Topic: Spyin' Kop: Middlesborough (Away) 12/01/08

[Walter Sobchak]

With our league winning aspirations taking a couple of knocks recently we need to get back on track fast. So the last fixture most of us would want to see down as our next game would be Middlesborough away. There have been few less fruitful hunting grounds outside the other top four teams in recent years than the Riverside Stadium. For the record (those of a nervous disposition look away now) we haven’t won there since the 01/02 season, when goals from Michael Owen and Paddy Berger sealed a 2-0 win. Both teams have suffered from inconsistency this season but after beating Arsenal here last month boro will be confident of snatching an unlikely win and compounding the Reds current downturn in form.

Middlesborough FC vs Liverpool Football Club
12/01/2008
Riverside Stadium
Capacity: 35,100
Referee: Andre Mariner
3.00 kickoff

Boro Honours:
League Cup
Winners 2003-04
Runners up 1996-97, 1997-98

UEFA Cup
Runners up 2005-06

FA Cup
Runners up 1996-97

Football League First Division
Champions 1994-95
Runners up 1997-98

Football League Second Division
Champions 1926-27, 1928-29, 1973-74
Runners up 1901-02, 1991-92

Football League Third Division
Runners up 1966-67, 1986-87

FA Amateur Cup
Winners 1894-95, 1897-98

Anglo-Scottish Cup
Winners 1976

Zenith Data Systems Cup
Runners up 1990

This week Spyin Kop visited the very helpful http://www.comeonboro.com/ and got answers from the editor, Andy Morgan and contributors to the site Tom Warnock and ‘Smog on the Tyne’.


SK: 15th in the league, is it fair to say this season hasn’t shaped up the way you expected?

TW: With the singings we made and the loss of Viduka and Yakubu there was only one way the season was going. We have been unlucky in some games this season like Newcastle and Sunderland, but we have got equally fortunate against the likes of Fulham and Birmingham at home. So we are about where we deserve to be.
ANDY: It's pretty much what we expected. Going into the season we had sold Viduka and Yakubu was unsettled. It was clear he no longer wanted to play for us.  We replaced these players with untested players (Tuncay) or ones not deemed good enough to play for their old clubs (Mido, Aliadiere). That was a risk. I predicted 13th this season so not too far off.
SOTT: I had hopes for an easier season than the last one, however deep down I knew it would be tough losing our main goal threats. I think we'll get slightly better but it's highly unlikely we'll finish higher than 12th.


SK: You've been inconsistent this season (sounds familiar) and there have been question marks over Gareth Southgate’s ability. What’s your opinion of him and opinion amongst ‘boro fans in general?

TW: My opinion of him as a former captain of the club is very high, and he is without doubt a Boro legend, but he is not managerial material yet, he could be in the future, but I feel he is learning from his mistakes at the club's expense and detriment. He would've been better off starting at a lower league club much like Paul Ince has done.
ANDY: We all want Gareth to succeed but many of us wonder whether taking on a Premier League club as your first managerial job is wise. It sort of worked for Bryan Robson though but we needed an experience manager to push us beyond our UEFA Cup Final experience. That didn't happen.
The fans believe that Southgate is not tough or ruthless enough but many have the patience to allow him to see what he can do. We're not like the Geordies up the road who demand instant success. We all want Southgate to succeed and are willing, within reason, to give him the time to show his mettle.
SOTT: Personally, I have a lot of time for Gareth. He knows how the game should be played and is a very decent bloke. I'll support him because, despite the noisy pessimists saying otherwise, I think he will eventually take us forward. After all more experienced managers than Southgate have struggled at times before achieving success - see Moyes, Mark Hughes, O'Neill.


SK: The FA Cup. After being drawn against league two Mansfield Town how do you rate your chances of winning the cup? and what’s more important a good cup run or an improvement in league form?

TW: We seem to be a cup team, and the league is a lost cause in terms of acheiving anything, what we need to ensure is that we aren't relegated - and realistically that is the only important thing. A good cup run certainly lifts morale, but as we found in 1997, it can also be disastrous. As it stands we have a good chance of progressing, but you don't know what the next round's draw will hold.
ANDY: It's certainly a positive tie. Boro are a better side away from home this season so we are looking to qualify for the fifth round. A favourable draw here and a few Premier League teams being knocked out and it is distinctly possible. Despite this though, I'd just be happy if a trophy was won by a side other than "The Big Four"
SOTT: Doubt we'll win it, but we're a decent cup team so you live in hope. We'll probably go out to a penalty from a Ronaldo dive versus Man U.


SK:Any young up and coming players in the squad that we should look out for?

TW: Benjamin Hutchinson is scoring for fun in the reserves and he recently scored in the Premier League, it’s about time our academy produced a striker, so I hope he can become a player of huge talent.
ANDY: Our Academy is one of the best in the country and there have been many good products coming out of it. Nathan Porritt (SK: we know about him already!) is the one shining star but we have yet to see much of him. David Wheater came in this season unannounced and done well. There may be many other similar unsung stars the ranks too.
SOTT: Wheater has looked impressive. Johnson was good on loan at Watford, hopefully he can start testing Premier League defences. Cattermole is at a crossroads; he can be either the next in a long line of decent English battling midfielders... or the next Phil Stamp


SK: Who have been your best performers this season?

TW: Julio Arca was instrumental before he was injured, Downing has been a reliable goal scorer aswell, and more recently Tuncay has started to fulfill his promise.
ANDY: Wheater all season, Tuncay since the end of November. The former has been the revelation of the season, the latter, once confidence was boosted after his first goal against Reading, has been revelationary for us.
SOTT: O'Neil looks an excellent buy. Tuncay has started to deliver after some early promise. Downing is showing his mettle despite the idiotic few shouting him down.


SK: And who has been most disappointing?

TW: Aliadiere should have more goals, and Dong Gook Lee has been extremely poor
ANDY: Jonathan Woodgate seems to be running on auto-pilot for whatever reason. Dong Gook Lee doesn't look Premier League standard but he is steadily improving. He does have some good skill and can hold the ball up. Shame he can do very little else and is too lightweight and easily knocked off the ball.
SOTT: Dong Gook has been poor, he's just not cut out for the English game judging by his displays. Woody has been inconsistent this season, but his class is there to see.


SK: If you could buy one player in january (realistically) who would it be?

TW: What defines realistically though haha - I would have to say a young, energetic striker such as the likes of Defoe.
ANDY: Jermain Defoe if it's realistic. Any striker will do though. Alves is being rumoured but is he tested in England or the Premier League? Perhaps two or three Championship players may be an idea - they're cheap and little will be risked. I personally like Misfud at Coventry.
SOTT: Alfonso Alves is being linked but for the money its a big risk. Defoe would be useful if he could be tempted from the big smoke.


SK: What are your favourite memories of past boro liverpool matches? (I’d imagine you’d have quite a few going by our record at your place)

TW: One of my best memories was when I was at Anfield when Geremi scored that fantastic free kick, just a shame they had to pull it back.
ANDY: The 3-3 match on the opening day of the 1996/97 season was magical. Ravenelli's debut gave us hope of a fantastic season to come. We then got relegated, but got to two cup finals, then lost them both. A ridiculous campaign.
SOTT: League cup semi final 97/98 season - Merse and Branca - awesome.


SK: Mystic Meg time - Where do you expect boro and Liverpool to finish in the Premier League?

TW: I daren't say where Boro will finish, but I would say 5th for Liverpool.
ANDY: If we get a striker, 11th, if not 16th. Liverpool 5th.
SOTT: Boro - 13th - typical run to survival and possible top half breakthrough, followed by end of season tail off.
Liverpool - 4th - I always tip Liverpool for a sneaky title but it never happens, I don't think it's too far off but I reckon this season Arse and Man U are picking up the wins, while Chelsea are to consistent.


SK: Which of your players should we look out for on saturday and which of ours do you fear the most?

TW: I'm very impressed by Babel everytime i watch him, and our best performers at the minute are Downing, O'Neil and Tuncay.
ANDY: Torres. He has been revelationary for you. Gerrard always seems to play well against us too - the goal in the 1-1 draw at Anfield a couple of seasons back was the best goal I have ever had the privilege of seeing live.
SOTT: Downing - even when he's not playing well he still seems to whip dangerous balls into the box - even if there is no one gambling on them.
Gerrard and Torres are a quality pair and if they play well then you could dish out a spanking.


SK. Finally, care to predict the score?

TW: 2-2
ANDY: 0-0. You're not firing in the League and the Boro are not firing at all. It will be a close game as we always seem to do well against the "Big Four". Had we been at Anfield I would have more confidence though, due to our inability to play well at home at the moment (Arsenal result aside).
SOTT: Gonna be optimistic and say 2-1 to the Boro. We often play well against the bigger clubs and I have a feeling we could dash your title hopes. Good luck for the season though, i'd love you to defy the critics and win the league.

Once again thanks to Andy and everyone at comeonboro.com who replied.....even if most of you reckon we'll only finish 5th!

Good luck in the relegation scrap 

© Walter Sobchak

[Corkboy]

Ravenelli's debut gave us hope of a fantastic season to come. We then got relegated, but got to two cup finals, then lost them both. A ridiculous campaign.

That was very funny, I remember that season. Boro had a team with Ravenelli, Juninho and that other jeri curl midfielder whose name escapes.

[Tiger Tony]

Finish 5th?! Stupid twats!

[Walter Sobchak]

That was very funny, I remember that season. Boro had a team with Ravenelli, Juninho and that other jeri curl midfielder whose name escapes.

emerson

[c0burn]

Finish 5th?! Stupid twats!

Now now Tony, say what you REALLY think ....

[Corkboy]

emerson

That's the lad. He was Platini one day, Robbie Savage the next.

[nidgemo]

lot of effort put in here, shame for  it to be on page 2.

bumpity bump.

[GinKop]

Good bump Nidge, just read through it now after reading the first half at work in stealth.

Don't think we'll finish 5th, for the rest they are quite a realistic bunch.

Cheers for that Walter.

[The Infamous_LFC]

I have always disliked Boro don't know why. 5th . The svengali and Redknapp hype is getting to peoples thinking.

I hope we give them a wipping.

[Phil M]

Good work Walter.

Seemed like good lads til they said we'd finish 5th!

But on the whole they seemed a realistic and knowledgeable bunch.

[Franck Le Poof]

Besides them predicting that we finish 5th, I must say they seem a decent bunch (am new to the whole hearing-what-opposition-fans-think thing, first time I read anything from them), hopefully we tear them to shreds though

Cheers, a great read!

[¡Basta Ya!]

Finish 5th?! Stupid twats!

More often than not, the reply to the 'where will Liverpool finish' question is our current position. When we were top, people where tipping us for the top and now we are 5th people think 5th (like we are some shitty fucking club that's done nothing over the past few seasons...).

Annoying.

[ALANM]

Enjoyed reading that and nice of ALL their season ticket holders to take part!!

[Rhino]

Good read that, hate going to Boro, coldest place on earth

[theCanadian]

That was revelationary.

[friendlyswift]

That was revelationary.

Was going to mention that -  never fails to amaze me when people on internet footy sites start thinking they're Eric Hobsbawm and end up making fools out of themselves.
Like on here in any thread to do with G&H every man and his dog throws in a line about the 'credit crunch' and the possible recession in the US as if they have any fucking idea what they're going on about.
And the way every c*nt feels obliged to use a dozen semi-colons in their posts when they have no concept of how to use them.

I remember when Bascombe went to write for the NotW (or it could have been Carragher's 'exclusive'), and every other post was 'not that I read any of those tabloid rags'......
Yeah right, I can just imagine everyone standing on the Kop with the Financial Times or the Guardian tucked under their arm. (But of course how many RAWKites do, have ever, or ever intend to make the 4,000 mile trip in order to stand on the Kop?)

Silly pretentious fools some.


Anyway good read mate nice one.

[Smogchat.com]

Hi im a boro fan from www.smogchat.com and we hope you will answer the questions below for our home game feature


1.   As a neutral, I find it infuriating when Benitez rotates players so much. What do you think of his rotation system?

2.   Why did he play such a negative formation at home to Wigan?

3.   Have you given up on the League or do you think it's still an achievable goal?

4.   We need some cheap strikers, and quick. Who can you give us?

5.   Why does Rafa continue to ignore Crouch when he is clearly the best option to play alongside Torres?

6.   Do you think Rafa can take you any further?

7.   Why is Rafa persisting with his beard?

8.   Is it true that Rafa sacked his youth coach? If so, what affect will this have on any potential youngsters coming through?

9.   Is your academy going to deliver the next premiership star? If so who?

10.   You have been linked with several boro payers in the last years, who would you want out of our squad ?

11.   Are you pleased to be the capital of culture this year?





Thanks

JK

[ben]

didn't there used to be more questions about liverpool in these things? personally, i thought the whole point was to find out what other clubs thought of us. couldnt care less what boro fans think of gareth southgate like.

[Joe_Singh]

Don't think we'll finish 5th, for the rest they are quite a realistic bunch.

Agree with that. I was thinking these guys know what they're talking about until they predicted we would finish 5th. I guess its to do with how we are perceived in the media.

[binge]

4.   We need some cheap strikers, and quick. Who can you give us? kuyt, voronin and you can have crouch aswell

[Taylor_LFC]

TW and Andy can both fuck off.

Hope 'Boro go down and take their half empty stadium with them.

[Istanbul Therapy Group]

1.  Good

2.   Dunno

3.   Achieveable

4.   Kuyt- 10m

5.   Dunno

6.   Yes

7.   It looks good

8.   Yes, Nothing

9.   12,14, 22,36,41, 1, 49, get on them tomorrow

10.  woodgate

11.   m'eh

[¡Basta Ya!]

1.   As a neutral, I find it infuriating when Benitez rotates players so much. What do you think of his rotation system?

Your not so much a neutral as being strung along by the media.  Compare Rafa's rotation to Fergie (Who'd never leave players out and lose against Bolton or West Ham), it's not that different.

It's won him 2 la liga's, a european cup, a uefa cup, fa cup, european super cup and 2 champions league finals in 3 seasons. But hey, we can't all have managers with the credentials of Gareth Southgate.

The most infuriating thing about this rotation lark is people spouting crap about it.

2.   Why did he play such a negative formation at home to Wigan?

Well, you seem a bright spark.

4-5-1 doesn't have to be a negative formation, infact it won Rafa la liga with the highest amount of goals scored and least conceded.

We needed width to combat their extremely negative tactics. The problem we have is that we don't have any top class wingers.

3.   Have you given up on the League or do you think it's still an achievable goal?

Baring a couple of losses from United in the next couple of games, which would put us right back in the mix (after our game in hand), I think it's gone. Silly results again Reading, City and Wigan have fucked it.

4.   We need some cheap strikers, and quick. Who can you give us?

Take your pick. Torres aside, they really aren't good enough.

5.   Why does Rafa continue to ignore Crouch when he is clearly the best option to play alongside Torres?

Because he clearly isn't.

6.   Do you think Rafa can take you any further?

Yes. He's a brilliant man and a brilliant manager. He needs to be backed for the very top players that United have been buying for 10 years, though.

7.   Why is Rafa persisting with his beard?

He likes it.

8.   Is it true that Rafa sacked his youth coach? If so, what affect will this have on any potential youngsters coming through?

No, he didn't sack him. Will his resignation effect youngsters... who knows.

9.   Is your academy going to deliver the next Premier League star? If so who?

It'll take a while for the new set up to come to fruition. So probably not the next star, although we do have some decent players. Insua is good, the rest are very good but very young.

10.   You have been linked with several boro payers in the last years, who would you want out of our squad ?

I like Wheater. Not sure if I want him. Woodgate is a good player, but I would only want him for the bench.

11.   Are you pleased to be the capital of culture this year?

Over the fuckin' moon





Thanks

JK

[/quote]

[magpie]

Any mention of Ravenelli makes me smile and remember the £2 I had on Bjornebye to score first at 50/1  in that 3-3 match. 

[Phil M]

Hi im a boro fan from www.smogchat.com and we hope you will answer the questions below for our home game feature


1.   As a neutral, I find it infuriating when Benitez rotates players so much. What do you think of his rotation system?

Hello. It is completely blown out of proportion by the media,
people need to realise their set on Benitez and I don't mean to moan, but when Wenger plays the youngsters in the Carling Cup or Ferguson rotates, they are simply 'resting' players and rarely get slated for it whilst Rafa is berated in the press.
League wise though we as fans would all like a more settled XI starting every week but to be fair, we have a spine of Reina, Carra,Mascherano,Gerrard and Torres that is probably as strong as any other side and injuries have prevented us from fielding our strongest team every week (Agger,Alonso,Aurelio etc.)
(sorry for the long answer)

2.  Why did he play such a negative formation at home to Wigan?

Rafa always has a method in his madness, and who am I to argue about his tactics? But at home, we expect to take teams like Wigan apart, we did it for the most part at home last season, so it was a huge disappointment. We were hit by a sucker punch but should have had enough to win the game despite the unfavourable formation.


3.Have you given up on the League or do you think it's still an achievable goal?

Never give up but being realistic it looks a huge task given
the deficit at present, we would need an unprecedented
winning run to get back to the top and we will have to
beat United, Chelsea and Arsenal away, so not easy!

4. We need some cheap strikers, and quick. Who can you give us?

Dirk Kuyt - I like Dirk and I haven't given up on him, he is better than his current form suggests but he has to be deployed in the box
and not playing so deep as he does for us all the time.
He will come good but he's a bit out of sorts since the death of his fatheer.

5. Why does Rafa continue to ignore Crouch when he is clearly the best option to play alongside Torres?

A lot of the supporters feel the same and it has been frustrating to
see Crouch left on the bench so often this season especially
when Dirk has been struggling, earlier this season he gave a few interviews expressing his desire to play which perhaps didn't go down well with Rafa but I think we will see more of Pete in the second half of the season.

6.   Do you think Rafa can take you any further?

Absolutely. The signing of Torrres is a clear indication.
Hopefully we will secure Mascherano's transfer in the summer and start bringing in a few more top quality players to help us challenge for the title. The behind the scenes stuff with the owners in recent times has not helped at all but how can we not show support to the man who made us champions of Europe in his first season and went so close again last year. If you look at the silly points we've dropped
e.g Pompey & Wigan at home, there are lots of mistakes that had we taken them, our league position would be far more positive. And it's not always Rafa's fault when the players don't take their chances.

7.   Why is Rafa persisting with his beard?

It is cool, no? Suits him. Gareth should grow one!

8.   Is it true that Rafa sacked his youth coach? If so, what affect will this have on any potential youngsters coming through?

No he didn't sack him. Steve Heighway won the FA Youth Cup last year again and did an unbelievable job at Melwood in his time for which I am sure we will reap the benefits of in the future.
It won't affect the youngsters because there is a very professional staff under Rafa and we have some really great potential
in the youth set up at present.


9.   Is your academy going to deliver the next Premier League star? If so who?

Lots of talk about the likes of Pacheco, Jay Spearing, Jack Hobbs has already played first team at CB, Nemeth and Putteridge are also promising, there are many who are looking good but it's too early to tell.

10.   You have been linked with several boro payers in the last years, who would you want out of our squad ?

Johnathan Woodgate is for me anyway, one of the best defenders around, but for his well documented injuries I would like him playing for us, Wheater looks promising while we are all aware of Downing's abilities on the left, an area where we have been found wanting at times over the last few seasons.

11.   Are you pleased to be the capital of culture this year?

I think it's great for the city of Liverpool, can only be a positive thing.

Cheers.


Phil

[Smogchat.com]

thanks guys i will come back again tonight to see if theres anyone else that has kindly offered their views

cheers

JK

[Walter Sobchak]

1. As a neutral, I find it infuriating when Benitez rotates players so much. What do you think of his rotation system?
but does he rotate more than ferguson, wenger, grant? as others have already said stats prove the top four all rotated just as much as eachother last year. i think the media blow it out of proportion and use rotation as a stick to beat benitez with. i get frustrated with rafa changing formations more than rotating players.

2. Why did he play such a negative formation at home to Wigan?
bah! there you go again, believing everything you read in the papers. we played with gerrard, kewell, pennant and torres all given a licence to attack. how is that negative?just because we didnt have two recognised strikers on the pitch doesnt mean it was negative

3. Have you given up on the League or do you think it's still an achievable goal?
its a long shot. a very long shot. but as i and many other lfc fans thought at the start of the season if we finish 6-9 points off the winners i'll be happy. considering we finished 21 points behind last season.

4. We need some cheap strikers, and quick. Who can you give us?
you can have torres. he's shite

5. Why does Rafa continue to ignore Crouch when he is clearly the best option to play alongside Torres?
crouch is one of those players who splits opinion right down the middle. in the early part of the season kuyt and torres showed a good understanding but on current form crouch is the best option. i expext he'll get more games in the 2nd half of the season

6. Do you think Rafa can take you any further?
yes. we are two maybe three players short of being serious contenders. and i believe if he is backed financially by the owners rafais the right man to get those players here.

7. Why is Rafa persisting with his beard?
dont you think he looks svelt?

8. Is it true that Rafa sacked his youth coach? If so, what affect will this have on any potential youngsters coming through?
he wanted to have more control over the youth setup. heighway disagreed so he left. it remains to be seen what effect it will have in the long run but it doesnt seem to have effected anything yet

9. Is your academy going to deliver the next Premier League star? If so who?
there's a lot of promising exciting youngsters in the under age teams at the moment but can they make it all the way thru? who knows?

10. You have been linked with several boro payers in the last years, who would you want out of our squad ?
when woodgate was leaving madrid i was all for going after him. i wouldnt take him now. downing maybe. but is he good enough for the highest level? not sure

11. Are you pleased to be the capital of culture this year?
of course, who wouldnt be. it can only be good for the city

[kavah]

good sk, thanks for that. I thought Boro were very good today, restricted us and created some good chances.

As for us, thank god for Torres - what a goal

And as for us finishing 5th !  You're having a laugh aren't you, who are poosibly going to catch us ? 

4   Liverpool    39
5   Everton       39
6   Aston Villa   39
7   Man City     39