Topic: Assange appeal denied on EU, rather than English law.

[conman]

Are you accusing the Swedish court system of dishonesty?

i'm accusing the US of interference, by having a judge selected who is absolutely not impartial. or maybe it was a complete coincidence.

Pirate Bay Judge Exposed as Member of Pro-Copyright Groups
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/pirateconflict/

You also have to look no further than Michael Shields, Yulia Tymoshenko, The Guilford 4, the Birmingham 6 to see Western governments perversion of justice.

I don't know. Do you have any proof of corruption or dishonesty in the Swedish justice system

see above,

also: An April 2008 Pirate Party press release called the potential conflict of interest a "bribing scandal". Piratbyrån wrote about the allegations:
If the trial wasn't already just a political theatre, this clearly shows that this is not a fair and balanced trial. The copyright industry stands no chance in an objective legal judgement and therefore have to cheat their way forward. Their legitimacy has hit rock bottom
These matters have not been resolved in court and even though Keyzer was scheduled to be a witness in the Pirate Bay trial, he was not called

http://static.thepiratebay.org/pm/20080418_eng.txt

http://pcforalla.idg.se/2.1054/1.214955/aklagaren-aterkallar-vittnen-i-pirate-bay-rattegangen

Pirate Bay were providing illegal downloads. They can hardly complain about being shut down by a court and no-one can really complain about US threatening trade sanctions over an issue which affects US trade.

Does it affect US trade? I don't want to get into this seperate debate, but the movie & record industry is bigger than ever. Many artists see filesharing as a means of marketing. But, hey. lets not get into this. It would be much better if the MPIAA provided a solution so people can buy easily & download.

Again, prove it.

The main concern with an extradition to Sweden is that Assange will then be extradited to the United States. In another prominent document released by WikiLeaks, called the Global Intelligence Files, a portion of up to 5m emails were released from a private, global intelligence firm called Stratfor, based in Austin, Texas. The firm's vice president for intelligence, Fred Burton, wrote in a 26 January 2011 email:

"Not for Pub – We have a sealed indictment on Assange. Pls protect."

If an indictment has been issued in secret, then Assange could find himself in US custody shortly after landing in Sweden. He could be charged with espionage (the Obama administration has already invoked the law more than all previous US administrations combined), and could be imprisoned for life or executed.

http://wikileaks.org/Stratfor-Emails-US-Has-Issued.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/31/americas-vendetta-against-wikileaks-julian-assange

here's a little info on the case, Assange & the 2 women: (a rather strange series of events)
http://www.smh.com.au/national/did-he-or-didnt-he-the-murky-politics-of-sex-and-consent-20101211-18tie.html

[BIGdavalad]

i'm accusing the US of interference, by having a judge selected who is absolutely not impartial. or maybe it was a complete coincidence.

Pirate Bay Judge Exposed as Member of Pro-Copyright Groups
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/pirateconflict/

But Bylander says it’s a toss-up as to whether the appeals court will find the conflict serious enough to throw out the verdict. "I don’t think the trial will be declared a mistrial, but it’s definitely a close call," he says.

You also have to look no further than Michael Shields, Yulia Tymoshenko, The Guilford 4, the Birmingham 6 to see Western governments perversion of justice.
see above

The Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six were before I was born, not exactly a modern example. They were also down the the police and not the government perverting justice.

Neither Bulgaria or Ukraine are western.

also: An April 2008 Pirate Party press release called the potential conflict of interest a "bribing scandal". Piratbyrån wrote about the allegations:
If the trial wasn't already just a political theatre, this clearly shows that this is not a fair and balanced trial. The copyright industry stands no chance in an objective legal judgement and therefore have to cheat their way forward. Their legitimacy has hit rock bottom
These matters have not been resolved in court and even though Keyzer was scheduled to be a witness in the Pirate Bay trial, he was not called

http://static.thepiratebay.org/pm/20080418_eng.txt

Pirate Bay and their supporters are hardly likely to come out and say it was a fair trial, they agree completely with the verdict and, on reflection, it was a bit naughty really, are they?

Does it affect US trade? I don't want to get into this seperate debate, but the movie & record industry is bigger than ever. Many artists see filesharing as a means of marketing. But, hey. lets not get into this. It would be much better if the MPIAA provided a solution so people can buy easily & download.

The industry obviously believe so as they are so keen on anti-piracy measures.

The main concern with an extradition to Sweden is that Assange will then be extradited to the United States. In another prominent document released by WikiLeaks, called the Global Intelligence Files, a portion of up to 5m emails were released from a private, global intelligence firm called Stratfor, based in Austin, Texas. The firm's vice president for intelligence, Fred Burton, wrote in a 26 January 2011 email:

"Not for Pub – We have a sealed indictment on Assange. Pls protect."

If an indictment has been issued in secret, then Assange could find himself in US custody shortly after landing in Sweden. He could be charged with espionage (the Obama administration has already invoked the law more than all previous US administrations combined), and could be imprisoned for life or executed.

My main advice to him then would be not to commit espionage against the United States. In fact, I'd say not committing crimes that can lead to spending a long time in prison or waking a long drop attached to a short rope is generally good advice to everyone.

[biratl]

Aye. Let's all be passive lapdogs then eh? Kudos to Assange I say. You talk as if the United States has been clean in its dealings. Ask the drone strike victims of Pakistan and see if you get the same reaction.

[BIGdavalad]

Aye. Let's all be passive lapdogs then eh? Kudos to Assange I say. You talk as if the United States has been clean in its dealings. Ask the drone strike victims of Pakistan and see if you get the same reaction.

What the fuck have drone strikes in Pakistan got to do with a man accused of very serious crimes in both Sweden and possibly the US doing a lot of work to avoid being sent to speak to the police of Sweden?


One funny thing though, even if Ecuador give the twat political asylum how is he going to get there? Unless they're going to stick him in a huge sack and claim it's a diplomatic bag he still has to leave 'Ecuador' (in the form of their London embassy) and return to the UK (in the form  of the pavement outside the embassy) where the Met are very much looking forward to speaking to him about the bail he's jumped.

Well, two funny things really - the list of the tossers who put up his bail money is highly amusing when you read it and think about the money that some of them have lost supporting this selfish c*nt.

[kopitecrash]

By the sounds of it yes, they and Ellsberg should have been

So in your world someone that exposes government lies, a whistleblower, should go to jail? So what do you think about the lack of punishment for those peoples revealed to have lied, to have killed thousands through their descsisions, revelaed by whistleblowers?

[Corkboy]

One funny thing though, even if Ecuador give the twat political asylum how is he going to get there? Unless they're going to stick him in a huge sack and claim it's a diplomatic bag he still has to leave 'Ecuador' (in the form of their London embassy) and return to the UK (in the form  of the pavement outside the embassy) where the Met are very much looking forward to speaking to him about the bail he's jumped.

“The government of Ecuador has a capacity under international law to grant Assange political asylum, in which case he would be eligible to enjoy protected passage from the United Kingdom to Ecuador.” source

[BIGdavalad]

Ah well, if it works it'll give the large number of CIA active in Ecuador and South America something to do.

All the effort he's making to avoid those rape allegations in Sweden ending in some random CIA operative asking 'does this cloth smell like chloroform to you?' and sticking him on a plane to Washington would be funny as fuck.

[BIGdavalad]

Apparently though, Mr Freedom of Information doesn't like anyone to know what happens where he works

Guardian

A former WikiLeaks spokesman has condemned Julian Assange for demanding that staff for the whistleblowing website sign a gagging order that imposes a penalty of up to £12m on anyone who breaks it.

German activist Daniel Domscheit-Berg said that in imposing the draconian confidentiality agreement on its employees WikiLeaks was behaving too much like the governments and businesses it purports to expose.

[Corkboy]

Sat Aug 20 23:41:31 2011 GMT

Five days short of a year ago, on 25 August 2010, WikiLeaks suspended former employee "Daniel Domscheit-Berg". Over the last 11 months, we have tried to negotiate the return of various materials taken by Mr. Domscheit-Berg, including internal communications and over 3000 unpublished, private whistleblower communications to WikiLeaks. Mr. Domscheit-Berg has repeatedly attempted to blackmail WikiLeaks by threatening to make available, to forces that oppose WikiLeaks, these private communications and to which Mr. Domscheit-Berg is not a party. He has stated he will commit this action, should WikiLeaks move to charge him with sabotage or theft. Mr. Domscheit-Berg has refused to return the various materials he has stolen, saying he needs them, solely, to carry out this threat. Mr. Domscheit-Berg has already, secretly, and with malicious intent, disclosed portions of the private communications content to other parties, to the harm of WikiLeaks.

The negotiations have now been terminated by the mediator, Andy Müller-Maguhn, who has stated that he doubts Mr. Domscheit-Berg's integrity and claimed willingness to return the material and that under those circumstances Müller-Maguhn cannot meaningfully continue to mediate. In response, Mr. Domscheit-Berg has stated that he has, or is about to, destroy thousands of unpublished whistleblowers disclosures sent to WikiLeaks. The material is irreplaceable and includes substantial information on many issues of public importance, human rights abuses, mass telecommunications interception, banking and the planning of dozens of neo-nazi groups. Our sources have in some cases risked their lives or freedom attempting to convey these disclosures to WikiLeaks and to the public. source

Any story about wikileaks is like an onion.

[classycarra]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/12/wikileaks-confidentiality-agreement-julian-assange

different motivation is suggested here, from one of assange's former colleagues

[Conocinico]

By the sounds of it yes, they and Ellsberg should have been

*shakes head*

[BIGdavalad]

Any story about wikileaks is like an onion.

My God, he threatened to release private communications to another party hostile to Wikileaks? What an utter bounder. You can see why Wikileaks wouldn't like him then.

So Wikileaks feel that they're entitled to private communications but no-one else is?

Whining about sources risking their lives from a group that published the names of anti-Taleban informers is pretty funny too.

*shakes head*

Congratulations on your erudite, well written answer.

[SMD]

Anyone reckon BIGDavalad's been hacked by Assange?

[conman]

Anyone reckon BIGDavalad's been hacked by Assange?

lol. he is a defender of governments.

so, can wikileaks be classified as journalism? they release information pertinent to public interests, as do the press. although the press often use hacking to obtain their info, wikileaks merely release the info obtained by hackers.

[BIGdavalad]

Anyone reckon BIGDavalad's been hacked by Assange?

Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.

No.

[Corkboy]

My God, he threatened to release private communications to another party hostile to Wikileaks? What an utter bounder. You can see why Wikileaks wouldn't like him then.

So Wikileaks feel that they're entitled to private communications but no-one else is?

Whining about sources risking their lives from a group that published the names of anti-Taleban informers is pretty funny too

He was, on their telling, blackmailing Wikileaks. Wikileaks never blackmail anyone. They never say, do this or that or we'll release such and such. They just release.

[BIGdavalad]

He was, on their telling, blackmailing Wikileaks. Wikileaks never blackmail anyone. They never say, do this or that or we'll release such and such. They just release.

Meh, he's just taking their business model a stage further.

[Corkboy]

Meh, he's just taking their business model a stage further.

That wouldn't be hard, considering Wikileaks are non profit, which isn't much of a business model.

[BIGdavalad]

That wouldn't be hard, considering Wikileaks are non profit, which isn't much of a business model.

It is if your aim is to run as a not for profit company. This fella's just gone a stage further and decided to make a profit out of it.

[Corkboy]

It is if your aim is to run as a not for profit company. This fella's just gone a stage further and decided to make a profit out of it.

What do you think of the newspapers who publish the Wikileaks leaks?

[BIGdavalad]

What do you think of the newspapers who publish the Wikileaks leaks?

They're reporting on a story. Why?

[Corkboy]

They're reporting on a story.

No they're not. They're republishing, often verbatim. Why don't they attract the same censure?

[conman]

No they're not. They're republishing, often verbatim. Why don't they attract the same censure?

that was my point, some news papers go that step further though and do hack to steal their info. unlike wikileaks

[BIGdavalad]

No they're not. They're republishing, often verbatim. Why don't they attract the same censure?

I don't know how it works legally.

I believe (from the coverage I saw) they didn't republish everything verbatim. I don't remember ever seeing the informants names republished for instance (I may be wrong).

[BIGdavalad]

that was my point, some news papers go that step further though and do hack to steal their info. unlike wikileaks

Unlike Wikileaks who just let someone else hack and pass what they find on. Let's not pretend there's any actual difference between the two.

[conman]

Unlike Wikileaks who just let someone else hack and pass what they find on. Let's not pretend there's any actual difference between the two.

So wikileaks allow someone else to hack, then they pass it on. The press allow wikileaks (or anyone else) give them that same hacked (or otherwise) info, then they pass it on.

The CIA/Gov for that matter, allow anyone give them info (illegally obtained or not) to which they will use to their advantage.

much of a muchness.

[conman]

I don't know how it works legally.

I believe (from the coverage I saw) they didn't republish everything verbatim. I don't remember ever seeing the informants names republished for instance (I may be wrong).

wikileaks blacked out many sensitive details too, in an effort to minimize casualty's.


America was full of praise & supportive of wikileaks before they released info involving them. Tables have turned i guess.

[Corkboy]

much of a muchness.

Wikileaks are different, there isn't really any money involved. They sit there, people bring them documents and if they are satisfied the documents are genuine, they just hand them over to anyone who wants to read them. No ads, no wealthy backers, no seeking advantage, no editorial slant. Despite what people say, they go to great lengths to ensure no physical harm happens to anyone, and indeed nobody has ever been shown to have been harmed. Except for Bradley Manning, (if you count cruel and inhuman treatment as harm) which is sort of ironic.

[Conocinico]

Congratulations on your erudite, well written answer.

It wasn't an answer, it was my reaction.

[BIGdavalad]

Anyway, even our bail jumping alleged rapists' mates are turning on him now and say he should be off to Sweden to face trial

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9348358/Julian-Assange-WikiLeaks-man-must-face-court-says-Jemima-Khan.html

[Bob Loblaw]

He's no better than those c*nts involved in the phone tapping scandals.

[Corkboy]

He's no better than those c*nts involved in the phone tapping scandals.

Again, the motives are entirely different. Murdoch's spawn tapped phones to sell newspapers.

[BIGdavalad]

Assange - Afghan informants deserve to die

[kopitecrash]

Assange - Afghan informants deserve to die

Oh bloody hell. That is shocking.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Assange - Afghan informants deserve to die

To them, they are traitors. I'd class them the same as I would a mercenary; whatever happens to them, they knew the risks. Surely they realise that also.

[Conocinico]

So far the Guardian have accused Assange of being a misogynist, a chauvinist, a fantasist, antisemitic, paranoid, cowardly and now, according to Cohen and Leigh, he doesn't give a fuck if he causes the deaths of brave Afghans.

I wonder whatever next.

[BIGdavalad]

To them, they are traitors. I'd class them the same as I would a mercenary; whatever happens to them, they knew the risks. Surely they realise that also.

You'd think the man who supplied their names to the world may think slightly more of their safety though.

[BIGdavalad]

Wikileaks founder Julian Assange has been served with an extradition notice by the Metropolitan Police.

Officers from the extradition unit delivered a note to Mr Assange at Ecuador's London embassy.

Mr Assange took refuge there last week and is seeking diplomatic asylum to prevent being sent to Sweden where he is accused of rape and assault.

Scotland Yard said the notice required a 40-year-old man to attend a police station "at a time of our choosing".

'Standard procedure'
The Wikileaks website published a mass of leaked diplomatic cables that embarrassed several governments and international businesses.

Mr Assange fears that if he is sent to Sweden he could be sent on to the United States to face charges over Wikileaks and that he could face the death penalty.

In a brief statement to the BBC, Scotland Yard said: "This is standard procedure in extradition cases and is the first step in the removal process.

"He remains in breach of his bail conditions and failure to surrender would be a further breach of those conditions and he is liable to arrest."

Under international diplomatic arrangements, the Metropolitan Police cannot go into the embassy to arrest Mr Assange.

Mr Assange, whose bail conditions include staying at a named address between 22:00 and 08:00 BST, arrived at the embassy in Knightsbridge on Tuesday last week

Ecuador is considering Mr Assange's application for asylum.

Beeb

[Corkboy]

Seen outside the Ecuador Embassy...

[Trada]

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 2m2 minutes ago

Assange: I will accept arrest by British police on Friday if UN rules against me. More info: https://justice4assange.com/