Topic: China proposes 50 trillion global power grid

[Flinstone]

Talk about ambition on cocaine

     

China is proposing a $50+ trillion global energy grid. Global Energy Interconnection (GEI), a vision of a world power grid, was outlined by the State Grid Corporation of China ("State Grid")

It would be based upon a global network of Ultra High Voltage power lines connecting global power generation including massive wind farm at the North Pole and solar power from equatorial areas to energy users around the world.

If renewable generation grows at an annual growth rate of 12.4 percent over the world, then by 2050 renewable energy shall increase to 80 percent of total consumption, realizing clean energy supplement forever and completely solving the dilemmas caused by fossil fuels.

By 2050, the total CO2 emission will be controlled at about 11.5 billion tons, half of emissions in 1990, holding the temperature rise to within 2 degrees.

The accumulated investment on the global grid will exceed $50 trillion, tremendously boosting the development of new-emerging strategic industries, renewable energy, new materials and electric vehicle.

From now on to 2020, we need to promote clean energy development, domestic grid interconnection and smart grid construction in various countries. By 2030, large energy bases shall be established and grids shall be interconnected among countries within the continent.

China a leader in UHV grids

At higher voltages, eg 500kV and above, transmission losses over hundreds of kilometres are much reduced. At ultra-high voltages (UHV) eg 1000 kV AC or 800 kV DC, losses are further reduced (eg to 5% over 1000 km) but capital requirements are greater. In Germany consideration is being given to converting some existing AC lines to DC to increase their capacity. In the USA it is estimated that transmission losses amount to about 6%, or 250 TWh per year, worth some $20 billion. In India transmission losses in 2011 were 222 TWh (21%).

China is developing a very sophisticated grid system, since its main coal deposits are in the north, its main wind potential in the far west and its nuclear plants are on the coast – close to load centres. The grid system run by the State Grid Corporation of China (SGCC) and China Southern Power Grid Co (CSG) is growing rapidly, utilising ultra high voltage (1000 kV AC from 2009, and 800 kV DC from 2010) transmission. By 2015 SGCC invested CNY 500 billion ($75.5 billion) to extend the UHV grid to 40,000 km. By 2020, the capacity of the UHV network is expected to be some 300-400 GW, which will function as the backbone of the whole system, connecting six regional clusters. By 2020 there will be 400 GWe of clean energy sources connected, of which hydropower will account for 78 GWe, and wind power from the north a further significant portion. Wind capacity by 2020 is planned to be over 100 GWe. At the end of 2009, China had budgeted to spend $600 billion upgrading its grid. Over 2014 to 2020 high-voltage transmission lines are expected to increase from 1.15 million circuit km to 1.6 million circuit km, in line with a substantial increase in generation capacity, and operational transmission losses are expected to be 5.7%, down from 6.6% in 2010.

The USA has a patchwork of grids which are often barely interconnected. In 2012 a report from the American Society of Civil Engineers said that ageing equipment and lack of capacity was leading to intermittent failures, and said that an extra $107 billion investment was needed by 2020.




By 2050, we need to accelerate the development of energy bases at the North Pole (wind power) and the Equatorial Regions (solar power), realizing intercontinental interconnections. By then the global energy interconnection will basically come into being.

The GEI initiative will require an unprecedented technology overhaul, including innovations in power, grid, and storage technologies.

State Grid has developed the necessary ultra-high voltage (UHV) grid technology to serve as a platform for extensive development, deployment and utilization of clean energy worldwide. State Grid has already built seven of its advanced power lines in China and has ten more under construction. Last year the company announced it was building an almost 1,300 mile long line in Brazil, connecting a hydroelectric dam on the Amazon River to cities in the southeastern part of the country.

According to estimates from State Grid's research institute, it costs USD$0.08 per kilowatt-hour to generate and send wind power to China's Xinjiang gird, and USD$0.04 to send it to Germany via UHV lines. The total cost of USD$0.12 is half that of clean power's generation cost in Germany.

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/03/china-proposes-50-trillion-global-uhv.html

[Redman0151]

I really can't see American signing up to this under Trump and republican rule

[BarryCrocker]

Cue Trump to come out saying they're going to build an even bigger grid and he'll do it for half the price.

[DJBrenton]

Cue Trump to come out saying they're going to build an even bigger grid and he'll do it for half the price.

He'll get Mexicans to build it.

[Party Phil]

He'll get Mexicans to build it.

And it'll be coal powered

[SP]

So that for the US that would be a huge investment to reduce transmission losses from the current 6% to a projected 5% saving about $3.7bn a year. The figures given there do not give any sensible return on investment.

The North Pole should also be off limits to this kind of development.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

This is exactly what is required if we're going to have a chance of powering the world with renewable energy. There are plenty of regions of the planet with huge renewable resources but low populations, we need to use these resources and get the power to areas of high populations. At last someone has the visions and ambition to do so.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

The figures given there do not give any sensible return on investment.

The North Pole should also be off limits to this kind of development.

Bollocks to "return on investment", this attitude is what has got the planet in the mess it's in.

Although you may be right about the North Pole.

[Red Beret]

How could you even run a wind farm at or near the north pole?  It might be warmer than it should be up there, but it can still go as low as -50 C.  Can windmills run in that kind of environment?  Surely it would need a shed load of maintenance to keep it running in those temperatures?

[81a]

How could you even run a wind farm at or near the north pole?  It might be warmer than it should be up there, but it can still go as low as -50 C.  Can windmills run in that kind of environment?  Surely it would need a shed load of maintenance to keep it running in those temperatures?

They would work, but far below optimal performance.

http://www.saskpower.com/power_your_future/wind/turbine_dashboard/

[richiedouglas]

Sounds great to me. Would prefer it if our government were making a concerted effort to improve green energy at the same rate.

[Jake]

If it's as good as it sounds and saves the world then all for it.

Otherwise we and our future generations are all dead before we even get going.

[Sangria]

Probably a better place to ask would be the science forum, but something I've always wondered is, do wind power, tidal power, solar power and other renewables have side effects that are currently unnoticeable because they're currently used on such a small scale? Other than occupy vast amounts of land, that is.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Probably a better place to ask would be the science forum, but something I've always wondered is, do wind power, tidal power, solar power and other renewables have side effects that are currently unnoticeable because they're currently used on such a small scale? Other than occupy vast amounts of land, that is.

Depends what you mean. Tidal power may cause some silting of estuaries, but they probably have that sorted as it's been used in France for decades. Large scale hydro projects, i.e. big dams used to produce electricity can also have silting issues and usually involve flooding of large areas, leading to destruction of ecosystems, habitat and displacement of people, often on a large scale. Large dams can also have an effect on water supply and interfere with agriculture on the river banks.

Wind power worldwide is used on a large scale, particularly in China and the USA. Aside from land use, even then the actual footprint is relatively small and agriculture/livestock farming can still take place, there are no side effects. Solar power requires huge amounts of space, however very large solar arrays are usually sited on land with little or no other use, or on the roofs of buildings, although it could be argued that that's not the case in the UK regarding land. Use of solar has no side effects.

All forms of renewable energy obviously require materials, those used in solar photovoltaic cells (producing electricity as opposed to hot water) probably being the most environmentally damaging. The mining of materials and manufacture of the technologies will have environmental consequences, require energy which has to be generated and release CO₂ , however the payback times for energy and carbon are well within the lifetime of the technology, this is especially true for wind power, the larger the turbine the quicker the payback time.

Interestingly the concrete in the centre of the Hover Dam (completed 1936) is still setting and still releasing CO₂ .

[Jake]

Still better than burning fossil fuels.

I recently signed up to a 100% renewable energy supplier, think they plant a tree to offset the omissions for gas too.

[Something Worse]

Depends what you mean. Tidal power may cause some silting of estuaries, but they probably have that sorted as it's been used in France for decades. Large scale hydro projects, i.e. big dams used to produce electricity can also have silting issues and usually involve flooding of large areas, leading to destruction of ecosystems, habitat and displacement of people, often on a large scale. Large dams can also have an effect on water supply and interfere with agriculture on the river banks.

Wind power worldwide is used on a large scale, particularly in China and the USA. Aside from land use, even then the actual footprint is relatively small and agriculture/livestock farming can still take place, there are no side effects. Solar power requires huge amounts of space, however very large solar arrays are usually sited on land with little or no other use, or on the roofs of buildings, although it could be argued that that's not the case in the UK regarding land. Use of solar has no side effects.

All forms of renewable energy obviously require materials, those used in solar photovoltaic cells (producing electricity as opposed to hot water) probably being the most environmentally damaging. The mining of materials and manufacture of the technologies will have environmental consequences, require energy which has to be generated and release CO₂ , however the payback times for energy and carbon are well within the lifetime of the technology, this is especially true for wind power, the larger the turbine the quicker the payback time.

Interestingly the concrete in the centre of the Hover Dam (completed 1936) is still setting and still releasing CO₂ .

Don't wind farms interfere with bird migration etc? Is that just an urban legend?

[thejbs]

Don't wind farms interfere with bird migration etc? Is that just an urban legend?

Urban legend, or rather bad reporting. I read up on this during the us presidential debates.  The RSPB maintain that properly sited wind farms do little to upset bird migrations and that that most species adapt to them. One study showed that fossil fuel stations cause 17 times more bird deaths per gigawatt than wind farms.

The cases where mass bird deaths have occurred have been down to poorly chosen sites and are very isolated occurrences.

[kcbworth]

How could you even run a wind farm at or near the north pole?  It might be warmer than it should be up there, but it can still go as low as -50 C.  Can windmills run in that kind of environment?  Surely it would need a shed load of maintenance to keep it running in those temperatures?

Rather than the North Pole, I wonder if this should be in Australia or Africa

[Something Worse]

Urban legend, or rather bad reporting. I read up on this during the us presidential debates.  The RSPB maintain that properly sited wind farms do little to upset bird migrations and that that most species adapt to them. One study showed that fossil fuel stations cause 17 times more bird deaths per gigawatt than wind farms.

The cases where mass bird deaths have occurred have been down to poorly chosen sites and are very isolated occurrences.

Thanks for answering!

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Don't wind farms interfere with bird migration etc? Is that just an urban legend?

Complete myth, birds ain't that stupid.

[GreatEx]

Rather than the North Pole, I wonder if this should be in Australia or Africa

Australia should be able to power whole bloody solar system by setting up solar farms in the vast, vast deserts in the centre of the country and most of Western Australia. But we are second only to the US in climate change denial and either the first or second highest emitters of CO2 per capita in the world, so good luck with us. There is no reason for Australians to use coal-generated electricity domestically since a few panels on the roof are easily enough to power a 5-bedroom house with a huge surplus that can be sold back to the grid for a tidy profit (admittedly about to be slashed by 90% because baby boomer nest-eggs >>> long-term future of the planet), and yet we burn the shit like there's no tomorrow (because there probably isn't).

[GreatEx]

Don't wind farms interfere with bird migration etc? Is that just an urban legend?

Isn't there also a myth that the whoosh-whoosh of windmill blades causes people to go insane? Probably making them team up with the lizard people and reverse vampires in a fiendish conspiracy to eliminate the meal of dinner...

[Dr. Beaker]

Don't wind farms interfere with bird migration etc? Is that just an urban legend?

No, in fact this is almost certainly the case. I have spent many hours of scientific endeavour studying the effects of turning the fan on and off, on my mum's budgie.

[Something Worse]

No, in fact this is almost certainly the case. I have spent many hours of scientific endeavour studying the effects of turning the fan on and off, on my mum's budget.

I doubt there's any birds within a one mile radius of your house though.

[Dr. Beaker]

I doubt there's any birds within a one mile radius of your house though.

Yeah, I've always had that effect on birds.

[Something Worse]

Yeah, I've always had that effect on birds.

Who among us...