Author Topic: The Results Comparison 2008/09  (Read 95143 times)

Offline Red_Rich

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #680 on: April 6, 2009, 02:01:50 am »
A stat I heard today ...

The last time United didn't win the league after being top at the beginning of April was 1998, when Arsenal pipped them.
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Offline LFCfan4Life

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #681 on: April 6, 2009, 11:30:28 am »
A stat I heard today ...

The last time United didn't win the league after being top at the beginning of April was 1998, when Arsenal pipped them.

to me it sounds more like an observation than a statistic

to me if it was the number of teams top at april who didn't go on to win it then it would be a stat

but lets make it the second time ;)
Two bulls, one old and one young, standing at the top of a field watching a herd of cows. The young one says, "hey let's run down and fuck one of them", and the older one says, "patience, let's walk down and fuck them all".

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #682 on: April 11, 2009, 03:03:44 pm »
5 year summaries

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #683 on: April 11, 2009, 06:25:21 pm »
It's interesting that, other than our perfect finish in 05/06, no one has got more than 14 points for the remaining 6/7 matches.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #684 on: April 11, 2009, 06:33:43 pm »
The time comps, still very close for the top spot ;D

Offline Shanks1965

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #685 on: April 11, 2009, 11:18:23 pm »
Liverpool v Man United
Comparison from 29 'common' fixtures so far including both the 'head to head's'.
Liverpool     66pts (next game Arsenal at home, United haven't played Arsenal at home yet)
United  64pts (next game Pompey at home - we beat Pompey at Anfield)
Liverpool have 1 win and 1 draw and 1 defeat in hand over United (4pts)
United have 2 wins, 1 draw in hand over Liverpool (7pts)
It's now that the defeat at Boro really starts to hurt us. With United still to go there it ought to have been 3pts in the bag for us.

Liverpool v Chelsea
Comparison from 26 'common' fixtures so far including the two head to heads.
Liverpool     61pts (next game Arsenal at home, Chelsea lost at home to Arsenal)
Chelsea       59pts (next game Everton at home, we drew at home tyo Everton)
Liverpool have 2 wins, 3 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Chelsea (9 pts)
Chelsea have 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats in hand over Liverpool (8 pts)

Liverpool v Arsenal
Comparison from 25 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Arsenal
Liverpool     56pts (next game the head to head at Anfield)
Arsenal        49pts (next game the head to head at Anfield)
Liverpool have 4 wins, 2 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Arsenal (14 pts)
Arsenal have 3 wins, 3 draws & 1 defeats in hand over Liverpool (12 pts)   

Liverpool v Villa
Comparison from 26 'common' fixtures so far including both head to heads)
Liverpool     61pts (next game Arsenal at home, Villa drew at home to Arsenal)
Villa           42pts (next game Everton at home, we drew at home to Everton)
Liverpool have 1 wins, 4 draws and 1 defeat in hand over Villa (7 pts)
Villa have 3 wins, 1 draw and 1 defeat in hand over Liverpool (10pts)   
Seen more titles than he can remember...

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #686 on: April 12, 2009, 11:00:44 am »
The equivalent match comps

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #687 on: April 13, 2009, 10:21:49 am »


Our best totals for the first 32 games:

1.  1987/88  -  76 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  71 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2008/09  -  70 points
4.  1989/90  -  65 points  [finished 1st:  79 points from 38 games]
4.  2001/02  -  65 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
6.  1986/87  -  64 points  [finished 2nd:  77 points from 42 games]
6.  1990/91  -  64 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
6.  2005/06  -  64 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]


Not only our best total since we last won the title, but 5 points better than the last time we actually did win it.


For the first 33:

1.  1987/88  -  77 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  74 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2001/02  -  68 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
4.  1986/87  -  67 points  [finished 2nd:  77 points from 42 games]
4.  1990/91  -  67 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
4.  2005/06  -  67 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]



Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #688 on: April 22, 2009, 12:26:40 am »

We were top after our 31st game, and on 4 April.

Since we last won the title, that is the second latest in the season for us to be top.



Previous Latest in Season for Liverpool Top of the Table


1.  2001/02  -    After 35 games on 20 April 
(Arsenal were 2 points behind, with 2 games in hand after we played on the Saturday.  They played and won on the Sunday, and stayed top for rest of season.  We lost our 36th game.)


2.  1990/91  -    After 29 games on 29 March
(After 29 games, we had one of our highest totals, but still only had a 1 point lead over Arsenal.  Even that was thanks to the 2 point deduction for their flare up with MU.  Moran & Souness couldnt compensate for Kenny's departure, and we faded to finish 7 points behind Arsenal)


3.  1996/97  -    After 24 games on 28 January
(MU were 2 points behind with 1 game in hand.  They played and won their next 2 games before we played again, and stayed top for rest of season.  We won our 25th and 26th games.)


4.  2002/03  -    After 13 games on 15 November
(After everyone had played 12 games, we were 4 points clear of Arsenal, and 8 points ahead of eventual champions, MU.  We then got 1 point from our next 6 games, and 13 points from our next 16 games.)


5.  2007/08  -    After 4 games on 14 September
(We were top entirely on merit at this early stage, havng played a game less than MU & Chelsea, and having easily the best GD in the league.  We drew our next 2 games, and that was that.)


6.  1998/99  -    After 4 games on 11 September
(We lost our 5th game, and eventually had one of our worst seasons since Shanks brought us back up, finishing 7th with 14 defeats and just 54 points.)


7.  1993/94  -    After 3 games on 22 August
(Everything looked bright after winning our first 3 games of the season.  Souness didnt see out the season as we finished 8th with 16 defeats and 60 points.)


8.  1994/95  -    After 1 game on 21 August
(We were one of seven teams to win their first match.  Our 6-1 win over Palace was enough to put us top.  We did win our next 2 games as well, but by then other teams had played more games, and we were never top again.)


In the other 10 seasons, we werent top at any stage.





This season we were top after 33 games and on 21 April.

In terms of the date, this is the latest in the season that we have been top since we last won the league.

In terms of games played, still second best after 2002.


Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #689 on: April 22, 2009, 12:42:45 am »

Our best for the first 33:

1.  1987/88  -  77 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  74 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2008/09  -  71 points
4.  2001/02  -  68 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
5.  1986/87  -  67 points  [finished 2nd:  77 points from 42 games]
5.  1990/91  -  67 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
5.  2005/06  -  67 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]


For the first 34:

1.  1987/88  -  80 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  77 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2001/02  -  71 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
4.  1990/91  -  70 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
4.  2005/06  -  70 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]



Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #690 on: April 22, 2009, 07:19:43 am »
My guesstimate is that 88 points is the minimum that a club needs to get to be sure of winning the title this year.  What I mean is that two teams will not get 88 points, so any team which does, can be sure of being champions.  EG if the runners up get 87 points, then it doesnt matter if the champions get 90, 91 or 95 points - they only needed 88.

I also think the champion will probably get at least 27 wins.

So here's how the top 5 measure up so far.


Initially Required

Team  /  Games  /   Points    /   Wins       /   Max Games  /  Max Points  /  Points (Wins) Per
Name  /  Left      /  Needed   /   Needed     /  Not Won      /  Dropped     /   Game Needed

ALL    /   38       /     88      /      27         /       11           /      26        /       2.31  (0.71)




So Far

Team  /  Games  /   Points    /   Wins       /   Games           /  Points       /   Points (Wins) 
Name  /  Played   /  Won    /    Achieved   /   Not Won      /  Dropped     /    Per  Game

LIV    /    17       /     38      /      11         /       06           /      13        /      2.24  (0.65)

CHE    /   16       /     36      /      11         /       05           /      12        /      2.25  (0.69)

MUN    /   16       /     32      /      09         /       07           /      16        /      2.00  (0.56)

ARS    /    17       /     30      /      09         /       08           /      21        /     1.76  (0.53)

AVL    /    17       /     31      /      09         /       08           /      20        /      1.82  (0.53)



Remaining

Team  /  Games  /   Points    /   Wins       /   Max Games  /  Max Points  /  Points (Wins) Per
Name  /  Left      /  Needed   /   Needed     /  Not Won      /  Dropped     /   Game Needed

LIV    /    21       /     50      /      16         /       05           /      13        /      2.38  (0.76)

CHE    /    22       /     52      /      16         /       06           /      14        /     2.36  (0.73)

MUN    /    22       /     56      /      18         /       04           /      10        /     2.55  (0.82)

ARS    /    21       /      58      /      18         /       03           /      05        /     2.76  (0.86)

AVL    /     21       /     57      /      18         /       03           /      06        /     2.71  (0.86)




UPDATE FOR CHELSEA  :D

Team  /  Games  /   Points    /   Wins       /   Max Games  /  Max Points  /  Points (Wins) Per
Name  /  Left      /  Needed   /   Needed     /  Not Won      /  Dropped     /   Game Needed

CHE    /    21       /     51      /      16         /       05           /      12        /     2.43  (0.76)





Liverpool can't get 88 now, of course.

I just have a nasty feeling that MU will lose one and draw one to end up on 87.  Just out of reach!





Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #691 on: April 26, 2009, 09:21:24 am »

Our best for the first 34:

1.  1987/88  -  80 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  77 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2008/09  -  74 points
4.  2001/02  -  71 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
5.  1990/91  -  70 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
5.  2005/06  -  70 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]



For the first 35:

1.  1987/88  -  81 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  80 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2001/02  -  74 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
4.  1990/91  -  73 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
4.  2005/06  -  73 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]


We have 4 games left, of course.  But our current total of 74 points is one we have only beaten (*) 4 times since the last time we won the league.

In 1991, after Kenny oversaw two thirds of the season, we ended up with 76 points.

In 2002, Thommo/Houllier's team finished with 80 points.

In 2006, Rafa got 82.

In 2008, Rafa got 76.

In other words, Rafa has 3 of the 4 highest post-Kenny totals. 


(*) We also reached 74 points in 1995; that was off 42 games


Offline -HH-

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #692 on: April 26, 2009, 10:42:01 am »
An interesting one to look at IF we manage to win all our remaining games (which is still a big if) we'll have improved by 10 points on last season when we finished 11 points off top. No being out of the title race at the new year this time round, and I think we've played the best football this season. Many positives to look back on if we can do that, and you still never know, maybe the title - though it looks harder and harder with each week.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #693 on: April 26, 2009, 11:22:30 am »
The 5 season comps

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #694 on: April 26, 2009, 11:25:02 am »
Looking tougher all the time :(

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #695 on: May 3, 2009, 06:13:03 pm »

Our best points totals after 35 games.

1.  1987/88  -  81 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  80 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2008/09  -  77 points
4.  2001/02  -  74 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
5.  1990/91  -  73 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
5.  2005/06  -  73 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]


This is already our 3rd highest total for the season since we last won the league. 

2002 and 2006 are the only seasons that we've finished with more than 77 points.



For the first 36, our previous best are:

1.  1987/88  -  84 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  81 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2005/06  -  76 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]
4.  1981/82  -  75 points  [finished 1st:  87 points from 42 games]
5.  2001/02  -  74 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]



Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #696 on: May 3, 2009, 07:57:32 pm »

'Goals Scored' Since We Last Won The League

77  -  1990/91

71  -  2000/01

70  -  1995/96

69  -  2008/09  (35 games so far)

68  -  1997/98
68  -  1998/99

67  -  2001/02
67  -  2007/08

65  -  1994/95  (42 games)

62  -  1992/93  (42 games)
62  -  1996/97

61  -  2002/03

59  -  1993/94  (42 games)

57  -  2005/06
57  -  2006/07

55  -  2003/04

52  -  2004/05

51  -  1999/00

47  -  1991/92  (42 games)


Frightening that our worst season came straight after our best.  Souness's team got 30 goals less than the Dalglish/Moran/Souness effort of the previous year.

To be fair, we probably wont equal that 90/91 team even now.  But 3 more goals from our next 3 games, and we'll have our best total since then.


Offline The_Cutter

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #697 on: May 3, 2009, 07:59:57 pm »
We've been very very good this year for the most part, it's such a shame that Premier League is right now very hardcore. Well, will make it tham much sweeter to win it. (:
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Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #698 on: May 3, 2009, 08:13:05 pm »
Here is how Liverpool's title winning campaigns have started, with totals from before 81/82 converted to the 3 point system.

It's fair to assume that our teams before 81/82 would have won more games if there had been 3 points on offer - but even so, IMHO, the numbers show that the current squad has done pretty well in comparison. 


Total after 35 games

81  -  1978/79  (were in 1st place)
81  -  1987/88  (1st)

80  -  1982/83  (1st)

78  -  1922/23  (1st)

75  -  1965/66  (1st)

74  -  1972/73  (1st)
74  -  1979/80  (1st)

72  -  1981/82  (1st)

70  -  1963/64  (2nd)
70  -  1989/90  (1st)

69  -  1921/22  (1st)
69  -  1983/84  (1st)

68  -  1905/06  (1st)
68  -  1976/77  (2nd)

67  -  1985/86  (2nd)

64  -  1975/76  (3rd)

63  -  1946/47  (5th)


In 1900/01, there were only 34 games.  We finished with the equivalent of 64 points converted to the 3 point system.



Offline -HH-

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #699 on: May 9, 2009, 07:51:34 pm »
We've deffo improved on last season by at least 4 points. Happy days, and something positive to take from the season even if we miss out on the title.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Ben_

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #700 on: May 9, 2009, 08:10:48 pm »
Brilliant progression.
The match kicks off in 30 minutes ya silly twat


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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #701 on: May 9, 2009, 11:27:42 pm »
Mark mate, you haven't updated the Arsenal improvement part.

Lazy slacker :wave

We've deffo improved on last season by at least 4 points. Happy days, and something positive to take from the season even if we miss out on the title.

The manner in which we have done it is really good too :)
« Last Edit: May 9, 2009, 11:29:28 pm by Gareth »

Offline LFCfan4Life

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #702 on: May 9, 2009, 11:32:30 pm »
To be fair, we probably wont equal that 90/91 team even now.  But 3 more goals from our next 3 games, and we'll have our best total since then.

were on 72 scored atm which is now our second best season so only 5 more to equal it and 6 to surpass it
Two bulls, one old and one young, standing at the top of a field watching a herd of cows. The young one says, "hey let's run down and fuck one of them", and the older one says, "patience, let's walk down and fuck them all".

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Offline -HH-

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #703 on: May 9, 2009, 11:35:19 pm »
Mark mate, you haven't updated the Arsenal improvement part.

Lazy slacker :wave

Yer wha?
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #704 on: May 11, 2009, 06:51:48 am »

For the first 36, our best points totals are:

1.  1987/88  -  84 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  81 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2008/09  -  80 points
4.  2005/06  -  76 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]
5.  1981/82  -  75 points  [finished 1st:  87 points from 42 games]
6.  2001/02  -  74 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]


For the first 37, our previous best are:

1.  1987/88  -  85 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1982/83  -  81 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2005/06  -  79 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]
4.  1981/82  -  78 points  [finished 1st:  87 points from 42 games]
5.  2001/02  -  77 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]



For the first 38 games, our previous best 10 points totals are:

1.  1987/88  -  86 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  2005/06  -  82 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]
3.  1982/83  -  81 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
4.  2001/02  -  80 points  [finished 2nd:  80 points from 38 games]
5.  1981/82  -  79 points  [finished 1st:  87 points from 42 games]
5.  1989/90  -  79 points  [finished 1st:  79 points from 38 games]
7.  1985/86  -  76 points  [finished 1st:  88 points from 42 games]
7.  1988/89  -  76 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
7.  1990/91  -  76 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
7.  2007/08  -  76 points  [finished 4th:  76 points from 38 games]


So this season is the 5th time that we have ever reached the 80 point mark in 38 games or less.  Rafa is the only manager to have achieved it twice  (one each for Paisley, Dalglish, Houllier/Thompson).

If we win one of our last two games, we'll have our best 38-game points total since we last won the league.  It would also be the outright highest total that we have ever had for a 38 game season.  Indeed it would be our best season total for 21 years.

If we win both of our last 2 games, then we will equal the highest points total that we have ever had after 38 games. 


Let me repeat that.  We could equal the highest points total that we have EVER had for 38 games.  This is why I get really frustrated with people who complain that "Raf threw it away" or  "if Rafa changed his tactics, then we would have turned those draws into wins".  Fine.  We havent been good enough to win the league.  But Rafa's obviously been doing something right to get us into this position.





Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #705 on: May 11, 2009, 06:58:24 am »

Latest in Season for Liverpool Top of the Table


1.  2008/09  -    After 36 games on 9 May
Top in May for the first time since 1990.


2.  2001/02  -    After 35 games on 20 April 
(Arsenal were 2 points behind, with 2 games in hand after we played on the Saturday.  They played and won on the Sunday, and stayed top for rest of season.  We lost our 36th game.)


3.  1990/91  -    After 29 games on 29 March
(After 29 games, we had one of our highest totals, but still only had a 1 point lead over Arsenal.  Even that was thanks to the 2 point deduction for their flare up with MU.  Moran & Souness couldnt compensate for Kenny's departure, and we faded to finish 7 points behind Arsenal)


4.  1996/97  -    After 24 games on 28 January
(MU were 2 points behind with 1 game in hand.  They played and won their next 2 games before we played again, and stayed top for rest of season.  We won our 25th and 26th games.)


5.  2002/03  -    After 13 games on 15 November
(After everyone had played 12 games, we were 4 points clear of Arsenal, and 8 points ahead of eventual champions, MU.  We then got 1 point from our next 6 games, and 13 points from our next 16 games.)


6.  2007/08  -    After 4 games on 14 September
(We were top entirely on merit at this early stage, havng played a game less than MU & Chelsea, and having easily the best GD in the league.  We drew our next 2 games, and that was that.)


7.  1998/99  -    After 4 games on 11 September
(We lost our 5th game, and eventually had one of our worst seasons since Shanks brought us back up, finishing 7th with 14 defeats and just 54 points.)


8.  1993/94  -    After 3 games on 22 August
(Everything looked bright after winning our first 3 games of the season.  Souness didnt see out the season as we finished 8th with 16 defeats and 60 points.)


9.  1994/95  -    After 1 game on 21 August
(We were one of seven teams to win their first match.  Our 6-1 win over Palace was enough to put us top.  We did win our next 2 games as well, but by then other teams had played more games, and we were never top again.)


In the other 10 seasons, we werent top at any stage.




Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #706 on: May 11, 2009, 07:01:31 am »


'Goals Scored' Since We Last Won The League

77  -  1990/91

72  -  2008/09  (36 games so far)

71  -  2000/01

70  -  1995/96

68  -  1997/98
68  -  1998/99

67  -  2001/02
67  -  2007/08

65  -  1994/95  (42 games)

62  -  1992/93  (42 games)
62  -  1996/97

61  -  2002/03

59  -  1993/94  (42 games)

57  -  2005/06
57  -  2006/07

55  -  2003/04

52  -  2004/05

51  -  1999/00

47  -  1991/92  (42 games)



Offline 7777

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #707 on: May 11, 2009, 07:11:36 am »
If we get maximum points from our last two games, I heard it mentioned that 86 points would have been enough to win the league 7 times since the inception of the Premier League (when football began)

Offline RayO'Biscan

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #708 on: May 11, 2009, 10:56:03 am »
If we get maximum points from our last two games, I heard it mentioned that 86 points would have been enough to win the league 7 times since the inception of the Premier League (when football began)

It's 9 times, actually.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #709 on: May 11, 2009, 06:02:36 pm »

If we get maximum points from our last two games, I heard it mentioned that 86 points would have been enough to win the league 7 times since the inception of the Premier League (when football began)

The last time that 86 points would have been enough was 2003.  But before that, it was usually more than the winners got, eg:  2001, 1999, 1998, 1997, 1996.

So, in the first 8 seasons that the PL was fought over 38 games, 86 points would have taken the title 6 times.  (And in the next 6 seasons, zero times.)

86 points would have also been enough to win in each of the 3 years (1989 to 1991 that the top flight was first reduced from 42 games to 38).

So in other words, 9 of the first 11 occasions (in modern times) that there was a 38 game season, 86 would have won.


Also, 86 points from 38 is a better PPG than 95 points from 42 games.  That was never achieved (*).  In fact, even in the 42 game era 86 points would have taken the title in: 1993, 1992, 1984, 1983.  [1981 and earlier were 2 points for a win].

86 from 38 is also a slightly higher PPG than the 90 points from 40 games that Liverpool got when they won the 1988 title.

Bottom line is that these days, the teams at the top get more points than they did up to 5 or 6 years ago.



(*) Liverpool's 1979 season (30 wins, 8 draws) would convert to 98 points under 3 points for a win. 



Offline RedRush

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #710 on: May 11, 2009, 06:14:47 pm »
Let me repeat that.  We could equal the highest points total that we have EVER had for 38 games.  This is why I get really frustrated with people who complain that "Raf threw it away" or  "if Rafa changed his tactics, then we would have turned those draws into wins".  Fine.  We havent been good enough to win the league.  But Rafa's obviously been doing something right to get us into this position.

I get really frustrated too. While I do nothing because I think those who say that will never ever change their views, all kudos to you for your fine effort to educate. Cheers.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #711 on: May 11, 2009, 06:45:58 pm »
Goals scored

77  -  1990/91

47  -  1991/92


Makes me sick.
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Offline farawayred

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #712 on: May 11, 2009, 07:01:30 pm »
Latest in Season for Liverpool Top of the Table


1.  2008/09  -    After 36 games on 9 May
Top in May for the first time since 1990.

That's beautiful, but a bit misleading. The Mancs have a game off. Without it, we probably would have been top of the table for the last time sometimes in late January, early February.

You've done some very interesting work; thanks for that! I don't know if it's possible, but is there a way to estimate an end date of our title aspirations from previous seasons. I know it's going to be subjective, and I know we all say that the title run was over in December in past seasons, but if you could use your judgment...
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Offline LFCfan4Life

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #713 on: May 11, 2009, 07:09:57 pm »
That's beautiful, but a bit misleading. The Mancs have a game off. Without it, we probably would have been top of the table for the last time sometimes in late January, early February.

which why if we don't go top again it will say mancs had a game in hand and won the title etc just like all the other dates in that list
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Offline farawayred

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #714 on: May 11, 2009, 07:28:28 pm »
which why if we don't go top again it will say mancs had a game in hand and won the title etc just like all the other dates in that list
Not really, because it's likely (though I hope not!) that we'd be trailing by 6 pts, and even if we play before them, we can't go to the top. Of course, Wigan may have other ideas... ;)
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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #715 on: May 11, 2009, 07:34:46 pm »
Anyone else think we may match the 77 goals scored in 1990/91? ;)
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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #716 on: May 11, 2009, 07:37:02 pm »
Anyone else think we may match the 77 goals scored in 1990/91? ;)
Why not? We can beat that with ease.
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Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #717 on: May 11, 2009, 09:05:51 pm »

I don't know if it's possible, but is there a way to estimate an end date of our title aspirations from previous seasons. I know it's going to be subjective, and I know we all say that the title run was over in December in past seasons, but if you could use your judgment...

I dont think it's really possible, because no two people will ever agree on when it's over. 

Also, are we using hindsight or not.

Eg, with the benefit of hindsight, the title was (theoretically) lost last season in Game 25 when we drew with Chelsea.  If we'd won that day, and won all our remaining games, and if all other results had stayed the same, then we'd have been champions (on GD from Chelsea, with MU one point behind). 

But that's far too artificial, no? 



A bit more background on the seasons that we've been top after Christmas:

In 2002, we finished 7 points behind Arsenal. 

Since we only dropped 5 points in our final 15 games, then - with the benefit of hindsight - we lost the title before that run-in.  And it's certainly true that immediately before that fine finish, we'd had 1 win from 9 games.

However, at the start of the run-in, no-one would have ruled us out.  After our Game 24, a 1-0 win at OT, we were 2 points behind MU, and level on games.  We were behind Newcastle on GD only, though they had a game in hand.  Crucially, though we didnt know it at the time, we were only 2 points ahead of Arsenal, who had 2 games in hand.  Arsenal's relentless finish (15 wins and 1 draw from their remaining 16 games) meant that we were done for, and didnt know it.

So that year, not using hindsight, I'd say we were in contention all the way until we lost Game 36.  We needed Arsenal to slip up a couple of times.  We werent to know that they wouldnt.



In 1997, we kept in close touch with MU up to games 26 and 27.  After 26 games, they were 1 point ahead.  Since they drew their 27th game, we'd have been top if we'd won ours, but we drew too, and then lost the one after that.  Our 4-3 with Newcastle threatened to put us back in contention. MU had lost their game that weekend, so we were back to 1 point behind.  But instead of challenging, we just fell away.  Only 3 more wins from the last 9 games.



And then there was 1991
.  Fergie might claim to have knocked us off our perch, but (in terms of rival managers), George Graham has a much better claim.  1989 was the dramatic one.  But 1991 was the almost incredible one. 

Liverpool had, arguably, their best ever start.  12 wins and 1 draw from the first 13 games, before drawing with Man City.  Then, we lost to Arsenal.  Was that 15th game the tipping point?  Even after our great start, we were only 3 points ahead of Arsenal.  Arsenal were unbeaten, with 11 wins and 4 draws, but had had a 2 point deduction.  Arsenal then kept up the pressure; they lost only one league game all season.  (Although they did draw 13.  "Too many" to win the league we are often told).

But, it seemed, we were good enough to withstand the pressure.  Kenny's last league game (a win over Everton) saw us regaining top spot.  We had 3 points more than Arsenal, and were level on games.  After he resigned, we lost our next 2 league games, one of which to Arsenal, and were done for.  Like this season, we topped the table a few more times, but only when Arsenal had 2 games in hand.


So, IMHO, both 2002 and this year, are very credible challenges.  By accident, we played first, and our opponents always had enough games in hand to overtake us.  But we werent (without the benefit of hindsight) being unduly optimistic when we hoped that, at some stage, they'd drop points.



Offline farawayred

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #718 on: May 11, 2009, 09:23:51 pm »
^^^ Thanks! ;)
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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #719 on: May 12, 2009, 12:16:19 am »
Cheers for that post Jack.
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