Topic: Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel Partnership

[El Denzel Pepito]

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/02/29/Agger-blow-for-Reds-/gnid-132648/

Out for a month, apparently.

[rossipersempre]

Coates isnt ready for this kind of test yet.

You make him sound like some teenage recruit from Crewe. When in reality...

[Hunter Thompson]

How did Uruguay ever manage to win the Copa America with that unorganised pansy Coates at centre back. Thank fuck they didn't come up against any decent attackers.

[farawayred]

I find the terms related to getting an injury bizarre... "He picked up and injury" is like you walk down the street, see a shiny coin and pick it up. Or, "he injured himself in that game", like he got on the side, picked a hammer and smashed it against a bone... As if some of the blame is transferred to the injured player in any event... Weird.

Anyway, get well soon Danny and I hope to see more of Coates.

[El_Pistolero]

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/02/29/Agger-blow-for-Reds-/gnid-132648/

Out for a month, apparently.

Balls.

[Eeyore]

Was listening to TAW last night and I agree Kenny has to start Carra against Arsenal, especially if Van Persil plays.
Skrtel has more confidence now and wont be so subdued by Carra's shouting etc and can have the confidence to play on the left of the back two.
Coates isnt ready for this kind of test yet.

You can't throw someone into a Premiership game when they have only kept a clean sheet against the likes of Higuain, Tevez, Aguero, Messi and Di Maria in the knockout stage of the Copa America. Keeping four clean sheets in row against Mexico, Argentina, Peru and Paraguay just isn't good enough.

We should go for Ingerlunds 20th best Centre back instead.

[rossipersempre]

You can't throw someone into a Premiership game when they have only kept a clean sheet against the likes of Higuain, Tevez, Aguero, Messi and Di Maria in the knockout stage of the Copa America. Keeping four clean sheets in row against Mexico, Argentina, Peru and Paraguay just isn't good enough.

We should go for Ingerlunds 20th best Centre back instead.

But but he's not ready, it's too big a test, he's far too inexperienced, blah blah blah....Carragher, vast experience, club legend....blah blah blah

[rocco]

You make him sound like some teenage recruit from Crewe. When in reality...

Yet but was only called into the squad for the copa amercia and has only a few games at international level under his belt and only 50-55 games at club level , still plenty of time for Coates.
I'd love to see him be no 3 choice pushing for a starting spot but can see Kennys thinking on this and IMO its not conspiracy theory as stated above.

[rossipersempre]

Yet but was only called into the squad for the copa amercia and has only a few games at international level under his belt and only 50-55 games at club level , still plenty of time for Coates.

That isn't the actual Copa America he's holding by the way, it's the award for best young player of the tournament. Not bad for a newbie.

As for this "plenty of time", it's like you're saying the opposite for Carragher, which further suggests you're picking him for sentimental reasons rather than football ones.

[steve10]

If Carra starts against Arsenal we will be playing with 10 men instead of 11 because he will end up with a red card. Agger"s injury is bad news for the team. It has to be Coates or Kelly who start before Carra.

[farawayred]

That isn't the actual Copa America he's holding by the way, it's the award for best young player of the tournament. Not bad for a newbie.

Yeah, but that's because most other players were older, plus he was a buddy with the MVP of the tournament. But what has he won with his clubs? Aside from the two titles with Nacional...

[shelovesyou]

You can't throw someone into a Premiership game when they have only kept a clean sheet against the likes of Higuain, Tevez, Aguero, Messi and Di Maria in the knockout stage of the Copa America. Keeping four clean sheets in row against Mexico, Argentina, Peru and Paraguay just isn't good enough.

We should go for Ingerlunds 20th best Centre back instead.

No need for that attitude mate, we all know you despise the mere existence of Carra but have some sense.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

All I want to do is point out, once more, that if Kenny makes a decision of player a over player b, it is not because "he is weak and unable to make the tough decisions" or "because player b is too powerful" or "politics" or whatever other shit. He is making a decision, which is his fucking job. A job he has done with success, and which not one person in this thread has ever done.
It could be the wrong decision - in which case he will get slaughtered or the right one. But he is making it because he feels, based on his lifetime of experience, it is the right one.
Argue about experience over current ability all you want, but stop with this bullshit digs at Kenny because he choses a player you don't rate or doesn't pick the guy you want.
Your opinion is just that, not undisputed fact.

[rocco]

That isn't the actual Copa America he's holding by the way, it's the award for best young player of the tournament. Not bad for a newbie.

As for this "plenty of time", it's like you're saying the opposite for Carragher, which further suggests you're picking him for sentimental reasons rather than football ones.

I think at this stage Cara is the right choice but just because I haven't seen enough of Coates and the little I've seen I'm not sure he is ready
Yes I know what the trophy was for young player of the copa.

Coates looks like he will be a great player for us but like I've said Cara just gets the nod for now

[shelovesyou]

You make him sound like some teenage recruit from Crewe. When in reality...

Not my intention of course but you get what I mean.
Its a very important game for our ambitions of catching up on that 4th place.
Id go for an old head over a young lad with very little experience in the league.

[farawayred]

No need for that attitude mate, we all know you despise the mere existence of Carra but have some sense.

See, the only thing in Carra's defense is his age and experience. But experience is incorrectly equated to good experience. You can be an moderately skilled car mechanic all your life, but some kid who's worked in a car shop for only a few years can turn a lot better. Experience is not always good experience.

[Cpt_Reina]

Its as if people think the Copa America is just some joke of a cup that amounts to nothing more then some sort of youth tournament.

Its kind of a big deal. And Coates was at the heart of Uruguay's defence when they won it. And he was individually singled out for praise, as evident from his young player award.

Is he not being taken seriously because he looks like Jim Halpert?

All this 'inexperience' guff is garbage. He's a very good defender. Better then Carra, thats why he deserves to be selected over him.

He's also a bloody good paper salesman.

[rocco]

Not my intention of course but you get what I mean.
Its a very important game for our ambitions of catching up on that 4th place.
Id go for an old head over a young lad with very little experience in the league.

+1

And another plus I think Cara is at his best after a good rest.

[rossipersempre]

If Carra starts against Arsenal we will be playing with 10 men instead of 11 because he will end up with a red card. Agger"s injury is bad news for the team. It has to be Coates or Kelly who start before Carra.

10 if we're lucky. I'd go for 9 given that the acres of wasteland in midfield caused by Carragher setting up a beach head 10 yards from Pepe's line, will be ripe for one of Charlie Adam's "special" tackles.

[shelovesyou]

See, the only thing in Carra's defense is his age and experience. But experience is incorrectly equated to good experience. You can be an moderately skilled car mechanic all your life, but some kid who's worked in a car shop for only a few years can turn a lot better. Experience is not always good experience.

And whilst I appreciate what your saying there mate, for me, its far too important to put the young lad in that position.
Hey, Kenny might throw a curve ball and put Kelly in there for all we know, but just my view of course.

[shelovesyou]

Its as if people think the Copa America is just some joke of a cup that amounts to nothing more then some sort of youth tournament.

Its kind of a big deal. And Coates was at the heart of Uruguay's defence when they won it. And he was individually singled out for praise, as evident from his young player award.

Is he not being taken seriously because he looks like Jim Halpert?

All this 'inexperience' guff is garbage. He's a very good defender. Better then Carra, thats why he deserves to be selected over him.

He's also a bloody good paper salesman.

The Copa America is not something I personally pay much attention to but experience is important, you cannot deny that.

[rossipersempre]

Not my intention of course but you get what I mean.
Its a very important game for our ambitions of catching up on that 4th place.
Id go for an old head over a young lad with very little experience in the league.

Why? Because the "young lad with little experience in the league" is infinitely more likely to fuck up/get ripped to shreds than Carragher?

[rocco]

See, the only thing in Carra's defense is his age and experience. But experience is incorrectly equated to good experience. You can be an moderately skilled car mechanic all your life, but some kid who's worked in a car shop for only a few years can turn a lot better. Experience is not always good experience.

Caras experience is at the top level for years not some back street club/garage

To be honest I'd like Cara to be on the bench as back up and soon to retire but has to get the nod for now

[rocco]

Why? Because the "young lad with little experience in the league" is infinitely more likely to fuck up/get ripped to shreds than Carragher?

it's not that , We now what we will get from Cara more do than Coates just a pity Coates has got more games before now

[shelovesyou]

Why? Because the "young lad with little experience in the league" is infinitely more likely to fuck up/get ripped to shreds than Carragher?

Think youve answered yer own question there.
Anyway, thats the way Id go but im not the manager so who knows, if he goes for Coates then I wish the lad the best of luck and hope he does well.

[Red_Rich]

http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2012/02/29/Agger-blow-for-Reds-/gnid-132648/

Out for a month, apparently.

Thankfully, we're at home for 4 out of 5 in that time.

[rowan_d]

Thankfully, we're at home for 4 out of 5 in that time.

lol?

[rossipersempre]

See, the only thing in Carra's defense is his age and experience. But experience is incorrectly equated to good experience. You can be an moderately skilled car mechanic all your life, but some kid who's worked in a car shop for only a few years can turn a lot better. Experience is not always good experience.

I would also argue that experience isn't necessarily aggregated with time. You can have 36 years experience but it's really just 2 years' experience 18 times over. As the career of a certain owl-faced c*nt clearly shows.

There's a tipping point where experience is outweighed by what a player lacks in terms of overall contribution. Unlike Sami when he left, Carragher passed that threshold long ago.

[farawayred]

And whilst I appreciate what your saying there mate, for me, its far too important to put the young lad in that position.
Hey, Kenny might throw a curve ball and put Kelly in there for all we know, but just my view of course.

I understand what you are saying. We may be split in this thread on who is better suited to start, but we all know that Carra will start.

The issue I have with that is how that affects the balance of the entire team ahead of Carra - the deep back line, the gap in the middle when we don't have anyone capable of filling one of Lucas' shoes, the 'wide' players that will drift in to cover, which will result in the isolation of the forward(s). In some sense the game resembles chaotic motion of particles in a rectangular field. (Don't confuse chaos with disorder, chaos fills all the space between order and disorder. Chaos has repeating patterns although not exactly repeating motives as in order.) When you think of it like that, something has to fill a gap if a gap exists. I think that we were spoiled with our Agger-Skrtel partnership because they minimized that gap. I'm amazed how often we see them both in the opposition half and I don't mean for corners!

[farawayred]

I would also argue that experience isn't necessarily aggregated with time. You can have 36 years experience but it's really just 2 years' experience 18 times over. As the career of a certain owl-faced c*nt clearly shows.

There's a tipping point where experience is outweighed by what a player lacks in terms of overall contribution. Unlike Sami when he left, Carragher passed that threshold long ago.

Agree. It's a learning curve, once you reach the plateau...

[shelovesyou]

I understand what you are saying. We may be split in this thread on who is better suited to start, but we all know that Carra will start.

The issue I have with that is how that affects the balance of the entire team ahead of Carra - the deep back line, the gap in the middle when we don't have anyone capable of filling one of Lucas' shoes, the 'wide' players that will drift in to cover, which will result in the isolation of the forward(s). In some sense the game resembles chaotic motion of particles in a rectangular field. (Don't confuse chaos with disorder, chaos fills all the space between order and disorder. Chaos has repeating patterns although not exactly repeating motives as in order.) When you think of it like that, something has to fill a gap if a gap exists. I think that we were spoiled with our Agger-Skrtel partnership because they minimized that gap. I'm amazed how often we see them both in the opposition half and I don't mean for corners!

Ha Whoosh!!!!
I think I get what you mean, in the sense that he plays so deep he leaves holes between the midfield and the defence that the opposition can get into easily ?
Yes, there is that argument but again I go back to experience, boring yes, but this is a very important game.
Perhaps he'll go with something similar to what he went with against Utd with Coates at CB and Carra just in front ?
I dont know, but Id bet good money Carra will start never the less.

[Camarero25]

But but he's not ready, it's too big a test, he's far too inexperienced, blah blah blah....Carragher, vast experience, club legend....blah blah blah

You forgot to mention organisation, leadership or "running through a brick wall".

[rocco]

Kenny will start Cara for Agger and I've not got 1% of doubht about it.

Is it the right decision for now I'm not sure ?

[shelovesyou]

Sad to see some people views on Carra lately, he has served the club superbly well and the lack of repsect he gets for it is something youd' expect from Chelsea fans.
I appreciate he's past his best days but give the man a break eh!

[rocco]

Cara has great pace over 50 yards first of the block and first there to the keeper

2005
2012

[Hazell]

Sad to see some people views on Carra lately, he has served the club superbly well and the lack of repsect he gets for it is something youd' expect from Chelsea fans.
I appreciate he's past his best days but give the man a break eh!

I can't see anyone giving Carragher a lack of respect in this thread.

[Camarero25]

Cara has great pace over 50 yards first of the block and first there to the keeper

2005
2012

If we can somehow simultaneously win penalty shootouts and play the match, we might have a solution.

[rossipersempre]

I can't see anyone giving Carragher a lack of respect in this thread.

Indeed, if anything it's people giving him too much.

[rocco]

If we can somehow simultaneously win penalty shootouts and play the match, we might have a solution.

just shout cup

[Hazell]

Indeed, if anything it's people giving him too much.

Sheep.