third still, hopefully the Willian transfer will work out, but overall I have to admit that my hope for being ready without Suarez after pre season was a tad little too optimistic.  We need him and I am curious how long it will take for Suarez for making it from being the traitor back to the saviour...?

Overall it was an entertaining game, I liked it especially when Adam tested Magnolet, with a lots of positives, team spirit, overall passsing and tactical discipline, which shouldn´t deflact from the fact that we played Stoke City at home, not Barca away, or Tottenham, these were expected three points and we did the job, not more, not less.

[Jizzinho]

Hi everyone – first time poster on this thread – really love it and wanted to add my two pence! I agree with pretty much everything that has been written above and I’m impressed with the way we are setting up.

It’s pretty obvious this will be another transitional year – we still don’t know our best team (Henderson or Allen? Sterling or new signing) or our best formation and only when we go into a season with these questions settled can we properly expect a year of consolidation.

Having said that, I was struck by a remark that Kolo made recently that our team is more cohesive than the one he joined at Manchester City - it is possible that if we catch the season right there are enough things up-in-air that we could produce a suprising result – by that I mean finishing better than just “top four”.

As far as I can see from this match our forward movement has massively improved under Brendan. I remember there was a GIF of a passing move that was being endlessly played from Rafa’s time here where we were pinging the ball about like a pinball table before (eventually) missing the shot. We are now seeing moves like that regularly in matches – both at the end of last season and the start of this one.


Different story in defence. From what I could see against Stoke we still weren’t working hard enough at the back for the man on the ball which often put us under pressure. The number of times a player would pass backwards and then fail to move into space to receive the ball was infuriating – and of course we aren’t working hard enough to stop crosses coming in.

I think part of the reason is because Brendan is introducing his changes to our play in phases and this is some way down the “to-do” list.

General mobility in the back line has been massively improved however with the swapping of Kolo for Carra. Playing a high line obviously requires a great deal of trust between defenders and the keeper and this can only have been enhanced after Mig’s fantastic save.

Seeing Kolo belting up the pitch at a late stage was also hugely encouraging. As far as I’m concerned he’s an instant cult hero and further evidence we are filling the team with all kinds of crazy nutbars. Or at least “colourful” personalities.

No matter how well we drill and train the players there is often a psychological glass ceiling that they hit and they need a bit of craziness or genius to drag them through it – a Cantona or a Balotelli if you will.

With our team we appear to have a bit of both and we could soon find that we are more reliant on Coutinho than Suarez.

Fantastic start – haven’t felt this kind of optimism since Rafa was here; now let’s go give those brummies a smackdown!

[AK47]

Good game and a good 3 points, also good to get a debut 'under fire' for the new boys. To me we are still a work in progress: attack = good; midfield = good; defence = still a little shaky.

Just my opinion, but as we have so many attacking options I think (short term) we could profit from a 'we score more than you' approach to play, so wining games 4-2 or 5-3 etc. Not necessarily a bad thing for entertainment and while it won't win you the league, it should get a top 4 CL place, leaving us to strengthen defence in January/next season.

[Henry Kissinger]

After the loss to Celtic, I was very concerned coming into this game. Celtic and Stoke are physically strong teams and I wondered how the players would deal with this. Despite some extremely scary moments I thought we handled it a lot better than previous seasons. Toure was dominant on Saturday, never looked like being muscled off the ball or intimidated by Crouch, Huth et al.

Much has already been said about our movement up front, which is positively ejaculation-inducing, and I for one am enormously optimistic for the future. Whether we manage to break into the top 4 will depend on other teams above us dropping off I think, as we are still a young, upcoming team. Feels weird saying that about Liverpool FC.

In regard to the spirit in the side that shined through against Stoke, it really does feel like 2001 again when Ged galvanised a youngish side and took them to 3 trophies and a CL spot.

[Ronster]

I thought Toure and Aspas were sensational for their first true competitive match for us. I actually felt less confident when Aspas came off and he looked gutted when he saw his number. We lost a bit of shape then and our options noticeably decreased. Also when we lost possession Stoke had alot of space in the middle of the park for those last 20mins and we didnt start to close down until they were threatening our 18yrd. i just think Aspas was up with the pace of the game and should of had 10 more mins. My man of the match was Enrique, he was faultless.

[John C]

Brilliant stuff everyone, I was going to post something I started last night and added to throughout the day but having just listened to TAW it'll seem like I'm simply copying them. Its as if my mind was in the studio when they recorded it, even down to a remark about a "slide-rule"pass wondering if that phrase itself will cause debate like last time.

But it does seem like we have patented the threaded pass for ourselves doesn't it. Its not just Coutinho that's doing them, they come from every player & from any angle. Its glorious football which you lot have already described wonderfully.

I posted a few weeks ago that Kolo was likely to become a cult hero here, and now I'm assured of it. The pain & anguish on his face when he headed against the bar and the sheer joy when Mignolet saved the penalty is emotional proof of how he appreciates the opportunity he's been given here - and we will appreciate it back on numerous occasions throughout this season. Love the fella.

It was typical how well Stoke held their shape it Begovic, who had a display of the season, to be wrong-footed to be beaten. He seemed to move to his right in an obscured view as Sturridge shaped up and couldn't re-adjust his feet to get down to the ball.

But recognition must go to every single player for that fantastic display albeit we surprisingly faded in the end. I was a bit concerned when we conceded some ground defending the lead and perhaps a couple of subs may have been pertinent.

After controlling the game and the effort the players put in, to have drawn would have been a massive blow to them all. A wonderfully welcome to the start of our campaign, I delighted for our evidently happy group of players and the manager.

[Weytske]

I thought Toure and Aspas were sensational for their first true competitive match for us. I actually felt less confident when Aspas came off and he looked gutted when he saw his number. We lost a bit of shape then and our options noticeably decreased. Also when we lost possession Stoke had alot of space in the middle of the park for those last 20mins and we didnt start to close down until they were threatening our 18yrd. i just think Aspas was up with the pace of the game and should of had 10 more mins. My man of the match was Enrique, he was faultless.

I feel we didn't hold on to the ball enough in the second half because we kept trying to break fast but kept losing the ball. The cohesion fell a bit and indeed we gave away a lot of space in the middle, we needed to bring some rest to the team and advance as a whole in my opinion. I liked Aspas' movement and speed of play, Sturridge and Coutinho also played really well but had too many situations where they attempt at dribbling three man on the central edge of the area and we lose possesion to easely where other teams will punish us for that on the counter.