Author Topic: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.  (Read 34324 times)

Offline St Skrtel

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #280 on: January 17, 2009, 05:53:54 pm »
I voice this out in advance, "It's important to win... but more important not to lose" is ture for derby match.

Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #281 on: January 17, 2009, 05:54:13 pm »
I think the key point is our attitude/game plan/formation at Anfield.

Yet again, the same as last season our record at home is not good enough and it is our form at home that is going to dictate whether we are in the mix or not come May.

You cant win games if you dont attack. Hull was a prime example. Two nil down and we go for it and claw the goals back. Its my belief we would have won that game if we stuck to our guns but we took our own wind out of our sails that day after HT and Hull got a draw.
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Offline cakmin

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #282 on: January 17, 2009, 05:55:05 pm »
Oii...what's the fuse about?

I have said it we will never win the league when we drew at home against Stoke. Now you all believe me ;D

Seriously, please stop this debate about we will and or will not win the league now. I think if we really want to win the league, then playing with creativity and braveness (is it an English word) is necessary. Now, can anyone  please tell Rafa the Gaffer and the front 5 to please, please, please just for one season, please play like we really want to win the league, not just being scared to lose.

Offline Fordy

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #283 on: January 17, 2009, 05:55:56 pm »
stoke at home we owned them. just couldnt get it in the back off the net.
were doing the same as last year playing well but drawing to many =D still in are hands kind off

See when you controlling games and your still not scoring thats when you have to take risks to win the game.

Throw a defender up front, put all your attackers on. Do something. Rafa hasnt the balls and it could cost us badly.

Offline cakmin

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #284 on: January 17, 2009, 05:59:22 pm »
See when you controlling games and your still not scoring thats when you have to take risks to win the game.

Throw a defender up front, put all your attackers on. Do something. Rafa hasnt the balls and it could cost us badly.

Sometimes, we need to do it, to win at all cost. When one of the top 4 is bound to drop points, then we need to win. This is how we overtake the other competitors.

Offline MagicB8all

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #285 on: January 17, 2009, 05:59:58 pm »
As some of the brighter amongst us have said, it is still in our hands.

If we win our games we win the title.

The key point which some are forgetting is the trip to Old Trafford.

We don't have to have Man U drop any points, we can take points off them ourselves.



absolutely ! in fact if you look at the table we're very similar in all aspects to Utd at the moment, we just have to stay with 1 point and beat them away - 
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

Offline Keens

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #286 on: January 17, 2009, 06:00:05 pm »
It is important to always play to win, always...there might be games where a draw is acceptable, but we must do our best to win. If we play at our level, we will win, not only the game but this league.
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Offline litmanen37

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #287 on: January 17, 2009, 06:00:38 pm »
absolutely ! in fact if you look at the table we're very similar in all aspects to Utd at the moment, we just have to stay with 1 point and beat them away - 

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Offline t0m

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #288 on: January 17, 2009, 06:01:28 pm »
See when you controlling games and your still not scoring thats when you have to take risks to win the game.

Throw a defender up front, put all your attackers on. Do something. Rafa hasnt the balls and it could cost us badly.

So many games rafa jsut has to gamble because we can NOT afford to drop points. im just hoping by the time we play united at old trafford were just behind or ahead. because thats the game we need to win(offcourse the next 13 to)

next games tho
9 Jan, 2009   Everton   Barclays Premier League   H   20:00   
25 Jan, 2009   Everton   FA Cup 4th Round   H   16:00   
28 Jan, 2009   Wigan Athletic   Barclays Premier League   A   19:45   
01 Feb, 2009   Chelsea   Barclays Premier League   H   16:00   
07 Feb, 2009   Portsmouth   Barclays Premier League   A   17:30   
22 Feb, 2009   Manchester City   Barclays Premier League   H   15:00   
then CL real Madrid
bar chelsea but we need to win them all f.a cup couldnt give a shit to be honest put B team out. the fans want the prem.

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Offline firing squad

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #289 on: January 17, 2009, 06:05:04 pm »
we all know that we should attack and play offensively,especially when we have to score but the fact is that at the end of the day it's up to RAFA and his tactics so there's really no point in everyone stating the obvious here and we all know that he doesn't do such things and often settles for a draw.

I've said it 1000 times,it doesn't matter who we buy and how much money we spend we will NEVER win the league unless Rafa STOPS BEING STUBBORN.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:06:53 pm by firing squad »
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Offline Alf

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #290 on: January 17, 2009, 06:08:09 pm »
When were losing at Home to Boro and Wigan we threw the kitchen sink at them and came back and won. I don't see that same urgency in us at 0-0 or when we got level at Anfield against Hull. Fuck it lets go to 2 at the back and stick 4 up front in the last 10 minutes.

Offline t0m

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #291 on: January 17, 2009, 06:08:25 pm »
we all know that we should attack and play offensively,especially when we have to score but the fact is that at the end of the day it's up to RAFA and his tactics so there's really no point in everyone stating the obvious here and we all know that he doesn't do such things and often settles for a draw.

I've said it 1000 times,it doesn't matter who we buy and how much money we spend we will NEVER win the league unless Rafa STOPS BEING STUBBORN.

going to have a fag the draw back on this is that we dont win at home on monday were out off it. i know it sounds stupid but its facts
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #292 on: January 17, 2009, 06:08:44 pm »
Give me strength. We never 'went for it at Villa. We certainly didnt go for it at Arsenal, in fact we were worse in the last 25 minutes than anything ive seen bar Stoke. We waited 85 minutes at Stoke before we decided to actually attack them properly.

Straw grasping of the amazing kind there.
United were exactly the same as us against Stoke they had 2 chances at the end took one we hit the woodwork twice. Stoke were 1 nil up against Chelsea today after 88minutes Chelsea had 2 chances scored both.

At Arsenal we had 2 great chances at the end missed both of them.

Did United go for it against Villa and Arsenal No they didn't they did even worse than us.
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Offline Vladi Legend

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #293 on: January 17, 2009, 06:12:10 pm »
I would love to know these games were we haven't gone for it.

Stoke last 5 minutes hit the bar and post

Arsenal El Zhar inches wide with a header at the end

Villa Keane one one one at the end

We haven't taken our chances that has been the difference

Out of those three examples we really only went for it against Stoke. We didn't do enough imo to win the Villa and Arsenal games and especially against 10 men of Arsenal. We should have gone for the throat in those two games but that's the major difference between Rafa's attitude and Fergie's attitude.
Ya we have been talking in the half time, we need to do something, we need to change things and maybe if we score then it will be different and we scored and it was different.  - Rafael Benitez Ataturk Stadium Istanbul 26 May 2005

Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #294 on: January 17, 2009, 06:13:11 pm »
United were exactly the same as us against Stoke they had 2 chances at the end took one we hit the woodwork twice. Stoke were 1 nil up against Chelsea today after 88minutes Chelsea had 2 chances scored both.

At Arsenal we had 2 great chances at the end missed both of them.

Did United go for it against Villa and Arsenal No they didn't they did even worse than us.

Just stop. Weve had our chances and blew it. We've got to hope for more because Benitez style doesnt lend itself to what we need.
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Offline Fruity

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #295 on: January 17, 2009, 06:14:13 pm »
well you have to be in it to win it and we certainly are. I think chelsea and united are laying down the gauntlet and we have to respond. I personally feel for us as a team we need to go at teams from the off. The fans and players seem to get far too nervous at the latter stages when there are no goals scored and I just dont think we can handle it. We need to try and win games early and make it comfortable for ourselves, relieve the pressure. Go at teams from the off rather than playing our slow tempo control game. We need to play like we did against newcastle and keep that same momentum. I know its easy to say try and nick an early goal but the only time we play with urgency is when we go a goal down or the last 10 minutes. We have to play with a high tempo from the off. Similar to our euro games

United's extra games including their little run in the carling cup will impact at some point and if we are there or there abouts they will drop points.
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Offline youll never walk alone it

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #296 on: January 17, 2009, 06:16:12 pm »
why are people going on about villa an arsenal games ffs?  think fukin hull an westham home an stoke away,  thats where it went wrong, no-one expeckts to win at arsenal, both them games were decent points.
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Offline its cold in the stands

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #297 on: January 17, 2009, 06:16:48 pm »
i dont know why everyones pushing the panic button, at the beggining of december if united won all their games in hand on us they`d be a point behind us, now they have played their games in hand and they are a point ahead, hardly catastrophic.
they were always going to close the gap once they played their games in hand.
make no mistake, united winning so many games late on and 1-0 proves this league is tougher, years ago united rolled teams over 2,3,4 nil comfortably, week in week out.
they are winning but they are struggling too, no one can do that all season.
this league wont be decided at old trafford, there`s too many potential banana skins for both teams to overcome before the season ends.
there`s plenty of twists and turns before this title race is over.

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #298 on: January 17, 2009, 06:19:49 pm »
just be greatful were in the race i say. I stll believe with this group of players we are slightly overachieving. there doing well in my book, and rafa takes the credit for that.
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Offline tomtom

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #299 on: January 17, 2009, 06:23:10 pm »
So let me get this straight, because United and Chelsea won there games in the dieing seconds Rafa is a shit manager?

If United and Chelsea had both won 5 nil what would you have said?

Give the guy a break for fucks sake, your embarrasing yourselfs. Your a fickle bunch of pricks, you really are, goodnight.

Offline Guz-kop

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #300 on: January 17, 2009, 06:26:30 pm »
I stll believe with this group of players we are slightly overachieving. there doing well in my book,

I agree. While I agree in some of the misgivings about some of our tactics in certain games this season, I don't think we've been good enough by and large and for a squad where there are many gaps in I think we're doing pretty well.
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Offline BCCC

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #301 on: January 17, 2009, 06:27:09 pm »
I just hope and prey that I'm never sat next to some of you depressing fuckers at a game.
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Offline MagicB8all

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #302 on: January 17, 2009, 06:27:44 pm »
I  know its been nearly 2 decades but you guys really need to chill - the fact this thread had gone ballistic since man u went top says something. It says the fans do not have a winners mentality. It says the fans don't believe in their team.  Well as I've said earlier so far the difference between us and man u is the thickness of a goal post. All this is, is a warning we have plenty of time to win the league and have a chip butty ;)

Even winning games can look lost half way through - now we've been warned I expect us to take the game to the rest of the league for the remainder of the season
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

Offline Fruity

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #303 on: January 17, 2009, 06:28:35 pm »
Just stop. Weve had our chances and blew it. We've got to hope for more because Benitez style doesnt lend itself to what we need.

we haven't blown anything yet though. We are still in it. No one believes we will win every remaining game this season but no one believes united will either. We could be further ahead but so could chelsea and united if they hadnt dropped points. Swings and roundabouts.

We are in the race and we need to start believing we can do it. I am sure united fans are not sitting there moaning about their dropped points. They are top of the league and we could be back there on monday night. We have got to start believing we can do it

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Offline Vladi Legend

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #304 on: January 17, 2009, 06:29:01 pm »
So let me get this straight, because United and Chelsea won there games in the dieing seconds Rafa is a shit manager?

If United and Chelsea had both won 5 nil what would you have said?

Give the guy a break for fucks sake, your embarrasing yourselfs. Your a fickle bunch of pricks, you really are, goodnight.


No one's saying Rafa's a shit manager, at least I'm not, he's assembled a great team and we're very difficult to beat so he's done the hard part he just needs to take a risk or two sometimes which is the easy bit really but his reluctance can be so frustrating at times.
Ya we have been talking in the half time, we need to do something, we need to change things and maybe if we score then it will be different and we scored and it was different.  - Rafael Benitez Ataturk Stadium Istanbul 26 May 2005

Offline Eeyore

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #305 on: January 17, 2009, 06:29:41 pm »
Out of those three examples we really only went for it against Stoke. We didn't do enough imo to win the Villa and Arsenal games and especially against 10 men of Arsenal. We should have gone for the throat in those two games but that's the major difference between Rafa's attitude and Fergie's attitude.
Against Arsenal we were playing great, our best football against Arsenal away in years. They went down to 10 men the crowd got fired up they started keeping the ball better. We still created 2 golden chances at the end and should of won it.

Out of those 3 games Torres played about 30 out of the 270 minutes that's the key.
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Offline sattapaartridge

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #306 on: January 17, 2009, 06:36:59 pm »
i dont know why we have a Rafa Benitez development thread, because considering we've come 3rd/4th for the last 4 years, finishing a close 2nd is major development. but finishing 1st is ahead of schedule and great for everyone because manchester united are well and truly gaining on us.
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #307 on: January 17, 2009, 06:42:59 pm »
No one's saying Rafa's a shit manager, at least I'm not, he's assembled a great team and we're very difficult to beat so he's done the hard part he just needs to take a risk or two sometimes which is the easy bit really but his reluctance can be so frustrating at times.

No it isn't the easy bit. Converting 0-0s to 1-0s is difficult, it's not easy considering there has been a lack of guile/creativity in the side for a long time. I don't think the squad is as good as some people make out and I'm more worried about the sort of players we've assembled after 5 years (which are by and large VERY good since we're still only a point behind) rather than throwing men forward in the last 10minutes. The stoke game last week aside I can't remember any goalless draw in the last 12 months where I think we've not taken enough risks. Generally I think we've played quite shit (stoke, fulham, west ham home) or been a little unlucky (Hull). It happens too often for it to be a coincidence or (as this thread suggests) something that can be rectified with a small tweak here or there. Our football is still evolving and we're still on the development curve. At the start of the season I didn't expect us to be anywhere near the end of that, I don't understand why people do mid-season. This was always going to be a frustrating season (whether we win the league/CL or not) because I think firstly we all knew deep down there are still issues to be resolved in the squad and that we're so close but the mancs are closer to us.
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Offline Dick Emery

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #308 on: January 17, 2009, 06:47:27 pm »
Our manager is more cautious than Ferguson. I think this is a fact. We've seen enough examples this season of only 2 defensive midfielders on the pitch with their thumb up their arses as we are chasing a win. And with a forward sat on the bench watching.

If we go all out to win it and fail then we'll feel better than finishing 2nd or 3rd and thinking "maybe we could've gone for some games". We lost fewer games than Man United last season but what good did that do us?

Offline BazC

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #309 on: January 17, 2009, 06:52:13 pm »
It's a point I've been thinking about for a good few weeks- and I think I said it on here the other day as well; that I'd have rather us lost a couple more games and won a few more... as these results were the reason we didn't challenge last season when we should have (I think we lost 3-4 games last season- less than the Mancs and same as Chelsea I think. Arsenal lost the less I think?)

The performances, in general, haven't been great this season either really- but I've put that down to Torres being out for so long and that awkward period at the start when Gerrard was severely off form and Keane was just woeful.

We've certainly looked like we can play league winning football but it's been very much stop start and spluttering. We can demolish Newcastle and Bolton by some amazing free attacking possession football, beat Man Utd and Chelsea with a complete and fierce tactical discipline, yet find ourselves drawing against relegation fodder. It's these games that perhaps Rafa needs to think less tactical and appreciate the English game more- these relegation battling teams will be all fight, passion and direct football- no use trying to go overly tactical on these lot- perhaps sticking Hyypia on instead of Agger/Skrtel to take care of the long balls is fair, but to overly analyse their game? Nah... let them worry about us and just overwhelm them with the quality we have. We look very average against these teams, and indeed, at times, they look on par with us. Against Stoke we barely had a sniff of goal and didn't deserve to win- we lost points and they outwitted us completely. We've seen it several times this season... and yet, we look every inch the PL winning side for this season when playing other top teams and those who aren't top teams but try and play more open football (hence the Newcastle and Bolton wins).

I think though, that Rafa needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. I don't always like the way he doesn't go for the kill or takes a few more risks (I think we should have gone for the win against Arsenal when they went a man down, and of course these shite 0-0 draws), but I think if he did do that, he wouldn't be Rafa.

What I mean by that is, is that Rafa's got a set philosophy of football- how he wants his team to play and to go about winning games. He's not going to change that in my opinion and that's fair enough. The last couple of seasons we've had the squad to challenge for the title. I don't see much difference from this season to last except that the Mancs and Chelsea have lost points as well as we have from those draws. It's put us there or there abouts in the opening phase of the PL. Last season, we were immense in the 2nd half of the campaign. We do that again this season and we're there in May.

I've still got the confidence that we're going to do it.
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Offline BCCC

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #310 on: January 17, 2009, 06:58:08 pm »
Some good points there BazC.
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Offline The_Last_Don

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #311 on: January 17, 2009, 07:04:45 pm »
I think the majority of fans would accepts some of the draws, the problem has been the level of urgency within the 90 mins, today we saw the Mancs and Chelsea relentless in their persuit to win, players were moving fluidly, passing was sharp every player wanted the ball and wanted to move it on quickly.

LFC recently have really slowed the pace of the game allowing opponents like stoke and co. to re-organise enough to block any potential holes.

I want to see a bit more fight, fergie talked about the bottle, the more i think about it the more i think its the bottle to take a few risks that is needed to win a game, playing it safe and hoping a peice of play will go our way will not be enough in my mind, now more than ever we have to take the game to opponents and not turn it into a tactical battle that make our players go through the motoions of what they have to do rather than letting their own abilities take over.

Offline MagicB8all

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #312 on: January 17, 2009, 07:04:57 pm »
It's a point I've been thinking about for a good few weeks- and I think I said it on here the other day as well; that I'd have rather us lost a couple more games and won a few more... as these results were the reason we didn't challenge last season when we should have (I think we lost 3-4 games last season- less than the Mancs and same as Chelsea I think. Arsenal lost the less I think?)

The performances, in general, haven't been great this season either really- but I've put that down to Torres being out for so long and that awkward period at the start when Gerrard was severely off form and Keane was just woeful.

We've certainly looked like we can play league winning football but it's been very much stop start and spluttering. We can demolish Newcastle and Bolton by some amazing free attacking possession football, beat Man Utd and Chelsea with a complete and fierce tactical discipline, yet find ourselves drawing against relegation fodder. It's these games that perhaps Rafa needs to think less tactical and appreciate the English game more- these relegation battling teams will be all fight, passion and direct football- no use trying to go overly tactical on these lot- perhaps sticking Hyypia on instead of Agger/Skrtel to take care of the long balls is fair, but to overly analyse their game? Nah... let them worry about us and just overwhelm them with the quality we have. We look very average against these teams, and indeed, at times, they look on par with us. Against Stoke we barely had a sniff of goal and didn't deserve to win- we lost points and they outwitted us completely. We've seen it several times this season... and yet, we look every inch the PL winning side for this season when playing other top teams and those who aren't top teams but try and play more open football (hence the Newcastle and Bolton wins).

I think though, that Rafa needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. I don't always like the way he doesn't go for the kill or takes a few more risks (I think we should have gone for the win against Arsenal when they went a man down, and of course these shite 0-0 draws), but I think if he did do that, he wouldn't be Rafa.

What I mean by that is, is that Rafa's got a set philosophy of football- how he wants his team to play and to go about winning games. He's not going to change that in my opinion and that's fair enough. The last couple of seasons we've had the squad to challenge for the title. I don't see much difference from this season to last except that the Mancs and Chelsea have lost points as well as we have from those draws. It's put us there or there abouts in the opening phase of the PL. Last season, we were immense in the 2nd half of the campaign. We do that again this season and we're there in May.

I've still got the confidence that we're going to do it.

It's in the players hands, the fans role in this is to believe and encourage the players - sadly some of the fans on here are still suffering from a losers mentality and want to give in at the half way mark.  If Keane and Torres catch a fire we can easily do this
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #313 on: January 17, 2009, 07:05:08 pm »
I don't see much difference from this season to last except that the Mancs and Chelsea have lost points as well as we have from those draws.
I've been saying that as well. We hadn't really set the world alight this season,it's the mancs and chelsea(arse too) who are underachieving.We have won roughly the same amount of points as last year.
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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #314 on: January 17, 2009, 07:12:40 pm »
I personally think the manager is quite cautious. But sometimes the players have to step up and change the game themselves. Im sure Benitez is not silly enough to punish players if they be a bit free spirited and win the game. Sometimes the players themselves have to change the course of the game when they are on the pitch if its not working.

This happens in alot of teams. Just because players are given the instructions before the match, doesnt mean that later on they cannot themselves initiate more risks. What, does Benitez have to hold their hand or something. I very much doubt Benitez has had a go at Gerrard abandoning his position.

The problem in our team however is I dont think there are enough players who take on this responsibility. Gerrard does. Torres does. Alonso does. Even Babel does. However, the likes of Riera, Kuyt, Benayoun, Keane etc etc are all too happy to pass the buck onto the 3/4 mentioned.

I think its these players that will have more of an influence. The likes of Riera and Kuyt have to step up because we cant just rely on the same players winning the game. They are the ones that need to go a bit gung ho and take some risks. You cant be doing a 'Dirk Kuyt' impression of chasing and just running the ball to Gerrard and standing still for the whole match!

Offline LF

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #315 on: January 17, 2009, 07:28:32 pm »
It's important to win, but more important not to lose. ok.

how about had we gone for the 3 points against stoke, conceding on a counter and losing. that's the common argument. well then currently we'd be  2 behind man utd.

how about had we gone for the 3 points against stoke, scored the winning goal. we'd still be on top with a 1 point lead.  you got to take these types of risk's If you want to win the league title. had we lost, we could always have a chance to get the lead back at old trafford. what's 2 points behind compared to  1 point behind. nothing at this stage. a win would have meant we would have still stayed on top, still in the driving seat.

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #316 on: January 17, 2009, 07:45:30 pm »
Quote
I think though, that Rafa needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. I don't always like the way he doesn't go for the kill or takes a few more risks (I think we should have gone for the win against Arsenal when they went a man down, and of course these shite 0-0 draws), but I think if he did do that, he wouldn't be Rafa

What makes you think we didn't go for the win at Arsenal? Our football after the sending off was a bit pathetic really and I think the crowd really got to us. As soon as the red card was shown I saw Robbie Keane and a couple of the lads make a few hand gestures to get the other lads going. I highly doubt Sammy Lee relayed a message to them to calm it down and sit back on the point. We didn't keep the ball very well, used it poorly in midfield and didn't do anything with it of note upfront. I thought we looked too rushed, too desperate to get the ball up the field and our widemen ran out of ideas except Insua from LB. There was some decent posession before the sending off but without much penetration really. Our best football was a 10 minute spell after Robbie's goal. I don't think we didn't go for it, I think we were just shit. As yet I don't think we're capable of converting a lot of these draws into wins.

I know everytime someone mentions the skill of our individual players sarcy comments about soccer am and showboating comes around but I still maintain the relative footballing 'skill', simply doing things with the ball at your feet and making intelligent runs in the final third are lacking compared to Man United and Chelsea before this season. We still only have two players who seem capable of regularly taking responsibility when the chips are down - our matchwinners in Gerrard and Torres. And at the moment there's only one full back I have total faith in at the moment (Arbeloa) and even then I wonder about his role in the side, long term.
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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #317 on: January 17, 2009, 07:51:44 pm »
There's nothing lucky about it. Okay, you get the odd bit of luck. You also get decisions going your way. But that's how you win titles.

Ask anyone who remembers the great years, we done the same thing all the time.

It's there's to lose. We have to win it. We won't be getting any gifts

Is correct.

United have now won seven games 1-0, we have drawn five 0-0. From those 5 games United picked up 15 points and we picked up just 5. Doesn't that make the point ? Both teams struggled in all of those games to win and yet they did whereas we didn't. Its pretty simple really. We really have to be prepared to change the approach from now when we are drawing and time is running out. Draws are no use to use here on in and we can't afford to drop any more points at home as United will go from strength to strength from now on and we have to match them otherwise they will dissapear over the horizon and the title with them.
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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #318 on: January 17, 2009, 07:52:48 pm »
We're well matched with Chelsea and Man U - to get an edge though we're gonna need Babel and/or Reira to come good - should be  a tasty run in
Goodbye & thank you Rafa. You've given us more than we ever had a right to expect from you and you stayed loyal and fought for us even when some of our own turned on you. I truly hope that you find somewhere with the support that you deserve & win everything in sight.

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Re: It's important to win... but more important not to lose.
« Reply #319 on: January 17, 2009, 07:56:51 pm »
It's important to win, but more important not to lose. ok.

how about had we gone for the 3 points against stoke, conceding on a counter and losing. that's the common argument. well then currently we'd be  2 behind man utd.

how about had we gone for the 3 points against stoke, scored the winning goal. we'd still be on top with a 1 point lead.  you got to take these types of risk's If you want to win the league title. had we lost, we could always have a chance to get the lead back at old trafford. what's 2 points behind compared to  1 point behind. nothing at this stage. a win would have meant we would have still stayed on top, still in the driving seat.

The point is, that you take all these games like West Ham, the 2 Stoke games etc that we drew, and take the risk. We've got bags of talent- yeah you might expect to lose a couple more, but you'd still win. You'd obviously take 1 win and 1 loss rather than 2 draws.

What makes you think we didn't go for the win at Arsenal? Our football after the sending off was a bit pathetic really and I think the crowd really got to us. As soon as the red card was shown I saw Robbie Keane and a couple of the lads make a few hand gestures to get the other lads going. I highly doubt Sammy Lee relayed a message to them to calm it down and sit back on the point. We didn't keep the ball very well, used it poorly in midfield and didn't do anything with it of note upfront. I thought we looked too rushed, too desperate to get the ball up the field and our widemen ran out of ideas except Insua from LB. There was some decent posession before the sending off but without much penetration really. Our best football was a 10 minute spell after Robbie's goal. I don't think we didn't go for it, I think we were just shit. As yet I don't think we're capable of converting a lot of these draws into wins.

I know everytime someone mentions the skill of our individual players sarcy comments about soccer am and showboating comes around but I still maintain the relative footballing 'skill', simply doing things with the ball at your feet and making intelligent runs in the final third are lacking compared to Man United and Chelsea before this season. We still only have two players who seem capable of regularly taking responsibility when the chips are down - our matchwinners in Gerrard and Torres. And at the moment there's only one full back I have total faith in at the moment (Arbeloa) and even then I wonder about his role in the side, long term.

That Arsenal game was frustrating- I do think we could have gone for it more, and the dynamic changed because Arsenal were, from that point, content with the point and protecting it- previously we were playing them on the counter... when they stopped attacking, we stopped being able to play on the counter.

I don't believe the crowd got to them. Players on that pitch have played in some truly mentally challenging games- way heavier than a bunch of Arsenal fans giving it the big "HOOOOFFF".

Our football was a bit too conservative, and it is conservative a lot- it comes to your point about these runs in the final third. Thing is, I don't think the players have the freedom to always make them, and by that I mean by Rafa's instruction. Torres and Gerrard are probably the only 2 players who are allowed to play on their instinct in our attack. The others will have to think about other aspects of the game- and I think it bogs them down and places certain shackles on our attack.
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