Author Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)  (Read 372046 times)

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1880 on: January 5, 2017, 10:06:46 pm »


See Derek yet you get angry when people claim you attempt to misrepresent what is happening and twist the data to fit your agenda

18 months ago I got fed up with being accused of being a liar.So OK  lads and lasses. You've won.

I really do give up.



Answer me this Derek, even if you end up being right (which you aren't), what is so bad about society shifting to renewable and clean energy? Do you really think the vast, vast, vast majority of scientists are all wrong and part of a conspiracy?

I just don't understand the mindset of climate change deniers and what they hope to achieve, apart from those involved in the industries that would downsize if the world got it's act together, in which case they're just selfish pricks of the worst kind imaginable
« Last Edit: January 5, 2017, 10:09:20 pm by Crosby Wych »
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Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1881 on: January 5, 2017, 10:45:30 pm »
1800 is a good start
Anything beyond the start of the "pause" would be a pretty decent place to start.  1950.  1910...

All you have to do is search "climate change pause" and the links are there.  It's just scary that placing faith in your own interpretations from starting points that will only serve your own purpose can be so fulfilling.  I don't mean this as a complete character assassination on Derek but he says that he's from a physics-based background so he should know that what he's doing is bunkum science at best, and purposeful biasing of the data to put across a lie at worst.  It's barmy to see.  I've got to my third year in my physics degree and nothing besides building his own graphs seems to point in any direction that, scientifically, he knows what he's on about.

And if anyone's wondering as to why I'm so annoyed with Derek's constant misrepresentation, here's what I'm on about

What Derek is trying to do is average temperatures out from that massive bump around 1998 to the present day.  As you can see it is a complete anomaly of the general trends.
« Last Edit: January 5, 2017, 11:14:51 pm by CornerFlag »
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Offline theMilkman

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1882 on: January 6, 2017, 05:21:02 am »
Anything beyond the start of the "pause" would be a pretty decent place to start.  1950.  1910...

All you have to do is search "climate change pause" and the links are there.  It's just scary that placing faith in your own interpretations from starting points that will only serve your own purpose can be so fulfilling.  I don't mean this as a complete character assassination on Derek but he says that he's from a physics-based background so he should know that what he's doing is bunkum science at best, and purposeful biasing of the data to put across a lie at worst.  It's barmy to see.  I've got to my third year in my physics degree and nothing besides building his own graphs seems to point in any direction that, scientifically, he knows what he's on about.

And if anyone's wondering as to why I'm so annoyed with Derek's constant misrepresentation, here's what I'm on about

What Derek is trying to do is average temperatures out from that massive bump around 1998 to the present day.  As you can see it is a complete anomaly of the general trends.

he also claims that the long term trend of increases in global average temperatures is 0.6/0.7 degress celcius per century and that makes the current 0.82 number less bad. But 0.7 C/century is only true for the last century iirc and about 8 times faster than the rate at which we warmed out of the last ice age. in his defence he has at some point stated that he agrees that the earth is warming but his big sticking point seems to be that he disagrees with the rate of the warming- and the positive feedback loop. I've been going through his posts and what I don't get is why he's so obsessed with disproving a hypothesis about the doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial levels leading to an increase of 3C, as opposed to 1C. Especially since the whole notion of the expected positive feedback loop and why we should be concerned by climate change is steeped in the facts that CO2 levels are higher, far higher now than they've been at during any time in modern human history, we know co2 is a greenhouse gas and we know that greenhouse gasses are warming the planet. And as anyone who's done any proper forecasting course will tell you any model is most likely going to be terrible at forecasting situations when the underlying system is changed. and being at co2 levels not previously seen in the 800,000 year history we get from ice cores certainly count as an underlying change of the system.

« Last Edit: January 6, 2017, 06:09:14 am by theMilkman »
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1883 on: January 6, 2017, 09:43:30 am »


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Offline Crumble

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1884 on: January 6, 2017, 11:17:44 am »
What Derek is trying to do is average temperatures out from that massive bump around 1998 to the present day.  As you can see it is a complete anomaly of the general trends.

I'm new to this conversation, attracted to it because I like data and interpretation thereof. I've a question...

Kenneth, the trend line on the NASA/RSS graph from 1979 shows a temperature gradient of about 1.8 degrees per century (estimated by eye). Yet Derek's earlier chart shows that the current climate models are in the range 2.29 to 3.66 degrees per century. That's a significant difference. Please could one of you explain where the discrepancy comes from?

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1885 on: January 6, 2017, 12:15:57 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38513740

Climate change: Fresh doubt over global warming 'pause'

A controversial study that found there has been no slowdown in global warming has been supported by new research.

Many researchers had accepted that the rate of global warming had slowed in the first 15 years of this century.

But new analysis in the journal Science Advances replicates findings that scientists have underestimated ocean temperatures over the past two decades.

With the revised data the apparent pause in temperature rises between 1998 and 2014 disappears.

The idea of a pause had gained support in recent years with even the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reporting in 2013 that the global surface temperature "has shown a much smaller increasing linear trend over the past 15 years than over the past 30 to 60 years".

But that consensus was brought into question by a number of studies, of which a report by the the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) published in Science last year was the most significant.

Researchers from Noaa suggested that the temperatures of the oceans were being consistently underestimated by the main global climate models.

The authors showed that the ocean buoys used to measure sea temperatures tend to report slightly cooler temperatures than the older ship-based systems.

Back in the 1990s, ship measurements made up the vast majority of the data, whereas now the more accurate and consistent buoys account for 85% of measurements.



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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1886 on: January 6, 2017, 03:54:33 pm »
I'm new to this conversation, attracted to it because I like data and interpretation thereof. I've a question...

Kenneth, the trend line on the NASA/RSS graph from 1979 shows a temperature gradient of about 1.8 degrees per century (estimated by eye). Yet Derek's earlier chart shows that the current climate models are in the range 2.29 to 3.66 degrees per century. That's a significant difference. Please could one of you explain where the discrepancy comes from?

The y axis on the NASA chart appears to be plotting the rolling 12 month temp change, rather than an absolute temperature. If I have read that correctly. As the change is increasing year on year, that would mean a plot of actual temperature would show exponential growth, wouldn't it? Genuine question that, i'm not sure.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1887 on: January 6, 2017, 06:02:52 pm »
I'm new to this conversation, attracted to it because I like data and interpretation thereof. I've a question...

Kenneth, the trend line on the NASA/RSS graph from 1979 shows a temperature gradient of about 1.8 degrees per century (estimated by eye). Yet Derek's earlier chart shows that the current climate models are in the range 2.29 to 3.66 degrees per century. That's a significant difference. Please could one of you explain where the discrepancy comes from?
To add to the above, there is the problem of positive feedbacks...

As the earth warms, permafrost will melt in Siberia...

This contains large amounts of methane which will be vented into the atmosphere and will cause further warming.

Some in here don't believe positive feedbacks exist... but they do.
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Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1888 on: January 6, 2017, 06:28:33 pm »
The y axis on the NASA chart appears to be plotting the rolling 12 month temp change, rather than an absolute temperature. If I have read that correctly. As the change is increasing year on year, that would mean a plot of actual temperature would show exponential growth, wouldn't it? Genuine question that, i'm not sure.

The y-axis shows anomalies - the temperature difference between a value for a given year and a baseline temperature value. The baseline value is usually the average global temperature over 20 or 30 years. Each annual anomaly then reflects how much warmer or colder that particular year is compared to the baseline value. Hope I'm making sense. A plot of actual temperatures would have the same shape, simply with the anomaly added or subtracted from the baseline value.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2017, 06:31:54 pm by Bioluminescence »

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1889 on: January 6, 2017, 06:33:40 pm »
To add to the above, there is the problem of positive feedbacks...

As the earth warms, permafrost will melt in Siberia...

This contains large amounts of methane which will be vented into the atmosphere and will cause further warming.

Some in here don't believe positive feedbacks exist... but they do.

We are the main driver behind positive feedback loops, and these loops are causing so many environmental issues.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1890 on: January 6, 2017, 06:46:52 pm »
I'm new to this conversation, attracted to it because I like data and interpretation thereof. I've a question...

Kenneth, the trend line on the NASA/RSS graph from 1979 shows a temperature gradient of about 1.8 degrees per century (estimated by eye). Yet Derek's earlier chart shows that the current climate models are in the range 2.29 to 3.66 degrees per century. That's a significant difference. Please could one of you explain where the discrepancy comes from?

Crappie Kenneth points out feedbacks - I think the effect of melting ice is another good example. The melting of Arctic sea ice means that some of the solar energy that used to be reflected by ice is now being absorbed by the water replacing the ice. This explains why the Arctic is warming faster than lower latitudes. There's also the fact that we are increasing CO2 concentrations. In 1979, CO2 concentrations were about 337 ppm. Now they're above 400 ppm, and projected to be above 500 ppm by the end of the century. Higher CO2 concentrations of course translate into more warming.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1891 on: January 6, 2017, 07:18:37 pm »
Does the melting icecap increase cloud cover and thus the overall albedo of the atmosphere?

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1892 on: January 6, 2017, 07:28:36 pm »
Does the melting icecap increase cloud cover and thus the overall albedo of the atmosphere?
I don't think it's that simple (would that it were), and iirc, ice has much higher albedo than cloud per metre squared.
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Offline SP

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1893 on: January 6, 2017, 07:36:24 pm »
I don't think it's that simple (would that it were), and iirc, ice has much higher albedo than cloud per metre squared.

But an area of ice does not equate to the same area of cloud. I agree that it is fearsomely complex.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1894 on: January 6, 2017, 08:03:57 pm »
Does the melting icecap increase cloud cover and thus the overall albedo of the atmosphere?

There's a lot of uncertainty when it comes to clouds because they don't all act in the same way. High clouds only reflect a relatively small amount of sunlight while they retain some of the outgoing heat. On the other hand low clouds reflect a relatively large amount of sunlight and let most of the outgoing heat through. I'm not sure about the specific situation in the Arctic but I know that overall the evidence suggests that cloud feedback is unlikely to be strong (and there's some evidence it amplifies warming, if only weakly) and cancel out warming from human activities. If you look at Earth's history you see that global temperatures fluctuate quite a lot, which suggests that strong negative feedbacks that limit warming (or cooling) aren't there.

Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1895 on: January 6, 2017, 08:09:24 pm »


"Don't let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right."
"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing."
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1896 on: January 6, 2017, 08:18:10 pm »
"Don't let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right."
"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing."
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn`t learn something from him."
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1897 on: January 6, 2017, 08:20:43 pm »
1900 straight through to 2016...

And label your axes if you want people to understand them
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Offline theMilkman

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1898 on: January 6, 2017, 08:24:42 pm »

1900 straight through to 2016...

And label your axes if you want people to understand them

Also, could you please add a link to the climate models you're referring to? I'm more interested in their modelling approach so if you don't have a link just the author and journal- thanks.
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1899 on: January 6, 2017, 09:14:05 pm »
Also, could you please add a link to the climate models you're referring to? I'm more interested in their modelling approach so if you don't have a link just the author and journal- thanks.




http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcrut4/data/current/time_series/HadCRUT.4.5.0.0.monthly_ns_avg.txt
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt
http://data.remss.com/msu/graphics/TLT/time_series/RSS_TS_channel_TLT_Global_Land_And_Sea_v03_3.txt
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadsst3/data/download.html
http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0beta/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0beta5.txt
http://www.co2.earth/monthly-co2
http://scrippsco2.ucsd.edu/data/atmospheric_co2               




                                          
AII-7-6                                                      
reference as:   IPCC, 2013: Annex II: Climate System Scenario Tables [Prather, M., G. Flato, P. Friedlingstein, C. Jones, J.-F. Lamarque, H. Liao and P. Rasch (eds.)]. In: Climate Change 2013:                                                    
   The Physical Science Basis. Contribution of Working Group I to the Fifth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change [Stocker,                                                    
   T.F., D. Qin, G.-K. Plattner, M. Tignor, S.K. Allen, J. Boschung, A. Nauels, Y. Xia, V. Bex and P.M. Midgley (eds.)]. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge,                                                   
dates:   published 31 January 2014; corrected xls-sheets as of 20 August 2014                                                   
full report:   http://www.climatechange2013.org/                                                   
AII contacts:    Michael Prather UC Irvine (mprather@uci.edu) and IPCC WG1 TSU (wg1@ipcc.unibe.ch, through 2015)                                                   
« Last Edit: January 6, 2017, 09:16:14 pm by lfcderek »
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1900 on: January 6, 2017, 09:16:07 pm »
1900 to 2016 bad boy
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1901 on: January 6, 2017, 10:45:35 pm »
Has there been anything done to predict how long the climate would take to return to normal, even with the impossible assumption that we stopped making it worse right now? Wondering if the historical record gives some sort of indication of the time scales involved. Happy to take links to papers and what have you (have access to journals just lack sufficient understanding to ask right questions ;)).
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Offline Red Raw

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1902 on: January 7, 2017, 03:41:17 am »
Has there been anything done to predict how long the climate would take to return to normal, even with the impossible assumption that we stopped making it worse right now? Wondering if the historical record gives some sort of indication of the time scales involved. Happy to take links to papers and what have you (have access to journals just lack sufficient understanding to ask right questions ;)).
There is a free MOOC (massive open online course) on climate change for those interested.  It offered by the University of Exeter and is pitched at the level of first year undergraduates.  It has no pre-requisites and as well as video lectures I think there are twitter/youtube sessions where you can query the academics directly.  Starts Jan 30th:
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/climate-change-challenges-and-solutions

Prof. Tim Lenton is probably best known for his work on environmental 'tipping points' i.e. a threshold where fundamental behavioural changes can be triggered by small pertubations.  See for example  http://www.pnas.org/content/105/6/1786.full.pdf

Historical records (temperature, ice, biological, chemical etc.) are important because they can be used to infer the nature of the dynamic 'landscape'.  For example periodic oscillations in dynamic systems can often slow down as a tipping point is approached, think of a dropped marble rocking about in a large mixing bowl.  If changes within the system mean that the mixing bowl gets shallower the period of the oscillating marble increases i.e. it slows down.  If the bowl gets shallower still (like a curved plate maybe) the oscillations may stop altogether but this equilibrium is unstable because small changes either in the forcing of the marble or in geometry of the bowl/plate (perhaps it becomes inverted or convex) mean that the marble can roll off anywhere.  Depending on the landscape, this maybe to a different bowl (new steady state) or off the table altogether (irreversible change).


Offline Zeb

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1903 on: January 7, 2017, 04:05:19 am »
I'll certainly try searching for what I'm after through a complex systems prism again, thank you. :)

edit2: and got it. Thank you Red Raw. http://www.pnas.org/content/106/6/1704.full.pdf Ouch.

edit; will check out the MOOC when my head isn't filled with figures for truck production in 1937. :D
« Last Edit: January 7, 2017, 04:15:50 am by Zeb »
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Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1904 on: January 7, 2017, 12:48:49 pm »
I'll certainly try searching for what I'm after through a complex systems prism again, thank you. :)

edit2: and got it. Thank you Red Raw. http://www.pnas.org/content/106/6/1704.full.pdf Ouch.

edit; will check out the MOOC when my head isn't filled with figures for truck production in 1937. :D

Not sure if this answers your question but if we stopped all CO2 emissions now we'd still expect some warming to take place (about 0.6şC if I remember correctly). It would take several decades to reach the new equilibrium. After that the temperature would remain at that level until another driver kicked in. I would expect some cooling to occur because of the configuration of the Milankovitch cycles but it would be a slow process.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1905 on: January 7, 2017, 02:42:00 pm »
Thanks Bio. yeah it does. Red Raw set me on the right track to some answers to my fuzzily framed and narrow question too. eg Very useful to be reminded that if CO2 leaves the atmosphere, it has to go somewhere, and that too then has consequences even over a time scale of hundreds of thousands of years.
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Offline SP

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1906 on: January 7, 2017, 03:00:16 pm »
The shrinking rainforests also affect the rate of removal of CO2. Man made effects screw up more than just the atmospheric composition.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1907 on: January 7, 2017, 04:47:28 pm »
Yeah. Reading some of the papers this morning and afternoon, I guess I'm still struggling to take in just the scale of this. eg I read 'extinction event' and in some way it's just words. And then you realise over the next 400 years the pH of the oceans are going to change a lot and you start wondering just what survives that, and all of the consequences just that one thing brings.

Anyhows, thank you for answers, appreciated people making sense out the question. ;) Have signed up for the MOOC suggested. It's only 3 hours a week and looks very interesting.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2017, 04:50:38 pm by Zeb »
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Offline Red Raw

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1908 on: January 8, 2017, 12:52:11 am »
Well done for signing up for the mooc!  I take my hat off to anyone who seeks to expand their knowledge or understanding, either independently or through organised courses (that includes Derek).

I'd certainly be interested to hear what you think of the mooc and how the format fits in with 'normal' life.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1909 on: January 8, 2017, 01:25:23 am »
Will definitely post once it's happening. Looking at the introduction page so far, I'm feeling that postgrad 'hi, I'm the token arts and humanities student out of his depth' thing. ;) Thanks for the link.
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1910 on: January 9, 2017, 09:19:21 am »
Nothing to do with climate change but didn't know where else to put this. Found it fascinating.

http://www.anonews.co/earth-space-sun/


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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1912 on: January 9, 2017, 06:34:14 pm »
London breaches annual air pollution limit for 2017 in just five days

That's a very misleading description.

Quote
By law, hourly levels of toxic nitrogen dioxide must not be more than 200 micrograms per cubic metre (µg/m3) more than 18 times in a whole year, but late on Thursday this limit was broken on Brixton Road in Lambeth.

An hourly limit which must not be exceeded more than 18 times in a year was exceeded once, 5 days into the new year.

Huge Antarctic iceberg poised to break away

The article states "It is believed that climate warming has brought forward the likely separation of the iceberg but the scientists say they have no direct evidence to support this", although it goes on to say sea levels will be affected from this.


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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1913 on: January 10, 2017, 12:21:16 am »
That's a very misleading description.
Yes, we can really do without stuff like this. Helps nothing whatsoever to tabloid-sensationalise; only provides ammunition for the sceptics - be they shills, twattish contrarians, or otherwise - who continue to oppose every step toward us radically cleaning up our act.

The situation does not need extra dramatising for added oomph, the situation is serious enough when expressed in straightforward, dispassionate terms.
"under-promise and over-deliver"

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1914 on: January 13, 2017, 08:00:24 pm »
Something a little more charming in its own way - or at least I thought so. The college dropout who went to live in the mountains and whose diaries are now finding their way into academic work on climate change.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/billy-barr-climate-change/512198/
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1915 on: January 23, 2017, 10:26:30 am »
Not updated these for a year or so







A cautionary word - at the end of 2014 the actual slopes were flat and not sharply down as now. Will probably flatten again in the next couple of years - a long way below the IPCC models mind.

A bit of perspective comes from plotting the exact same data as above without all the decimal places in the vertical (0C) axis! 







http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/Marine_Atlas.html
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1916 on: January 23, 2017, 10:36:41 am »
I don't think it's that simple (would that it were), and iirc, ice has much higher albedo than cloud per metre squared.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/gRT-KZwOLLQ?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/gRT-KZwOLLQ?fs=1</a>
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1917 on: January 30, 2017, 01:26:17 pm »
There is a free MOOC (massive open online course) on climate change for those interested.  It offered by the University of Exeter and is pitched at the level of first year undergraduates.  It has no pre-requisites and as well as video lectures I think there are twitter/youtube sessions where you can query the academics directly.  Starts Jan 30th:
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/climate-change-challenges-and-solutions

Started up today, if anyone else is interested is signing up. All seems very accessible so far building up from the basics of 'what is climate'.
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1918 on: February 3, 2017, 06:14:12 pm »
First the monthly update to the current temp. graph.






No surprises – temperatures falling back to the long term trend line following the departure of the big El Nino.



Before I move on, a word on the meaning of a heading on a lot of my graphs

CO2 Atmospheric Physics Calcs - No Feedbacks (ECS=1)

Nothing magical – the IPCC (indeed everyone!) agree on the basic equation to calculate the rise in temp from a rise in CO2 – namely

∆T = (ECS) * (ln(C2/C1)) / ln(2)) 

where      ∆T = Change in temperature, °C   
               ECS = Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity , °C /doubling   
               C1 = CO2 concentration (PPM) at time 1   
               C2 = CO2 concentration (PPM) at time 2

Feed that into a spread sheet with this years and the start years CO2 figures gives you the temperature rise.

It’s the ECS – the multiplying factor – that I disagree with. The IPCC say 1.5 <-> 4.5 with a mean of 3.
 
Exaggerated bollocks.


Anyways - especially for Tepid here are some slightly ( ;D ) longer term graphs than the 18 year pause.


Firstly, one goes back to post WW2 when CO2 began to move upwards significantly. 

Looks close to no feedbacks to me.






This next one goes back to the start of temp records from Giss and Hadcrut – 1880. It then switches to satellite data from 1979 onwards.

Again, the tracking of ECS=1 as opposed to ECS=3 seems blatent.






To try to be fair, I’ve done the same graph as the one above but stayed with Giss/H4 (ground station) data. This now more straddles the ECS1 and ECS3 lines.






This illustrates one of the big bones of contention in the Global Warming saga  - namely, the Urban Heat Island Effect.  i.e. ground stations exhibit an illusory temperature rise by virtue of increasing populations around the sites of the thermometers.

One of the endless problems that really need sorting out.


220 years a long enough period?






Finally, the graph that (in large measure) started it all.





This was touted by Gavin Schmidt of the NASA Goddard Institute (GISS), Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit  University of East Anglia (HADCRUT), and Michael (hockey stick) Mann  as the end of civilisation as we know it.

It (for thirty years) maps the 3X predictions and led to the ‘Large Positive Feedbacks’ nonsense.

It’s the only 30 year period to do so.


Except – of course – 1910-1940 – when there was virtually NO CO2 RISE!


Natural variation anyone?





Last post for a while - you're problably glad to hear!  Spending far too much time on it of late. Will try and update the main graph at the end of Feb
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1919 on: February 5, 2017, 04:06:37 pm »
Well Derek, looks like we get a chance to see what happens when Trump abandons all climate change legislation. If you're right then my son and future generations will be fine and you can say 'I told you so'.  If you're wrong will the millions of dead around the world be able to get any compensation from you and the other climate change deniers?

That's what I don't understand. There is no downside for humanity as a whole if climate change is taken seriously. Of course oil companies are happy to lie and distort facts (some of the same lobbyists who lied about tobacco are lying about climate change) but what's in it for you?
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